Liquor license, not water sales, behind Blues Fest no bottle policy: Hurtig

dchipy says:

Anyone with youtube can find video's on how to reseal bottled water after filling them with alcohol, if people are going to bring in their own booze they are going to any no amount of securty measures is going to stop them.

7/12/2012 1:01:14 PM

tbaykatrina says:

I truly understand them not wanting you to bring in filled water bottles even sealed as you outlined, but I don't understand why they don't want empty ones...especially when they sell bottled water and have a bottle refilling station on site provided by the city.

7/12/2012 1:52:26 PM

Chaos says:

So what was the good reason for not allowing one to leave with a water bottle?

7/12/2012 1:33:54 PM

unionbay880 says:

It is up to the vendor to keep people from leaving the site with alcohol so when they fill their personal water bottle with booze and leave the licenced area the vendor / permit holder can be charged. Easy to spot the beer cups when people are walking out and stop them.

7/13/2012 12:38:33 PM

tbaykatrina says:

So then if they have the water station there from the city I should be able to enter with an empty bottle and fill it there and leave with the same empty bottle. problem solved

7/12/2012 1:47:55 PM

idontknowitall says:

I posed this question to one of the security people checking bags, etc. I didn't bother trying to bring in an empty bottle, expecting the response I got, but I was thinking that allowing one empty bottle/small thermos per person would go a long way to less plastic being purchased and thrown in the garbage. I'm not questioning their liquor license rules, but I don't understand how an empty bottle coming in or leaving would constitute a potential problem. Am I missing something?

7/12/2012 2:01:47 PM

Reignmaker says:

Bringing a bottle in or out becomes a logistical nightmare as every bottle can be closed with liquor in it and hidden on the person.

I for one don't want full body searches of every exiting person.

7/12/2012 2:58:23 PM

RealityCzech says:

Not being allowed to bring in food and beverages and empty bottles probably has something to do with the fact that vendors pay to sell their wares at the bluesfestival. How can the city realistically expect anyone to be willing to pay a fee to operate a concession if people attending the invent in turn are given an opportunity to not purchase at least one bottle of water.

Is it really such a big deal to purchase one bottle of water from a vendor for $2.00 and then have it refilled for free at the city tap?

7/12/2012 3:03:47 PM

Gord says:

Nope I don't buy it. From a liquor license point of view, what is the difference between bringing in an empty bottle or buying a bottle water after you come in. Either way, you can use it to transmit or leave with alcohol? Better luck next time with the lame reason - this is about vendor satisfaction - end of story

7/12/2012 3:53:36 PM

Harvey P. says:

You can reseal water bottles??
You Tube here I come!!!

Was water super expensive?

7/12/2012 4:00:57 PM

Reignmaker says:

"Nope I don't buy it. From a liquor license point of view, what is the difference between bringing in an empty bottle or buying a bottle water after you come in. Either way, you can use it to transmit or leave with alcohol?"

You cannot leave the premises with a bottle either. Thus, your argument doesn't make sense. Technically, they shouldn't allow you to have anything that can be resealed in the park. No water bottles sold, or pop. A bottle that can be closed, can be used to transfer alcohol outside of the area allowed. THat is unless we hire more guards and do full body searchs all the time. Which seems worse that not allowing sealable bottles. At least to me.

7/12/2012 4:24:37 PM

Gord says:

If you read the story, you would see that this wasnt my argument - it was the excuse offered by the Blues Festival organizers. They blamed the liquor license for the inability to bring in empty bottles. I agree with you that it makes no sense if you are selling the same water bottles - that was my exact point.

7/13/2012 12:52:49 PM

idontknowitall says:

To my knowledge there were no body searches, so if someone wanted to try and sneak a container in, it was still possible. @RealityCzech: I don't have any problem with paying $2 for water (which is what I did, and I used the refill station often). My question is - why create additional waste when it's not necessary? As for taking empty bottles out of the park - not once in 3 days did I see anyone searched as they were leaving. In fact, we said good-nite to security as we walked past them, and they returned the sentiment. I couldn't imagine them trying to search a few thousand folks just wanting to go home. Again, I have no problem with following the rules, but the article doesn't explain anything - 'officials say they have good reason' and 'mainly to do with their liquor license' doesn't tell me much. Still had a great time, which was the main thing! Cheers!

