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2012-02-01 at 14:27

The debt list

By tbnewswatch.com
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The financial situation at Terrace Bay Pulp has become clearer. 

An eight-page list of creditors has been posted by the CCAA monitor, Ernst and Young. 

The largest creditor on the list is the Ontario government through the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines, which is owed in more than $24-million.

Another $41.4 million dollars Canadian is owed to companies right across the country. The overwhelming majority of the money owed by Terrace Bay Pulp is to businesses in Thunder Bay and along the north shore. 

A number of operations in the city are owed hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

The pulp mill also owes another U.S.$1.5-million to companies based in the United States. 

Not included on the list is the Municipality of Terrace Bay, which is owed more than $500,000 in back taxes. 

The mill entered CCAA creditor protection on Jan. 25.

 

(Thunder Bay Television)

 

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Comments

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yqtyqt says:
Well done provincial government. Dalton, Mikie and Billie should stage a photo-op with all the rest of the creditors for this event. save it for the next election campaign.

If you add up all the provincial money blown (out the wassoo) on failed corporate bailouts and handouts, the new multi-purpose facility could have been built by now.

What a waste of money.

Now, if we compare to this waste to the money that the city is proposing for tax increases, then commisso looks like a genius. He should look a lot larger if he wants to be up there with Billie and Mikie when it comes to wasting money.
2/1/2012 2:47:01 PM
goodguy says:
i know lets give bucky another 20 or so million,,wonder why he travel's with body guards
2/1/2012 2:48:33 PM
arjay says:
YEAH, AND SO??????????
2/1/2012 2:50:10 PM
hillbilly says:
Arjay what are you talking about if you are unable to articulate a response do not just take up space.
2/1/2012 4:01:19 PM
passlake says:
in a related story:

"Area mill workers get _______ again"
2/1/2012 3:14:51 PM
Fluffy says:
What a gigantic waste of money. Maybe Dalton should send an auditor up there to find out where the cash went. Maybe a Swiss bank account.
2/1/2012 3:34:11 PM
The Wolf says:
WOW, simply put WOW.
2/1/2012 3:45:56 PM
pbourg says:
We He did have a proven track record ask anyone who worked for the man. Money first employees second. As for creditor if they were screwed the last time it should have been cash only.
2/1/2012 4:25:30 PM
nvjgu says:
They didn't even pay the tax of the city they were operating in," Nice.
2/1/2012 4:57:33 PM
nvjgu says:
Maan ," Right now im glad when I was younger I never got a job in anyof those places.
2/1/2012 5:01:00 PM
gone for good says:
Yeah, whatever.
We got it the first 20 times you made that statment. Getting old. Find a hobby.
2/1/2012 6:21:48 PM
paddlenut says:
If the government hadn't stepped in to help the company remain viable, there would be no shortage of criticism for its inaction to help the forestry industry, protect jobs, blah blah...can't have it both ways people. Certainly a crappy investment though.
2/1/2012 6:56:43 PM
SomeGuy says:
The company was never viable, if the company was viable then it would not be in the same situation it was 2-3 years ago.
2/3/2012 10:51:06 AM
The Beaver..... says:
anybody seen Lorie lately ..?????
2/1/2012 6:57:13 PM
jimmyboy says:
Just in case any are interested...4 days ago Resolute Paper in Fort Frances has cut 45 full jobs from their operation...that represents 16% of the workforce there.(formely Abitibi-Bowater) what could be in store for their Thunder Bay operations is the burning question.???
2/1/2012 7:27:58 PM
CityHawke says:
"Turn out the lights the party's over they say that all good things must end
Let's call it a night the party's over and tomorrow starts the same old thing again."
2/1/2012 7:40:46 PM
noront says:
I wonder where all the jobbers sit, or don't sit, on this list. Some of the ones I know of say they are owed in the range of $100,000-$150,000 for wood that has beed cut.
2/1/2012 9:32:09 PM
canrebel53 says:
Guaranteed half the companies that are owed money are other numbered companies owned by Bucky. It's time the Government stepped in and seized all his assets, personal and business. And stop him from operating any company in this Country again.
2/1/2012 10:22:59 PM
jitters says:
why did I have a feeling this would happen? I think its because he has friends in Queens Park who will back him financially and then do nothing to get us taxpayers our money back. I believe we should never have backed bucky after his first bankrupcy. In my opinion his assets should be frozen and sold to cover all these debts. From observation and past work ethics I say he has proven to be an unscrupulous businessman.
2/1/2012 11:35:16 PM
trevor99 says:
On the surface this does not look good but to get a bit deeper. 350 guys worked for a period of time. I don't know what the payroll is. Some suppliers must have got paid for something. I am interested to find out why the money from the gov't just went there without any kind of guarantee. Maybe there is. We will see as this story gets bigger.

