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2011-09-09 at 15:40

As strike continues, union suggests students should ask for tuition refund

By Jamie Smith, tbnewswatch.com
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A union leader says college students should be asking for part of their tuition money back as her members continue to strike.

OPSEU Local 731 vice-president Adaire Conlon said while her members walk the line, students at Confederation College aren’t getting services, such as day care and fitness facilitates, that they and the Ontario public pay for.

 And the longer workers are out on the line, the fewer services students will have available.

"They’re not getting all those services that would also be able to help them in those stressful times," Conlon said outside of Confederation College Friday morning.

She said her members are frustrated and disappointed that management has so far refused a request from the union to go back to the negotiating table. Her members and students are suffering, which Conlon calls a social injustice.

"When nobody’s talking how can you negotiate a collective agreement? This is socially unjust what they’re doing," she said.

Conlon is encouraging students to talk with management and MPPs to get her members working again.

"Those are Ontario tax dollars and they’re being wasted by us being on the line. We need to be in there supporting our students," Conlon said.

Don Sinclair, with the management bargaining team, told the Canadian Press Friday that the colleges wouldn't be willing to return to bargaining until the union got “the big picture."
"Going back to the table to talk about the union's unaffordable positions will not get us a deal," Sinclair reportedly said.

"Unfortunately, the prospects of reaching a negotiated settlement are not positive so long as the union's bargainers do not accept the economic realities."

The Canadian Press also reported Friday that college negotiators would only return to the table if the union scales back demands for a three per cent annual wage increase. Sinclair added that he saw no signs the union was willing to do that.

The colleges are offering 1.5 per cent in each of the first two years and 1.75 per cent in the third year.
 
 



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Comments

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panzerIV says:
The union's motto is keeping good jobs in Ontario. I'm not sure what they make now but getting a guaranteed 1.5% increase sounds like a good deal to me.

To me it seems like this is the governments stand against unions. The McGunity government wanted agreements to take 0% so the government could get the budget balanced. OPP got 5%, nurses got an increase while non-unionized workers got a pay freeze. Maybe it is time to take a pay freeze for a couple years then when economics improve ask for a raise.

Your more likely to kill jobs by being to expensive to keep around. Hense why jobs moved to china
9/9/2011 4:07:26 PM
unfortunate says:
If they were actually offering a contract for 1.5% and NO CONCESSIONS Why have we not seen it in writing....... Because it does not exist. The reason we are on strike in the first place is not about the money. Job Security, Ability to Greave issues fairly, proper Working hours. The list goes on

We have told management from day one of this strike we are ready to bargain. They just have to be willing to as well.

There is more going on than what "The Council" is putting in the Media Check out our side at opseu.org


9/9/2011 8:52:04 PM
tannharr says:
I agree!
9/9/2011 10:16:22 PM
pearlman says:
OPP did not get a 5% pay increase, at least get your facts straight before you start spouting numbers.
9/10/2011 12:23:34 PM
panzerIV says:
They sure did. That's why there was tonz of stories after about how municipalities were going to pay for it and the Mayor said himself something like "this will set a precedent for our negotiations with our force"

Now it might be over the contract but a contract is only like 2-3 years.
9/12/2011 10:44:35 PM
trent says:
As long as the picketers continue to hold up students, they will certainly not get my support. These are kids trying to learn. They should not have to be subjected to the union BS.
9/9/2011 5:28:39 PM
Joe says:
Hold up students? You want to see students held up by picketers - you should have waited an hour to get into the University last year.

At the college (which I attend) the most I've had to wait is 5 minutes. The picketers are always friendly if you don't try to run them down.

Managment are refusing to help us (the students) in the college with certain things, yet they won't get back to the bargaining table with the Union.

9/9/2011 9:13:37 PM
tannharr says:
I agree!
9/9/2011 10:17:21 PM
wrong says:
Great point. I completely agree. I'm a unionized worker and I wouldn't dream of asking for more money right now. In this economy it's higher pay or less jobs. I would certainly want an economically stable Ontario before a small raise. I think unions need to be reasonable. If you are so concerned about students then go back to work.
9/9/2011 6:30:44 PM
tannharr says:
I agree!
9/9/2011 10:19:26 PM
friedfishy says:
I'm sorry, I just can't agree with the strike. I'm tired of all these unions striking as they can't get what they want. Last I checked, our economy isn't exactly booming and businesses are not begging for people to come work for them.

