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2012-06-12 at NOON

Retailers association CEO says illegal tobacco sales damage community

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
View larger pictures

Illegal cigarette sales are on the rise in the city, says the CEO of a retailers association.

Dave Bryans, CEO of Ontario Convenience Stores Association, made a presentation to city council on Monday urging them to support a motion to eradicate contraband tobacco. He said contraband tobacco is a growing problem in every community and added that other municipalities, such as Ottawa, Windsor and North Bay, have all passed similar motions.

Bryans told council that the distribution and sale of contraband not only hurts small businesses and government through tax evasion, but also contributes to organized crime and the deterioration of the community.

“It’s the scourge of every community,” Bryans said. “It’s infiltrating our seniors’ homes, our high schools and your places of business. It’s gotten out of control. The city of Thunder Bay has seen a major increase in contraband tobacco usage in recent years.”

The city’s close proximately to First Nation communities and Manitoba makes it a potentially ideal location for trafficking illegal cigarettes.

“Thunder Bay has become a hot bed for contraband tobacco and I think we need to look at it more seriously.”

Bryans praised the work of the Thunder Bay District Health Unit in dealing with this issue and mentioned that a study compiled by them shows 70 per cent of local high school students who smoke use contraband tobacco.

Thunder Bay Police chief J.P. Levesque said it was the first time he had heard that number, and added that it was disturbing.  But the chief still added that he believed the number appeared a bit high.

“We are involved with the RCMP, the OPP and the district health unit in a campaign involving this,” Levesque said.

“We are, not to my knowledge, seeing white vans pulling up to schools and unloading contraband tobacco products. They are obviously for sale in proximity to our community.”

The chief added that it was difficult to deal with the issue because getting a search warrant for property outside of city limits was a significant challenge.

 

 

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Comments

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Sui Generis says:
Local convenience store owners are annoyed because the mission is getting their profits. Plain and simple. Eliminating contraband tobacco will NOT fix this issue for them, as there are many cigarettes sold on the reserve that are perfectly 100% legal, and will continue to be available.

Sago's ... duty paid seal and sticker. $33/carton. :)
6/12/2012 12:59:32 PM
waterunderthebridge says:
Mr Bryans said up above - The city’s close proximately to First Nation communities and Manitoba makes it a potentially ideal location for trafficking illegal cigarettes. WHY???

In the past big tobacco was producing cigarettes and allowing it to flow across the border to the US and be smuggled back through the reserves along the St Lawrence River - After getting caught and big time fines - things were cleaned up - but now a different but similar thing is happening

Criminal organizations are taking advantage of the geopolitical context of some First Nations communities located along the St. Lawrence River to meet the demand for cheaper cigarettes. They are capitalizing on special tax regimes, jurisdictional issues and limitations to enforcement capabilities to fuel their criminal activities.
As shown a tobacco company web page


We must get this at the source - and now!!
6/12/2012 1:17:15 PM
michaelnigharvey says:
im my opinion only ....... if you buy black market smokes ...... and then use tax funded facilities ..... you are nothing more than a common thief !
6/12/2012 1:36:30 PM
theonlyopinionthatmatters says:
Sorry Dave, all cigarettes are the scourge of every community, not just contraband ones.

Trying to act like you care about the community will work on the weak, but the smart know your out protecting the store owners who want people back on Du Mauriers instead of DK's.
6/12/2012 1:48:19 PM
trent says:
I get my Du Maurier's at the reserve. They're the exact same, but much cheaper.
6/12/2012 4:52:16 PM
or$en says:
dk's are legal
they have the sticker and the ribbon
i asked a customs agent also
6/12/2012 2:26:57 PM
imchino says:
All this drama over a product that poisons you.
...meanwhile, smoking marijuana can still get you time in prison. What a system, lol!
6/12/2012 2:57:20 PM
Circular_Logic says:
I was speaking with an old man with emphysema the other day. He told me that [quote]' wheeze, gasp, wheeze; since I had my lung removed, I cut my smokin' in HALF!!] wheeze, wheeze, gasp hack, cough {moo?}
6/14/2012 12:24:01 AM
Joey Joe Joe Jr. Shabadoo says:
certain times I get a carton with only 1 of the seals, yet the next time there are both seals?
You cant tell until you open i which I do @ home anyways.

-the 1 seal cartons are dryer and burn faster it seems...older?
6/12/2012 3:21:39 PM
cazaam says:
Why not ban all cigarettes and save money on the health care system?
6/12/2012 3:28:30 PM
crazyforweed says:
when they start selling export'a for $4.00-$5 a pack ... then i will buy them at our local stores in town , until then you can take your non sense where the sun dont shine ! dk's ,putters,sago are legal !
6/12/2012 3:57:33 PM
TBDR says:
in fairness, he was talking about contraband cigs, not FN smokes
6/12/2012 4:34:57 PM
crazyforweed says:
contraband smoke's being what? like the american ciggs? that are not much cheaper when you do the conversion into canadian dollars? because to be honest i have never heard or seen anyone selling these "contraband" smokes in town so i am at lost with this whole news bit..
6/12/2012 9:09:23 PM
publicdomain says:
I think the campaign against contraband cigarettes is specifically aimed at regaining lost tax revenue. We all know that smoking is harmful to ourselves and to others around us. No one needs a lecture.

