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2012-07-09 at 17:26

More towers

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
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Cell sites and towers, not mobile units, will be the solution to TbayTel’s network problems, says the company’s CEO.

The local utility unveiled one of its three new mobile units on Canada Day in order to minimized some of the strain on the network. The company had another mobile unit at Blues Fest to serve an area expected to host an increased number of mobile phone users.

The company purchased three of the units as a temporary fix in order to improve coverage in certain areas of the city.

Some of the worst areas reported in the city for coverage include Northwood, Current River, areas in Westfort, the intercity area and near Confederation College.

But in order to have a permanent solution, president and CEO Don Campbell said they will need to put up more towers and cell sites.

“The Cellular-on-wheels mobile cell site will be used where we have particular concerns, but which the permanent solutions aren’t necessarily fast enough,” Campbell said.

“For instance if a tower is required there’s a public consultation process but it doesn’t change the problem that a tower is required. (The mobile units) are low, not as effective but nonetheless do provide the service in these particular areas. They become a portable, temporary fix that allows us to do the right things in the public and the right things on the buildings.”

He said he wasn’t sure if they would be deploying the COWs in the weaker areas but they will remain an option for the company.

The permanent solution is placing a cell site in the area or in the case of a residential area like Northwood which doesn’t have many two or three storey buildings to give a good signal, a cell tower is needed, he said.

Around one per cent of calls made in the city are dropped with the vast majority going through.

Across the city and the region, they have about 125 cell sites but Campbell didn’t know offhand how many cell towers TbayTel has.

Campbell mentioned there are alternatives to cell sites that are already up and running.

Two examples he gave were the in building sites at the Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre and the Thunder Bay International Airport. Those two sites take some of the traffic off the network.

The company raised its invest into the 4G wireless network to more than $9 million. The move was because of the huge demand on the network, Campbell said.

TbayTel has about 100,000 customers in the city and in the region and in order to provide the best service possible, placing new towers and cell sites may have in the near future, he said.

“We’re installing in building cell sites where a lot of people congregate,” he said.

“We’re going to install low height, cell locations on two or three storey buildings. And if only a cell tower will do we will go through public consultation.”

 

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Comments

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Ranma says:
So I need to ask this..why was this a surprise to Tfailtel? That areas that people congregate will have serious issues. It should have been a no brainer that more towers would be needed in the Intercity area, and Con College. Yet they tried to save as much money as possible and deploy the absolute bare minimum. And now they have paid the price in their reputation.

Before the whole upgrade, Tbaytel was awesome. Their CDMA network was flawless, and they should have used those numbers to realize where people are in this city. But they obviously dropped the ball, and now Tfailtel will be losing a LOT of customers once competition comes to the city.

And one percent of phone calls drop? HAHAHAHA! maybe during a good hour one percent of phone calls drop, at like 4 AM. Your network sucks, and EVERYONE knows it. Too bad too. We need you for tax purposes. Maybe this was all planned so Tbaytel could be sold for a short term profit, by a short sighted council??
7/9/2012 7:02:15 PM
Sui Generis says:
There IS competition, and some of us still choose to stay with Tbaytel.

My entire family have cellphones through tbaytel. I have absolutely no complaints with our service. Aside from fair pricing and more than acceptable coverage, their amazing customer service convinced me to leave Shaw and resume Tbaytel services for internet and television, as well.

Figured it was only fair to see that there are customers who are happy with their service.
7/9/2012 8:12:46 PM
realist says:
They've built close to 30 HSPA sites in the city, up from 16 or 17 CDMA sites and have invested $26-Million in HSPA technology in Thunder Bay so far. That's a lot of capital, with $9-Million more budgeted for the rest of 2012.

Care to show me one other local company who has made that kind of investment in our economy?

At what dollar figure will you no longer consider them to "have deployed the absolute bare minimum?"

I think most of your anger lies with the fact you've applied for numerous jobs at tbaytel, only be denied employment.
7/9/2012 8:14:23 PM
tsb says:
You realize that virtually all cell networks have these issues, right? It isn't like mobile towers were invented specifically for TBayTel.
7/9/2012 9:28:20 PM
educator says:
I've seen the numbers and they are accurate, the network is dropping just over 1% of the calls.

You have to remember the figure is based on successful connections and does not include calls that fail to initialize.

The numbers are city wide, so for every dropped call in a weak service area, 1000 calls will go through without issue elsewhere.

I also find the article misleading. I've had no issues in Current River; my wife and I walk around Boulevard and I golf at Strath and I'm able to use my phone without fail.