You have a job, be thankful for what you have right now. These students are trying to further their education so they to can have a job - some of them something like yours. Don't think for a second that someone won't come do your job for cheaper than your doing it right now - because newsflash - they will.

Don't be so certain the union will always be around to protect you. I agree with another comment - I don't think our government is pro-unions and nor am I.

Don't give in - not even an inch. Get your butts back to work - and let these students get what they are paying for.
9/9/2011 8:19:57 PM
Ranma says:
How many students are late to their classes, or late leaving and do not make it to their jobs on time because of the strike? Holding up the cars of poor working students does NOTHING for supporting your cause. Why should students how up an hour before their class just to ensure they can make it through your picket? I am sorry, but your tactics are only hurting the people you are supposed to be helping.
9/9/2011 8:40:49 PM
tannharr says:
I'm sure management would LOVE to return to the bargaining table. But rather than the union holding them hostage, the union needs to learn how to bargain. I'm in a union, I know how it works. Most unions have a "no concessions" rule. How is that bargaining??? Sounds to me that the union is the one that doesn't want to return to the table, because management isn't giving them what the demand!
9/11/2011 12:02:08 AM
Dontlistentome says:
It's a sad sight driving by the college... A true indication of the hypocritical stance this union had taken. While I can understand legal striking, what eludes me is how this union can block and/or cause delays in access to a facility that is truly a public facility. This is not to even mention the number of students who are paying customers. Many years ago now, ms. Lang instituted a customer service philosophy at the college, whereby students were in fact a customer, and were, rightfully, ENTITLED to excellent customer service. Further to this point, the entry delays cause an enormous back up of traffic, at the most critical times of day. Therefore, this union is also detrimentally affecting the safety of many who are quite removed from their plight altogether. If you want to stand up and argue for what you think you are deserving of from your employer, why not try doing so in a method that does not affect everyone in the remotest vicinity of your personal problem. Creating this vortex that sucks everyone into your personal problem does nothing to garner the support you must envision it will. Society is just simply more enlightened and intelligent than that, and seeing directly through these types of 'strong arm' tactics is all too obvious.
9/9/2011 9:07:07 PM
Joeyjoejoe says:
Unfortunately the media only focuses on one thing - money. This (and most) strikes are about far more than money. I believe that one of the major issues is that the colleges would like to replace full time postitions with part time, thus reducing job security.
9/10/2011 1:06:49 AM
leafsfanatic says:
Yet again the perception is this is only about money. It's about much more than that - read the proposals on the management and union sites to get the whole picture.

And the colleges are offering a 1.5% lump sum for the first year, meaning it's not an actual raise but a 1 time payout.
9/10/2011 1:43:57 AM
jonnyrrr says:
This is a BS Strike, If they were truly passionate about their cause maybe they shouldn’t pack up and leave at 4:15pm on a Friday. If OPSEU Local 731 wants higher wages they sure aren’t showing us how hard they work. I hope their strike effort does not reflect their work ethic. If you want respect start striking in shifts!
9/10/2011 7:50:35 AM
Jem says:
Not sure where you were, but I crossed the picket line at 5:10PM this Friday and they were there.

Get your facts straight.
9/10/2011 3:46:41 PM
PurpleLeaves says:
I agree with the first 3 posts. Remember last year with the Dryden Fire Fighters strike. The city told the union if they persisted with their demands, people would lose their jobs. The union stood firm and got their raise, but in the end, the city laid off 2 fire fighters. Public sector employees got it good and they always want more.

I love Conlon's statement, "...tax dollars being wasted by US..." Appreciate your honesty.
9/10/2011 8:29:13 AM
Tbaylifer says:
Why is it that people always seem to pick on unions yet say nothing when administrators take larger pay increases then any union has ever recieved. Say nothing when tax payer money is wasted by highly educated individuals? Jobs left for China to increase corporate profits. trent and wrong: don't your lips get sore from all that butt kissing and boot licking.
9/10/2011 9:25:49 AM
animiki says:
I try to see both sides of these issues because, as is usually the case in any disagreement, there are three positions--one side's, the other side's, and then the actual, reasonable (and often truthful) position. In this case, though, 3% is way out of line. That's an absolute pay increase, because it's higher than inflation. Very few workers are getting absolute pay increases these days (unless they belong to the public sector, that is) and, since it's my money they want, I'm honestly not inclined to give it to them. The public sector as a whole is already far too expensive to remain sustainable.

