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2012-02-06 at 21:01

Traffic stop

By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch staff
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MacIntyre Coun. Trevor Giertuga took a step closer to eliminating truck traffic along Dawson Road.

Council on Monday unanimously passed Giertuga's resolution calling for a length restriction on vehicles traveling on the municipal portion of the roadway, which truckers have used for years to cut time off their travels through the city.

Should the bylaw pass, the city would then turn to the province seeking permission to put signage on Highway 11/17 indicating the restrictions are in place. Ministry of Transportation officials have indicated current regulations do not allow for signs that restrict traffic to be placed on provincial roadways.

Giertuga said the emphasis has to be on safety, and exemptions for local deliveries have been worked into his bylaw request.

"It's not the local businesses that are causing the problem," Giertuga said. "Those aren't the people who are tailgating. Those aren't the people who are speeding. Those aren't the people who are driving recklessly because those people have families in Thunder Bay."

According to figures provided at the meeting, truckers represent 10 per cent of the traffic, but 26 per cent of the accidents. The report also argued it forcilby diverting trucks to the Shabaqua Extension would cost the industry upward of $2 million a year, though some councillors argued the winding roadway on Highway 102 vastly cuts into any savings and time the shortened route provides.

Vince Rutter, who said he's got 2,000 names on a petition demanding the city do something to limit truck traffic on the road, whose easternmost portion is owned and maintained by the municipality.

He said he was encouraged by the overwhelming support for the idea.

"We feel good about it. We feel it's certainly a step closer to our goal. It still represents a delay in reaching the goal of moving those trucks off, but it's the best we can do right now and I think it will eventually lead to a positive result," Rutter said.

Nikos Mantis, who presented alongside Rutter called it a positive result and noted he believes it will be hard for the province to say no to the city's request for signage should the restrictions be put in place.

"It's obvious it's the right thing to do," Mantis said. "It's the safer alternative and I think it's a big step forward for our community," Mantis said.

"I do believe one way or another, the city will find an option to divert traffic from Dawson Road and I'm very optimistic that we're taking the steps in the right direction."

Under current provincial laws, the city can ask the province to place signs on MTO property that indicate a preference that truck traffic be redirected to the Shabaqua Extension, but Coun. Larry Hebert said there are no guarantees truckers will follow suit, asking the deputation their thoughts.

"It's not going to be an easy solution," Hebert said. "Do you really believe a lot of the traffic would be transferred from Highway 102 to the Shabaqua Extension?

"Certainly permissive signs have a more positive feel and would do a better job for the city," Rutter replied.

Coun. Aldo Ruberto suggested the city could go ahead, with or without the province's co-operation.

"Can we not just build a turnaround where our city limits are?" he asked. "If (the signage) doesn't happen for some reason, we still have the option of doing something else that will provide safety."

City engineer Pat Mauro indicated he would prefer a weight restriction rather than a length restriction, which he maintained would be easier for police to enforce, though in order to fine scofflaws, would require an escorted trip through town to the city's Egan Street scales.

A report is expected to be brought back before council later this year.

Follow Leith Dunick on Twitter: @LeithDunick

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Tbnewswatch.com(96)

Comments

We've improved our comment system.
ranma says:
Why is it in this country we treat truckers like garbage? They are the ones who bring you your groceries, your new tv, your cars, basically ANYTHING you want to buy. Yet we keep telling them they are not wanted, we do not provide them with rest stops, and we pass laws like this one to limit their routes.

If things are so bad along this side of the road, why don't the OPP and the city police sit there and nail all these horrible drivers and get their quota for the month in a week? Oh wait that would take them away from all the awesome crime fighting they are doing. Some truckers may be jerks, but there are better ways to make things safe.
2/6/2012 9:18:24 PM
TBDR says:
I don't have an opinion on this either way, but I think you are being a bit overdramatic. Like Garbage? Asking them to use a different road is hardly abusive.
2/7/2012 12:34:09 AM
sandstorm says:
I myself, along with many other people HAVE complained and called the cops about the traffic and these trucks running red lights... I have yet to see any difference. No cops watching. It's pointless.. I fully agrree with this story and hope this bylaw gets passed. I don't like the chances of a Semi running a red light hitting me on my way to work.
2/7/2012 1:24:38 PM
Sui Generis says:
Let me guess. You were a truck driver? You're being incredibly defensive over simply asking them to use a different route, so it's a safe assumption.

I have plenty of drivers in my family. None of them seem to think this is unrealistic. Of course, these are also not the drivers who pop pills to drive a few extra hours, fudge their logs, etc. Seems the safe drivers understand the need for community and public safety.
2/7/2012 2:18:16 PM
Common cents says:
Seems the safe drivers understand the need for community and public safety?????

Honestly?? What makes you think the people of Oliver Paipoonge or Kakabeka dont care about thier public safety?

All yous are trying to do is move your problems from your front yard to someone else's.
What you said makes no sense at all. Think about it!!!!

If you dont like where you live, move its that simple.

This is a complete waste of tax payers money.

Get on the phone people call your councilors and MP's dont just write about it here.
2/7/2012 5:03:51 PM
illuminati_nation says:
I can't Imagine forcing transport trucks to take a highway, which cost millions to build, that was actually designed to accommodate truck traffic! That would be ridiculous! Instead, we should continue to allow large trucks to take a local route through a residential neighbourhood and clog traffic, run red lights, tailgate and speed, all while chewing up Dawson Rd (which cost the city to repair by the way).