7/12/2012 5:14:05 PM

Tom Sanderson says:

It is kind of sad that you can't bring a water bottle or water thermos to the blues fest but can take a empty water thermos through security at an airport.

7/12/2012 6:19:06 PM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

I didn't want to bring water or alcohol into the park, nor did anyone else, we wanted to bring in unsealed, empty bpafree plastic refillable water bottles to fill at the water station... How is that going to violate a liquor license? LIES!!!! The disposable water bottles they sell are unnecessary litter and cause cancer when reused. We'd all pay for water if there was a fee, which there shouldn't, being right next to the world's largest fresh water lake and after paying $100 to enter, but fine, charge us, but let us use our own water bottles. Perhaps Trevor Hurtig doesn't care if those in attendance get cancer, or destroy the environment, or die of thirst, but his answer is not only false, and misleading, it's borderline criminally negligent. For an outdoor fest to succeed you need to make sure the people have water. Period. Not everyone comes to this event ready to spend their money on water, but that doesn't mean they don't need it. We want to hear blues, not live them Auditorium!!!

7/12/2012 7:36:28 PM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

Recently there was a very successful music fest that I attended in St. Paul's Harriet Island called "River's Edge Festival" headlined by Tool and the Dave Matthew's Band, and their policy was: River's Edge will have water stations around the site. Fans can carry in empty plastic bottles, or two sealed water bottles up to 1 liter in size. & even though 50'000 attended, there were no alcohol issues, and everyone got the necessary hydration. In an interview before the fest, talking about what's needed for a fest to flourish, Tool's Maynard James Keenan said, "Take care of the people. Don't skimp on making sure they're safe. That's the most important thing. The one thing that will kill a festival in its tracks is people getting hurt. Anything stupid hurts. If it's hot out, and people are thirsty, make sure they have water -- plenty of water. Don't be a dick and try to get everyone to pay for it, because some kids come to these concerts without any money in their pockets."

7/12/2012 7:47:57 PM

wayne says:

So was this regulation something new, just implemented for this year's Blues Fest? or has it always been a regulation, but only enforced this year? Seems like people are making a big deal over paying $2 for one bottle of water and refilling it for free.

7/12/2012 7:52:59 PM

homelessteen says:

I have never been to the blues fest because of the bottles water restriction.

Is there a beer gardens or just everyone walking aropund drinking? from a logistical point of niew wouldn't it be easier to restrict usage in a specific area than the entire marina? and if it is a beer garden only the people going in and out of the area should be disqualified from entering and leaving a certain section. if not, it should come attached to the ticket cost and given freely. The city might not an infraction but how about someone droping dead from the heat. Just plain stupidity. Water is on sale for 2.5o a case at staples of all places. How much was it at the blues fest?

7/12/2012 8:52:33 PM

The Wolf says:

Empty bottle on way in is a problem? Seriously???? At $5 a beer why would someone want to try and smuggle out a beer or 2? If they were that desperate to get "bootlegged" beer it is a hell of a lot cheaper to go buy a tall boy at the liquor store for $2 which is just up the street, or people just generally that idiotic to realize the cost difference??

7/12/2012 9:06:46 PM

wayne says:

Daniel_K_Campbell says: "...some kids come to these concerts without any money in their pockets."

And how come these 'kids' can afford the price of admission but not the price of $2 for a bottle of water that comes with free refills?

7/12/2012 11:27:32 PM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

You don't seem to get the point on this score Wayne. It doesn't matter if they can afford it or not. If people are being charged an additional $2 per festival admission (+$6) to attend the blues festival, above the $94 stated ticket price, especially when the water refill stations are billed as a perk in the fest's advertising, that's a hidden charge, and that's not legal.