Perhaps the management should couch it this way--if you want 3%, here's how many jobs we'll be eliminating to cover the cost. How about 4%? This many jobs. On the other hand, if you settle for 2%, it's this many, and at 1.5%, we can (I'm assuming) afford to cut no one. Offer it over to the union and let them decide if they want fewer, higher paid workers/members or more who have less. At no point, however, am I willing to accept an absolute pay increase for the current number of employees. I, the taxpayer, can't afford it.
9/10/2011 9:47:28 AM
tbayguy1985 says:
They have their right to strike but for God's sake, leave the students out of it. They are just going to school to learn.

And shame on the instructors for crossing the line.
9/10/2011 10:09:33 AM
DougMyers says:
How would the instructors not crossing the picket lines leave the students out of it?????

9/12/2011 1:25:46 PM
laurie says:
"The colleges are offering 1.5 per cent in each of the first two years and 1.75 per cent in the third year."

Thats a lot better than 0% that I got on my last job..



9/10/2011 10:56:12 AM
potso says:
I am not a memeber of this union nor do I work for the college however, I do support what they are trying to do. This strike is not about wages. But unfortunately, the media won't report what the huge issue is because it's boring and would get little attention. Students - take a look at the picture used in this story. Look close, do you see it? There are 5 babyboomers in this picture who will be retiring in the next few years. Probably when many of you are completing your post-secondary education and entering the workforce. What the Ministry wants is to move full-time jobs down to part-time jobs. So once these people retire, they will fill the position with 2 people who won't be eligible for benefits, that due to work hours will not have more than a 15 minute break, that aren't eligible for holidays so will most likely not take time off to spend with their families and are more likely to have to have a second part-time job to make ends meet. Does this sound like the kind of Ontario you want to live in? I have huge concerns about this! So while we can all yell and scream at them to get back to work because they're just being greedy thinking it's the politically correct thing to do in this "economic climate", remember, that if the Ministry is successful in this, it sets a precedent making way for all employers to do the same thing. Way to go Ontario!
9/10/2011 11:01:19 AM
udecide says:
Enough is enough. These people are destroying the school year for the students. The picketers deserve zero respect now and when they return. Lets see a few layoffs and then maybe the workers will appreciate the jobs they do have. They say it is not over wages yet will not budge from a 3 per cent increase. Students do not roll down your windows , they do not deserve your time or respect.
9/10/2011 11:06:04 AM
ThunderBayVoice says:
I have worked at the same business in the education field for ten years. Recently my hours were cut in half.....I haven't had a raise since I was hired. There are no benefits. And there has been no lunch breaks even though I worked a seven hour day.

The economy is horrible. There are no jobs. These support workers are overpaid as it is. Now they are complaining that their annual raises are not big enough. I have no sympathy. They need to be grateful for what they have.
9/10/2011 11:28:56 AM
spooner19 says:
It's funny how union members always use the same old line, it's not about money? Oh really find a new line already that one is getting really old. Tired of these unions and there bully tactics it seems they brainwash there members into believing a bunch B.S. and that they are doing the right thing. Get back to work and grow up!
9/10/2011 5:25:46 PM
hounddog says:
There is a reason other then wages that we are on the picket line - JOB SECURITY. You complain we are impeding on the students ability to receive education so when they graduate they can get a job like ours. Well if we don't stand up and fight for job security and the elimination of full-time jobs, those students will not find a great job at Confederation College. Yes believe it or not we are not out on the lines for wages but something more important, good quality jobs in Thunder Bay and Ontario.
Those students are who we serve, we want to go back to work and continue to help them through every stage of their education.
Students understand, and these long annoying delays, i am a union member that has been on the line for the last week, we are respectful, we keep the lines moving and the students, staff are in the college within a reasonable time frame. What is disgusting is the ignorant individuals that come through, that flip us the bird, yell rude ignorant comments and purposely try to run us over with their vehicles.
Keep in mind we are your neighbours, daughters, sons, nieces, nephews, brothers, sisters , out there and deserve respect. Do unto others as you would have done unto you, shame on you if you think that behaviour is acceptable. You dont have to agree with our cause, but you do need to show us respect and be mindful of our safety.
9/10/2011 6:00:59 PM
ConfedStudent says:
As a student at confederation, I completely disagree with you. I have found your union members terribly rude when I cross the picket line to attend class. Not only do you rest against my vehicle but you also lean in and throw papers at me without my permission.

