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2012-02-22 at 16:35

City vehicles should gas up at Fort William First Nations, mayor ponders

By tbnewswatch.com
Thunder Bay Military Family Resource CentreThank you Thunder Bay for making the Spring Craft and Yard Sale a success! Drop by the MFRC to purchase your yellow ribbon pins. Call 345-5116Click Here for Details

Mayor Keith Hobbs thinks he might have a way to save the city some money and provide an economic boost to the Fort William First Nation. 

During budget deliberations Tuesday night, the mayor raised an idea to have city vehicles fill up on at gas stations located in The Fort William First Nation.

This year, the city's Fleet Department expects to spend $3.2-million dollars on gasoline and diesel fuel, an increase of more than half-a-million dollars. 

Hobbs points to the declaration of commitment the city signed with the nearby First Nation community last year. 

The mayor said it's something that should at least be explored.

The Mayor admitted that it may not be feasible because the city currently buys its fuel in bulk. 

The city is paying about $1.10 a litre right now.

The lowest price for fuel on the First Nation on Wednesday is $1.11 a litre
 

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Tbnewswatch.com(45)

Comments

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The Beaver..... says:
Mr.Mayor there are just too many vehicles...did that ever occur to you and others at City Hall.Yesterday Signs were taken down at the Expressway ...3 Vehicles...all of them idling away..not only that now there are no signs so in a month or so 3 more vehicles will show up to put signs up again..it never occurred to anyone to have signs ready and put them up at the same time.
2/22/2012 4:49:40 PM
tsb says:
They actually did put a new sign up. It's more confusing than the old one and the font is a bit squished, but at least they accomplished two things in one day. Tomorrow, they will probably do the other sign.

Maybe we would see better efficiency if we banned city employees from going to fast food restaurants?
2/22/2012 9:13:34 PM
Me n My Opinion says:
About as great an idea as a curfew - probably even worse.
2/22/2012 5:05:30 PM
TBDR says:
why?
2/22/2012 6:52:49 PM
Me n My Opinion says:
Where to start?

First, if a grader operator from the north end yard had to fill up. How long does it take to drive a grader from North Cumberland? 45 minutes each way? For each grader, dump truck, sidewalk plow. Right now they're stationed at a spot that has gas pumps on site.

Firetrucks from the north end stations? Even the south end stations.

Every Police cruiser?

Transit buses?

Right now the city has fuelling stations for their own fleet at 4 or 5 different locations around the city. If every vehicle started going to the reserve to fill, it costs wages , lost productivity leading to needing more pieces of equipment and additional labour, shorter life span for the equipment because of additional time/kilometers, the actual cost of the fuel getting there and back, tons of additional green house gases emitted.

I know you're his biggest cheerleader, but I thought you were smart enough to figure these out.
2/22/2012 11:30:28 PM
ring of fire dude says:
Hey Mayor Hobbs ... I'm sure the Government would love you to fuel up over there , that way they can screw us over for the gas tax rebate . And besides , don't the City workers have better things to do than travel across town on MY dime to fill up ? Also if your so worried about the 3.2 million why doesn't the city downsize their vehicles instead of buying/leasing 40 to $50,000 vehicles like the managers and TbayTel drive around in to save on fuel costs .
2/22/2012 5:07:54 PM
tiredofit says:
Why is it you and several other people think by purchasing gas on the Rez will screw the government out of taxes?? They have to still collect and submit taxes for all non-native purchases, the reality is they can simply sell it cheaper that the big money grabing companies out there.

If they can save a few bucks in this case several thousand over the period of year I say go for it.

With that said, I agree that they have far to many vehicles right now and should reduce the fleet and force these employees to turn the dam things off when their not sitting in them!
2/22/2012 5:57:29 PM
Kenny says:
They don't collect or remit the HST. There is no agreement between First Nations and the Federal gov to collect HST on reserve. Thats why it is 20 cents cheaper per liter.

If you have a native status gas card you save an additonal 14.7 cents of provincial fuel tax.
2/23/2012 12:00:33 AM
advocate says:
So Hobbs's solution is to pay more than the city is currently paying now?

