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2011-03-11 at 16:27

Despite controversy, high school to continue allowing pro-life event

By Jodi Lundmark, tbnewswatch.com
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St. Patrick High School will likely continue its pro-life Day of Silent Solidarity event despite the controversy it sparked when students formed a counter demonstration Thursday.

About 24 students wore a piece of green tape with the word “choice” written on it on their regular school uniform in response to an annual pro-life event, which had a group of students take a one-day vow of silence and wear red tape with “life” written on it.
 
Grade 10 student Alexandria Szeglet started the green tape trend before being sent home for refusing to remove the tape from her uniform. Another five to seven students were sent home for the day or issued a two-day suspension.

Thunder Bay Catholic District School Board director of education John De Faveri said yesterday’s events won’t affect the future of the Day of Silent Solidarity, which is something St. Patrick’s pro-life student group founder Alexandra Calnan, 19, was worried would happen.

“That was my number one concern as soon as I found out about this,” said Calnan, who graduated from the high school in 2009 and is now a student at Lakehead University.

The Silent Solidarity event raises money for the group to attend right-to-life events and also for the group’s Project Mommy, which collects supplies to make care packages for the school’s young mothers.

Calnan said she heard from several students that some of the pro-choice students weren’t respectfully debating the issue, but using profanity against pro-life students. She also learned that the school chaplain was allegedly mocked by a couple of students participating in the pro-choice demonstration.
 
Calnan said opposition doesn’t faze her because as a pro-life supporter she said she faces it on a regular basis. But she added that she wants the current St. Pat’s pro-life group to stay strong despite the recent controversy.

“They were totally within their right to be expressing their opinion and raising funds for their projects,” she said of the pro-life student group. “They had the administration’s approval months in advance…they went through all of the right procedures.”

De Faveri said the students who expressed opposing views to the event are allowed to do so, but hadn’t gone through the proper channels to have the alteration to their uniforms approved.
 
“They had the opportunity to state their message, which they did,” he said Friday. “After they had a chance to do that, it was time for them to take off their statement. The vast majority, all but five or seven, chose to do that after they had a chance to talk to administration of the school. That was by about 9:30 in the morning.”

The students who chose not to comply were in violation of the school’s code of conduct.
In this case, a couple of the students openly swore at a teacher and the others’ behaviour is defined as opposition to authority, De Faveri said.

“It was whatever would have happened under any other circumstance where a student’s swearing at one of our teachers or not comply with the requests with someone who is in a position of authority at the school,” he said.

Fifteen-year-old Brittney Cloutier was issued a two-day suspension for not removing the green tape and said she did it because she wanted to prove her point.
 
“I saw Alex giving out tape in the hall. I thought it was a good idea because something bad could happen so I do believe a woman does have a choice to get an abortion or not,” she said, adding she felt it was unfair for the pro-life students to have a voice while pro-choice students were expected to remain absent from the issue.

“They say they’re a Catholic school and they won’t judge you and they won’t shove religion down your throat, but really they’re doing the exact opposite,” she said.

De Faveri couldn’t say whether or not the green-tape initiative would have been approved had it gone through the same process as the Day for Silent Solidarity. He said he does want students to know that the process is there for any events they want to organize.
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Comments

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Gord says:
Its hard to believe we are reading this story in 2011. Apparently, the area around St.Patrick is in some kind of time warp.

I think they should spend more time thinking about how to turn out literate and critically thinking students and less time worried about a piece of tape on their uniforms.

Frankly, this is embarassing for the City at large.
3/11/2011 4:44:02 PM
New Democrat says:
Gord, it's only embarrassing if nobody did anything about it. Alexandria and the other 24 students are doing something about it. I can't tell you enough how full of pride I am in this girl.

It's embarrassing for the Catholic school board which now has their hypocrisy in the public eye thanks to Alexandria. Hopefully she'll spark a change.
3/11/2011 5:30:03 PM
Gord says:
Its embarassing that a publicly funded school board feels it is acceptable to endorse this mysogynistic ideology. It's sad that they feel this is the right way to go. I agree with you completely in terms of your pride for what these students are doing.
3/11/2011 8:51:28 PM
muleman says:
Again, the pro-abortion camp would rather belittle pro-lifers than actually defend their case. This is because they don't have a leg to stand on.

The underlying issue is ABORTION. I don't agree with defacing the uniforms on either side, but I'm glad the school is bringing it up. It should definitely be part of the curriculum. There is much mis-information and much to be taught regarding abortion. Yes, we all have rights and freedoms and we should all be thankful for those. But all this talk about 'independent' thought and 'choice' is ridiculous. What are those thoughts?! What are the choices? What are these individual ideas and beliefs? Please, stop crying foul, stop crying rights, and voice your pro-abortion arguments. I have yet to hear a rational one.