Confederation College is in Northwood, so why was there a need to separate the two? I have tried to use my phone in Northwood and Westfort and yes those two areas definitely need some work.

I've never had an issue in the intercity area, but I do know people who have had calls and texts fail.

Cellular is not a defined technology, there is no formula in place saying you need "x" amount of towers for "y' number of customers.

Tbaytel is spending millions, cut them a break.
7/10/2012 12:17:37 AM
Impulsive says:
I'd be more willing to cut them a break if I haven't had utterly miserable service for nearly two years. Their new network clearly was not ready to be implemented, and still isn't in several areas, after this much time? Come on.

I understand that they've invested a lot of money, but their customers who are tied into contracts have also put a lot of their money into a service that, in many areas, simply doesn't work. At some point, someone should be held accountable for this. I appreciate that they're working to amend this problem, but allowing to get this bad in the first place comes down to simple incompetence on the part of TBayTel.
7/10/2012 11:10:03 AM
today says:
TBay tel has the most expensive and highest (experienced) business profile of people on it's executive board. We pay for their expertise? I don't think that we are getting our money's worth....there is something amiss in this administration.
7/9/2012 7:25:14 PM
Steven says:
The instant Bell comes in fully with guns blazing, Tfailtel will lose each and every one of their customers. They have had the gaul to rip us off for years, then gift us back some money, telling us we should thank them for it.

We probably have the most expensive cell service in the world here in Canada, and Thunder Bay is one of the most expensive in Canada.
Can't wait for Bell to get here fully and I'm getting out of Tbaytel. Poor Service, high prices.
7/9/2012 7:58:35 PM
cachinnate says:
I think you got it backwards.

Anyone thinking of moving to Bell should have their head examined. During times I've lived away from Thunder Bay, I've paid much much more for similar services with Bell (cell as well as TV, internet & home phone) compared to what I've paid at TBaytel.
Customer service with Bell is virtually non-existant, and when you can get through to them, it's just plain bad. I've talked to others with same experience too.
7/10/2012 11:02:46 AM
debt collector says:
We both know that, but arguing with "Steven" or one of his other personalities is a waste of time. He prefers his fictional version of events, even when presented with factual information.

According to "Steven" the whole city is corrupt, they only exist to screw him and his other personalities over.
7/10/2012 10:17:38 PM
grim reaper says:
they should atleast bend the towers some and make them flash morse code like other important structures in the city
7/9/2012 8:06:57 PM
wayne says:
Can't wait to hear the complaints about how these proposed new cell towers will reduce property values and cause health problems.
7/9/2012 8:13:23 PM
kbecker says:
I have a phone on the new HSPA network since January 2011 and I have not had a single issue with them, unless there is scheduled work being done but they tell us the service will be degraded during that time, but even then I have not had issues.
7/9/2012 8:14:26 PM
advocate says:
Get The Big Boss Man and Akeem here. Now those are towers.
7/9/2012 9:20:39 PM
monicker says:
First, I have no problem understanding for every cent I pay one of my calls are dropped "per cent". In fact I experience no less then 4-5 dropped calls a day.

Second, If it was just the dropped calls I'd be less frustrated but lets not forget the 2 day old text messages or the 1 week old voice-mail messages.

Third, this company's more recent marketing message was "no excuses" so suck it up.

Forth, This company repeatedly used false advertising indicating even today a wireless coverage area it does not have in Northwood, Current River, areas in Westfort, the intercity area and near Confederation College and lets not forget Lakehead University and the Grandview Area (oh wait thats more then 50% of Thunder Bay before you can even get connected to have a dropped call).

Fifth, lets not forget this company pays a dividend to the city to spend on bad ideas, instead of investing the money into the infrastructure that generates money, improves infrastructure, or reduces costs.
7/9/2012 9:33:41 PM
tiredofit says:
I had it out with their customer service today about the poor service. Their first suggestion was that I should turn off my data to help improve service... ummm.. I want my iPhone with Data thank you, that's what I purchased. Long story short, got the song and dance about making it better, in three months it will be all better. Told them I wasn't happy and they agreed to discount my service by 50% for the next 3 bills. While not a total solution, it does help a bit with the frustration.