In addition, and I know this is not popular, but main difference in price to regular consumers is that the First Nation has less taxes. These taxes go toward our health care, education, roads, and as ring of fire dude points out, municipality services.

So Hobbs is not even promoting something the City can do. He instead is setting a bad example to everyone by encouraging those living in Thunder Bay to not support local gas business and to buy their fuel from FWFN.


Time for this guy to go.
2/22/2012 5:45:59 PM
Kidknapp says:
Dear city council: Maybe you should start buying more fuel efficient vehicles instead of pickup trucks for all departments! Smart cars for management would be a good start!
2/22/2012 6:03:49 PM
tannharr says:
If the City currently purchases it's fuel in bulk at a present rate of $1.10/L and the FWFN gas station are selling it at $1.11/L, what are the savings? I say keep the process the way it is now, but begin replacing older vehicles with newer, more fuel efficient vehicles. Rather than purchasing trucks for all departments, maybe some could be driving Smart Cars or something a bit more compact. THAT is what's going to save the city money on gas.
2/22/2012 6:27:08 PM
TBDR says:
1.11 is FWFN's retail price... he's probably saying if they could get a bulk rate. Why is it you guys seem to think you know what you're talking about based on a couple paragraphs of text that may or may not have quoted him accurately?
2/22/2012 11:46:49 PM
Madtrapper says:
Wow..... isnt that the dumbest thing a mayor could say. What about the gas stations in town paying city property taxes....cant believe it. Its not like city stations have control of the price of the gas. The savings is from the UNPAID taxes on the gas...which are subsidized by us eventually anyhow. How much in city taxes did we collect from the mission last year????? Sheesh!!!
2/22/2012 6:28:20 PM
iceman says:
That's the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time. He is running our city?
City people get paid by hour, it takes time to drive over there (wait in lines) City buys bulk fuel from same place natives buy theres, negotiate a better price, drive smaller vehicles etc
2/22/2012 6:37:24 PM
Dr. Double Double says:
The CN bridge is already unsafe and very narrow. What would be the costs of wear and tear on the vehicles for taking the bridge? If the city vehicles are forced to take Highway 61 and Chippewa Road, there go your fuel savings right there.

Unless the City can find an agreement to buy fuel in bulk from FWFN, it's not going to be much cheaper, if at all.

What about the idea of giving FWFN some land in town and declaring it as part of the reserve? Put a gas station on it and voila.
2/22/2012 7:06:11 PM
crazyforweed says:
That's just to good of an idead ,and would save money for everyone , might want to get a consultant in on that and some other major expenses than they'll look at it ! , but on a lighter note that would be a good idea =)
2/23/2012 10:39:43 AM
udecide says:
People , if you want your comment posted make sure you DO NOT disagree with any of the First Nation issues. I entered two a day and a half ago and neither one got posted. Typical Thunder Bay news paper , small tow thinking it is a big city LOL. An embarrassment to the province ( doubt this will make it either )
2/22/2012 7:48:34 PM
nwo says:
Really??? $1.10 buying in bulk; $1.11 buying from First Nations. No wonder this city is in trouble:)
2/22/2012 8:08:07 PM
Grammy says:
Yes I agree there should be some revenue to the First Nations, there was a commitment MOU signed to work together the gas purchase is a start. The cost of bulk buy at 1.10 does not include the mtnce of the tanks and pumps nor the loss of gas from mistakes So I am in favour of the City sending some revenue their way which also in the long run can mean some savings of Environmental Issues resultng in holfng tanks on city property, Get the reserve to enter into a contract to sell the city gas at a small discount keep in mind that it will be less gas tax revenue on the return from he prov, but with better planning on fill ups everyone wins
2/22/2012 8:35:51 PM
yer joking says:
Why not drive to Rydens? I'm sure they would like the business, it could be a convoy every morning. Plus give each employee $50 in tax dollars to wager at Grand Portage casino and Then we could really lower tax increases. I mean someone has to get lucky sooner or later. Seniors on fixed incomes who can't afford their tax bills could shovel the snow off of the streets.It would also keep them warm and in good shape.
2/22/2012 9:02:28 PM
zeppelin says:
Hey why not, there`s a reason why the gas stations across the bridge are packed all the time.
2/22/2012 9:57:29 PM
brooky says:
Hobbs is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He's trying to please the worshipers that voted him in and at the same time he's trying to please the naysayers. Neither is working. How any of you voters could not see through his own personal agenda and voted for this guy is beyond me.
2/22/2012 10:52:24 PM
jaytee says:
I sure hope THP decides to put more pumps in if the city goes through with this..
2/22/2012 11:28:37 PM
wow! says:
Nice job making a statement that THUNDER BAY GAS STATIONS IS GOUGING!

