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2010-09-29 at 14:45

World-renowned expert says proactive approach to crime fighting needed

By Leith Dunick,
91.5 CKPRWin Lunch with Danny and Laura for up to 20 people! Enter here to win on Thunder Bays Best Music 91.5 CKPRClick Here!
Attacking the causes of crime is the only way to prevent it from spiralling out of control, says a world-renowned expert on the subject.

By doing so, cities can expect to reduce crime rates by at least 50 per cent in 10 years, a realistic goal for a community the size of Thunder Bay, said University of Ottawa criminology professor Irvin Waller, the author of Less Law, More Order: The Truth About Reducing Crime.

"You cannot solve the problems of drugs and violent crime if you only use the reactive system," Waller told a breakfast gathering Wednesday morning, as Thunder Bay officially launched its much-anticipated Crime Prevention Council.

"These do not work."

Waller said instead of dumping money into providing more police officers on the street, tackling social issues like drug and alcohol abuse, providing parenting programs to stabilize families, encouraging teens to stay in school, anger management and anti-bullying programs and bringing social agencies together with government and the legal system are more effective crime prevention tools.

Once the crime prevention council is in place, Waller recommended an audit that will present an overview of where crime is taking place, who is committing the crimes, when it’s happening and provide the base to understand where best to direct resources.

Though unfamiliar with Thunder Bay specifically, Waller said there are some generalities that tend to prove true across the board, including the fact that on average five per cent of a city’s youth usually account for 55 per cent of its crime.

"Crime is incredibly concentrated," he said. "We also know that victims are incredibly concentrated. About four to five per cent of addresses account for 40 to 50 per cent of crime."

Waller said municipalities must tap into federal and provincial funding to help pay for the programs, cautioning that they can’t be paid for off the backs of local taxpayers.

Thunder Bay Police Insp. Andy Hay said crime is a definite problem in Thunder Bay, and it’s no secret that early preventive measures are the answer.

"It’s not enforcement, it’s not more police officers, it’s not more arrests. It’s what goes on long before the arrest stage. We need to prevent the crime from happening, as opposed to just responding to it. We can respond to it all we want. But until we get at the root causes of the crime, it’s going to keep occurring."
Mayoral candidate Keith Hobbs said it’s taken the city far too long to realize that, and called on Mayor Lynn Peterson to apologize to the city for failing to act on the problem.

Hobbs, a former president of the Thunder Bay Police Association, said he’s looking forward to working on the issue.

"Dr. Waller spoke of the possibility of reducing crime by 50 per cent in 10 years. He’s telling us that we could have reduced crime in this city 50 per cent in 10 years. That is an indictment against the mayor. We have not done this program, we’re too late. But we need to get on with it right now," Hobbs said.

Peterson, who said a minimum 50 per cent reduction in crime by 2020 is attainable, said the crime prevention council is a necessary step, and the right one, having been patterned after a similar, successful program in Waterloo, Ont.

She added Hobbs is completely off base in his thoughts, that the city’s police force has begun alternative programs, including foot patrols, and that taxpayers support plenty of social programs and organizations.

"We also, in terms of assisting some of those without other means, we put $22 million into things like Ontario Works every year," Peterson said. "We have recreation and parks programs and certainly we recognize that the youth in this community need to be supported."

Frank Pullia, the third of six mayoral candidates – the other three were not in attendance – said he agrees that crime prevention at an early stage is the right way to go.

"It’s one thing to treat the problem. It’s like putting a Band-Aid on a cancer. We need to go to the source and treat it, and that’s the best, most effective way to treat crime," Pullia said.

Nishnawbe Aski Nation Grand Chief Stan Beardy said his people will do their part to keep crime rates down, acknowledging that First Nations people arriving in Thunder Bay are part of the problem.

"We are prepared to take responsibility for ourselves," Beardy said. "I think what’s important here … is that we are prepared to work with the council to create outreach programs that are effective to assist First Nations people from the Far North to (adapt) to a different cultural setting."

Crime Prevention Council members will be recruited over the coming months, with a program co-ordinator expected to be in place within a couple of weeks. The council is expected to hold its first meeting in mid-December.