I've been reading some pretty asinine arguments against this proposal, that it's is a waste of "tax" money. Kind of like spending millions on an extension highway for trucks that don't use it?

The issue isn't police enforcement; it's getting the trucks to take a route that was intended for them in the first place. THE PROBLEM is that no one on city council had the foresight to think of this and work out the traffic logistics before, during, or directly after the extension was built!
2/7/2012 8:04:58 PM
wayne says:
"A report is expected to be brought back before council later this year." I suppose another consultant will be hired to work on that report.
2/6/2012 9:18:31 PM
CountryGuy says:
So building a turnaround before city limits would do what? Add extra time and mileage for the truckers, would cause an even worse and more dangerous area for the truckers who have to turn around and then get back onto the highway, and then they'll be going along that same stretch of highway twice! Did the Council not think about that? Do the people of Ware Township, Oliver Paipoonge and Kaministiqua not count as people too? Now these trucks will be going by their homes twice. The highway is a provincial highway and truckers have the right to use it. If you don't like it, then move away from the highway. Simple as that.
2/6/2012 11:09:46 PM
Wolfie says:
The simple solution to this would be for the province to allow the sign informing truckers of the ban to be posted before the Dawson Road turnoff.

Even if they don't, these truckers won't make the same mistake twice.
2/7/2012 8:51:14 AM
tannharr says:
Yes, the highway is a provincial highway, and truckers DO have the right to use it. However, once you reach city limits, it is no longer a highway, and is Dawson Road, which is owned by the City of Thunder Bay, therefore, the city has the rights to impose traffic laws.
2/7/2012 4:05:22 PM
tannharr says:
Yes, the highway is a provincial highway, and truckers DO have the right to use it. However, once you reach city limits, it is no longer a highway, and is Dawson Road, which is owned by the City of Thunder Bay, therefore, the city has the rights to impose traffic laws.
2/7/2012 4:09:09 PM
maxumpat says:

Moving the truck traffic to a different road will only create problems at a different intersection. Wonder if we will be paying "overtime" to police this great idea.

If there are problems with the truck traffic on Dawson Rd, there are already traffic laws in place......ENFORCE THE LAWS THAT ALREADY EXIST!

We should not be wasting time on this issue.

2/6/2012 11:37:50 PM
Kidknapp says:
Justt wait until they are tailgating and holding up traffic on the expressway!! I see accidents happening lots at John and at Oliver!
Thanks Trevor! Another blunder to be by council!
2/6/2012 11:46:54 PM
ring of fire dude says:
Get ready to clean up the blood and gore at the Oliver,John and Red River Road intersections.We all know its coming .
2/7/2012 12:06:24 AM
grs says:
No kidding. As it stands now the trucks must stop at the intersection of Red River Road and the expressway. Balsam represents the only set of lights that the trucks will face travelling at 90 to 100 km/h without an overpass, least of all any warning lights (in one direction anyway). I regularly use that intersection and treat it like a 4 way stop when the light is green to cross the expressway, ie, look both ways for traffic. It's a regular occurence to see a transport blow the red or lock up their tires and finally stop part way into the intersection because they couldn't stop in time. Now you're just going to have the same thing at Oliver, John, and Red River. The latter two also represent A LOT more pedestrian traffic than Balsam street intersection.
2/7/2012 8:55:39 AM
JustSaying... says:
So, let's say I own a house near a lake. I guess I can approach City Council about stopping people with boats and seadoos... I don't want them going by my place. I'm too afraid to go swimming. After all, it is a safety issue... so many speeders...
Hey! If I chose to build or buy a house there, it's my problem...

AND... why are some people in Thunder Bay so against others who are trying to make a living???

AND... What is considered to be a local business? Do we allow only the large trucking companies with a terminal in the city to use Dawson Road??? What if the driver is from Thunder Bay but the company he works for isn't???

2/7/2012 1:00:04 AM
scott says:
"Giertuga said the emphasis has to be on safety". What about all the CARNAGE thats going to happen a Oliver, John and Red River Road intersections ?
2/7/2012 1:13:18 AM
TBDR says:
In fairness... there won't be. Those routes take longer than the 11/17 do.
2/7/2012 5:49:33 PM
scott says:
WHAT are you talking about???
2/8/2012 12:58:42 AM
TBDR says:
Sorry I meant to respond to a different comment... hit reply on the wrong one.
2/8/2012 9:35:48 AM
alarmforce says:
Now I know why I didn't vote for Giertuga in the last election and certainly wouldn't recommend or vote for him in the future.
Now what does this mean to locals like myself from the north end of the city? Do I have to drive to the south end of the city then out to Kakabecka Falls to get to Ignace, Upsala, Quetico, Dryden and Kenora with my pickup, RV & boat attached which are as long as most transports?
Give your head a shake Giertuga and the rest of your crone's!!
2/7/2012 1:30:24 AM
ConcernedDenizen says:
Make possibly tired truckers drive further than they have to in the name of safety. Divert them through the village of Kakabeka Falls with its school crossing and reduced speed. Run them through 4 to 8 intersections instead of 3. Take a problem over here, and move it over there.