7/13/2012 11:04:31 AM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

You don't seem to get the point on this score Wayne. It doesn't matter if they can afford it or not. If people are being charged an additional $2 per festival admission (+$6) to attend the blues festival, above the $94 stated ticket price, especially when the water refill stations are billed as a perk in the fest's advertising, that's a hidden charge, and that's not legal.

7/13/2012 11:11:32 AM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

BTW for anyone interested in checking on the validity of Trevor Hurtig's assertion "Ontario liquor licenses are very clear regarding the promoters’ responsibilities".... here you can see exactly what the LCBO Special Event Liquor Permit states.... ......and nowhere at all does it mention; water, bottles, containers, cups, filling stations, juice, plastic, fluid, or anything to do with water or the way that we choose to drink it or bring it into a festival site. Trevor Hurtig needs to be honest with the public, rather than just force feeding us this damaging double speak that is just a towing of the corporate mantra. If you lied, that's ok, just be honest now, and say you were nervous and didn't think before speaking. You obviously always are and never do. Boo!!!

7/12/2012 11:29:45 PM

habsgirl says:

How about checking all the employee vehicles that are driven through the gates......starting with Dougall Media employees...I know for fact that certain Dougall Media employees working at the Bluesfest do bring beverages into the festival area in their vehicles....

7/13/2012 12:05:12 AM

commonsense says:

Blues Festival attendees can certainly appreciate that the City waterbar was allowed to be at the Festival this year, so we're progressing.
TB Source Editor, how about you ask the TBCA spokesperson for the exact place in the licensing rules where bringing in an empty bottle is prohibited. Once we see the proof, problem solved.

7/13/2012 12:07:19 AM

KendallJaye says:

I agree wholeheartedly. Why can't the Auditorium just show the exact phrase in the licensing rules where it says empty water bottles are not allowed, rather than willfully obfuscating? Is the honest truth that impossible for the Auditorium to express to its loyal patrons? How insulting.

7/13/2012 11:49:25 AM

KendallJaye says:

I just now looked online and learned they let you take your own sealed water bottles and/or refillable containers into Blues Festivals in Ottawa, Toronto, Kitchener, Mississauga, Sarnia, Windsor and London, as well as numerous outdoor rock concerts and Canada Day festivities all over the province... so what exactly is this Auditorium guy Trevor Hurtig talking about when he says on the news last night that Ontario Liquor laws affect all of Ontario's Blues festivals? Is this guy serious? Has he even read his own permit from LCBO??? WOW!!!!! I'm certainly not going back to the blues festival until this is sorted correctly. It was darn hot there when it wasn't raining, and I refuse to drink out of one of the junk plastic bottles when I've paid good money for my own. I really hope they do sort it because I love the Blues and this weekend concert is a great time, but really, why be dishonest in this way? Do they think no-one in Thunder Bay is smart enough to see through this lie? So Crazy!!

7/13/2012 1:45:27 AM

CJ says:

This statement is a lie. Those cities you mentions follow the same rules.

7/13/2012 11:05:43 AM

flyinjerky says:

I’m stunned that this is actually an issue. People couldn’t bring empty containers into the Bluesfest?! So…what? I think the real issue we should get behind, is that I was not allowed to bring my pet elephant Stampy into the Bluesfest. Turned away at the gate. He was on a leash!! I was told it was some sort of regulatory something or other! What a bunch of garbage!! Stampy loves the blues!!
The level of silliness that people in this city will go to at which to find something to complain about is ridiculous.
I was at the Bluesfest. I had a great time. One of the most enjoyable things was the lack of a beer tent. I could walk freely around the festival. Thank you to the festival promoters for getting that right. The only thing I found odd was the bizarre social experiment at the end of the night where the people SIT in front of the stage while all the people who want to dance are stuck around the edges. What the heck was that? Maybe the front area should be cordoned off. Just a thought. I mean, this has to be annoying for the bands playing to a bunch of people sitting, while people who want to get up and move are stuck. I had no inclination to dance, but found this truly ridiculous. It was certainly fun to watch though. Here’s a new silly topic to complain about…. “I’ve been sitting at this concert since 2 in the afternoon, now someone has the audacity to dance in front of the stage and I can’t see!! The nerve!!” LOL!!
Thanks to this article, I will be calling the auditorium officials and thank them for the lack of beer tent and let them know that a few complainers certainly do not speak for everyone. Empty bottles…. I love you guys. I’m going to be laughing about this all day!!