They need to fix this, more than half of those 100,000 customers are FED UP with the service they pay for. Because Bell is pushing its way into the are and I for one will jump ship if it's not fixed by the time their ready. I'm all for support local business to a point, however you need to provide a decent service to keep us folks... Can you Hear Me Now DON??
7/9/2012 9:53:13 PM
Impulsive says:
You are not alone. I've had nothing but problems with my service for nearly two years now, and I know a lot of people in the same situation. Those who've had no issues are lucky to live in unaffected areas, but for those of us impacted, trying to make a simple phone call is a frustrating ordeal.

However, please keep in mind that the customer service reps at TBayTel are not responsible for these issues, and getting angry with them only makes their jobs more stressful. While I'm incredibly frustrated with the higher-ups at TBayTel for the service problems, by and large the customer service reps have been kind and understanding, have given me several discounts, and a few have gone way above and beyond to attempt to address these issues.

Put the pressure on where the problem really lies - and that's a few levels higher than the people answering the phones.
7/10/2012 11:18:45 AM
trent says:
"Around one per cent of calls made in the city are dropped with the vast majority going through."

Does this account for when someone tries to call a TBayTel customer, but it just goes straight to voicemail? Or when I have my phone turned on, but the reception is so bad in town the person trying to call me gets a message saying "The cellular customer is not taking calls at this time"? That 1% figure seems far too low considering what I've experienced thus far.
7/9/2012 10:07:10 PM
trevor99 says:
the tbaytel board is made up allegedly of tbay's best and brightest, movers and shakers. They hired Peter Dietrich, who was going to lead tbaytel into the next decade. 18 months or less later, he was gone. In comes Mr. Campbell, fresh from Bowater and he has hired many former bowater managers. They may be good, they may not be.

What is not in dispute is that tbaytel is providing horrible service. This is not new. dropped calls have been happening for well over a year. They allowed cell service expansion beyond their ability to provide reliable service. That did not just happen. Someone is at fault and someone or some people should be held accountable, but it won't happen. It seems those at the top in tbay, rarely have to answer for the lousy performance they provide, no matter which department it happens to be in. It is a common theme in this city. One would hope that would change but history suggests otherwise. We seem doomed to a level of incompetence that should be unacceptable
7/9/2012 11:27:01 PM
humnchuck says:
In the Future Shop lot today I had 2 bars, and there's a dead spot consistently (for me anyway) near the Harbour Expressway and Balmoral with no bars at all. For the $85+ a month TBayTel is getting for my data and voice service, I'd expect a bit more.

We need a Wind Mobile-type competitor.
7/9/2012 11:43:54 PM
pub27 says:
There is competition in the city, but that's it, only in TBay. A person can get any provider in Canada, except between Hearst and (some in TBay) the Manitoba border, where is the CRTC in this matter?? Greed is all I have to say, I hope something is done about this soon because TBaytel's monopoly has to stop, it's unfair to the consumer, and anyone traveling through (or staying) in the area.
7/10/2012 7:15:57 AM
Mill rat says:
How this for a solution. Bring in Bell Mobility. Tbay tel has bit off more than they can chew as anyone who is a tbaytel tel customer can attest to.
7/10/2012 7:37:59 AM
trent says:
Bell is currently working on it... and I doubt I'm the only dissatisfied customer anxious to jump ship from TBayTel.
7/10/2012 8:59:27 AM
Dan Dan says:
The claim of a 1% dropped call rate is baseless fraud!
7/10/2012 9:12:23 AM
TbayMan says:
Why do you people think that there is no competition? It's plain and simple... Big companies don't care about Northwestern Ontario... we are a headache for them. There is too much land too much money to invest and not enough profit for them. That's why Rogers left. They didn't want to upgrade their network here... and now that TBaytel has done it for them they are pleased with their contract with the company. When Bell comes here you will see that they are going to be just as bad and they will not invest in our area... Be careful what you ask for people. Tbaytel did these companies a favor by providing this service so that the CRTC wouldn't make them spend money on towers in our area just to get NW Ontario with the same technology. Bell may be good at first but I believe that people are better off sticking with Tbaytel in the long run... my 2 cents!!
7/10/2012 9:21:04 AM
Concerned Citizen says:
We should sell Tbaytel while it's gone some value (i.e. it's customer base, because we all know its infrastructure is not worth anything to competitors). With Bell coming in, expect to see those dividends decline. Keep in mind Dryden telephone is costing their City $7M/year. Not hard to imagine a distant future where Tbaytel could cause our city a $20M deficit.
7/10/2012 9:31:19 AM
trueself says:
Most of you people need to get a real problem. Seriously...you drop a call or your text is delayed? Perhaps open your own communications company or spend your time assisting someone in real need. Get off your phone or your computer and do something.
7/10/2012 10:10:37 AM
Impulsive says:
It's a "real problem" because people are paying good money for a service that doesn't work. Would you want to hear "get a real problem" if your plumbing or electricity was cutting out every day while you were being charged for the service?