I suppose it could be good if a couple truck stops closer to that route get some more traffic though.
2/7/2012 2:40:07 AM
Tbaylifer says:
Good job. Next get the province to put up warning lites at Red River, John and Oliver intersections or better yet clover leaf intersections, like the one that should have been put at Red River and the Express Way 30 years ago. remember the 10 homes the city bought for this at the Red River intersection? Safety First.
2/7/2012 6:55:33 AM
loring says:
must be some rich influential people that live on dawson road you can buy anything with the right amount of money
2/7/2012 7:12:58 AM
RelaxinginMurillo says:
John St and Red River Rd are at least "level" crossings.. Oliver is on a grade. If this passes, I would really like to see some advance warning lights on the southbound lanes approaching Oliver.
It takes these trucks a while to stop on a grade, and Im afraid more than a few drivers might choose to just run the yellow/red/+
2/7/2012 7:18:06 AM
shake'n'myhead says:
What ever you do, don't use weight as your restrictive measure. That will put the screws to some of the local gravel haulers. I must say I agree with ring of fire in that there is going to be a few fatalities at 3 intersections. With all the fantastic upgrades done to the express way over the past couple of years some wiener in the planning department forgot to add the $500.00 it would have taken to install advanced warning lights.
Nope, we will have to endure some more summer time delays as they dig up a section of highway and install some underground wire and sensor pads.
A few home owners will be glad while a few will mourn the loss of those who die in the accidents to come. Pretty poor trade if you ask me.
2/7/2012 7:21:10 AM
realistic1 says:
Truck and vehicular traffic along Oliver Rd. near the expressway travels in excess of 90km/h even though the posted limit is 80km/h. This area is getting very built up and it's time to lower the speed limit to 60km/h and or limit truck traffic here too.
2/7/2012 7:47:38 AM
hadenough says:
Maybe you should look at the traffic signs next time you travel that route, speed changes to 70kph from 80 at Lydia then changes to 60 just past Hazelwood. Been that way for years.
Of course if you're just making it up to support your arguement.......
I travel that way everyday, truck traffic is rarely an issue, it's the soccer moms in a rush with their SUVs and rednecks in the jacked up pickups on their way out of town that are the real hazards. Special needs people, mostly their own.
2/7/2012 3:35:30 PM
imhere says:
Another way for the city to up the costs here. If it's costing the industry that much more a year, guess who will be paying for it when we go to the stores?

I don't understand how they want the big truck traffic off Dawson but it's ok to run it right through Kakabeka. I would think it is safer to run it down Dawson. And the 26 percent of accidents - how many are actually caused by the truckers and not regular vehicles? I know many, many truckers that will stop when they feel the need to and don't fudge their log books so they can go a little farther - they are safer drivers than most of the people you see driving around the city.
2/7/2012 8:12:40 AM
eddylives says:
It will be interesting to see how accidents will change with no trucks to slow them down lmao.(everyone seems to be in a big rush)
I have traveled this stretch of road in log trucks many times and could not believe the antics of people in passenger vehicles.
Verging on near suicidal actions lol.
So many people just dont have a clue when it comes to driving safe.
It seems they feel they own the road and drive as such with tragic results on occasion.
From what I have witnessed the majority of truck accidents are the result of passenger vehicles in a rush , regardless of the charges layed.
2/7/2012 8:21:52 AM
hahawhatajoke says:
What nonsense!!!! You are going to ban truckers off a provincial highway? Really? Come on! What makes this highway unsafe is not the truckers. It is the narrow road, the numerous corners, and the total lack of any passing lanes (only one on the whole highway). This makes impatient drivers attempt to pass, and take chances (due to their inpatience following these truckers) where they normally would not. So now you have trucker drivers, who are on generally tight deadlines, being paid by the mile, and you are going to reroute them to a highway that will take over twice as long to get through the city? Council what you are about to create is truckers who are now going to be rushing to get through this other highway to make up for lost time. Thus creating very hazardous driving conditions on other roads. Welcome to Ontario, and the City of Thunder Bay...the bylaw Capital of the World!!!!!
2/7/2012 8:25:41 AM
jimmyboy says:
I was kinda hoping Geirtuga would take a few more step's closer to the exit door actually,
and when has any petition brought to the city mattered...this one has 2,000 names...the one against the present development at the waterfront had 7,000 on it.!!

Only...Aldo Ruberto would suggest the city could go ahead, with or without the province's co-operation...he is the biggest boob in the place at any given time...I mean really what an asinine statement to make in public.!
2/7/2012 8:30:11 AM
Optimus Pine says:
Giertuga wants traffic off the 102 and on to the extension. Ryholm wants logging trucks off Arthur and on to the extension. If they get their way, the extension is going to be a scary place with all those trucks.
Wouldn't it just be easier to do some traffic enforcement on the 102? Photo-radar maybe?
2/7/2012 8:30:54 AM
hadenough says:
I watched the meeting last night and it seemed pretty obvious that special interest groups had the ear of council.
They had some points about things like the school and childrens safety and then blamed trucks for everything bad that could happen.

Rydholm came out of her perpetual daze long enough to jump on the band wagon that if trucks get blocked on Dawson, then trucks should get blocked on West Arthur as well.