A few examples:

"It's my body, it's my choice!" Really?! So you're saying that you, as a pregnant woman, are growing a second head? Two more arms? Or [in the case of a boy], a penis?! That's absurd! Clearly it is a separate human being, who has rights and freedoms of its own! What makes your rights more important than a little person's?

"What about rape or incest?" That is horrible, but why punish an innocent human baby for the crimes of the father? How is that fair?! Punish the father!

"Don't impose your religious beliefs on me." This is merely an underhanded method to silence the pro-life argument. Science says that life begins at conception. The law says not to murder. Morality says it's wrong to hurt the defenceless. Common sense says keep your pants on. How are these religious beliefs?
3/11/2011 5:23:31 PM
chie says:
The issue is about both parties being able to express their own individual views on a sensitive topic.Pro-lifers won't convince pro-choice that what they are doing is wrong and vice-versa.This issue is so morally sensitive. Why can't everyone do what they preach and quit trying to enforce their own ideas onto others?
It makes me proud to think that Alexandria stood up for what she believed .She did it peacefully and with class as opposed to many pro-life campaigns which do nothing but argue against their cause. Pro-choice isn't arguing that aborting a child is the right thing to do , but that if you feel it is right for you then it is your choice.
3/11/2011 6:20:21 PM
galexanderj says:
The fetus depends solely on the mother and if the mother decides that she doesnt want to take care of it the only other thing that will happen is the fetus will die. You cant just take the fetus and give it to someone else to care for.

Now, i know youre thinking "what about if she has actually has baby, you think its alright if she just stops taking care of it and lets it die?" And to that i disagree, someone else could take care of that child.

Im not advocating abortion as the right choice, but i don't see it as being as wrong as even robbing a store. Aside from the mother, father, doctor and fetus, who is affected. The abortion of a fetus doesn't affect society in the same way as something like a robbery or drunk driving because the fetus is never part of society.
3/11/2011 6:37:55 PM
SG says:
Sorry muleman, I think you're wrong. I don't think this is about abortion at all. It may have started out as an abortion issue, but the result? Nahhh. This is about expression. Frankly I'm on two sides of the issue. The green tape kids didn't go through the proper channels to get approval for their event, maybe they knew they wouldn't get it.
The school isn't bringing it up, the students are. Seems like an incredible teaching opportunity for the school, it's a shame they don't seem to be taking the opportunity!

You, muleman, are the one who is belittling pro-choicers in the exact way you say pro-lifers are belittled.

I believe in pro-choice, EDUCATED pro-choice. And I don't have to explain to you why. Nor do you have to explain to me why you're pro-life. That, my friend, is respect.

St. Pat's has a fantastic chance to have open discussion and open the doors for kids to discuss their beliefs amongst an educational environment and in regards to their religious beliefs. Frankly, this is what they need to do.
3/11/2011 6:48:35 PM
Gord says:
You cant be serious. I have not seen one post, nor has anyone even hinted at a belittlement of the pro-life argument - Personally, more power to you, I agree with your right to express yourself. That is the entire point - both sides have the right to express their view without persecution. If pro-life cannot defend their position without persecuting the other side then it is clearly a weak position.
If you are looking for a rational argument, try analyzing the arguments rationally... Here is a good start - what about the fundamental right to free choice for a woman to choose what happens to her body. Trying to control what a woman does with her body has no place in a modern society. Time to try respecting other views and allowing free speech - a lot of brave men and women gave their life to protect this right and its not fair when narrow minded people arbitrarily try to overrule what they accomplished.
3/11/2011 9:00:18 PM
baor says:
"Belittle pro-lifers"? And just what do you think the so-called pro-lifers do to the pro-choicers? What do they say to a woman as she walks into a clinic? What do they call her? What do they call the Doctor? Some abortion Doctors have been murdered for doing what they are legally trained and allowed to do. I'd say that the fact that abortion is legal in Canada meams that the pro-choice people most certainly have a leg to stand on, and the government ... listened.
To suggest this is not about religious beliefs is a rediculous statement to make! When a publicly taxpayer funded "Catholic" school, makes it an issue... it is most certainly a "religious" based one. Don't kid yourself muleman.
This debate will never die, as long as one group of people continues to push their beliefs upon another.
3/11/2011 9:03:46 PM
double-dion says:
This is great news...It is good to see this school stand up for what is so clearly right.
3/11/2011 5:57:46 PM
Zeppelin says:
High-school students should be encouraged to build there own ideas and beliefs and to express them but sometimes you have to go around "the system" to do so, and I think that there should be nothing wrong with that. There is no straight set of catholic ideals that apply to anybody, regardless of how religious you are, you cannot enforce that.
Not all students who choose to attend catholic highschool are nessesarily catholic or may not even know at that point what it all means. Besides there are plenty of catholic people who are pro-choice.
Even though De Faveri wouldn't say if a pro-choice event would even have been approved, go for it and see what happens, try to get approval for a pro-choice event, that way every pro-choice student at St. Pats (and for that matter every catholic highschool in the city) can express there opinion without all this BS!
And if it doesnt get approved, well I would just show up to class after my suspension sporting a shiney green choice sticker.
3/11/2011 6:01:30 PM
homelessteen says:
The young ladies who are pro choice were distastful in their actions. Much like if someone were to wear a gayshame shirt to a pride rally.
3/11/2011 9:08:34 PM
Tannoy says:
Are you kidding me?? this was an event being held in a school, these pro-choice kids didnt go to a pro-life rally being held outside, this was forced in their face by the school having this event in the first place, they have every right to be upset about it and show their side of the argument!
3/14/2011 8:44:01 AM
kate says:
I don't think that some of you understand that the pro-choicers were swearing and being very hurtful. Abortion KILLS A HUMAN BEING. no other argument is valid
3/11/2011 9:09:33 PM
tsb says:
Is an acorn a tree? Is an egg a chicken? Is a pile of lumber a house?

