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2010-02-03 at NOON

‘Fiscally responsible’ budget

By tbnewswatch.com
103.5 The ThunderHave Breakfast with Brent each weekday morning on The Thunder, Today's Country Music Station, 103.5 & 104.5http://www.thethunder.ca
City manager Tim Commisso says administration is bringing forward a fiscally responsible 2010 budget during tough economic times.

Tuesday, Feb. 9, city council will ask residents to provide their input on this year's operating budget, which totals nearly $200 million.

For the average household that will mean an increase of 1.88 per cent or $45 if the proposed budget is approved.

Commisso said that is mainly driven by a two per cent increase in reassessment for the average household. The city manager says he's pleased with the budget.

The proposed budget includes a number of increases to user fees, including a two per cent increase on ice rentals at city-owned arenas, and a 10 per cent increase in camping fees at Chippewa and Trowbridge. Green fees at city-owned golf courses will rise by three per cent.
City transit monthly passes will also increase by $2.50.

City council will hold an informal question and answer session regarding the budget Thursday afternoon.
TbNewsWatch.com

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Tbnewswatch.com(29)

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Mark says:
1.88% huh.... Must be nice, I haven't had a 1.88% raise in a long time...how about you cut some crap OUT of the budget and reduce my taxes by 1.88%??? Now THAT would "fiscally responsible".
2010-02-06 at 16:14
tsb says:
The TTC has so many users that it recovers its costs much more effectively than Thunder Bay Transit. Toronto is dense and every bus route is well used. Thunder Bay has only two routes that come close to being as well used as anything in Toronto. The more people that use transit, the more cost efficient it is. Thunder Bay is so spread out and car oriented that public transit struggles. Until we stop spreading out the city and start densifying the urban area, we're going to have this cost problem. It's simply the result of bad planning for the past 60 years.
2010-02-06 at 14:49
panzerIV says:
Now i'm no economics professor but i do know that the less an item costs the more willing someone will be to buy it. I agree with lloyd on the first part of his statement. The gas tax could be used to keep the costs down maybe even reduce the costs. This would lead to more ridership which would give the city all the money back. Just a though, also doing away with the height restriction would provide a large tax base in a smaller area. One problem that i currently see with the city is the urban sprawl. With this sprawl we have to pave roads, new sewers, and many other costly items. If council allowed for certain area to be built up then we could put a lot of people in a smaller area and not have to spend as much from the budget building the new roads.
2010-02-05 at 22:32
Lloyd2010 says:
First: Thunder Bay Transit raising prices yet again?? With a user base in the 10 to 15 thousand Can someone explain to me how TTC in Toronto with 100 Times the ridership and users of public transit has close to the same fee pricing?
Here's an idea... Rather than put the screws to the users why not take some of that millions of cash Transit received from the gas tax and offset user fees?? Oh wait that would lighten somebody's wallet so we can't have that.
Southside Transit woes..
Simple Solution:
Use the tax payer built City Hall as the intermn terminal.
City buses could be staggered in arrvail times so as to not impact local street useage and This would give Tax payers a first hand chance to see what they paid for.
As well it would allow Transit users a SAFE HEATED area to wait for their bus with WASHROOM facilities available..
Problem solved... Woud City Council go for this?? Not on your life...
2010-02-04 at 6:00 PM
chezhank says:
Steve
I see you agree to disagree....!
No one is irreplaceable!
2010-02-04 at 17:25
thebard says:
It's not their work ethic "She said"..... it is the number of them for a city of this size.
2010-02-04 at 17:06
Steven says:
Yeah, city workers pay taxes, which are also high for them...... but they are just one family in many 10's of thousands, while they get the benefit of being one of a couple thousand who get all that money.

Heres an idea: I'll come cut your grass........ $500 a sq ft! Everyone in the city can pay..... but don't worry....i'm part of the city so i'm doing my part. Wouldn't that seem unfair? Well thats exactly what is going on. Everyone pays, and a very few benefit hugely to our detriment.

And to your suggest I try being a garbageman: Once again I ask, what do I have to do with this argument, She?
Whether or not I am capable of being a garbageman has nothing to do with anything. Don't you people know how to construct a basic argument?

If a construction man builds you a house, is the fact that you are not capable of doing his job a factor in whether or not you are allowed to have an opinion on his workmanship and wages?
Now that is what we call a rebuttal. Yours is what we call an insult. You might as well have called me a stinky-face.
2010-02-04 at 17:04
She says:
Why is everyone down on city workers for. Sure some are lazy while others such as garbagemen have broken bodies due too overworking. I'd like to see joe blow (steve)off the street try that job for a day.Probably couldn't handle it. Oh and bye the way, city workers also pay taxes.
2010-02-04 at 16:45
Steven says:
Agreed Chezhank!