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chezhank says:
If this city is serious about this program,scrap the court house we will not need will also solve the parking problem!
But as Dr.Waller states the "investments in the reactive system (cops,courts and corrections) are huge".....and they will not share their power.
This was posted under the story “Solving Crime”

Almost 25% of our property tax dollars now are spent by police.
Reduce the police budget and spend it on social programs to reduce crime.
For example fund the Underground Gym which will be asking for funding Monday to continue operating.
2010-09-24 at 17:37

9/29/2010 3:31:41 PM
TBDR says:
Lynn has the nerve to say Hobbs is off base? He proposed a million dollars in savings for the force, while adding to foot patrols and having more officers on the street all at the same time. He said they could put focus on more proactive policing while also increasing the number of officers on the street! Two birds with one stone! And he probably doesn't even have a university degree! While I respect Mr. Waller's credentials he didn't tell us anything that Hobbs didn't already say a year ago!
9/29/2010 3:59:21 PM
Jason Susin says:
Pride Projects targeted at youth coming to Thunder Bay for school are also crucial. Giving new members to the community a chance to participate in clean ups and other beautification projects are key by sharing in the development of community spirit. Fact is everyone thinks twice about littering if they participated and volunteered in a clean up effort. It's cool, healthy, and a fun way to socialize. check out Everyone is welcome to come join us Saturday, October 16 · 1:00pm - 4:00pm Staging area is Days Inn parking lot behind Montana's.

My main point is if you love and respect your community, you are less likely to commit a crime against it, whether it be vandalism, or violence.
9/29/2010 4:05:09 PM
canuckman55 says:
Well at least Lynn and company are consistent. They haven't instituted reactive or proactive crime fighting!
9/29/2010 4:22:29 PM
crazylady says:
Well there has been alot of talking, some good ideas, some not so good. I see alot of people talking on these issues and talk is good. But, when are we going to do the walk? How long do we have to wait to implement these programs and the Crime council to do their study and get their info and make more recommendations? Living in the south core, I would like to see something happen instead of more talking and blameing. I guess we will have to wait for more deaths, assualts and muggings, to add more stats to the info.
9/29/2010 4:25:16 PM
One Mans Opinion says:
The only way to lower the crime rate is to put people to work at good paying jobs. Since the decline in the jobs, which were specific to the lower educated person (high school) the crime rate has increased. Not all indivivduals can or will be professionals however they shouldn't have to live below or just above the poverty level. This is were the crimes will begin. If a person wants it and can't afford it they will take it. This is a fact of life. As is also said, "Busy hands are happy hand and idol hands are the devils work shop". Minimum wage jobs will not cut it.
9/29/2010 4:45:58 PM
baor says:
Mr Waller is likely a bit optimistic on a 50% reduction in crime in 10yrs as these programs and their results take a generation to become ingrained into society (simply my opinion), but I guess optimism is what this city needs when it comes to crime.
I do believe that much of what he has said Mr Hobbs has himself stated starting last year to deaf ears and recently during his official campaign.
I would like to thank Mr Beardy, (more than Mr Waller or Ms Peterson) for recognizing an issue that Natives are partly responsible for in this city. Lets see who acts on this issue and who does not.
9/29/2010 5:07:06 PM
beached says:
One Mans Opinion: If jobs where the answer then communities like Fort McMurray would be a paradise.
9/29/2010 5:26:27 PM
molly says:
Peterson wants to hire a "Crime Czar" according to CBQ radio. Well I thought we have a Police administration to perform that function.
I have been to Waterloo Ontario( where we are basing our crime committee on) . I see no resemblense to Thunder Bay.
Our problems are somewhat unique to N.W.O. and do not reflect what goes on in Southern Ontario.
Once again our Mayor is relying on outside "experts" to deal with a Thunder Bay problem. An academic approach to crime fighting, might be nice from the comfort of a lecture theater, but does not cut it on the street.

What is this going to cost taxpayers now ?

How about a home grown solution for a change.
Well I guess we can get that with our vote on Oct 25th
9/29/2010 6:35:38 PM
ohno says:
baor, certain people like Mr Beardy can make comments like that without facing repercussions.. Could you imagine if Ms Peterson had come out and stated that?