The end result will be longer delays on the "Expressway" and more high speed accidents there as well.
Hopefully the province has eyes on the bigger picture and tells the City that they are not playing the blame game and to get out and enforce the existing traffic laws to all vehicles on Dawson rather than creating another problem somewhere else.
2/7/2012 8:48:59 AM
anda says:
isn't there a weight station on dawson rd? i thought they had to use that station if they were coming through the city.
2/7/2012 9:02:22 AM
oldengineoil says:
I am in support of diverting heavy trucks away from Highway 102 but the notion that heavy commercial trucks make up a large portion law violators on highway 102 and Dawson Road makes for a week arguement. Anyone that travels the eastern stretch of the 102 knows that local passenger traffic is the root of most traffic law violations. Speeding is the most common, but my nemesis is being overtaken in the turning lanes near Five Mile School while already exceeding the 70 kph speed limit. I recall a couple months ago seeing a fellow in a pick-up stopped by the OPP near Cousins. I recognized the guy as one of the loudest voices on the truck issue at a Ward Meeting. Folks, lets lead by example and start becoming part of the solution, not the problem. I'm tired of "locals" feeling the right to maintain 90 kph in the 70 kph zone then point their finger at the commercial traffic for being unsafe.
2/7/2012 9:10:00 AM
shake'n'myhead says:
You couldn't have said it any better.
2/7/2012 3:54:04 PM
Yer joking says:
I drive that highway every day and I get tailgated by alot more"local" vehicles than out of area vehicles. I think a lttle more enforcement in the 70kmh zone would do some good. Although it would probably upset the fine upstanding homeowners who are harrassed by those evil truckers.
2/7/2012 9:16:03 AM
ibrando says:
Keep The Reports Coming Guys!
Tbnewswatch.com

2/7/2012 9:31:19 AM
Random says:
This is laughable. Good luck enforcing that even if the province permits the signage. The first bylaw charge would be fought and won in court, and that would be the end of it.
This ridiculas "cave in" by our council to the loud few will be another reason our city remains a joke to the rest of the country.
Our police will now be delegated to run enforcement for that, because some councillor will demand it (some weird reason they get treated like royalty), will lay a bunch of bylaw charges, and 6 months down the road will be tied up in court all day defending their charge, only to lose it.
Maxumpat hit the nail right on the head...there are already traffic laws in place there, enforce those first.
What a joke.
2/7/2012 9:36:59 AM
gone for good says:
How about avoiding Bummer Bay all together.
There, problem solved.
Now all the whiners can go to Winnipeg for shopping.
2/7/2012 9:41:13 AM
Arch Stanton says:
Sorry, but I have driven Dawson Rd several times each week for the last 8 years and have yet to see a problem caused by a long-distance trucker.

The real issue up there is the QUARRY TRUCKS operating from Dog Lake Rd. They tear around corners at 110 km/h and tailgate at every opportunity.... their drivers must be paid on a 'per delivery' basis.
2/7/2012 9:46:33 AM
RAM501 says:
I’m not a truck driver, but I do know we need them to get our goods and to keep the Canadian economy going. We should be doing everything we can to support them with simple safe routing from point A to B. Restricting seems counterproductive to me. I would…

- consult with the truckers to see what they have to say and give them voice in this process
- install a sign for west bound traffic before the turn at Dawson/102 that points straight through for Kenora, Winnipeg, etc
- reduce the speed of Dawson Rd. to 60kph further west, then only increase the last part of 102 to 80 not 90.

If we make the Shabaqua Extension a more favorable route some will choose it, splitting the traffic volume.
2/7/2012 9:55:41 AM
CyberDude says:
Move the truckers away from the shortest route, and direct them through bussy, small streets of Kakabeka. Lets see what thos people think of us.
2/7/2012 9:57:22 AM
TBDR says:
I don't know where to start... first of all by bussy, I can only assume you mean busy... secondly, the "ONE" street you would need to drive on... is less busy than the rest of the highway because its 4 lanes. Going through Kakabeka at the speed limit takes all of about 2 minutes.

If you are going to make up fake arguments, at least make them sound legit.
2/7/2012 5:58:08 PM
shakinmyhead says:
I agree with safty and don t want to see anyone get hurt but aren't there already laws in place to stop all the reckless drivers that council is talking about.The same police that are supposed to enforce the new laws should be out there enforcing the ones already in place .Whats next when people between twin city crossroads and kakabeca don't want trucks do they get banned there too.As for no saving's on dawson i quess none of the council has ever seen all the long grades on the hwy out by kakabeca another special interest group knee jerk decision
2/7/2012 10:04:29 AM
cac says:
When you buy a house on a highway, then expect highway traffic! If you don't like it, then move. Don't expect everything to change because you are unhappy and don't feel safe. You are the one who should be expected to make the change not everyone else!
2/7/2012 10:28:21 AM
whynot says:
Of course, it makes perfect sense to move them from a 70km/h 4-lane highway to a 90km/h 2 lane hwy (Shabaqua Ext). That will be MUCH safer... What a joke.
2/7/2012 10:37:06 AM
stopthehandouts says:
Giertuga youve just lost another vote, complete nonsense! As all ready said many times, moving truck traffic to another roadway does not solve a thing! The added distance only adds more expense on fuel and more pollution.