Everyone needs to take reductions to make things work around here fiscally.

UNLESS: Unless that person is likely to leave for greener pastures, as discussed below. That still means 99.5% of workers should either take pay cuts or not expect even a cost of living increase for some time.

I know that 0.5% is the people you think deserve the biggest cuts, but we need to deal with reality, not blind cuts, and with cuts to those employees salaries, we are in great danger of losing them.
2010-02-04 at 16:42
chezhank says:
Steven.
The leaders I admire are those that lead by example,not those on the way to the public trough!
Time to tighten the strings on the public purse for all public employees,college president or sanitary engineer.
Picture of Che working the Havana docks!
Tbnewswatch.com

2010-02-04 at 15:16
bigdog says:
I guess the city wants out of the Golf business.

Adult Full Membership with tax in 2010 = $1,319.00
Adult Full in 2011 cost with HST and another 3% increase = $1,462.00

No longer affordable for most folks unless you are a city employee. They get a big discount on fees.
2010-02-04 at 15:16
canuckman55 says:
A couple things... First off, our transit fare is almost the same as Toronto, but Toronto has far better service per capita. And our city run golf courses are terrible. I would rather pay 25% less and golf at dragon hills or emerald greens. They are not only cheaper, but are usually in far better shape. We should just sell the courses and be done with them. Let a private investor run them properly.

It sounds like there are going to be some new faces running for council this year. Might be time for new blood at the helm.
2010-02-04 at 13:43
oldnorthernguy says:
THE CITY MORTGAGE THAT CAN NEVER BE PAID OFF.

The city tax bill on a $ 150,000 house next year will be about equal to trying to pay for a mortgage of about $75,000 ( Seventy-Five Thousand Dollars) forever.

On this house, about $7,000 of your income (before income-tax) will be used up trying to feed the more than 3,000 city workers who take more than 80% of your tax dollar home with them.



2010-02-04 at 13:35
chezhank says:
The demograhics in that survey show that 66% of those surveyed paid average and below average taxes,making the survey a little biased.
Only 23% who paid above the average were surveyed.The other 10%didn't pay or know!
2010-02-04 at 13:19
tbayg says:
In light of all the people being down about what is going on in our town, this video and song should make you fall in love with the city once again, proud to be a "Thunder Baydian"



Watch it right now!
2010-02-04 at 13:13
Steven says:
Thats apples to oranges Chezhank, but good try.

Your average city employee can't compare to a college prez, because unlike that president they won't pick up and leave for greener pastures. A secretary, garbage man, or average backroom worker will not pick up and leave to go to a better paying secretary garbage man or backroom job in southern ontario, even if they existed. It is simply an issue of job mobility: The cost of moving, buying a more expensive house down there etc. would not be worth it even if there was a large pay descrepancy.

On the other hand, highly skilled specialized people like a college president who have very rare experience and skills WILL pick up and go to another college if the money is that far apart.....OR they will go to some other form of large institution. You must pay these people more because you are in direct competition with other institutions and will lose these people if you don't keep up.

Its an issue of labour markets. For low level employees, your market is local. You compete with local businesses and thats about it. For very high level employees, you are competing at least provincially, if not Nationally and Internationally depending on the position.
2010-02-04 at 13:04
thebard says:
THE REAL TAX HIKE.

It may be a 1.9% increase on paper but it will be closer to 5% to you.

The reason is that the province has determined that your properties have all gone up in value. You pay taxes on a % of the assessed value.

So the city will look responsible, with only a 1.9% but they know full well the cash from you will be much more.

80% of your city tax bill (not counting the education portion) goes to pay the salaries of city workers.





2010-02-04 at 13:00
RHL says:
"Our Citizen Survey, conducted every two years, gathers citizen’s views on services and issues. This (past)September we found out that residents expressed a high satisfaction with municipal services and that they felt they were getting good value for their tax dollars"...
But there is no JOY in Ditchville. What went wrong in such a short period of time?
2010-02-04 at 11:21
chezhank says:
Hate to tell you Steve,but......you know how thw rest goes!
"Steven says:
Hate to tell you chezhank, but thats what college presidents earn for facilities of this size. Look around the country.

You can bet if college staff looked to other colleges and found out their counterparts there were earning 10% more they would complain."
2010-02-04 at 11:15
Steven says:
I'm all for people getting paid what they are worth, based on the cost of living in an area.

