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2012-02-07 at 21:29

Talking back

By Jamie Smith, tbnewswatch.com
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The city needs to do more to keep its costs down some residents say while others want the city to spend.

Council heard seven deputations during its pre-budget consultation meeting Tuesday night.

“I’m here to complain about the increases,” Joanne Richard told council bluntly.

Richard said taxes and water rates have increased almost every year in the 20 years that she’s owned her home. And from family to co-workers, she said she’s heard nothing but frustration and anger from people who feel that the cost of living is too high. Council is not hearing from the average person because they are too busy to show up to meetings.

“It’s like council doesn’t think of the average citizen,” she said. “You’re not hearing most people’s opinions here. Hardly anybody comes to these meetings.”

Richard suggested that the city put a questionnaire about the budget into tax bills. She then said the city should consider user fees on everything from rinks to libraries to cover costs.

Former Current River Ward candidate Andy Wolff suggested that the city review a department every month as a way to find savings. He then said every city employee making $100,000 a year or more should accept a wage freeze.

“If they are serving the city then they should take one for the team,” he said.

A group called Save the Thunder Bay Conservatory: Don’t Pave Paradise, which currently has 844 members on Facebook, made a plea to council to think of the benefits the city’s 44-year-old conservatory has brought to Thunder Bay. And although it’s losing $600,000 a year, group founder Keely Banning said the conservatory isn’t about making money.

“It was never intended as a moneymaking project,” she said. “It was intended as an indoor green space.”

But if the city does want it to generate more revenue, Banning said members have made plenty of suggestions online from putting a café into the space, to turning it into a butterfly or bird park. Others have suggested charging a small annual membership fee to keep the building open.

“We’re open to many different possibilities right now,” she said.

Councillors cautioned that no report has surfaced with any recommendation about the conservatory but asked Banning if her group would support up to $3 million to renovate the facility and raise taxes. Banning said based on her research so far, there are plenty of grants available the city could apply for to keep costs down.

“There is money out there,” she said.

Council begins budget deliberations Wednesday. 
 

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Tbnewswatch.com(15)

Comments

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ring of fire dude says:
I myself , just like Joanne Richard am fed up with the insane tax increases . I have seen my tax bill go up $1000 in 12 years and and my water bill rates are drowning me .With all the development(debt)the City has taken on I can foresee no relief coming in the future . As to the conservatory ,I wonder if Keely Bannon is a residential taxpayer or someone whose intentions are good but does not realize how much debt the City is piling up on it's citizens .
2/7/2012 10:04:02 PM
Circular_Logic says:
I would like to commend Ms. Richard for her remarks to council recently regarding the budget. I believe she speaks for many of us. With regard to the salary increases proposed for some city employees; rather than offering a 4% increase consider instead offering a one time lump sum payment for each of the contract years. This would remove the compounding effect of annual percentage increases to the hourly pay rates, while still providing a negotiated payment. Annual percentage increases on top of the previous ones year over year, greatly increase costs over time and affect everything from salary costs to pension costs. This method has been employed elsewhere in the public sector as a means of controling the 80% cost of salaries in relation to the budget as a whole. A hiring freeze would also be a means of addressing staffing costs. As staff retire, each vacant position should be reviewed for chances to merge, consolidate or reduce by attrition any redundancies. Comments?
2/7/2012 10:38:21 PM
today says:
Does inflation not affect you? Let me know your secret. I'd have no problem with your scenario if things like food , utilities, didn't go up in price.
Ask yourself this question. Where does virtually all of govt tax dollars come from?
a. the poor
b. the rich
c. the ones that you speak of
d. other?

Who pays the pensions, medical costs, govt expenses...a,b,c,or d?
So if we follow your scenerio, in 20 yrs, your choices will be a,b,d, and if you are part of 'c' now, you won't be then. Don't forget 'c' group makes 'a' group rich, and keeps 'b' group alive. So look at this way, get rid of 'c' and you'll probably be looking at option 'd', whatever that may be. I sincerley hope that I'm wrong about your thinking, but if everyone agrees with you, we're in for a lot of trouble. We need people in this country that are longsighted, not shortsighted, looking out for themselves..... But if think you that we should become a 3rd world economy, your comment is right on the mark.
2/8/2012 1:00:31 PM
nvjgu says:
Message to the city," You have to stop raising the taxes . I am not makeing anymore money than I was two yr's ago and have gone through 3 budget's since my last raise which was 50c . With everything else that has gone up in the past two years gas,food,hydro,tel,water It's putting people out on the streets and into food banks. Stop raising taxes.
2/7/2012 10:41:22 PM
dynamiter says:
Thunder Bay seems to be tapped out on things like the Conservatory. This is a cultural building and the people who want to save it need to realize this. However due to the size of the city there is only so much discretionary dollars to be donated by private contributors - that is what happens at Magnus, Community Aud, Thunder Bay Art Gallery, Museum etc etc. These facilities all charge fees and have major contributions by the rich and famous - The Conservatory should be put into the same category as are facilities such as this in other cities. So if people want to keep this and not totally funded by the tax payer - Show them the money. As far as producing bedding plants for the city gardens - there are a lot of private facilities that can do that more economically. I thought the city administration didnt want to be in the business of competing with the private sector. Who cares whom plants these gardens - by the plants from the cheapest supply.
2/7/2012 11:17:33 PM
mikevirtanen1961 says:
Administration researched the cost for contracting out the plants a couple years ago. It was found that the Conservatory's greenhouses were some of the best run in the province, and that the cost savings would be negligible. Given that there were very few local greenhouses capable of producing that volume of product, it was expected that they would increase the costs the moment we dismantled our own program.
2/9/2012 10:15:04 AM
Yer joking says:
Thank you city council for letting the people speak and say their piece. It's nice to see a Council that lets the people speak prior to going aon some stupid spending rampage. You will be able to say " We asked for input and this was all we got!". So now you have free lisence to do as you like with the tax dollars plus admin can blame the provincial and federal government for any and everything they want. There will be rightous indignation when money is spent and those other ten aldermen vote in favorof it. But don't worry in a couple of years you can fool the people once again and say"well I voted to keep taxes down but the others wanted the blah blah".
2/7/2012 11:36:15 PM
Cam Gibb says:
It is illogical mathematically to think continuing raising taxes is okay because eventually they would reach 100 % lol ;-) More and more strain and stress is the result.