Just the other day I was forced to answer questions under the threat that if I didn't, I'd be held at the picket line.

When this is resolved, I'll remember how the support staff treated me.
9/10/2011 9:39:31 PM
picketer says:
That's upsetting, which entrance were you at and which time of day? I can pass along the message if someone is invading your space like that.
9/11/2011 11:42:33 AM
Dontlistentome says:
I you must be joking! Do you really believe your own propaganda?!? You are typically uneducated, lucky-to-be-working such good jobs in the first place. Where do get your sense of entitlement? So college grads can have good jobs at con college when.they graduate? Seriously, that's your message. First off, I don know why anyone would want to work with a bunch of rude, crabby, do the bare minimum, whiners that I know the majority of you are. Aside from some minor delays, it's funny the college is chugging along without you all. We are not that stupid...we know why people strike...get over it. This is YOUR fault, not the students, not the college management and certainly not the tax layers of Ontario. And to any striker here that wants to compare themselves to OPP officers that got raises - when you do more that sip coffee and treat students rudely - you migt then start to think about using.this as one of your arguments. Get a grip, times are tough everywhere.
9/12/2011 7:06:22 AM
hounddog says:
if you want to see us back to work, then sign the petition and encourage the employer to come back to the table. How can we negotiate a new collective agreement without that?

www.opseu.org
9/10/2011 6:02:40 PM
animiki says:
Are you willing, then, to accept a wage increase that is equal to or lower than inflation, to keep the aggregate cost reasonably affordable for taxpayers and students? Would you be willing to forgo ANY pay increase, or at least accept one significantly below inflation, if you received job security provisions that strengthen the opportunity for future workers to obtain full-time, rather than part-time, jobs? It's difficult to get reasoned answers to questions like this on the emotional pressure-cooker of a picket line, so perhaps this forum would allow for a more measured response to what I believe are vital questions. After all, they speak to the claim you are making that this isn't about wages...
9/11/2011 1:41:47 PM
sensfan says:
The union should wake up. You wont get the support of the students and the MPP's could care less about the strike in the middle of an election...especially since the students can go to class.

Lots of other unions work without a contact until one can be worked out but lets face it the union likes to hold the students hostage. I guess it makes them feel important.