Abortion does not kill a human being, it kills a fetus that is totally dependent on a human being to live, a fetus that could make life for that human being extremely difficult; potentially ruining its own life before it begins if the mother cannot care for the human that results from the fetus and it ends up bounced around from home to home by CAS.
3/12/2011 7:48:49 AM
SG says:
kate if the prochoice folk were behaving that way, then yes it was wrong. But can you see how your so-called argument 'Abortion KILLS A HUMAN BEING. no other argument is valid' is wrong too? In fact it's not even a discussion if you begin by phrasing things that way. Discussion is the healthiest way to understand another point of view or even hear it.
3/12/2011 9:31:45 AM
psmith says:
This is political nonsense in the school system, which is not supposed to ram any particular political ideology down young people's throats.

It might be acceptable to do all this in a private school, but there's no way public tax money should be going to support this type of behavior.

Time to have one school system for Ontario, like other provinces have already done.
3/11/2011 9:16:40 PM
arnold says:
If I was sent home or was suspended from school for something I believed in. I would not go back to that school.

Plus these kids have a few days off now why not protest out side school just off the property but in sight. With signs of pro-choice.
Teachers can't tell you to take off the tape there!
3/11/2011 11:10:09 PM
ComradeLeninHiawathaZwig says:
I'd be the first to stand beside them if they did that. All they'd have to do is say when they'd be there.
3/12/2011 12:43:55 AM
tbaybmkr says:
Uniforms?? Really??
3/12/2011 12:39:48 AM
george2000 says:
You have the right to free speech, you don't have the right to say whatever you want whenever you want. You have the right to vote, but not until you are 18. You have the right to own property but not if it belongs to someone else. You would have to purchase it from them.
You have the right to move to any city you wish, but you don't have the right to live whevever you want or to build your home however you want.

There are all kinds of rules that we live in that make a society work and another one is, a place, a school can impose certain rules and conditions in order for you to participate there as long as they do not violate your fundamental rights. The school tells you what rights you have while you are in that building.

This young girl has the right to express her views on the sidewalk, at home or on the street, in many different places. She does not have the "right" to express the view that all woman have the right to choose abortion in an institution whose fundamental belief is that abortion is a sin.

This is not about whether or not I agree with the catholic position, it is about the schools right to set the restrictions they wish to set.

You don't have the right to come in to St. Patricks Cathedral and spout death to Christians or that abortion is a woman's choice. If students cannot conform to the schools rules, they have the "right to leave". That is the only "right" that is debatable here.

Why not say the kids have the right to cell phones, IPODS, to eat, to talk, to wear what they want in the class room. Because this particular school has rules. You don't have to like them and you are free to go somewhere else to receive the same education and to place tape on your shirt to say whatever you wish. However, would a public school allow a student to walk around with tape on their shirt espousing any views on either side. I doubt it.

She did not break the law, nor did she hurt anyone. She may have done this out of the sincere belief of her position, or to score some political points for a cause, but regardless, in this place, it is not allowed. Don't we teach our children that they should follow the rules or are we supporting children who wish to ignore them, regardless of how noble some might think the cause is.
3/12/2011 1:20:39 AM
tbayvoter says:
Each side has always expressed distain for the other.... I have my own opinion that the choices we take now will live with us for the rest of our days. With this being a Catholic School I am Forced to wonder about one statement made about the "Event"...

"The Silent Solidarity event raises money for the group to attend right-to-life events and also for the group’s Project Mommy, which collects supplies to make care packages for the school’s young mothers."