Do aboriginal Canadians not have the right to operate businesses to fulfill the wants and needs of other Canadians while making a living to support themselves? Why should it be against the law for others to purchase their product? Smokers will buy cigarettes where they are the cheapest every time. The product is grown and harvested and processed to resemble the final product. No different than buying perogies from the hall down the street. Yes smoking is unhealthy, but over the long term, so is eating a lot of perogies.

This isn't about teens, it's about taking away the rights of people to sell their product, and peoples choices of where to purchase goods.
6/12/2012 4:25:36 PM
trent says:
I'm confused as to what counts as "contraband" tobacco. Which of these?

1) Name brand smokes bought on the reserve (players, du maurier)

2) FN branded smokes (DKs, Putters, Sago)

3) Those really cheap ones that come in a plastic bag
6/12/2012 5:30:24 PM
Bool says:
Outlaw all tabbaco then only outlaws will have them!
6/12/2012 5:53:32 PM
tiredofit says:
Quote: "Bryans told council that the distribution and sale of contraband not only hurts small businesses and government through tax evasion, but also contributes to organized crime and the deterioration of the community."

So, if I read that right, he's basically calling the fine FWFN folks organized criminals???

Sounds more like a bunch of whiny retailers complaining about losing revenue off of something that's killing their clients.

Each to their own I guess.
6/12/2012 6:09:02 PM
Arch Stanton says:
Quote: "urging them to support a motion to eradicate contraband tobacco."

This is DELUSIONAL!

Making laws (which we already have) does not prevent crime!
6/12/2012 6:49:02 PM
waterunderthebridge says:
Again from CSIC -


According to Health Canada, most of Canada’s contraband tobacco has been and continues to be smuggled from the U.S. side of the Akwesasne community. Factories located on the American side of Akwesasne produce and package cigarettes in zip-lock bags. Smugglers then buy and transport this cargo to the Quebec and Ontario side of the reserve, crossing the St. Lawrence River by boat. However, in the past few years, a number of illegal manufacturing operations have seen day of light in Canada. In a report released in 2010, the RCMP estimated that there are approximately 50 illegal manufacturing sites in Canada.
6/12/2012 8:16:52 PM
breanneanderson says:
This is ridiculous. Either way teens are going to buy cigarettes. Most people like a challenge, and that's what they're doing. Challenging teens. They're not going to see it as a challenge to quit smoking, they're just going to find other means to obtain cigarettes. Especially if they like smoking. Although underage smoking isn't good, all this work to catch people buying 'contraband' smokes isn't gonna do any good either. They should invest money in youth centers for anti-smoking and paying addiction's counselors to go talk at the high schools. The city should start providing more alternatives for the city youth before pointing out their vices.
6/12/2012 8:25:23 PM
yer joking says:
First it wa sthe Health Unit worrying about unpaid taxes now it's the retailers worrying about contraband cigarettes "infiltrating our seniors’ homes, our high schools and your places of business." It's crazy there are people smoking cigarettes they didn't buy from us. Where do these people come from ? Is this town flypaper for freaks? I'm getting scared! I need a smoke.
6/12/2012 10:47:52 PM
wayne says:
TBDR, do you not recall the TBNewsWatch story from May 14th?

"Cigarettes may be less expensive to buy on Fort William First Nation, but the penalty for possessing them within Thunder Bay city limits could set you back hundreds of dollars or more."
6/12/2012 11:23:40 PM
wayne says:
p.s. TBDR, did you not read the following quote in this story:

"The city’s close proximately to First Nation communities and Manitoba makes it a potentially ideal location for trafficking illegal cigarettes."
6/12/2012 11:35:33 PM
faster says:


Read it again folks:
Grand River Enterprises (GRE)
As an indicator of growth, the number of cigarette cases produced over the last three years has greatly increased. In January 2001, GRE produced 4,500 cases of cigarettes. In January 2002, GRE produced 10,200 cases and in January 2003, 25,600 cases were produced, or 250 million cigarettes.

GRE exports 80% of its brands (such as Seneca) that are usually sent by truck to free trade zones in California, Florida, Idaho, Nebraska, Nevada, New York and Oklahoma. Duty is paid by the importers and then the cigarettes are resold.

Canadian GRE brands for Canada include Sago, D.K, and Putter's Light. GRE has permission to sell its cigarette to non-natives through convenience stores in every province east of Ontario.