On the broader topic, what is this gov't to do. They get blasted for not doing enough and now blasted for doing something. It is not a defence of the action, but rather what is the appropriate response to this failing industry. NDP would likely want billions to support, Conservatives little if nothing to support and the Feds have done little. What is the answer to sell a product few want.

I don't know what the answer is and listening to this story over the past 20 years in this region, no one knows the answer. Forestry jobs have been disappearing for decades. It may be an industry that is not able to be saved. I just don't know. Anyone?
2/1/2012 11:35:32 PM
homelessteen says:
Thanks for the link. You just gave me a great idea for aquiring supply chain information.
2/2/2012 3:35:53 PM
waiting says:
I would be interested in seeing a list of WHO he paid on 2011
2/2/2012 9:35:53 AM
metisman says:
The province bailed them out on the promise that they would provide long term employment. Sounded like a good idea to everyone including the residents of Terrace Bay. However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and unfortunately the residents of Terrace Bay and even Mike Gravelle are gonna take the hit on this one....so why isn't Mr Buchanan being charged for fraud as its evident that he intentionally screwed everyone..
2/2/2012 10:27:43 AM
Delbert Grady says:
The more things government spend our money on, the worse off we all get.

Our politicians have no business supporting companys like this one, or any one for that matter.

They need to create an environment thats favourable for businesses to thrive within. Then we get jobs.

Doing it the other way around is nothing but guaranteed failure.

We will only prevent things like this when we let the beauty of capitalism thrive. Its like self-levelling cement.

It builds a nice foundation for a country to be built upon, and the peaks and valleys are minimized by it.

When government throws a big rock into that cement, they just create bigger peaks and valleys which are impossible to build a level and balanced economy upon.


2/2/2012 11:06:34 AM
panzerIV says:
So you don't believe that if the government gives a company a form of payment (loans, grant or subsidy) that its beneficial?

TBRRI asked for 5 million from the city to build a research institute here. They used that money to flip it and attract other investment. We now have 3 new companies practicing in Thunder Bay, including Tornado medical that likely wouldn't be here without that investment.

The Ontario government gave Toyota a subsidy to build the new electric Rav-4 in there woodstock plant. The plant added another shift to build the vehicle. Adding over 500 jobs to the plant and the ontario tax base.

I agree, don't blindly throw money around but if the chance is there to make an investment take it. Sometimes you lose and sometimes you win.
2/2/2012 2:02:22 PM
Delbert Grady says:
Banks provide loans. Investment firms invest.

Governments govern.

Got it?

When government oversteps its bounds and favours one company or industry over another, we all suffer.

I guess your little socialist needy types dont understand that, do they?

and hows those electric car sales doing?

Government has nothing to give. Its taking from us to buy voters. They call them jobs, but its really votes they want. Dolton's continous sucking up to the unions should be great evidence of that.

If these were viable industrys they wouldnt need external support. And if they did, private investors would be all over it.