I don't know of anyone else but this tells me they do Support PRE Marital Sex with this statement. OR are there that many young female teachers whom are married that these care packages go to?
3/12/2011 6:55:23 AM
Glyder says:
"I don't know of anyone else but this tells me they do Support PRE Marital Sex with this statement. OR are there that many young female teachers whom are married that these care packages go to?"

Really? REALLY? YOung teachers huh? Oh, I guess you have never heard of teenage pregnancy. Man, that is the one of the most inane comments I have ever read lol.
3/14/2011 8:16:41 AM
pearlman says:

It's easy to choose when it isn't your life and your body.
3/12/2011 7:53:37 AM
ANVIL OF CROM says:
"Mewl"man, please stop it , your turning this into a pro abortion versus anti abortion issue.

this simply put could be a charter of rights violation:
Fundamental freedoms

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.

can this charter be contraindicated under the separate school board?
3/12/2011 8:48:39 AM
pieislandrefugee says:
freedom of association?

there you go. Nobody was forcing these pro choicers to go to this school and subscribe to the Catholic belief system.

Dont like their beliefs? Dont attend their schools... and expect them to honour your beliefs.

The future is not bright for these kids, and I suspect their parents and supporters arent very bright either.
3/12/2011 2:30:01 PM
anvil of crom says:
uhh your the one thats not too bright. Your logic is flawed (and too boot you seem angry.)

Let me spell it out for you.
Read b. b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

Get my point? = freedom of expression.
No, no one forced the pro-choice people to go to the school,I hope not.
I am sure they did it of there free will!! but nonetheless they did go.
But by being sent home, for expressing the "pro choice" opinion , seems to have violated their "freedom of expression."
Furthermore , the school is in the Land of Canada and as such any Canadian on it can freely express themselves, as per the charter of rights.
Simple? if not i would say you need to go back to school!
3/12/2011 7:16:21 PM
lask5 says:
Actually their religious parents were probably forcing them to go to this school..
3/15/2011 2:40:17 PM
Bobguy says:
I think the red tape rally state 'that the world needs more unwanted children'.

If pro-lifers want to make a difference and reduce the amount of abortions they should be putting their efforts into protection and prevention. Access to information, condoms and birth control is what will reduce abortions.
3/12/2011 9:49:54 AM
karma says:
I really hope all these pro-"life"ers are vegetarians. The hypocrisy of defending unconscious life and then chowing down on the flesh of a conscious being is rediculous. ALL life is valuble, so don't preach a holier than thou attitude when supporting the death of other living creatures.
3/12/2011 9:57:38 AM
homelessteen says:
The pro life students were not voicing an opinion they used a sticker and were observing an act of silence. Maybe if the ladies who are pro choice would have done the same with a choice sticker and no words the end result would have been different. Voicing your opinion to someone who has made it clear they are not speaking as a showing of respect; seems to be a deliberate attempt to cause trouble. Having a debate with ladies who are remaining silent hardly seems fair.
American children are sent home from school for wearing the American flag on their own soil during cinco de mayo day in the states because it is seen as disrespectful to Mexican Americans. Respect is a two way street. Your pro choice young ladies were wrong for their behaviour not for being pro choice
3/12/2011 9:59:14 AM
Zeitgeist says:
Public support of religious schooling is divisive, and too expensive. Many other religious groups are out there now demanding the public pay for their schools too. Because we pay for the Catholic School system we will be on the hook for theirs too. We cannot afford it. It's crazy and it's time now for a One School System.
3/12/2011 1:55:10 PM
chbaker says:
Perhaps it's time to consider the fact that education is no place for religion.
The two are not compatible.

Maybe Grade 10 student Alexandria Szeglet should consider going to a regular school and leaving all this religious mumbo-jumbo where it belongs.. In the past.
3/12/2011 2:07:19 PM
arnold says:
One thing I noticed about Mr. De Faveri is that he was almost laughing in the interveiw on the news.
3/12/2011 2:11:18 PM
Medical Practitioner says:
Pro-Life? Pro-Abortion? These are 'Travellers Questions.' It depends who the couple are and where they are going. As a GP and later as a Specialist, two of the most difficult mental health problems I have had to address are firstly those women who were forced to abort a pregnancy and later grieve the loss; the other issue is the woman of any age who trusts a man, gives herself in trust and hope and is then jilted. It has been immortalised in the folksong:-
Early one morning,
Just as the sun was rising,
I heard a young maid sing,
In the valley below.
Oh, don't deceive me,
Oh, never leave me,
How could you use
A poor maiden so?
Remember the vows,
That you made to your Mary,
Remember the bow'r,
Where you vowed to be true...