6/13/2012 12:20:36 AM
unionbay880 says:
I got an idea.....stop your filthy habit you dirty smokers.
6/13/2012 5:28:44 AM
Ibrando says:
Hey Watkins, how about a class action lawsuit against all first nations for introducing tobacco to the europeans in the first place? C'mon you know you want to.
6/13/2012 9:06:26 AM
tbayguy009 says:
And this is how government lobbiests work.

Dear Dave Bryans if you are representing the Ontario Convenience Stores Association, I can only assume that you are flying around the province on their behalf.

Your claim for a need for municipalities to 'support a motion to eradicate contraband tobacco' is absolutely silly. I hope you are an educated person (being a CEO doesn't necessarily prove that), so follow me along on some logical thinking here. Contraband is illegal already, and that would imply that federal laws (and perhaps provincial laws) are already in place. It is the job of police to deal with the law. Not some CEO lobbiest.

In fact if this is your 'job' as CEO then I would suggest that members of your organization are wasting a lot of money. They pay fees obviously, from profits extorted from their customers. This is not a service worth my money.

The City Council here has more important things to do.

Roads and sewers. A treatment plant failure, not a flood equals lawsuit.
6/13/2012 9:10:45 AM
dad3192 says:
I still don't understand why a law cant be made to make it illegal for youth under 18 to possess tobacco products period! If we can prevent youth from smoking, health care cots will go down, and the population should be healthier in general.
But then again, that cuts into the market, and money to the government and tobacco businesses....
When I sent letters to the minister of health about that, he stated "we'd rather go after the stores selling to under age smokers". Drive by any high school on any gievn day and see how well that is worker honorable minister.....what a joke...
6/13/2012 9:27:04 AM
unknowncronic says:
The day ALCOHOL is taken off the shelves, I'll quit smoking...
6/13/2012 9:48:53 AM
unknowncronic says:
Outlaw all ALCOHOL then only outlaws will have it!
6/13/2012 9:50:33 AM
faster says:


Read it again folks:
Grand River Enterprises (GRE)
As an indicator of growth, the number of cigarette cases produced over the last three years has greatly increased. In January 2001, GRE produced 4,500 cases of cigarettes. In January 2002, GRE produced 10,200 cases and in January 2003, 25,600 cases were produced, or 250 million cigarettes.

GRE exports 80% of its brands (such as Seneca) that are usually sent by truck to free trade zones in California, Florida, Idaho, Nebraska, Nevada, New York and Oklahoma. Duty is paid by the importers and then the cigarettes are resold.

Canadian GRE brands for Canada include Sago, D.K, and Putter's Light. GRE has permission to sell its cigarette to non-natives through convenience stores in every province east of Ontario.


6/13/2012 10:00:00 AM
Tom Sanderson says:
The only reason people smoke the discounted cigs is because the greedy government has taxed the hell out of them on this side of the tracks.
The war on nicotine is the same as the war on cocaine...it will never be won. They may as well forget about it as it is a waste of time and money.
6/13/2012 10:38:20 AM
eddylives says:
Yet another hole to pour money into.....and us tax payers keep the pitcher full.
Tobacco will be around for many years and there is no way around that fact.
The more they drive up prices for "legal" products only fuels the profiteers motivation for an underground economy.
6/13/2012 1:33:12 PM
bool says:
This is not the first time that the cost of tabacco has given way to smugling ( aroung 1998 i believe). Drop the price back down to 3.50 a pack like they did last time the price shot up. It cleared this problem up before and it will solve it again.
6/13/2012 3:55:16 PM
brooky says:
"CEO of Ontario Convenience Stores Association"

LOL. Really? CEO? So who's thew CEO of picking up dog poop in Ontario?
6/13/2012 8:04:47 PM
maggie says:
Every few months there seems to be something new about smoking,didnt take long for a new thought to come to mind. Why not get off this kick about smoking and concentrate on the gas prices here in Thunder Bay and keep harping on it as you do about smokers.
Why not go after the govn to give out FREE
6/14/2012 9:40:18 AM
maggie says:
Every few months there seems to be something new about smoking,didnt take long for a new thought to come to mind. Why not get off this kick about smoking and concentrate on the gas prices here in Thunder Bay and keep harping on it as you do about smokers.
Why not go after the govn to give out FREE AIDES TO HELP THE SMOKERS TO QUIT instead of charging 30-40 dollars PLUS TAX
All this is about as mentioned is the small stores and govenment losing money. Drop the prices and they will get their bussiness back. We might be smokers but not stupid. Hey Mr CEO wouldnt you rather pay 4.00 for the same thing that sells for 10.00 in town?? Oh sorry you dont smoke just see $ signs. Would be interesting to see if the prices were dropped how much commotion or complaining we would see then.
6/14/2012 9:49:57 AM
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