Mr. Mantis and Rutter, the highway was there long before you....maybee its time you move...wait maybee that will require a truck..
2/7/2012 10:53:56 AM
unknowncronic says:
@TBDR:
So after years of driving one route to your front door, your now forced to take another route that takes 10 mins more.... Now what? you would put up a fight, wouldnt you?
Taking this issue & moving it, dosent solve anything, it just keeps Gertuga quiet until something else bothers him in his sector...
2/7/2012 11:20:07 AM
tb user says:
Is the 102 not the city bypass to eastern Ontario, instead of redirecting traffic should they not have spent a few dollars on this portion of the roadway to make it safer, 4 lane hwy, passing lane or wait another bypass like the one they just built or is it easier to send the trouble to the bypass they just built where in a few years we can have the same conversation.
2/7/2012 11:22:10 AM
Joey Joe Joe Jr. Shabadoo says:
Curious why the Ministry would have a weigt station on that road then? So besides Gertuga complaining, it will take away jobs at the weigh station! Obviously the Government will LOL @ Gertuga & say too bad, stop wasting time & money on issues like this...
2/7/2012 11:23:38 AM
spooner19 says:
Oh wait lets get the off Dawson, so now there will be more trucks using the hwy i use every day. I guess my safety does not count right? Morons!
2/7/2012 11:32:44 AM
DougMyers says:
FWIW
I live on the others side of town harldy ever, if at all, use Dawson.
However I see this as a positive move and do not understand all the whiners calling the locals whiners.

The difference in distance/time for truckers is minimal (minutes) and the new highway has no houses on it. Those that would complain of increased truck traffic can switch to the other roadways that surround it.
As for buying on a highway arguement. Get serious and think for a minute! It is not jsut people that live on that highway but those that need it for access to town. Lets not forget the school on this highway as well.

Stop and think before you spout off about how bad this is. I see many positives with this move and fully support the idea.

Most of the arguements against on here are ridiculus and lack thought or substance.

You argue as if Thunder Bay is the first city to ask truck traffic to take a different route as the city grows.
2/7/2012 11:49:33 AM
imhere says:
It's funny you bring up the schools. Did you forget that KB has a school on the highway there as well? The trucks will be forced through many homes as well as KB. There are long stretches on HWY 102 that have no homes as well that these trucks go down.

You should really stop and think before you spout off and as long as they won't be in your backyard of course you see so many positives - it has the same negatives though for the people who will be living where the trucks will go.

Your arguments are quite lacking of thought or substance as well. Before you start putting other people down for their thoughts and opinions - in this free country - make sure you look into things as well. Or like I said, maybe the school on the highway you want the trucks to go down doesn't matter. Everyone ran out the new truck stop so why wouldn't the trucks use the by-pass down 102?
2/7/2012 1:07:53 PM
DougMyers says:
Well first off, had you read my post and not just skimmed, I DO NOT LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR THIS AREA!

Second, KB school is in a 50kph zone within a well established and strongly policed community.

Third I was speaking to the people strongly contesting this idea with no constructive ideas. They simply state that it is a bad idea or run down someone for thinking it. Others state issues that are truely non-issues. That adds nothing to the conversation.

Since you asked:

1. The new highway has large ditches for catchment when/if a spill occurs (major as in a tanker spill or minor as in fuel tank leaks)

2. There are NO houses at all on the new highway what so ever. Yes beyond the new high there are. 102 has larger lots and thus more open space but no section of no housing until the very end.

3. The new highway has much larger areas at intersection allowing for better line of sight for both highway users and those entering from the side roads
2/7/2012 1:49:19 PM
DougMyers says:
4. Heavy truck traffic should be restricted as it is EVERYWHERE else in this country and the US. Shall we just let heavy truck traffic anywhere then? Might be faster to cut through Westfort to get to the mill?!?

I am certainly not a NIBMBY by any stretch of the imagination. I am a realist and think this sounds reasonable. You would also be shocked to hear that I like the idea of restricting on West Arthur as well.

If the majority of truck traffic is routed to one roadway than those that wish to avoid it can.

The plan for the new highway is to eventually route past KB all together so lets get moving on redirecting the traffic that should be there.
2/7/2012 1:54:05 PM
homelessteen says:
Every company charges a fuel surcharge. By increasing the distance traveled the cost is redirected to the end user. Which is the customer. There will still be tractor-trailers using this route to deliver to any number of the businesses along this route because having a delivery for an address even in restricted routes makes the restriction null and void. This includes weight and length restrictions. (can't remember about dangerous goods routes though)
2/7/2012 11:59:44 AM
gone for good says:
cac says:When you buy a house on a highway, then expect highway traffic! If you don't like it, then move. Don't expect everything to change because you are unhappy and don't feel safe. You are the one who should be expected to make the change not everyone else!

You nailed it.
We lived out by Sisstonens corner for 14 years.
Trucks were a way of life out there long before us.
2/7/2012 12:04:50 PM
fixer1 says:
since highway is under construction,it should be upgraded with turning lanes at every intersection and more passing lanes.spend it there instead of wasting it on a useless cloverleaf.by the way,why is the leaf there and not at harbor expressway.
2/7/2012 12:23:08 PM
hardrawkin says:
Nimby's at it again.

Don't push the problem somewhere else. Upgrade the road or whatever else is needed to fix it.