I am a male Ecumenical Anglican who, with prior understanding, received the Elements at Mass in the Vatican from the Cardinal of Rome.
St Pats! Teach the girls the meaning of Agape; you know it; Corr 13. Teach them about Filia and especially that Eros is a fickle fellow!

Tbnewswatch.com

3/12/2011 3:45:55 PM
jafo says:
again, I ask if the school has the right to suspend/expel it's gay & lesbian students....or is God flying a rainbow flag these days?
3/12/2011 6:34:48 PM
double-dion says:
Karma..Are you really comparing the life of a child to that of a cow? Wow.
3/12/2011 11:14:09 PM
VofR says:
If you believe that a human life is sacred, you have to ask yourself WHY is a human life sacred? What makes humans so special? What do we do that makes us so sacred?

The concept that we are sacred is a human-made concept and is self-serving. If we are so scared and our lives are so special, why do we not think the same for all life? Why do we treat other form of life in the most horrific ways - stuff you would not even find in a horror movie.

If you think that our life is above all other life, go watch the documentry called "Earthings" and see how us 'sacred and special' humans treat other life.

After you finish throwing up, figure out what the hell is wrong with us humans and put forward a solution, I dont think you can say that we are more valueble than other life. After that, we can talk about abortion.

...and yes, I have killed a fly before..and yes, I did feel bad about it.

As far as I am concerned, the world is overpopulated. We are running out of resources, food, and space. People and governments should be looking at promoting decreased and mandated family size. Offer incentives to couples who do not want children. Heavily tax those that choose to have "extra" children above the mandated family size. Anyways, I am rambling.

In closing, Pro-life is a subset of Pro-choice. Pro-choice just says "We support those who choose to have a child, we support those that choose to have an abortion, we support the freedom to not be forced into either of those choices."
3/13/2011 9:21:55 AM
karma says:
I am saying that we are all a part of this earth, all life, and only humans are audacious enough to think we are the only ones that matter. I am saying that all living beings feel pain. I feel it is hypocritical to defend some life whilst slaughtering others. Take from that what you will.
3/13/2011 11:58:35 AM
Illuminati_nation says:
Okay, for the benefit of all of the would-be constitutional lawyers on this site, who think Charter rights aren't without their limits, allow me to introduce to you two words: DENOMINATIONAL RIGHTS.

Can a Catholic school system disallow someone the "freedom of expressing" an opinion that runs contrary to its "constitutionally" protected right to teach its own curriculum (within its schools)? Yes, it can. It can do this in the same (or similar) context with which it has a right to deny hiring non-Catholic teachers.

A school board's right to invoke denominational rights can trump a person's Charter rights of freedom of expression provided that it can be "demonstrably justified" in a "free and democratic society" (see Section 1 of the Charter). So, if a board can demonstrate that the PRO-CHOICE movement is a contradiction to the fundaments of Catholic teachings (or doctrine), then they could ban or limit any form of expressing the pro-choice opinion in its schools (this could include clubs, books, posters, and even GREEN TAPE) - and it wouldn't take much to demonstrate that pro-choice is a contradiction to its teachings.

Bottom line, the kids have a right to a pro-choice demonstration, just not necessarily in a Catholic school. Lastly, THIS IS AN ABORTION ISSUE above all others. If the Green Tape represented a protest against banning "To Kill a Mockingbird," this wouldn't have even made the news.
3/13/2011 3:00:17 AM
Medical Practitioner says:
Jafo! It is not a problem accepting homosexuals. I understand the Pope made a statement to this effect. The problem is not what they are but what they do. There are prominent homosexuals in the Anglican church here in Australia. When I challenged one of them how he could condone sodomy, he said he did not condone nor practice it. My immediate question to him, a leader in the church, was why then does he not speak out; male homosexuals sodomise women; this is the most antifeminine act possible. One Catholic Social worker told me that homeless girls on drugs who live on the streets submit to sodomy to keep their boys who supply their drugs. (I am well aware that the practice was used as a method of birth control in some nomadic tribes.)


Tbnewswatch.com

3/13/2011 5:03:51 AM
mr. realist says:
@ Gord (and everyone else that is applauding these students)

if these students feel this strongly about this topic-there are four high schools in the lakehead board that they can go to that won't have a problem with their opinion on this.
if they don't like the beliefs of the Catholic board-DON'T GO!!!
3/13/2011 8:39:55 AM
psmith says:
It's not a question of choosing which high school to attend. That's beside the point.

It's the fact that, regardless of their beliefs on the issues, taxpayer's money is going towards political programming of students at these schools ...and shutting down voices of others with differing opinions. Schools that accept public money should allow a free and open debate on important issues.