So here in Thunder Bay where housing (easily the biggest cost the majority of people will have in their lives) is about half that as southern Ontario, we should have wages for our municipal employees to match.

So even though the unions would have you believe they need as much as Toronto union members doing the same jobs, it is simply wrong.

A garbage collector here should be earning at least 50% less than someone in southern ontario. That 3 bedroom house the garbage collector is paying for here only cost $170000, but in southern ontario it was $450000+.

Thoughts?

Its time to roll back the salaries! Our taxes are so much higher than southern ontario, and we get nothing for them. Guess where it all goes?
2010-02-04 at 10:10
OMG!! says:
OMGOMGOMGOM!! I'm going to have to SELL MY CHILDREN!!!
2010-02-04 at 08:22
Jaded says:
More reasons to be grateful, and excited, about leaving Thunder Bay, and Ontario altogether. Shame, I used to love this city. Out of all the places I've lived, this is the only place that ever felt like home. And now, between the skyrocketing unemployment rate, our ridiculous city council, the HST, the ever increasing crime rate that our police chief won't even admit let alone address, and now this ... I can't wait to go.
2010-02-04 at 02:23
The Beaver.... says:
OK folks..take a look at the Sunshine List for the City...then you will know were the money goes,and then You Will get mad i am sure.
2010-02-04 at MIDNIGHT
captain says:
hey urkiddingme, i have to agree. I think it is long past time to have a full overview of each departments operation. I think some areas need to go up, with inflation and input costs but most can reduce costs. But attrition can certainly help in lowering costs and a complete wage freeze, from top to the next 80%. city, province, FEDS, everyone. I don't have a problem with the bottome 20 percent getting a little. Freeze the top 80 for one year. just do it. the only i would not support this, is because this council would likely take the money and put it toward a different project and spend it instead of saving it. they have been on a spending spree. if we can guarantee the saving would be put in the bank for a needed infrastructure project like water treatment, then I think a freeze for one year can help. and before everyone yells at me, I work for the feds so it would mean no raise for me. think of what the money would save in ottawa and toronto. if 3% on 60,000 is the difference between living and not being able to pay your bills, there are bigger problems.
2010-02-03 at 22:39
YQTYQT says:
Yes everything will be going up, but I'm happy that CAO Commisso says that he is being fiscally responsible. In his mind anyway. Tax increases are only one part of the equation. The other parts are how much is spending going up, how much more are they sucking out of the utilities to balance the budget, how much more debt will this budget involve to keep tax rates at a minimum and what service and staff level cuts did they consider. Maybe its time for a "Rae Days" to be considered again. I've never been an advocate of line item reviews, but if there were one, I'm sure the fat would be trimmed in no time.
2010-02-03 at 22:34
InTheBay says:
So my taxes are going up (1.88%), my water bills are going up, and with the new HST everything else will be going up. Looks like 2010 is going to be a banner year. Brutal. I don't understand what we receive for all our taxes. It seems like we pay for a lot but receive very little.
2010-02-03 at 6:00 PM
panzerIV says:
I am currently very luck, i get to ride the bus to the airport for free because of a pass provided by my school. I need to get to the airport everyday to attend class and need to ride the bus to get home. I spend 3 hours on the bus getting home and to the airport. I think that this is ridiculous, why does it take 3 hours!. The transit system needs to be upgraded so that citizen and tourists don't take there whole day getting to a place. Not only do you have to deal with the long ride, dealing with all the drunk people and the feeling of insecurity is also pathetic. It was 1 pm when i stopped at water street terminal and a guy that was obviously drunk was asking people for money and cigarettes; at 1 pm! It costs 2.50 a ride on the bus that's .50 cents less then Toronto. At least in Toronto you can get where ever you want in like 25 minutes. Come on transit get your act together and provide a better service for the city.
2010-02-03 at 15:36
She says:
Why don't you leave transit users alone.It costs 5.00 there and back, already.With all the stupid things this city spends money on I'm starting to think it should be free to catch the city bus.
2010-02-03 at 13:27
Ur Kiddingme says:
Tough Economic Times Oh my God this is probably the first time anyone has ever heard that> "fiscally responsible" Thank god for that. It is time to stop the rhetoric and b.s. Let's get serious about how much can be taken from the taxpayers pocket in the nam eof infastructure, community goodness, and all the other cr#p we've been handed. I think each dpartment should be made to prove each and every cent they require. Yes I said they should be made to prove it. Enough with "You've done a wonderful job" showing up today etc. Let's start with We pay you for a reason, now it's time to roll up your sleeves and earn your money. Politically incorrect - Yes Finacilly responsible you decide with your vote this fall.
2010-02-03 at NOON
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