9/29/2010 6:41:29 PM
tsb says:
It is unfortunate that when the city council finally brings about a plan to reduce crime (and this plan is just over a year in the making), people attack them. However, seeing how Hobbs seems to support their efforts, I think I will support him. Lynn Peterson might have started the programme at the last minute but Hobbs is the man to take the baton and run with it.
9/29/2010 7:27:53 PM
mvp's ballin says:
the lynn peterson crime prevention model of sweep everything under the rug has failed miserably . she not only owes this city an apology but she should do the honorable thing and hand in her resignation as mayor and also pull out of the mayors race. 7 years of peterson as mayor = 7 years of futility for the city of thunder bay!

9/29/2010 7:57:33 PM
bonrack says:
"We also, in terms of assisting some of those without other means, we put $22 million into things like Ontario Works every year," Peterson said.


How much of that comes from the municipal tax base? Hobbs for Mayor !! and she should apologize AND withdraw her name.
9/29/2010 9:18:37 PM
northfirst says:
okay, wonderful to read the comments of those that seem to form their opinions from 30 sec sound bites and sarcasm. I was at the event this morning to hear dr. waller first hand and hear the questions from the audience, understand the talk will be available on the web so suggest you all take a look once it is. what you will see is dr. waller saying we need to have a plan based on evidence, evidence and evidence. he said more boots on the street is not what is needed, but that's hobb's solution. frankly Hobb's assertion that this city is in crises was almost embarassing. talk about throwing oil on a fire to accomplish nothing but smoke. to suggest the mayor owes the community an apology might make a nice sound bite but its meaningless. if hobb's knows so much about crime prevention theories what was he doing for the 34 yrs he was a cop? his answer to crime prevention is just what dr. waller said will accomplish little or nothing. i'm afraid hobb's hasn't done anything to demostrate he has any ability to lead this city, claiming to have a vision isn't the same as describing one - 3 or 4 bullets on an election sign doesn't move my vote.
9/29/2010 9:39:58 PM
captain says:
Bang on northfist. you tell them.

what does that hobbs guy know.

I mean over a decade ago he was talking about the high rates of alcohol and drug abuse. What a fool.

Six years ago he was talking about the high crime rates and the low number of officers on the street. The dolt.

Last year he spoke about the levels of violence in the city and the lack of officers on the street. Just stupid.

And what term did Hobbs use last year to describe PART of his plan, putting more boots on the street. Isn't it funny that this man from out of town used the EXACT SAME TERM AT AN EVENT ORGANIZED BY THIS MAYOR.

Must be just a coincidence. I mean he probably wasn't briefed about Hobbs at all, RIGHT?

Did you see the computer feed of Dr. Wallers presentation, the very first slide said

"making a safe community safer".

His own statements say he is not familiar with Thunder Bay. That very first slide of a canned presentation confirms that.

Thunder Bay safe, yeah right.

Although I did enjoy the plugs Dr. Waller put in about his book. You always love knowing that when you hire someone, you can go give them additional money by buying their book.

You have to give this mayor credit.

Ignore a problem for a decade while on city council. Ignore it for seven years while Mayor. Deny the problem last year and don't forget northfist, she denied crime was a problem.

Then as you realize over the summer that Hobbs is doing way way better than she ever dreamed. Realize that people are angry about the state of crime in this city, and then come up with a PLAN based on a hired outside consultant who has spent a grand total of zero minutes policing this city, and say you have a handle on crime. What chutzpah she has.

As for Hobbs and his 34 years, he tried. That's the point. No one was listening. How many victims have there been, how many break and enters, assaults, robberies, damages, serious injuries, because our leaders were so busy playing patty cake with each other, they forgot to do their job.

An apology. She and several others owe far more to us than that.

As for Hobbs claiming to have a vision and not really having one. Let's see.

He said all of the things this expert said. He said them last year, he said them a decade ago. So, by your own words Hobbs is an expert.

northfirst, there is only two possibilities.

You are either so gullible that you believe this initiative 3 weeks before an election is just a coincedence or, you are such a Lynn supporter that you will do anything to help.

Either way, your rewriting of history does not make it so.

Hobbs raised all of these issues and solutions last year. He was ignored.

Now, we need to tackle them.

Bravo Mayor. Thanks for coming to the party, finally. Only far too many people have been hurt by crime while you have been gathering your "committee".