This is just more evidence that separate religious school systems should be abolished. Ontario needs to catch up to the rest of the country and fund only ONE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

Tax money should not go towards promoting religious doctrine (of ANY religion)
3/13/2011 9:06:26 AM
SG says:
chbaker: I believe that school is an excellent place for exploring all religions. One of my kids is in a world religion class that is outstanding!! They examine their own personal creed and move forward learning about many different religions. Each day they are encouraged to express themselves, debate and communicate. I think this gives them an opportunity to investigate different belief systems and hopefully, make decisions about their own beliefs. And he's in a public high school.

Lastly, everyone keeps saying if you don't like the beliefs of the Catholic board - don't go. But the Catholic board is losing a teaching opportunity! This could be the start of a great moment, open the doors of communication, shepherd the teens into discussion, investigation and understanding! I've always believed that any education can teach the 3 r's but a GREAT education goes far beyond, encouraging a student to think beyond the mundane to greater expression of ideas!
3/13/2011 9:44:31 AM
anvil of crom says:
I think you summed this up all very well and how the whole issue can move forward.
The debate here is the start of that.
good comment.
3/13/2011 1:31:28 PM
kidknapp says:
We should only have ONE school system!
3/13/2011 11:22:14 AM
Gord says:
To those who are trying to complicate this issue, let me try to simplify it.
This is a publicly funded institution that must subscribe and support the rules we all live by. Free speech is a fundamental civil liberty. The right to gather peacefully is a fundamental civil liberty. Education is a right in this country. The people that are pro-life have the right to share their message as do the pro-choice group. This has nothing to do with what Schoo you elect. If Catholic's want to open a private school and make their own rules without government support and restrict basic civil liberties, more power to them. That is not the case here, this is a public school and a public education. To restrict access to those who believe what the board believes is not acceptable. To the people who say "just dont go there if you dont like it" - There may be other reasons why students choose to attend there - the students have that right and they have the right to a balanced education and independent thought.
3/13/2011 1:10:31 PM
E.Bron says:
To VofR,
Why is a human life sacred? We have been created in our LORD's image, that is what makes a human life so special. You are exactly right we do treat life in the most horrific ways. Countless lives are butchered everyday in a barbaric manner and we all seem to look the other way because it is our right to decide how these lives will end. These are the lives of infants butchered in abortion clinics everyday. How is it that we feel more remorse for the killing of a pig or cow than the murder of our own flesh and blood? My solution to dealing with what is wrong with us as humans is to look to our heavenly Father and ask him for forgiveness for the horrible things that we think, do and say everyday. It is he who sent his SON to die for us, that is us not chickens, so with that I can be confident that our life is more valuable than other life forms.
3/13/2011 1:34:25 PM
brainysmurf says:
A few comments and questions:
Does Alex know what exactly she was standing up for by promoting her "CHOICE" opinion? Did she do the research to discover that according to Stats Canada, millions of babies have been killed through abortion? (Google "stats canada abortion rates")Does she realize it is not illegal in Canada to abort a baby up to 9 months in the womb? (Google "partial birth abortion") Does she understand that many many women regret their abortions (Google "regret abortion")including "Jane Roe" of Roe vs. Wade (Google it). The students who were wearing red tape with the word "LIFE" on it did their research and organized the Silent Day of Solidarity to be in solidarity to the millions of babies in Canada alone that have lost their lives due to abortion.
3/13/2011 3:21:57 PM
ComradeLeninHiawathaZwig says:
Research from what sources? Pro-life websites with dogma to push?
3/14/2011 10:25:05 AM
george2000 says:
kidnap, people shouldn't get sick either, but they do. We have two school systems. psmith, this system exists. it is exactly the point. Every parent is well aware it is a catholic school. I am willing to bet the overwhelming majority of parents chose this school for that very reason. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but for a refresher, BNA act and the full funding was brought in by Bill Davis, a good down to earth conservative.

However none of that matters because she broke the rules. It does not matter if I like the rules or you do, or any of the other supporters like them, she broke them. Let's walk in to a Mosque and wear a piece of tape with a slogan that is against their religion. What do you think the reaction would be. She can wear that slogan anywhere except where she can't. That should not be difficult for people to understand. People are trying to make the goal the issue instead of dealing with the behaviour. If she feels so strongly about this, organize many students with signs on the sidewalk at St. Pat's and before school, lunch and after school, walk on the sidewalk. But I would like to know how any student or any parent can support this action, the right of abortion in a catholic institution. How can you expect those who run the place to support this initiative. There is not much more ingrained in any system than a catholics belief that all life is sacred. This is not about the right and wrong of the issue it is about their fundamental beliefs.