I am surprized that the council have so much time to waste on this issue when the rest of the city is crumbling and falling apart.
2/7/2012 12:35:25 PM
PlainNSimple says:
Lets see we have all been and are paying for a NEW MAJOR highway that was constructed for this very reason highway traffic passing through with large cargo or needing access to the water front. SO WHATS TO ARGUE ABOUT!

The multi million dollar extension was built for this traffic to get them off arthur street as well as dawson road. It was not built for pedestrian traffic to speed up there commute to town from Kakabeka or rural Thunder Bay. You ask about traffic at red river/john st/oliver road?? Maybe a clover leaf at Copenhagen was a bad idea and could have been better used at any one of these intersections!

And backlog how about the stretch of 102 from expressway to the macs store!!!!! when you have 5 to 10 18 wheelers trying make use of this ( Highway ) section !!! a highway with 4 sets of lights and pedestrian walkways, family grocery stores...... you wanna talk about safety
2/7/2012 12:58:57 PM
DougMyers says:
Thank you!!
2/7/2012 1:55:47 PM
Random says:
The multi million dollar extension that wasn't finished you mean.
It is ridiculas to suggest those trucks run through Kakabeka. It takes longer, and costs more fuel, and that is the be all end all for trucking companies. Why would someone driving east to west choose to go out of their way to use a poorly designed extension that isn't an extension of anything except the harbour expressway. As far as i'm concerned, it's only purpose is to help the country bound 9 to 5ers get home quicker.
The only way that extension will work is if the province redirects some of the money always earmarked for the precious southern part of Ontario to finish the extension and run it all the way to Shabaqua. Until then, KEEP ON TRUCKIN truckers (on 102!!)
2/7/2012 6:45:40 PM
Common cents says:
It was not built for pedestrian traffic to speed up there commute to town from Kakabeka or rural Thunder Bay???

Pedestrians are not allowed on the shabby extention!!!

The clover leaf is been built at Copenhagen because Red River Road is next to get one, and a lot of traffic will choose to got through town and avoid delays at Red River. Once the new cloverleaf is built at Red River it will be smooth sailing for all traffic using Hwy 102.

So just bear with it people you bought your house where you did, live with it or MOVE Its that plain and that simple.


Ps: Dont buy one on Hodder or you,s all be crying about that too!
2/7/2012 7:37:16 PM
tbaybmkr says:
Trucks kill.
2/7/2012 12:59:02 PM
lawabidingcitizen says:
While they're at it, they might as well ban (wood) chip trucks from using North Waterloo St and force them to use the Harbour Expressway. They should be using that road already.
2/7/2012 1:14:19 PM
The Beaver..... says:
@ Doug Myers
There is a School At Kekabeka as well,much larger with more kids.There also is a little Town called Kekabeka Falls...there also is a Provincial Park with many Visitors..does all that not concern you.
2/7/2012 1:23:00 PM
DougMyers says:
50 km/h zone through the entire communtity with a strong police presence, 4 lanes wide, good lighting at night and places for the trucks to stop for a break for food,rest, laundromat, etc. More than I can say in Thunder Bay where there are "No Big Trucks" or "No Semis" signs at lots big enough for them (see County Fair Plaza as a prime example).
If you need further proof, Terrave Bay, Upsala, and Ignace all have major highways right throught the middle of town and have grown because of it.

See my list above for further ideas. I still contend this is a better route for heavy traffic.
2/7/2012 2:04:30 PM
Common cents says:
If you need further proof, Terrave Bay, Upsala, and Ignace all have major highways right throught the middle of town and have grown because of it.

Vaild point and McIntyre ward and the City should be doing the same. Do you think if councilor Trevor Giertuga still owned that truck stop this would still be going on? NOT A CHANCE

When buying a house remember: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION dont start crying after the fact.
2/7/2012 7:48:49 PM
nwo says:
Do the Thunder Bay councillors/mayor ever drive down the highway towards/through Kakabeka Falls??? Do they not see the school, park, stores, people who use this area? Why do they just shove their problems off on others thinking this is the way to solve their problems. Think before you act - do all politicians leave their brains behind when they get into power?
2/7/2012 3:24:05 PM
TBDR says:
There is a school and park on Dawson Road too... what's you're point?
2/7/2012 6:01:45 PM
jerbear88 says:
I am interested to see how many deaths will occure at the uncontroled intersections of Mapleward Rd., Twin City Cross Rd.,and Arthur St., Vibert Rd. crossroad ( a engineering masterpiece) that was built with no sight lines and 4 curves and I haven't begone to talk about Kakabeka yet!
2/7/2012 3:35:19 PM
tannharr says:
I have witnessed too many times during the drive from Kenora to Thunder Bay, and back, the dangerous driving of truckers. Many of them have no respect for the smaller vehicles that share the road with them, and have caused me to alter my driving in an unsafe way on many occasions.

Just recently, family members of mine were forced off the highway while driving east from Thunder Bay to make way for an oncoming transport driving west in their eastbound passing lane. Rather than realizing HE, the trucker, was in the wrong, HE continued driving west in the eastbound passing lane, as he was passing another transport. This forced their vehicle to hit the side of the transport they were passing LEGALLY, and could have easily caused much more damage than they actually did.