Time to make the gas more affordable! Hope this is a start to something.
2/23/2012 12:57:32 AM
anvil of crom says:
i dunno i follow the gas prices, if one goes to the superstore and has their proprietary gas card its only a few cents more then the mountain , not worth the drive. Opps but ya goot get groceries,,,
oh
ahh theres the rub!
2/23/2012 1:27:53 AM
idontknowitall says:
I told myself I wouldn't comment on these boards anymore, but after hearing this idea, I couldn't help myself. I won't fill up on the reserve for a couple of reasons - one, as a matter of principle, and the second, because it's out of my way and I'm not willing to sit in line (idling??) to save 5 or 10 bucks every couple of weeks. I wonder if the math has been done to compare filling up at a station right beside where you're working, to driving a 15- or 20-kilometre round-trip, plus time spent waiting in line, all the while paying wages for work that's not getting done. I agree with the posts here that mention forward-thinking, long-term solutions such as more fuel-efficient vehicles and better city planning and use of existing resources.
2/23/2012 6:23:16 AM
woofwoof says:
That's it ,take revenue away from tax paying businesses...what was I thinking when I voted for Hobbs..my apoligies Thunder Bay.
2/23/2012 7:29:15 AM
realistic1 says:
FWFN doesn't pay property taxes to the city do they. Why would we support them with our tax dollars? That makes no sense.
2/23/2012 7:54:49 AM
grs says:
Here's another idea for Hobbs - have the city start buying supplies at Wal-Mart. They have really cheap prices on everything there. Surely we can save $0.02 on a stack of printer paper, and bottled water would be sooo much cheaper. Of course, we'd need a team of people to regularly scan the flyers for sale items so we'd have to hire several people. But that team could also be purchasing online from the US (where stuff is also cheaper - think Target and Menards) and they could also be used to drive to Rydens to pick up stuff. Hey, wait, they could fill up jerry cans there too! More savings!
2/23/2012 9:03:59 AM
kitty says:
I prefer to fill up at Shell, I get the best mileage for my car with their fuel.
2/23/2012 9:51:02 AM
shake'n'myhead says:
This is a stupid topic and some of the comments made sound like they were made by children.
Use your head for more than a hat rack. The city isn't going to buy gas from the Rez. Hobbs was just spouting off to redirect any heat away from himself so he wouldn't be in the line of fire.
2/23/2012 10:39:39 AM
woodzee says:
Why not buy in bulk with FWFN
2/23/2012 10:49:58 AM
idontknowitall says:
I wish someone at TBNewswatch would explain why our comments don't make it on here. After reading what some of these ones say, mine was extremely pedestrian. I give up.
2/23/2012 11:14:29 AM
publicdomain says:
good grief people...he said it was "something that should at least be explored" All our mayor is doing is thinking of ways to save the city money. This probably isn't an option, but I agree worthwhile looking in to. I only hope that they don't spend money on a study to determine feasibility. A couple of quick phone calls by the a city purchaser should suffice ;)
2/23/2012 11:44:51 AM
jwo2854 says:
Take a drive out to Chippewa Park.
The traffic is now non stop with people heading out there is purchase gas. The line ups at
these stations are crazy. All this traffic
moves across the aging and poorly maintained
James St. bridge. I'm sure Hobbs has to be joking, if he thinks throwing city vehicles
into the mix is a good idea. Nobody can possibly
be that stupid.
2/23/2012 12:09:11 PM
yer joking says:
Doesn't one need a Status Card to buy cheap gas? This could be a good idea the Mayor has. It'll drive unemployment down , get us cheap gas, make city workers happy because their day will consist of going to the reserve, going for coffee, going to the reserve for more gas, lunch, gas, coffee and more gas. Before you know it days over and that damn memo still wasn't sent.
2/23/2012 12:12:19 PM
Papercut says:
Hey what about all the city vehicles being driven by staff....home, shopping, picking up the kids etc???