So ... some cost items are needed, some are not. No easy choices for individuals in City Council to cut things without backing of majority of those they represent.

$800,000/yr for Conservatory is a lot. But, 1 such place does not seem unreasonable, especially since it links by walkway to an assisted public golf course that also loses tax dollars. The 2 combined make for very useful places to go alone or with family friends to do something good in various ways. They are "easy access" for people without cars. I would not assist other golf courses. The club rentals are invitingly low priced for all income levels at course. We may have more courses then needed. If 1 ends up closing, more will come to the remaining ones.
2/8/2012 11:35:13 AM
sc says:
I too am completely digusted with the increases to property taxes. In 12 years my taxes doubled!!! When the total amount is broken down to a monthly or weekly rate, it makes me sick. In the end I always wonder what I am really getting for $60 per week?

The cost of living in Thunder Bay is getting to be too much period.

Stop raising taxes!!!
2/8/2012 12:02:35 PM
crazyforweed says:
cost of living here sucks ,rent is to high for slum apartments which tbay is full of with slum landlords who charge up the wahoo for a shady place , i just dont get it ?? and when is the marina going to be complete? city councill you suck !!
2/8/2012 1:18:58 PM
itshell says:
If you are going to have a freeze on employees wages...then it is across the board...PERIOD
2/8/2012 1:22:08 PM
david H says:
I feel compelled to leave a comment. If all we want are cheaper things, and lower taxes, then we are going to be left with an empty community. Yes, the city should always try to save money where we can, and get the best bang for the buck. but lets acknowledge that if we want services, infrastructure, parks, and green space, then it takes money to do that. i realize that there are some that have difficulty making ends meet. i wish that municipal taxes could be collected on an income basis, like provincial and federal taxes.
2/8/2012 1:35:51 PM
Chaos says:
The horse is out of the barn!! So they spent or allocated most of the money first and then asked people what their input is to reduce taxes...classic!! The city already spent the wad on the marina, update city hall, new social service building, new ems, new fire plan, etc and have also ear marked the balance of the slush fund to multi-plex...the above represents 10's of millions of dollars and now we have to live with less service? The cities priorities are all messed up in my opinion?!
2/8/2012 5:09:58 PM
wayne says:
Thank you for your interest concerning the Conservatory.I can not comment on the current situation because it is under review.
Your comments provided will be considered during review process.
Joe Bigder
Leadhand/Curator
Centennial botanical Conservatory

To: jbigder@thunderbay.ca
Date: 01/30/2012 12:56 AM
Subject: Fate of the Centennial Botanical Conservatory

Mr. Bidger, I have been a lifelong citizen of Thunder Bay and visit the Conservatory on an annual basis ever since it first opened. I am sad to read/hear that the City may be considering closing that legacy down. I belong to a group known as Concerned Citizens of Thunder Bay and we are wondering if there are options or ways that the City or us as proud citizens of this fine city can pursue to save the Conservatory?
2/8/2012 9:20:31 PM
wayne says:
the remainder of my original message to Mr. Bidger:

Some of the questions we have posed:

1. What is the predicted lifespan of the existing structure?

2. Could a mandatory entrance fee be charged and perhaps administered through volunteers?

3. What are the operating costs of the Conservatory on an annual basis broken down by staffing, heating, power, water, etc?

4. Is there a way to utilize volunteers to make the operation of the facility more financially efficient?

Bottom line, we want to see this legacy green space live long into the future. It is a part of our City's heritage and a tribute to the Centennial of our Country. Would be a sad day to see this legacy become nothing more than a faded memory come our Bicentennial.
2/8/2012 9:22:44 PM
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