More fluff. I just have to hope the voters see this for what it is. And I really hope the media starts asking the questions.

Like ---- Mrs. Mayor, when you denied these problems last year, what has changed that made you start this new initiative.

And Ms. Mayor, would you not agree that some of the problems that Mr. Hobbs identified last year as the same things identified by Dr. Waller.

anyone in our media brave enough to ask?????
9/29/2010 10:11:42 PM
AJ147 says:
First step in reducing crime in this city is to turf the current mayor.
9/29/2010 10:56:38 PM
ha ha says:
I did not even waste my time reading, just could not stop laughing!
9/29/2010 11:43:22 PM
Random says:
Chezhank nails it again. Reduce the police budget of approximately 30 million, and increase social spending that is already at, according to the mayor, 22 million. We already have a fire department costing 20 million or so, and they put out about 10 fires a year-no offence to firefighters, but we really don't have alot of fires here. Don't ever mention cutting their budget. What? They respond to things other then fires?? Oh, okay, wonder if the police respond to anything other then social issues, hurt feelings etc. I don't think there is any single tax payer that would not like to see the police budget drop, but until the out of control alcohol/social issues are fixed in this city, the ''boots on the ground'' everyone seems to hate is going to be required just to try and keep up. The police are ''reactionary'' because they are too busy running from call to call. I have no doubt that if the wishfull thinking of 50% crime reduction is attained, then the police budget can be adjusted accordingly. Betcha food stamps instead of a monthly cash handout would make a difference as well. Think Chezhank should try going out on a friday night ride along with police and see whats really going on out there. On second thought, that might not be such a good idea...he might develope a hate on for the firefighters instead.
9/29/2010 11:46:19 PM
abetterTbay. says:
AJ147, and Captain want you to believe:, That crime in Thunder Bay is Mayor Lynn Peterson's fault. I guess Thunder Bay must be hell on earth, (far from it). I believe they are simple minded hobbs campaigners. I want to share something with readers that will listen.
Our current council is not ignorant about crime in Thunder Bay, and we all know hobbs is not going to be a miracle worker. So, Let's vote for a proven Mayor that deals with all the issues of a city. Yes, I like Lynn Peterson.
I also believe that the hobbs campaign is poor for Thunder Bay's mentality. reading the comments of Canuckman55,TBDR, and hobbs campaign who all are more than likely hobbs own son make me think, we are in hell. Stay positive Thunder Bay, let's continue to move forward with a proven track record and deal with the social issues of a growing population. Because success comes with growing pains!

There is no doubt, Thunder Bay is on the right track.
9/30/2010 12:24:08 AM
tiredofit says:
What I find most insulting about this is the fact that the current mayor feels she now all of a sudden needs to go outside of Thunder Bay to find these "specialists" to solve problems. Has she ever looked at home? I guess she feels we don't have any qualified individuals in this town.

Jason, why is it you have to old this event in a parking lot? I fully understand your love for this city, as most do. However if you really want to support this town and the management of it, perhaps you shouldn't take sides, not a wise move, because the next mayor/councel may not appreciate everything you've said and done about the others.
One last question, does the city fund any of your activities?
9/30/2010 1:50:09 AM
Rick says:
to: captain
More boots on the street.?
We already have that according to Stats Canada, it does not seem to be working all that well now does it.
9/30/2010 8:41:45 AM
northfirst says:
Captain, well lets skip the election and move straight to sainthood for Hobbs.
I don't know what video you watched but humbly suggest you turn the volume up next time and actually listen to what dr. waller had to say. Of course no telling how each of us will interpret the same message, old game that.
To Random, I think the real issue is not that police are too reactionary - its largely what they are designed for, the whole message in the crime prevention council idea and dr. waller's talk is that its the whole community that needs to be engaged in this process. it isn't a policing issue alone,
9/30/2010 8:42:00 AM
nvjgu says:
As this story relates to the election Im not voting for any of them . It's the same people or family name running to be elected . lets get some real people in there , Ones that know what it's like to be down here on the front lines , Ones that don't know status que . I thunk the city is very clicky .
9/30/2010 8:46:52 AM
molly says:
Irwin Waller says
"Once the crime prevention council is in place, Waller recommended an audit that will present an overview of where crime is taking place, who is committing the crimes, when it’s happening and provide the base to understand where best to direct resources.