Plus you have vehicles ideling all day long...which is also bad for the greenhouse gases!
2/23/2012 12:20:11 PM
eddylives says:
"I wish someone at TBNewswatch would explain why our comments don't make it on here. After reading what some of these ones say, mine was extremely pedestrian. I give up."

The reason is simple......
They don't have the balls to allow the real coments through , you know the ones that state how people really feel about issues.
Too many hurt feelings scare them lol.
2/23/2012 3:53:39 PM
unionbay880 says:
Take a look at your house taxes then imagine what a Thunder Bay gas station pays. How much wil be saved when they start going out of busines? I guess it wont matter, they will just raise taxes for everyone else.
2/23/2012 4:15:38 PM
JerBear88 says:
This man is a joke! Not only is the price of fuel on par,but has he not figured in the wage cost for traveling back and forth to fill up! The bridge has a weight restriction so the majority of city vehicles would have to travel the long way around, so I figure the cost would be well above the 2 to 3 dollar range per liter,but someone on that great council will for sure call for a study.my apologies to the private owned city tax paying gas stations for having to see how easy it is for the city (Mayor) to sell them out!
2/23/2012 6:42:46 PM
ecostatik says:
I am happy TBNewswatch deletes the racist/ignorant/bigoted comments on here. My complaint is that its not deleted enough. I come here for the "news". Instead almost every article has some dicussion that twists it into an anti-native campaign. Which is not only upsetting being an aboriginal professional (who lives and works off reserve and pays the same taxes), but it makes me embarrassed and ashamed to call Thunder Bay my home town. I truly pray that this anti-native crowd is only the handful of people that seem to sit on here all day. Also the thumbs up numbers are highly exaggerated, I can keep hitting F5 to add more and more likes to comments (watch I will do it to the above comment once this is posted)
2/23/2012 6:46:20 PM
The Beaver..... says:
Hobbs ...is he the Mayor??? is that the guy you voted for...please tell.
2/23/2012 8:22:18 PM
idontknowitall says:
@ecostatik - My question (in this particular instance) regarding unposted comments was a bit premature, as it was finally put up a few hours after submission. While I obviously can't speak for every censored/deleted comment that the site must see (and I'm sure they must receive some doozies), rest assured that mine do not fall in the categories you mentioned. I too am surprised sometimes at how off-track the comments get (like this one, I suppose), however I don't see an 'anti-native campaign' in today's comments.
2/24/2012 7:22:07 AM
dad3192 says:
Guess that'll teach Mayor Hobbs to make a suggestion to maybe save money! If someone else had suggested it, it would not have received all these comments hacking him as our Mayor!
I agree with some of the points brought up in here...like why do higher ups in City departments get vehicles and gas paid to drive back and forth to work?
I drive back and forth to work but don't get vehicles subsidized, or gas paid for.
I think our council needs to start working at the top of our city departments, and start making cuts where cuts are needed....
as for city employees eating at fast food restaurants...what does that have to do with anything?
2/24/2012 11:47:50 AM
collie says:
ROFLMAO

People voted for this guy lol.
I dont have to point out that the city would be paying $1.12/ litre on the reserve instead of the $1.10/ litre in bulk now lol I see someone else pointed out above .
Here be some REAL ways to save taxpayers $ by saving on Fuel expenses!!!!
#1 No city vehicle to sit IDLING (except Diesel in winter)
#2 NO one gets a CITY vehicle to take home at night and use for PERSONAL USE!!! Biggy here
#3 City vehicles are NOT to be used to drive for Coffee! IE: working downtown PA then driving to a Timmys that is 10 blocks away for coffee at coffee break taking 30 mins for break and leaving vehicle idling at same time!!! NOT HAPPENING LOL get out the logs for the GPS locators the Council approved a few years ago to keep track of city vehicles HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

These are just 3 ideas that would SAVE THOUSANDS of taxpayers $$$ per year IF enforced!!

BUT still more can be done!!
2/24/2012 11:54:18 AM
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