7/13/2012 4:43:16 AM

The Wolf says:

You obviously were never at this years or previous years Bluesfest, unless you are being sarcastic, which you failed at miserably.

7/13/2012 9:03:01 AM

stuck? says:

There was a situation last year I believe when 2 guys standing right in front of the stage and people sitting down were complaining about them standing and getting the full effect.

I could be mistaken but I recall somebody throwing something small at the two of them. They made a point in mentioning that it was a convert/festival and people SHOULD be up on their feet and not lounging in chairs.

It's definitely frustrating for musicians to see people sitting, but everybody is into the music, and you can feel it.

I've usually had a chair up in the front myself, but I totally agree that that area should be for people who want to get up and "shake their booties".

As for the bottled water? Really? Lets not forget about all of the microwaves/radiowaves floating around, wifi/cellphones, SMOKERS, and other cancer causing things encircling everybody at the blues/fest marina/city.

I'll take a chance with a $2 water bottle. it may suck but why miss out on a great blues festival because of $2?

7/13/2012 10:20:11 AM

moonpie says:

You start off criticizing people for complaining about trivial issues, then go in to a rant about an even more trivial issue - sitting vs dancing arrangements. Oh no, people that actually wanted to watch the bands play were stuck right in front of the stage??? OMG, how dare they!

I'll be laughing all day now too. Thanks for that.

7/13/2012 10:43:45 AM

dman31029 says:

Easiest solution: Bring in no bottles and drink beer in the beer gardens all day. Yum yum.

7/13/2012 8:17:30 AM

Joey Joe Joe Jr. Shabadoo says:

lol

you; put your hands in the air & step away from the plastic bottle

the DJ will be full of criminals who just didnt listen come the next festival forsure

7/13/2012 9:07:26 AM

The Badger Mountain Hermit says:

Why doesn't the LCBO and Brewer's Retail get charged for contributing to crime? Shouldn't it be delivered to your home, like pharmiceuticals?

7/13/2012 9:33:10 AM

Reignmaker says:

Daniel:

"14. (1) The Registrar may at any time review a licence and may,

(a) attach to the licence any further conditions consented to by the licensee; or

(b) issue a proposal to attach to the licence any further conditions that the Registrar considers proper to give effect to the purposes of this Act. 2002, c. 18, Sched. E, s. 7 (12)."

There may have been a condition. Even if there wasn't, the establishment has every right to do things that it feels are needed to ensure the legal usage of alcohol. As someone who has worked at events with alcohol for over a decade, I would never allow someone to bring in a sealable bottle to an event tht sells booze since the establishment is responsible for that alcohol at all times.

Your childish claims of lying are making you look ridiculous to anyone who works with booze.

7/13/2012 9:39:03 AM

tutone says:

I'm not sure why this is such a big issue. I've been to plenty of outdoor concerts (mostly outside of Thunder Bay) where they do the exact same thing. At least at the Blues Fest they probably let you all keep the water bottle lids right? At Soundset in Minni they would take them away everytime you buy a bottled drink! People were passing out everywhere from dehydration. I had to sneak in a bottle cap... nevermind a whole bottle! It could be worse people.

7/13/2012 10:00:11 AM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

Really? No water bottles at Soundset? Are you sure about that? If you went there, you'd think you'd know. Funny, so funny. No, you must be confused, the passing out everywhere from dehydration will be our Blues Festival if they don't get this sorted. Seems that Soundset already has the correct policy in place! Thanks for yet more reason to think the Auditorium is wrong here. Bravo!!!

7/13/2012 4:07:24 PM

nfa16 says:

They said water bottle LIDS. Read before you rant.