Though unfamiliar with Thunder Bay specifically, Waller said there are some generalities that tend to prove true across the board, including the fact that on average five per cent of a city’s youth usually account for 55 per cent of its crime.

So he says we need an audit to tell us where crime is happening, when it's happening and who is doing it.......and we paid for this advice.
All this is nown by the Police as reported daily in the news. The real problem is having someone to deal with it.
9/30/2010 9:14:59 AM
stargill70 says:
"Attacking the causes of crime is the only way to prevent it from spiralling out of control, says a world-renowned expert on the subject". I could have told u that for free.
9/30/2010 10:57:12 AM
worker1 says:
All this talk about crime and the need to stop it. All intentions are some what good.WE, all agree that there is a huge problem.
Police can only do so much.
I think the best way to elevate crime is to get our elected mayor and council to sit down with the judges and lawyers.They need to send a message we need stiffer jail time and fines.
Enough of this slap on the hand and don't be naughty again.
Those that choose to commit any type of crime needs to realize we the people in this city are fed up with them.
Enough of the lawyers using the term the accused comes from a dysfuntional home,thats no excuse i came from one yet i don't rob,steal assault,or murder anyone.
"You commit the crime you do the hard time."
I believe anyone committing any crime has forfeited their rights.
Victims rights are more important.
Time to start building a safer city.
9/30/2010 11:34:47 AM
rbosch says:
@Tiredofit: your response to Jason Susin shows me that you do not comprehend too well, or perhaps choose to cherrypick comments for your convenience.

Mr. Susin's group is a "grass roots level" group of people who take great pride in our city and are attempting to help out in many ways. One of those ways is the beautifiction work they are doing along the Harbour Expressway and the parking lot of the Motel is the marsalling area for the group to meet. Also, read his post and at least TRY to understand where he is coming from.

What is with the veiled threat of "perhaps you shouldn't take sides, not a wise move, because the next mayor/councel may not appreciate everything you've said and done about the others." The only person(s) that would make such a treat are those who are in opposition to the present Mayor and Council and we know who that is. Perhaps it is you who should think before putting your words on paper.
9/30/2010 11:55:54 AM
bella1979 says:
I would like to know how we can help in the community. I have a young school age child and I would like to feel that she is safe playing outside with her friends on our streets. I live in a great neighbourhood but you never know what lurks around the corner.

I know I would be willing to help out as a volunteer to get our streets safer in the community and to help educate the youth so we can feel safe in our homes and in our community.

I used to run in the early mornings and later in the evenings and as an adult I am scared and feel unsafe to be on the street alone.

This needs to change! We all need to help out...
9/30/2010 12:18:11 PM
chbaker says:
You can have a million cops on the street and that will not stop crime. We spend too much on policing as it is. (especially considering what we get for it)
Education is money better spent.

Seems to me in our current society, police don't really have an effect on crime at all except after the fact.
I should like to see less police and more education. Otherwise, we're heading to some kind of neo fascist police state..
9/30/2010 12:19:41 PM
TBDR says:
abetterTbay: i can't speak for the other two you speak of, but I am just someone who is tired of lip service from council. Am I supporting Hobbs? You bet! Do I hide it? Not a chance! But to try to discredit my opinion you just sound like Lynn, sweep the obvious problem under the rug and hope nobody notices its still there. If I were actually Hobbs' kid, I'd be pretty proud of how he is progressing as a mayoral hopeful. He has won over just about everyone in my circle of colleagues and friends and I applaud the fact that he isn't afraid to step up to the plate

rbosch: Mr. Susin's group also identified themselves as non partisan. We know however that you aren't and so your final paragraph is meaningless. I don't know why you think that those opposing the mayor would make a "treat" (assuming you meant threat). If you are referring to above mentioned mayoral candidate, it seems you are an even bigger Lynn drone than I thought. What reason would he or any other candidate have for making threats against a group like OTB... your argument makes no sense.

9/30/2010 12:31:52 PM
Jon Powers says:
To All:

If we could hold our Judges, Crown Council, Police and Service Boards accountable for their actions in court just like our American Cousins do.

Perhaps we would be a better place.