I don't care what the service is - if the company can't deliver the services their customers signed binding contracts for, someone should be held accountable.
7/10/2012 12:25:45 PM
trueself says:
And you obviously have no idea what "real problems" are. Electricity and water are a necessity, a cell phone is not. When I don't like a company or service, I don't deal with them and choose to put my money elsewhere. There is Telus and Koodo don't forget...oh wait...they aren't good enough either are they?
7/10/2012 2:02:29 PM
Impulsive says:
What on earth does it matter? It's still a service that customers are paying for, on contract, and that service should work. You're far too dismissive of this because it's not a "real problem" in your eyes. Well, reality check - you don't get to decide that for all TBayTel customers.

Do you know how many people use and rely on their services for work/business, or as their sole means of communication? Many people are cell-only these days. Say there's an emergency, and you're unable to get a signal or connect with emergency services. Would you say that's not a "real problem"?
7/10/2012 3:02:48 PM
Glyder says:
What an ignorant statement! How about the people that use their phones for their business? Contractors, etc? They ARE doing something, and if their service, which they pay a lot of money for, is shoddy resulting in lost calls/texts, that can translate into lost business.

Not everyone uses their phones for Angry birds, or texting their pre-teen friends or calling the local radio station to hear the latest Bieber song. Some of us use them for work/business.
7/10/2012 2:14:03 PM
student21 says:
please tell me i wasnt the only one horrified to see how much of a eyesore and how ugly the one in the middle of the marina is... the rackety fence leaning around the base is a nice cake topper.

For our new, beautiful marina i'd expect there to be standards for how a fixture looks and that it has to look clean and maintained. As well as a demand for it to at least not look so out-of-place and ugly.
7/10/2012 10:38:17 AM
WI-FI Guy says:
The entire city could be outfitted with new Wi-Fi technology from a canadian company leading the way in solutions to network traffic problems. Very inexpensive relative to towers
7/10/2012 10:50:58 AM
Tom Sanderson says:
As soon as all the whiners in this city shut up about the cell companies wanting to place a tower here or there your cell reception will improve 100%. Don't be blaming the cell companies for your woes. It's your high and mighty neighbour that is the problem. Cell phone coverage isn't in the Charter of Rights or an essential need. It's a service you've purchased and its a service which has a few issues. Issues you knew about before signing the contract but you had to have that new iPhone so you dove in. Don't be blaming tbaytel for your stupidity.
7/10/2012 10:56:44 AM
theonlyopinionthatmatters says:
I have heard horror stories from people in regards to tbaytel but have yet to encounter a major problem yet. I have noticed its most of my friends with iphones that are encountering a lot of problems.

I do feel competition is needed to keep them honest however, but the donations to the city and community should not be ignored.

Rogers and tbaytel knew what they were doing when they merged to monopolize the smart phone market, if your that fed up with them you can always go back to Blackberry (shudder) and Koodo.
7/10/2012 11:01:06 AM
educator says:
Have any of you ever stopped to ask why other companies have not built more than a handful of towers in Northwestern Ontario?

A) Cost - there are too few customers for the amount of revenue

B) Size - the service area is well over 300,000 sq kms

C) Demographics - the population is shrinking and the average age is trending upward

D) Attitude - do you think companies want to deal with attitudes they see everyday on the internet

E) Incumbents - you might not think tbaytel, Telus, Koodo, DMTS, KMTS or NorthernTel are doing a good job but their potential competitors do and that's why they are not investing in Northwestern Ontario

To sum it up - the ROI is not there. There's a reason the existing providers and new entrants into the Canadian cellular marketplace have long ignored the area.
7/10/2012 11:31:53 AM
truthteller99 says:
how come nobody is complaining about more towers going up like they are when Bell tries to do it? The closed shop and good ole boy network at tbaytel, cronisim, nepotism, is being exposed as this company is a complete joke, and the population is finally seeing the REAL tbaytel. To the customers who have had great service, god bless ya, cause it is few and far between. Talk to anyone who using their services for business cell and see the reaction. This is the little company that CAN'T, and I for one am excited for Bell/Telus to rumble through here and give the wireless customers an HSPA network option besides tbay's garbage.
7/10/2012 11:39:42 AM
grim reaper says:
@pub27

your catching on fast about our part of Ontario. Just get used to being left out of the loop on everything & just learn to sit back & pay up for cell service cause they got us good right now.