She can't roller blade at Intercity Mall, she can't bring in her own Popcorn to Silver City, she can't play lawn bowling at Chapples Golf Course and she can't wear a slogan advocating the right to have an abortion in a catholic school. Public school, sure, private school maybe, catholic school, NO.

She broke the rules by choice. If she wants to attend there, simply obey the rules
3/13/2011 5:01:43 PM
Gord says:
You may not be able to do those things you quote, but you can THINK about them and TALK about them... that is the difference.
3/14/2011 12:36:59 PM
Medical Practitioner says:
Whilst this thread is invaluable as it discusses religion in schools, it is moving away from the question of Sex Education. Religion in Schools is an emotive topic; I suggest we discuss this under the heading ''Awareness of Diversity in Language and in Thinking''. To find discussion groups I started you need to be on Facebook then type in the search box on your Facebook page, then click on then click on and
PS Pic is Australian Wattle
Tbnewswatch.com

3/13/2011 5:40:31 PM
pearlman says:

Wow, students speaking their minds! Great news!

This story kind of goes hand in hand with the story in the fall about how more and more "Catholic" school teachers were lying that they were "Catholic" just to get jobs... So as more and more non-Catholics slip into the school system, the better the system itself was become.

Your body... Your CHOICE!
3/13/2011 5:58:04 PM
Tannoy says:
I think everyone is missing the real issue here... Green tape! Green tape has obviously clouded the minds of students and has no place in our school system. With so many students in favor of red rape obviously green tape should just stay out of the classrooms. Green tape clearly has no right to be seen!

Also, red tape has been approved through proper official super elite school channels which clearly means that it belongs where green doesnt. Green tape let me ask you this.. did you go through super official elite school channels to be allowed into view? No.. didnt think so... out with you green tape!
3/14/2011 8:59:13 AM
be patient says:
Mother Theresa:

"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."

Its absolutely inconceivable to me that a woman would take away the opportunity for a human being to have a chance at life.
3/14/2011 10:02:14 AM
sadiegirl says:
What if the woman cannot support this child? What if, by bringing this child into the world, they end up having a horrible life? What if this child goes up for adoption, and is moved from foster home to foster home, with no end in sight? What if, as a result, this child becomes addicted to drugs, and possibly a criminal? What if this child was conceived in a non-consensual matter?

Sure, these things may not happen, or they may not be the case, but who knows better than the woman carrying this child? What people need to accept is that everyone has a different situation. It may not be right for some people, but it may be exactly right for that one person.
3/15/2011 2:46:53 PM
trevor99 says:
Is it reasonable that only the woman is allowed the choice on what to do when a pregnancy occurs. If a woman choses to have an abortion a man cannot stop it. If a woman choses to keep the child the man cannot stop it and must pay support for that child.

I understand that the child should not be made to suffer and that it is the father's financial responsibility but doesn't that argument then support that the fetus is a person. I am not taking a side I am hoping to get some insight into how people think on that topic because it seems like a contradiction.

If a woman decides on Tuesday to carry the child to term, from that moment the man is responsible financially for that child but if Wednesday the woman changes her mind and chooses abortion, the man has zero say and the fetus is no longer a child that needs financial support. How can we have two definitions of the same situation?
3/14/2011 12:27:19 PM
my 2 cents says:
It sounds to me that the Catholic school board gave it's permission to violate the uniform code that day. Red tape or green tape should fall under that catagory and had it been allowed I believe that a peaceful "silent" form of communication may have opened the eyes and minds of others in the school. A thoughtful and respectful dialogue could have been established under supervision, instead of the fallout that is now occuring.
All you have to do is look to the posting from adults above to realize the emotions this topic provokes, yet people are surprised to hear that some youth acted inappropriately when their right were violated. Young adults who are at a developmental stage to begin questioning authority and pushing boundaries.
My personal side on this issue is not relevant, as I believe that both sides of the arguement should feel free to express their opinions, feelings and beliefs without fear of repercussion. I agree with others that the Catholic Board missed out on a teachable moment here and I am disappointed with their handling of the situation. As for the "you don't like it then leave" opinion, as long as they are not discriminatory of where the dollars come from to fund this system then I expect them to open their philosophies a little more within it.
These youth are going to be the leaders of tomorrow and I must say at this point I have more faith in them then in some of the adults involved.

3/14/2011 1:14:20 PM
Dudebro says:
This kind of event has no business happening in a school environment anyway. This is school, leave that kind of stuff to people to do on their own time. The school should NOT be getting involved whatsoever in any type of demonstrations like this. Everyone has lost focus of what school is. Go to school, learn, graduate THEN decide how your going to express you beliefs.
3/14/2011 1:33:09 PM
sg says:
Dudebro, that's really the kind of kids you want to raise? The kind that have information thrown down their throats with no right or ability to question it? I definitely DON'T want my kids to get that kind of education. I want my kids to learn expression and creative thought before they leave secondary school. And I want them to have educators that encourage discussion and debate. I don't want schools to put my kids into a 'thought box', I want my kids' minds to flower in school!