The Canadian Criminal Justice system is far too expensive to operate and has very little in accountability for those who work in it.

Our system is closed while they have an open one.

If the Government and the Courts were more open and accoutable we would at least know what is going on.

Just a thought.

Great Story!
9/30/2010 1:34:43 PM
tiredofit says:
well Rbosch, your entitle to your opinion, as am I. I personally think, and I'm sure others would agree, that if you really want to promote the city (and I commend the brothers for the job they've done), you shouldn't take sides, plain and simple. How you see my comments as a "veiled threat" is beyond me.
Also, if they are publicly funded by the city in any way shape or form, then they should make that public, if they are truely a nonprofit organziation then that information should be out in the open, it's a simple question which can be answered with a yes or a no. Pretty simple.
As for being opposed to the current councel, we'll, some I am, and some I'm not, thats my right as citizen of this country. I will exercise that right on the 25th of October as well.
9/30/2010 3:28:35 PM
Henry says:
Dear bella1979

Grow up, stop thinking of the City as some sort of divine entity that is going to make your life secure. Perhaps you didn't get the memo, there is no securtity in life! The days of expecting the government to solve all of our pathetic problems are over. OVER!
9/30/2010 8:24:14 PM
rbosch says:
Gee TBDR, I don't recall either speaking to you in my previous post, nor do I ever recall stating who I support, other than a group of citizens who are attempting to do something positive for this city. Quite frankly, it is none of your damn business who I support politically. I also know Ihave never said who I support, but I suppose you are another one of those that know all.

@tiredofit: "perhaps you shouldn't take sides, not a wise move, because the next mayor/councel may not appreciate everything you've said and done about the others" is your statement and not mine. Do not attempt to gloss it over by re-quoting yourself only partially. The full quote is pretty telling, the way I see it. You support Mr. Hobbs and apparently have inside information that would indicate that his side would not appreciate everything that you have said and done for the others, which is Mayor Peterson's side. Let's leave it at that and we will see what comes about on October 25. May the best person win.
10/1/2010 12:12:55 AM
Jon Powers says:

Your comments of support for "Oppotunity Thunder Bay" are missguided.

This group was in favour of our city going in debt of $38.5Million for its $22.Million portion of our "Great WaterFront". Not to mentiopn the $44.Million for both senior governments.

I wonder how much real crime fighting would have happended if all that money went to open youth centres and keeping open community centres to. Community Intervention Programmes, Boots on the Ground etc.

"Opportunity Thunder Bay" has raised Taxes and increased Dedt for the City of Thunder Bay.

If You have high taxes and high debt than You and I have perfect breading grounds for "Crime".

Spending all that money to support millionaires is just an exampole of their reckless interference in Thunder Bay's economy.

They even support more taxes for a "Multi-Plex"; Their list of tax payer funded projects are long and costly. Visit their Home Page.

If you believe that they are trying to make our city better you are wrong. They don't even have a plan of how to get out of our debt problems.

They want us to spend more and more taxes with very little return.

BTW I am an "Independant Voter". I don't belong to any Federal/Provincial/Municipal party.

Graet Story!

10/1/2010 9:51:31 AM
george2000 says:
When you consider sports, when the team doesn't perform, changes are made.

The Leafs have had various coaches, the Canadians etc. Last year the GM of the Blue Jays was fired because the team was not performing well under the supervision of the GM

Now to relate this to crime

John Smith police officer is told what to do 95% of the time ( these percentages are only general estimates ).

Sgt Jane Smith is told what to do 80% of the time

Staff Sgt Tony Smith is told what to do 60 % of the time

Inspecotor Suzy Smith is told what to do 30% of the time

Deputy Chief Robert Smith is told what to do 10% of the time.

There is only one Smith who controls all of these people.

So after a decade what should happen if the results from the Smith family are not good enough.
10/1/2010 10:20:26 AM
tiredofit says:
Rbosh, your starting to sound paranoid.. To be honest, I haven't decided whom I'm going to vote for when it comes to Mayor, but Hobbs is defintely appealing based on everything I've read and it appears that a few of you seem to be scared of him.
As for requoting myself, ummm I only quoted your statement.
10/1/2010 11:06:16 AM
tiredofit says:
Rbosch/Jason, here's a direct quote from Jason's website:
"Opportunity Thunder Bay is a politically independent, membership based, not-for-profit organization whose mission is to serve and help lead the District of Thunder Bay business community while positively influencing our region's social and economic landscape "

A politically indpendant organization.. well.. given the amount of support and ranting they do about Peterson, I don't seem the as such.