7/15/2012 8:46:41 AM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

They would take lids off of the bottles you bought, as they do in many bars, but if you brought in your own bottle, they would not take the lid off of it. That's just stupid to suggest they took the lids off of the empty water bottles that people brought in. They didn't. So maybe YOU should READ before YOU RANT nfa16.

7/15/2012 3:32:57 PM

tutone says:

I'm not sure why this is such a big issue. I've been to plenty of outdoor concerts (mostly outside of Thunder Bay) where they do the exact same thing. At least at the Blues Fest they probably let you all keep the water bottle lids right? At Soundset in Minni they would take them away everytime you buy a bottled drink! People were passing out everywhere from dehydration. I had to sneak in a bottle cap... nevermind a whole bottle! It could be worse people.

7/13/2012 10:34:15 AM

KCDirtNorth says:

WOW! I love all of the misinformation in this thread. You went to Soundset in Minneapolis & they had a no water bottle policy? So did I and they did allow water bottles. From the Soundset website.... GENERAL FAQ: Yes, there will be a location on site that will provide FREE tap water for you to stay hydrated throughout the day. For the record, we did also have free water last year too! ...... & ...... 4. What can you bring: backpacks (medium 20? tall, 15? wide and 9? thick), small beach towel, hats, (1) plastic bottle of water (must be SEALED or EMPTY), sun block, etc. So why be dishonest to make a point? We all have the internet to show that what you say is false. Rather than asking why people are so upset that they were forced to go thirsty or pay up when the Auditorium's Apex security agents so vigilantly enforced this pointless non-rule, better to ask yourselves why you're so mad at people for wanting to drink water on a broiling day at an outdoor festival?

7/13/2012 3:35:44 PM

CJ says:

Wow. What a bunch of babies we live with here in Thunder Bay. The law is the law, simple as that. Don't like it? Don't go. Stay at home on your computer in your little virtual world. The answer to thie concerns is common sense? Don't understand, then you don't have any.

7/13/2012 10:50:29 AM

Reignmaker says:

Daniel:

"14. (1) The Registrar may at any time review a licence and may,

(a) attach to the licence any further conditions consented to by the licensee; or

(b) issue a proposal to attach to the licence any further conditions that the Registrar considers proper to give effect to the purposes of this Act. 2002, c. 18, Sched. E, s. 7 (12)."

There may have been a condition. Even if there wasn't, the establishment has every right to do things that it feels are needed to ensure the legal usage of alcohol. As someone who has worked at events with alcohol for over a decade, I would never allow someone to bring in a sealable bottle to an event tht sells booze since the establishment is responsible for that alcohol at all times.

Your childish claims of lying are making you look ridiculous to anyone who works with booze.

7/13/2012 11:06:50 AM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

We weren't wanting to bring in sealed bottles to the event, we wanted to bring in open, empty containers that could be filled at the water fill station Ranemakur, so despite your objections to the contrary, you are the one who is wrong. The auditorium provided misinformation on the local news when Trevor Hurtig said that it is clearly mandated within the liquor license that empty containers are not allowed, which is obviously not the case. He also said this rule is consistent across the province, where there are bans against empty containers, which there obviously isn't, so the Auditorium is lying to cover their butts. Who do you answer to that makes you defend lies as truths? 10 years working at events with alcohol, and still no common sense gained? If an container is empty how can it have alcohol in it? It's empty. Get that? Geesh.

7/13/2012 11:22:55 AM

KendallJaye says:

I think it so funny, that the talking heads have now arrived to spread misinformation in support of the Auditorium, and levy personal attacks against those affected by this enforcement of a non-rule. I called those other festivals today, and they do allow empty water bottles. & There is no LAW against empty water bottles, so whoever said that, shake your head. I fined it interesting however, that while all the sniping and attacking is going on from the anti-water crusaders, no-one has yet answered the simple question: What is the harm in holding an empty plastic water bottle??? Please take a moment to answer that honestly before you take more shots at the honorable festival goers with your fake profiles and false agents Trevor Hurtig - Auditorium.