So please do us all a favour get back to work because this dumb strike does no one any good.
9/10/2011 10:13:43 PM
reaalllyy!!?? says:
As a member of the union at Confederation College I must say that we don't want to be striking, we would rather be at work and that NOBODY wins when it gets to this...not the students, not the college, not the public and certainly not the economy with 8000 people on strike! Perhaps the time has come for all unions and management that when the 2 parties can't agree the show goes on and an arbitrator immediately intervenes to make a final decision! Does the public really think that workers choose to strike and put themselves and their families through emotional and financial hardships?!!
And lastly, the facts that the media reports are not always very accurate...so before you go judging go online to read the real facts!
9/10/2011 10:27:25 PM
bluebear1985 says:
I find the union vice-president's suggestion of students asking for part of their tuition back unacceptable. As a student myself, I did not enroll in college to limited services. It's already dangerous enough for me to have to cross the street to get from the bus stop to the campus. I worked in the cafeteria at Lakehead University last year and I had to cross every time I had to go to work while the medical school workers were striking. Also, I'm sure that students who are not from Thunder Bay don't appreciate it either. If workers were serious about getting something resolved, they would have someone picketing for more hours per day then they already do. There are still a couple of issues I need to settle with a support worker who is out picketing. For any of them that read this, please give students like myself a decent school year. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for us. Thank you.
9/11/2011 12:23:53 AM
Martha says:
I've had enough of this strike. I wait in the turning lane at Golf Links Rd for over 45 minutes everyday. I did not pay over $3000 for tuition to be late for my classes because im stuck outside having to deal with the picketers. This is completely unfair for students because its jeopardizing their learning experience because there outside for half their class. Everyday i burn at least half a tank of gas as well. If things do not get resolved soon I can guarantee things will start to get very messy outside with the students and the picketers. What a waste of money this school year has been for me so far.
9/11/2011 11:20:00 AM
Chaos says:
opp - 14.06% salary increase over four years.
9/11/2011 11:20:05 AM
Tiredofitall. says:
Here's a few points to consider (if you please)
1. Stop whining because you have a job you don't like. Didn't get a raise? fight for one or find a new job.
2. Not everything is about money. That job you're whining about in point #1? Well guess what? Your boss keeps getting richer while you're getting poorer. Wanna do something about it? Stand up for yourself.
3. I feel very badly that students are feeling the pain of the strike. But guess what? when you graduate, the same people that are cutting our job security will be cutting yours. You'll be out there some day too. Maybe I'll come by and hurl insults at you. Why shouldn't I?
4. Taxpayers dollars are wasted every day on worse things. Don't forget we just spent 1 million dollars on 2 rusty statues out on the waterfront.
9/11/2011 7:35:15 PM
hounddog says:
If you are a student and are frustrated with the delays there are two things you can do: 1) leave home earlier to avoid missing class and 2) visit www.opseu.org and fill out the petition to encourage the employer back to the table so we can negotiate a fair contract and return to work asap. For those of you experiencing a hard time while coming through the lines please let us know so that we can correct that. As someone who is currently on one of those lines i can honestly say the group i am out with are respectful of everyone coming through and if we slow you down or ask you to stop please do. We wont hold you up we just ask you to go slow for our safety.
We want to be back to work helping students with your school year. For those of you telling us to get back to work, please keep in mind that we dont enjoy being out, noone ever wants to be out on the line. WE are all hoping for a speedy settlement so we can get back to doing what we love, supporting the staff and students at the college.
9/11/2011 8:31:37 PM
jubjub says:
It's brutal how students get held hostage in these strike situations. Regardless of what side you are on, the students have paid good money to attend College and should not be delayed or inconvenienced. And if the College agrees to any increases, guess who is going to pay for it? It is sad how far the priorities of our educational institutions have strayed from student centric to business centric. I am waiting for the day that students go on strike and turn the tables.
9/12/2011 12:29:05 PM
my 2 cents says:
As a parttime student currently attending, and a fulltime employee (not at the college) with benefits, let me offer another side to the story. This will be directed to the people who currently have their health and the idea of invincibility.

5 years ago I required a surgery which has since left me with minimal mobility (mostly wheelchair bound). I was lucky enough to have a full time position with benefits which kept me from losing everything. I was off work for 3 years and was lucky to have a very supportive employer, who was able to find me a position that fit my new life. Now that my chance for advancement in my current field is limited, I have returned to college part time to work toward new employment.

Had I not been full time, I know I would lost everything. So I plead that people support the striking workers while they seek to maintain full time employment for future workers. I never thought it would happen to me either. There are issues here far more important than money.

9/12/2011 1:08:37 PM
GetReal says:
I love the way this union chose to leverage the students as a negotiation tactic.

Strike at the beginning of the school year...That should put the pressure on!

Ask students to demand refunds...oooo that should put the pressure on, too!

And hey - publicize this article....pressure pressure pressure.

All at the cost of the students...

People, please, be happy you're employed.

I'm all for good faith bargaining...but this is getting crazy.

Leave us students OUT OF THIS.

We get shafted hard enough with tuition fees and at the book store.

Sincerely yours,
Angry student
9/12/2011 2:03:06 PM
justaguy85 says:
I don't normally put my opinion in on these forums but enough is enough. Every time I turn around somebody is on strike. Job security, raises, hours, benifits it goes on and on.

I work full-time as a non-unionized employee. I don't make great money but it is decent. I am able to support my family which includes a wife and two kids. I have full drug and dental benefits, profit sharing, RRSP's and vaction time is negotiable(I've never been turned down).