Again, I along with others are still waiting to hear if this organization has received any public funds (city/provincal/federal) to help it run. It's a simple request.
10/1/2010 11:23:36 AM
tudor says:
northfirst, lets say for the moment that I agree with you, that the Mayor doesn't owe the community an apology. I think she does, but I will give you this one for the moment.

She owes us this.

Mayor, as the leader of city council and as a member of the POlice Services Board, can you tell us why, in the first six years of your terms as Mayor, you have not made one initiative, one announcement or one public statement that says crime is a problem in this city.

Why only after the community roared in agreement with Mr. Hobbs are steps being taken.

The one area I agree with Mr. Waller, steps need to be taken to avoid crime spiralling out of control

That statement sound vaguely familiar to things Hobbs has said.

And northfist you may wish to misquote Mr. Hobbs or mislead everyone about his position, but he has never once, not publicly, and I have no idea privately said we need to hire more cops.

He has consistently said, we need to put more cops to work, patrolling the streets and making this city safe. He said he will do that while cutting the police budget. He has also repeatedly said, many of these points presented by Dr. Waller over the past ten years while everyone refused to listen.

You have to appreciate the fact that as the election is near, the Mayor has found out that crime might be a problem in T.bay.

so, who to fix it. The guy who has been trying to offer ideas and solutions to break the cycle of violence and crime or the Mayor who woke up recently and realized people like what Hobbs has to say.
10/2/2010 2:20:42 PM
My YQT says:
How nice, the creation of a crime prevention council and right before the election. Is this to appease certain groups, or is it pre-election posturing?

If it is to appease certain groups then for certain, the funds for the creation of this committee will come directly from the police budget and there will be a redistribution of resources, right? If not, then why have this committee? Who makes up this committee? Does it consist of front line officers?

I suppose that the tax payers will not have a say on the make up of this committee, nor will they see the make up of this committee until the i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed.

This police department has “community officers,” “Aboriginal liaison officers,” “tactical officers,” and countless other specialty group officers. Surely, if this city council was serious in taking a proactive approach to fighting crime, they would have formed a committee with the “experts” of our community: the police who actually see the crime on a daily basis.

If this is pre-election posturing, then it should stop now! It is allowing municipal politicians to have air time to say “look at what I’m doing for you right now.” To form this committee at this time, in the opinion of many voters, is a crime in itself. This should be a time of performance review, not performance right now.

Now I am certainly not an expert in politics, but if I am not mistaken, federal and provincial parliament does not sit and make important decisions for a period leading up to an election. Should this not be the same for municipal politics? Why are important decisions, such as this new crime council, being made within a month of the election? Surely these types of decisions can be put on hold for a brief period to allow voters time to focus on performance of current sitting members and equally evaluate credentials of perspective candidates.
10/2/2010 4:08:54 PM
bella1979 says:
Dear Henry:

I didn't realize that this tool is here for people like you to put other people down for their suggestions or ideas!! I would also like to point out that your rebuttle has little or nothing to do with my statement of willingness to help out or volunteer and educate. My wanting to feel safe in our community is valid as I am sure others would agree. I think you should GROW UP and possibly have a little faith...I am sure your life is sad and pathetic and that is why you feel the need to lash out at me. END!

10/3/2010 4:32:14 PM
renegade says:
lets get serious here people, what we need are stiff, VERY STIFF penelties for those that break the law, especially repeat offenders.
three strikes and your out, i mean really out, no holiday at the farm etc., we need to make the jails, jails again, a place where no one would want to be, and if they did end up there they certainly would not want to risk going back!!
if someone kills somebody and there are at least three eye witnesses, then kill them, hang,shoot,electricute or whatever...

let me put it this way... if you touched a hot stove and got burnt/hurt, ya probably would not do it again. give the criminals a reason not to commit the crimes, because they will know that there are very serious, very real consequences they will have to face, and will face them imediatly!!!

society has become way to lienient and there are far too many bleeding hearts out there...ooh that poor fellow that held up a convienance store is in jail for two years being forced to work and only has bread,water and some sort of gruel to eat...well too damn bad for him, he made the choice, now he's gotta face the consequences!!

or maybe those of us that still have our spines should start taking some action!!!
10/3/2010 7:25:29 PM
pieislandrefugee says:
you are so right Renegade..

at the very least, we can see that the lighter we've become on the criminals... it has not served one bit to lessen our crime levels.