7/13/2012 11:38:26 AM

Daniel_K_Campbell says:

There's a great letter by John Vandergraff from Terrace Bay appearing in this week's TBay source... it sums up what a lot of us are here saying. Check it out. I totally agree with his point, "Do like they do at other festivals that allow empty drink containers. Just hold it upside down on your way out to prove that it is empty and no liquor laws will be broken." I don't think that anyone would object to proving that the container is empty on the way in, and they'd do the same thing on the way out. How long does it take to prove there's no water in a bottle? All of you negative ninnys in here might be cup half empty people, but no, we're willing to go all empty if we can have our own cups. :D

7/13/2012 12:04:02 PM

buzzerd says:

I don't think this is a big deal but I also think their reason is BS as it stops nothing. If I want to sneak in or out booze this rule doesn't present much of a road block. Some day maybe Ontario can unclench it's arse when it comes to booze.

7/13/2012 12:08:28 PM

jzahn says:

To the liberal paticipants who do not like the current law, protest to the current liberal provincial government...and change the law!

I like Quebec! Bring your own booze / water, in a cooler, to a festival! (and I am sure other provinces and states allow this)

7/13/2012 12:28:25 PM

TWM says:

What it comes down to is societal control; controling what you do or can't do and how you do it.

7/13/2012 1:59:35 PM

Reignmaker says:

A CONTAINER that can be CLOSED can then transport alcohol. Especially when a large number of BPA free containers are opaque.

You are not allowed into or out of a bar with a bottle.

The Liqour act has provisions for the responsible sale of alcohol and the AGCO has guidelines for reasonable measures that can be taken to ensure the proper sale of liqour.

As someone else stated, other festivals will just give people bottles with no top to make sure it cannot be used as a transport for alcohol. You want to bring your BPA container? Fine, just have to top taken away once you enter.

Nothing I have said is hard to understand. What you have been saying makes you seem pants on head.

7/13/2012 3:56:26 PM

chickadee says:

For all those who say what's the big deal about spending $2 on a bottle of water, well to some it is a big deal. I had to budget and save my money in order to afford going to this festival. It's great that so many have all this extra money to spend to avoid dehydration but some of us struggle to cover the cost of the show not to mention be able to have something to eat from the limited selection of deep fried unhealthy choices (but don't get me started on that one). Just because we have limited funds we should still be able to go and enjoy this festival without worrying about added expense, or is this show only for the privileged few who have no problem throwing their money away?

7/13/2012 5:32:22 PM

JYDog says:

I agree with you totally Chickadee!!! I also didn't show up prepared to shell out money for water, and yeah, sitting there baking without water was not fun and did ruin the blues festival experience for me, luckily I only had a one day pass. Next year I might go for the none day pass. Hopefully the Auditorium will do the right thing between now and then though so that I can attend, as it's a good show except for the water situation. PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM TBCA!!!!

7/15/2012 7:29:32 PM

wayne says:

All this fuss over $2 for a bottle of water. I wonder if that $2 ($6 for 3 days) ruined the blues fest experience for anyone?

7/13/2012 8:09:47 PM

wayne says:

check out the letter to the editor in the opinion section

7/13/2012 8:37:17 PM

Tom Sanderson says:

That a boy Waynie, you tell them where to go to read some more of you nonsense.
You knowitalls sure do a lot of whining about the bent poles, I'm sure there is room for someone to complain about the blues fest water bottle policy.
Your opinion isn't the only valid one.

7/15/2012 10:54:59 AM

Bent_pole says:

Maybe they wanted us to buy more water to pay for the $1 million lost to the bent poles shoved in the ground at the marina!

7/14/2012 12:25:35 PM

yer joking says:

1. Their Party.
2. Their Rules.
3. Love'em or leave'em.
It's the price we pay for the crap we take. We'll all be back ext enjoying ourselves justas much!

7/14/2012 6:27:46 PM

wayne says:

Tom the troll, with no opinion except to complain about negative comments :)

7/16/2012 7:11:41 PM