I WANT TO SEE MORE LAWS IMPOSED ON TRUCKERS, INCLUDING LIMITING SPEED AND IMPOSING A NO-PASSING LAW, AT LEAST UNTIL THE TRANS-CANADA IS TWINNED FROM BORDER TO BORDER. AT THAT TIME, IT CAN BE REVIEWED FOR ALTERATIONS
2/7/2012 6:18:50 PM
Dr. Double Double says:
Just a mere few months ago, there were plans by the MTO to build a Kakabeka bypass. The residents of Kakabeka FOUGHT IT so that truck traffic would intentionally pass through their town.

Those of you whining about Kakabeka don't realize that they want these trucks through their town as it means more business.

Those residents on and near Dawson Road (like me) have a valid complaint about ALL traffic, not just truck traffic. Dawson Road is unsafe. There are no turning lanes onto Masters, Sherwood, Toivo, and Skyline. The numerous lights mean lots of people run them at high speeds. The lights aren't co-ordinated so people drag race to the next light to avoid being stopped by another red a few feet away.

Then you have increased traffic due to Wal-Mart and the County Fair renovations clogging up the area more, along with HUNDREDS or more houses being built.

I'm not against truck traffic on Dawson Road, but for the love of Pete, just make Dawson Road safer.
2/7/2012 6:55:47 PM
combatwombat says:
I agree with your point its the drivers that make an section of road dangerous. AND Not the road or the kind of vehicles themselves.
The "no turning" onto masters sherwood etc etc makes things worse to bottleneck further south.
I mean how did THAT happen?
Is it that there was some NIMBY going on with the no turning on those streets? Or was it a traffic study?
if so it needs to be restudied!
2/8/2012 11:26:28 AM
illuminati_nation says:
I can't Imagine forcing transport trucks to take a highway, which cost millions to build, that was actually designed to accommodate truck traffic! That would be ridiculous! Instead, we should continue to allow large trucks to take a local route through a residential neighbourhood and clog traffic, run red lights, tailgate and speed, all while chewing up Dawson Rd (which cost the city to repair by the way).

I've been reading some pretty asinine arguments against this proposal, that it's is a waste of "tax" money. Kind of like spending millions on an extension highway for trucks that don't use it?

The issue isn't police enforcement; it's getting the trucks to take a route that was intended for them in the first place. THE PROBLEM is that no one on city council had the foresight to think of this and work out the traffic logistics before, during, or directly after the extension was built!

2/7/2012 8:03:45 PM
semicrazy5150 says:
tsk tsk mary roy all over again. i cant believe that this fool has all of counsil agreeing with him. how much is he paying them anyways? i think trevor should pay for the hard working owner-ops increased fuel bill for his stupid idea. i live by the airport. i think i am going to complain to the mayor about stopping the planes from flying over my house. as stated by someone else.. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT MOVE!! the highway has always been there.
2/7/2012 8:58:28 PM
The Beaver..... says:
so now is there any one that still would like to build a Clover Leaf at Red River and the Exppressway..lol..we could petition the MTO on that.
2/7/2012 9:15:55 PM
realistic1 says:
hadenough, you're referring to Dawson rd. My comments are with regard to Oliver Rd.
2/7/2012 10:16:16 PM
spooner19 says:
You people need to do some research. Take a look at how many people have been killed as a result of auto accidents on the stretch of hwy from KB to Arthur St. compared to Dawson Rd.? Now you want more trucks going through KB down Arthur? I don't care about the extension, the fact is you are putting more trucks through KB and watch the fatal accidents even increase more. Four lanes are not don't be stupid this stretch is already dangerous worse than Dawson now you people want to even make it worse. Take a look at the number of deaths on that part of the Trans Canada already. Use your heads a little.
2/8/2012 1:12:20 AM
DougMyers says:
OK I'll bite,

Care to share your extensive research with us so we can see the issue you speak of?
2/8/2012 9:39:08 AM
FyreFaerie says:
Giertuga cited ONE fatal accident in 2008 that was caused by a truck. You can bet your bottom dollar that if there was more, and more recent, he'd have paraded them out.

I can think of two fatalities, in the same period on highway 11/17 between Kakabeka Falls and Thunder Bay that did not involve trucks.
2/8/2012 10:46:27 AM
laurie says:
tannharr says:

I WANT TO SEE MORE LAWS IMPOSED ON TRUCKERS, INCLUDING LIMITING SPEED AND IMPOSING A NO-PASSING LAW, AT LEAST UNTIL THE TRANS-CANADA IS TWINNED FROM BORDER TO BORDER. AT THAT TIME, IT CAN BE REVIEWED FOR ALTERATIONS

Do your research before posting... Canadian truckers have delimiters which don't let them go over 105km...

They also have road side checks by DMV... Scales which their log books, trucks, and loads are checked.

I'd rather be behind a trucker than a car..

Most truckers are safe drivers..

Some drivers taunt them by getting in front of them and drive slower than the speed limit..

Yes.. I am a truckers wife and dam proud of it!

"If You Bought It, A Trucker Brought It"
2/8/2012 7:15:01 AM
tannharr says:
Oh, I HAVE done my research! I know that they are SUPPOSED to have speed limiters, which are SUPPOSED to not allow them to go over 105km. How is it that if I travel 105km/hr, that transports are able to catch up to me, and then pass me. How is it, if a row of transports travelling 105km/hr, one decides to pass? How can HE pass if they are already travelling 105km??? I feel much safer well in front of a trucker, than one on my ass while I travel 105km/hr, and he decides to flash his high beams so I am unable to see where I'm driving, in winter, at night.