Now run along to your NDP milk and cookie party. Dont worry, theyve got plenty of sippy cups for their guests.
2/2/2012 4:29:53 PM
anvil of crom says:
Delbert the economic model that is failing these days IS capitalism !
Look south of the border, wall street bailout, and still house foreclosures/ rising debt. USA: a rampant failure.
The eurozone, a socialist form of capitalism...on the brink of a lack of capital and implosion.
Pure communism, China, is doing great. Not russia,they lost in the arms race.
Delb,the religion/culture of china, is wealth as a result of productivity and profit. And at times its at any cost.
In China pesky governent oversight in things like labour laws, health and safety regulations, benefits and pension, cost ..
ahhh so pesky!! these things do interfere with profit you know.
but make no mistake the chinese government subsidizes big time eg: flooding the world market on solar panels has killed USA firms.
Rarely we are reminded of the chinese effect, lead in childrens toys, melamine in milk,imported to north america so we can enjoy lots of cheap crap, and get poisoned.
Capilalism: FAIL
2/2/2012 3:11:27 PM
Delbert Grady says:
All those examples you give are because of governments adapting socialism.

Capitalism isnt bailing out wall st. banks or auto companys.

It isnt mandating fannie and freddie give out affirmative action home mortgages.

The eurozone is pure socialism. Capitalism was long since abandoned because people decided to vote whatever labour party promised them the most laziness and handouts they could.

Capitalism built the USA and Canada. Its only begun to collapse since socialists like you got lazier and lazier.

China prospers because they can sell their goods to a bunch of whiners who are too busy watching the "big game" instead of working for a living.

China also doesnt invent, nor create a single thing. They dont honour copyright laws and produce cheap knock-offs of anything good that dummys will buy.

They also prosper by manipulating the Yen to keep trade balances in their favour, which completely undermines western economys and trade partners.

and you cheer them on?
2/2/2012 10:58:17 PM
homelessteen says:
You forgot the fact they have had a 3000 year head start over the US and Canada.
2/3/2012 9:34:43 PM
anvil of crom says:
Delb, can i call you that? delbert just sounds so....well you know, hey how bout just D.
D read your comment, we arent so far off in our views, you basically confirmed my point. What you said about china is completely true. One could argue china is the most capitalist country out there, in the terms that "it encourages economic growth", its own that is!.
But, how they do it is irrelevant to my argument that they are wildy sucessfull, like it or not! Its doesnt have to be an emotional issue. There methods are sucessfull , and the countries that dont like it dont seem to be able to do much about it.
Speaking of lazy, which you cant be, as you seem to be working your legs out jumping to conclusions, how was I exactly cheering them on?

Instead of jumping to conclusions insulting me,and wearing those legs through overuse out why dont we go for a 5 mile run, or to the gym, i do it almost everyday..
lazy yeah..LOL
2/5/2012 12:01:24 AM
Random says:
China prospers because of cheap, almost slave like labour. Just like the States did 200 years ago. Thats how power house countries are built. You can even go as far back as ancient Egypt. Canada had it's great railway built on the backs of Chinese labour.
Capitalism is great, but not the way it is currently being practiced. Greed is the new law of the land down south, pure and simple, and the billionaires have brainwashed eveyone into believing their b.s dream of everyone making it, and it being ok for the top 1% to own it all.
Bail out the banks? What for...they are useless, but the automakers...they paid all that money back with interest ahead of time, and kept thousands employed, unlike greedy capitalist banks.
I'm 100% capitalist with maybe a small sprinkle of social safety nets tossed in, but I definately don't support this current model...it is broken.
2/6/2012 9:02:45 AM
homelessteen says:
I have to say this is very unfortunate for the town and workers of Terrace Bay I feel for all your families.
The reason "Bucky" is not liable for his personal assets is because the company is a corporation which is considered a seperate legal entity (a different person in the eyes of the courts)and has a limited liability for debt only equal to what the corporation has in assests.
Some would say this is not fair but it is the same for everyone who registers a business. You have three options 1 a sole proprietorship, 2 a partnership, 3 a corporation.
I agree I can't understand how he got another kick at this cat.
The article last week had a president with a different name than Buchanan is "Bucky" still even part of this company? If he is he should have been made to leave before anymore aid was given from the government.
2/2/2012 3:17:16 PM
Dontlistentome says:
...and now I find myself in total agreement with you.

I also believe that Buchanan Sales Inc. has a board of directors responsible. I don't say this to let anyone off the hook, but there is a big difference between a single person being blamed at this point, when business is decided as a collective.
2/3/2012 8:15:33 AM
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