Yes I started at the bottom but through hard and honest work my pay and "perks" of the job have been reflected through peaceful negotiations without refusing to work!
Do I want more? Of course I do. But you know what, I am happy where I am right simply because I am in control of my future. I will have a job tomorrow because I go in and do my job.

Any strikers that are out do not get my respect. Unions are a thing of the past, they have done their duty to set employment standards which I am thankful for that. But now there is a such thing as an employment standards act that protects employees.
9/12/2011 2:49:57 PM
The Beaver..... says:
The Union says all we want is job security well i want that as well...but i guess i am not a dreamer and they better wake up as well
9/12/2011 3:01:24 PM
hounddog says:
If you want us to go back to work complain to the people that are not willing to come back to the table to negotiate a fair contract so we can all get back to work. You may not understand our issues or support us, but someday down the road you might appreciate us taking a stand that will ultimately benefit your life in some instance, i.e your son or daughter graduating from the College and getting a fulltime job at Con College. WE dont enjoy being out there, we would rather be inside. In reference to the comment oh use the students as leverage , choose the first week of school to picket. Our collective agreement expires every three years on Aug.31, our union team was at the table till the last hours on the 31st willing to negotiate and it was management that left the table. Your complaints on here and about the picketers are being wasted, if you want to help out the students then support us and visit www.opseu.org and sign the petition to encourage the management team back to the table. So students can get on with their year and we can get back to work. Remember we cannot come back to work until management comes back to the table, the only party holding this up is management.
9/12/2011 5:21:40 PM
animiki says:
This is flawed logic. The strike is occurring because of the intransigence of two parties, not just one. Management says it is unwilling to negotiate until the union indicates that it is prepared to make some concessions. The union says it is prepared to return to the table at any time, but only under conditions management finds a non-starter. Both sides are issuing their requisite propaganda; the truth is somewhere in-between, as usual. So, if we're supposed to encourage management to return to bargaining, are you likewise prepared to make the concessions management says you aren't?

We, the taxpaying public, need more and better information than either side is offering, in order to make informed decisions. Meanwhile, our tax dollars continue to go to waste and students continue to suffer and neither side seems concerned with furthering anything but their own rhetoric and interests.

Are you surprised there's little public appetite to care about what either side has to say, and just that you work it out like rational adults...something NEITHER side seems prepared to do?
9/12/2011 10:46:56 PM
What about us Students says:
I'm Sorry but you want us to sign your petition and help you guys out when "Us" the students have to pay our own tuition or go into debt way before we even have an awesome education just to graduate and have to start paying back our OSAP. maybe us students should go on strike and then none of you guys would have a job ,or maybe instead of thinking about your own greed and how much money you want think about us students that pay your Wage!!!!
Help us then maybe we will help you
9/13/2011 12:50:41 AM
TIC says:
I am a student at the college and I have absolutely NO ISSUE with this strike and in fact I SUPPORT it. There are so many people on here bashing the hell out of the support staff for the college that have no clue what they are talking about. This union has tried to negotiate with management, who has decline and has also not even shown up to other scheduled meets. This strike is more about the losing of full time jobs then anything. Reason being it is cheaper on companies to hire more part time associates then full time. Everyday I go to class and guess what..... I have yet to be LATE. I decided to leave my house with enough time to get to the college and wait if I have to which in my opinion I though was just part of being a responsible student. Not one person on the picket line has been rude or treated me with any sort of disrespect. Oh and the longest I have had to wait yet was 10-15 minutes. If you think I am joking I suggest you take a drive down and go and talk to these folks.
9/14/2011 2:21:09 AM
confedstudent says:
If you are a student, I suggest you start to think like one, ie: critically.

Take the time to review the expired contract and compare it with the amendments that OPSEU is trying to make. Do you really think the only issue is part time vs. full time employment? What they want is unreasonable and frankly, the colleges cannot afford it.

Also, management will not sit with OPSEU until OPSEU is willing to negotiate. As it stands, OPSEU will not budge from their demands.

And finally, OPSEU strikers have been told to make the wait times even longer to get their message across. This morning I waited exactly 23 minutes before clearing the line.

OPSEU for the lose.
9/14/2011 4:07:44 PM
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