I'm pretty sure you're the one who's lost focus of what school is, it's too bad.Schools are structured environments and young minds are in the perfect place to explore these kinds of ideas.
3/15/2011 9:21:14 AM
LU Student says:
I would like to point to those of you who are simply stating that the student should not attend the school if they have alternative beliefs that many students are sent to catholic schools due to the wishes of their parents; as such they may or may not ascribe to the same belief system as their parents.

Children under the age of 18 are not allowed to make decisions such as switching schools without parental consent, even then, students are left with only one option due to the zoning which has been placed upon Thunder Bay.

An alteration was allowed for students to wear the red tape, and therefore sets a precedent for others to respectfully wear the green tape as well.
In the public board we are allowed to have "world religion" classes and have open discussions about different issues such as abortion and "right to life". In debates in the public setting religion is used as a counter argument in some topics, if it can be used there why can an opinion which is supposedly non-religios not be used in the catholic school board setting?
3/14/2011 1:35:11 PM
sadiegirl says:
Has anyone here gone to this school? I mean, how religious are they when they have, not only a separate class, but a whole separate floor for teenage mothers?

Clearly, if they are as religious as any one person on here has claimed, then they wouldn't take students who have sex before marriage, let alone those with children.

But you have to admit one thing - it sure got the attention of the Thunder Bay citizens.
3/14/2011 2:55:08 PM
george2000 says:
My two cents says that his personal opinion is irrelevant than gives a personal opinion that both sides should be heard. That is not the issue the law is. The law gives the school the right to determine policy as long as it does not conflict with the Charter. You do not have the right to free speech inside a school.

LU Student suggests that children under 18 cannot decide where they can go to school so they may not wish to follow catholic doctirine but is suggesting that those same children do not have to obey school rules. People want to get hung up on the abortion issue. It is not. It is an obedience issue. It is the schools legislative right to determine what is allowed and what is not. The rules do not change depending on the cause.

3/14/2011 3:39:05 PM
Ranma says:
When was the last time a pro-choice person killed a doctor who performed abortions? When was the last time a pro-choice person stood outside an abortion clinic and harrased the poor young women who went inside to get consultation/services? When was the last time a pro-choice person said that murder was justified to defend their point of view.
3/14/2011 6:03:35 PM
passlake says:
I am pro-choice, but I am also one that thinks if you are in a catholic school, you should follow the rules.

so, apparently they were asked to take the tape off but didn't... were the pro life people asked? if not, that is favouritism.

however, in a catholic school.. one must enforce the religious beliefs of the catholic church.. nothing wrong with that.. and everyone that attends that school, or sends their children to that school MUST respect the rules of that institution.

btw, find a video of doug stanhope and his views on abortion. that's why I'm pro-choice.
3/14/2011 10:28:27 PM
dee16 says:
“They say they’re a Catholic school and they won’t judge you and they won’t shove religion down your throat, but really they’re doing the exact opposite,” she said.

I could not agree with this statement more... i attended a catholic high school, and it seems they do NOT accept the choices a student has to make

the catholic religion states that "they accept everyone for who they are" my question is...why can't a gay couple get married in a catholic church ...the bible says it is wrong for man to have relation with another man, but if catholics ACCEPTED everyone for who and what they are..this should be an issue

The catholic religion also states, that they forgive everyone for their "sins" ....well, why is it that someone who commits suicide cannot have their funeral in a church? ..If catholics forgive everyone for their "sins" once again, this shouldn't be an issue..

The catholic school board is extremely strict, and when I attended St. Ignatius, my schooling was put on hold some days because there was one thing wrong with the pants I was wearing, i understand it is a uniform policy, but my family simply could not afford the types of pants they wanted me to wear, I was judged on what I was wearing, and was not allowed to sit in class, instead of learning, I had to go home numerous times.

I think its excellent to hear that these students have stood up for what they believe in and i give them all the props in the world, because it's about time some students fight for what they believe in, instead of being scared of the "authority" of the school. GREAT JOB STUDENTS!! KEEP FIGHTING FOR WHAT YOU WANT.
3/15/2011 12:12:25 PM
mercy mercy me says:
"and now for something completely different"
3/15/2011 4:17:01 PM
windphart says:
I'm not sure what comments cause my last two posts to be censored, so i'll split them up. I as anyone over the age of 30 to ask themselves if they feel the same way about the issue of pro-choice as they did when they were a teenager. Anyone who's been adopted is definately thankful for their mother's support of life. More to come...
3/16/2011 12:56:20 AM
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