I dont care how many times these clowns claim that we need social programs to prevent this, its not working.

We can see in Thunder Bay the amount of handouts we give just keeps growing and growing. Where's the positive result??

Its not happening is it?

We need to drastically alter our course if we want to have results. Cancel all the freebies, and make criminals responsible for their actions.

Everytime a lawyer starts whining about how the defendant had a tough childhood they should be thrown out of the practice of law.

tougher sentences will prevent crime better than any other method.

If Im wrong, someone tell me just where the positive results are of our nice-ness to our criminals. Because I aint seeing it.
10/4/2010 10:42:15 AM
molly says:
Dr Waller advances a theory about crime reduction that by his own words takes many years to achieve.
He is touted by the local media as an "expert"
Other "experts tout the "broken window theory" used by Mayor Giuliani in NYC.
In his approach there was a zero tolerence for crime. There were Police on every corner and the jails were filled.
The result was NYC went form a crime ridden city to one of the worlds safest large cities.
The benefit was that tourists and business returned in large numbers and the local economy boomed
Just an example of opposing theories and experts at odds
10/4/2010 2:39:39 PM
quitcensoringme says:

Stiff penalties have never worked. Crimes are usually crimes of passion. ie out of control regardless of penalty. The other form of crime is premeditated. ie, it doesn't matter what the penalty, its planned and it gets done.
The result is the same burden on society only it's getting worse. Penalties are NOT the solution, prevention is.

If I kill someone and get the death sentence, then I won't kill anyone no more. In that case your system works. It's also known as ethnic cleansing. It's been tried before.
10/4/2010 8:03:35 PM
tudor says:
renegade --- on a purely emotional level I agree with much of what you have to say but unfortunately, the facts don't seem to support it, as much as I or you would like.

The US has probably the harshest penal system around, yet their crime rate continues to spiral. The jail more people and have a higher rate of repeat offenders.

We can keep locking people up but we need to find a better way. In that regard, dr. waller is correct. You don't solve the crime problem simply by making arrests, but what he doesn't say is that you prevent additional crimes from taking place because you actually caught the person who did one before he did a second one.

The cycle of crime needs to be addressed in a new and better way. That is what Hobbs has been saying for a decade in my view. I just read the brochure for Bill Scollie today and guaranteed I am voting for him in my ward.

This is what he said:

10/4/2010 10:56:08 PM
tudor says:
hit the submit button by accident

This is what Bill Scollie said:

"last fall he attended before council to speak about the increased levels of crime in the city. his comments were met with silence and outright denial by many of our community leaders. they either did not want to hear or worse didn't care"

I agree with Hobbs, an apology is in order

10/4/2010 10:58:36 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
75% of spontaneous crime is fueled by alcohol. Until all those fat old white men in suits are no longer allowed to falsely promote and sell it as a refreshing social lubricant, then things might change. When I was a kid, only the stupid bums and wasters drank regularly.
10/5/2010 9:18:50 AM
Imagine says:
The way I see it is that the Mayor and Council has spent (or approved) the continued Police budget throughout this term so that we have one of the highest, per capita police departments, including the addition of Aboriginal liason, Community Officers, tactical officers, countless other speciality group officers - but we are no further ahead. This Crime prevention Council is definately a step in the right direction - working WITH existing Officers, not just hiring more. But, like everything, it should all begin at home. We should all be responsible for our children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews, ensuring that they are living up to our expectations, not just blaming society or the schools for our kids turning to crime. We need to stop blaming everyone else and get rid of the "it's not my fault" mentality. I think that Mr. Hobbs scare tackticts are just that - bullying and not my fault - was he not part of the Police Force for 20+ years ... shouldn't he then also apologise to the citizens for the state that our city is in?
10/5/2010 2:39:11 PM
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