The monopoly goes alot deeeeeeeper than just tbaytel here in town

cant say too much else
7/10/2012 11:55:41 AM
passlake says:
If Bell comes to town, I will stay with Tbaytel.

I've been with them for over 10 years and probably used every tower they own through the region, and guess what? I rarely have issues. Customer service has always been what I expect, and in the rare occasion I have needed service (mostly for internet), the technicians have been great...

I'll be happy to continue to support Tbaytel
7/10/2012 12:34:08 PM
stuck? says:
A lot of my issues were and still are connectivity signal strength. HSPA/4G label is laughable. Nothing HSPA or 4G about the service at all... My not-even-3.5-megabit DSL is faster than the HSPA/4G....

Hardware/connectivity issues aside, another thing I'm disappointed about are some managers/supervisors who talk down to their customers who are looking for answers. (perhaps) intentionally misleading and putting words in our/their mouths.

One woman (no name) argued with me because I was trying to point out that 25% off one part of my bill and 25% off another part of my bill is NOT 50% OFF MY TOTAL BILL. She continued to say "so you're telling me you WANT 50% off your total bill?" i tried to explain again "OH.. so you want 100% off your bill???"

They don't listen, they tell you it's your fault. When I got rid of my OLD non-compliant phone and got one straight from Tbaytel, those problems that were "my fault" should have disappeared. But they didn't.
7/10/2012 2:19:38 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
I bet TBayTel has 4x the number of employees they really need.
7/10/2012 2:28:36 PM
stuck? says:
I know a couple personally, and they agree that it is indeed a complete sheet-show.

Another person I spoke to who doesn't work there any more spoke about how he got shuffled through every department in the company without ever having any proper training. Being on the floor with a phone and fielding calls, not knowing exactly what to tell these pee-oe'd customers.

I really empathize with the people who are on the low end of the pole. They have people calling in pee'd off because they get no service, and whenever they call somebody gives them information that goes against what the last person told them.

I want to stay with Tbaytel. I like local and I sure as heck don't want to switch to Bell, but if service doesn't shape up, I will just cancel internet and mobility.
7/10/2012 3:11:12 PM
Tbayman says:
Actually the company has about 420 employees. Considering the amount of work that they have and the amount of money they make they are way under staffed.
7/10/2012 11:04:47 PM
barry medawin says:
Oh great! More ugly towers to destroy what's left of our view! They should just crank the power on the towers they have, I know this would work just as well.
7/10/2012 2:46:54 PM
sumdood says:
Coverage stinks around town.....for saying there is great coverage at the airport why is it all i see on my phone there is either and X or SOS, same goes for the mall and several parts of the city. In these high user areas you'd think they would have the best coverage! Tired of paying well over $120 every month to be able to not get charged overage with my usage pattern and not even get reliable coverage.
7/10/2012 7:29:39 PM
TbayMan says:
I only have one more thing to say!!! Thank you tbaytel. Why you ask?
1. For being one of the biggest employers in tbay 2) for giving a much needed dividend to the city 3) for supporting most local events... That's right forget about blues fest if they leave town as well as the chill and a few others 4) for caring about bringing high tech solutions to our city when other big companies spit on us 5) for giving those rip off artists shaw competition in our area so that they can't continue to rip people off. I know it's not always perfect, but at least it's coming from our neighbors and we should all be proud. Too many people don't see the big picture and I find it sad. I love thunder bay, and we could do so much better by standing up for each other instead of fighting your own neighbors. My 2 cents. So that is 6 cents now!!! :)
7/10/2012 11:14:33 PM
stuck? says:
you call shaw ripoff artists, so what exactly is tbaytel then?

paying high rates for little/lousy service and disinfomration sure sounds like a ripoff to me.

They are getting better, but they should have had a little more organization going into the partnership with Rogers before everybody transitioned over.

At least I have 1 bar instead of zero bars at most places I go to in the city now.
7/11/2012 10:37:09 AM
Impulsive says:
You are right that they do many good things for the city/community, and I applaud them for that. But they're not a charity, they're a business, and that means they should be held to some professional standard. If they can't deliver the services they promise, that is a problem they need to fix, and quickly.
I want to support TBayTel as much as anyone, but they're not entitled to my loyalty as a customer just be because they're local - they need to deliver quality services to earn that loyalty, and right now, for a lot of their customers, they are failing miserably.
7/11/2012 2:27:25 PM
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