Please explain to me why my elderly family members were nearly killed due to poor driving habits by a few transport drivers. Out of three trucks involved, none of them stopped after they knew they all saw my family drive into the ditch! Maybe your husband's a good driver, and I applaud him for that. I'm talking about the ones that aren't like him. There are too many out there. I can't buy it if the delivery doesn't arrive!
2/8/2012 5:39:07 PM
rothmich says:
Your ELDERLY family members hit the ditch? News at 11.
2/9/2012 1:07:05 PM
wow! says:
WASTING OUR TAXES talking about this. It will never happen!
2/8/2012 8:36:30 AM
FyreFaerie says:
We can blame Giertuga all we want, but the fact of the matter is that council passed this resolution unanimously. Let us not forget who council is supposed to work for.

If you believe, as I do, that this is asinine, please contact your council member and ensure they know your views. Heck, even if you don't agree with me, call your council member. We NEED to hold these people accountable to US before they completely ruin this city.
2/8/2012 10:23:22 AM
unknowncronic says:
I don't like RED CARS on that stretch of road either....Let's ban ALL RED VEHICLES too!
2/8/2012 10:53:24 AM
newshound says:
Its so funny to read all these comments. First off, I do believe years ago the 102 by pass was made so trucks and traffic could by pass Thunder Bay and travel east... the people and area has expanded since then... so now its the truckers fault? Why dont the city police, and the OPP have traffic officers on Red River Road and 102 instead of taking the easy way out and just giving seat belt tickets? I mean wouldnt it be best to catch a trucker, or a car speeding up Dawson Road, passing in wrong lanes, violating other laws, too many times I drive Red River Road and watch the smaller vehicles cut in front of truckers and then give them the finger like its the truckers fault that he is now riding your tail? HELLO you expect a transport to stop on a dime for you, maybe all smaller vehicles should get some re training in regards to traffic safety.. As for the school in Kakebekka, its a small town, with 4 lanes, that is correct, its right beside the street, Dawson is off the main drag.
2/8/2012 11:03:35 AM
newshound says:
So, if you want to talk about safety, lets try, all the accidents that have happened on the new harbour extention, and if traffic moves to this new hwy, it will still put them going thru Kakebekka. So it takes traffic from one problem area and puts it in another!! Way to go Trevor, maybe you should stick to things you know about.. stay working as a Nurse give up politics!!
2/8/2012 11:06:13 AM
spooner19 says:
To: DougMyers

Well if you watch the news there was a fatality just a few weeks ago on this stretch of hwy and there has been many over the years. This is a dangerous stretch of hwy and making trucks use that route even more will just make the problem worse. I am not saying that truck drivers are bad drivers because they are not i often follow behind a truck when i travel because i trust them more than others on hwy's. Maybe the problem on Dawson is the people who live there and are trying to pass a truck or getting up too close to them so they can get to town or home a couple minutes quicker. Shifting more traffic to another road because of a bunch of people who bought homes on a hwy and now don't like the trucks using it is totally ridiculous. Like others have said if you don't like then move!
2/8/2012 12:38:50 PM
anvil of crom says:
persecution of trucks by length hmmmm
What about "real heavy , short trucks"
still large, scary but just not long.
Tbnewswatch.com

2/8/2012 6:54:12 PM
eddylives says:
LMAO......Trucks don't kill people , people kill people.
By their actions whether its commercial drivers or passenger drivers , their actions regulate the outcome.
2/9/2012 11:03:35 AM
anvil of crom says:
you are so right!
In the mid 80's I used to drive the highway @ 0745 from john street to arthur as did many of my co-workers. It was busy as the city workers going to mountdale avenue off arthur, and the mill employees were all on it at the same time.
Crazy driving lots of accidents and only two lanes in those days!
Even with all our so called economic woes, traffic now @ the John street/red river/arthur highway intersections worse now! ( and they say the economy is down.. yeah right)
To add in those good ole days, my father talked to a cop one day about the stretch between oliver and arthur, said it was a bad section , the cop said nothing is wrong with that section its the drivers
Again, jonny law was absolutley right!
2/10/2012 8:58:20 AM
MyChrome says:
It is true that there was one fatality on Dawson Rd involving a transport but it was not the truck driver's fault! It was the inexperience of a 17 yr old. Now, I am not a truck driver and have had some not so happy moments across Canada with regards to transports but I have had MANY more of those on a daily basis with regular ol traffic here in the Bay! Think about it...when you were out in your car today, did you want to flip a bird to a passenger vehicle driver or a truck driver? Rhetorical and I rest my case!
Yep there is 5 Mile School on hwy 102 but happily, you can use Government Rd then Ada Ave to get to it and avoid that part of the Hwy altogether! Is there an issue with kids running out onto the highway? I have not heard of this.
Driver's need to be accountable. Was it a truck that caused the death of that beautiful 18yr old girl on the Shabaqua extension? Nope..it was a police officer! The only thing the MTO should do is make people retake their driver's tests every 5 years!
2/10/2012 4:35:07 PM
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