Bob's Woodburners
Wayne Toyota
Stride Orthopaedics & Footwear
Twice As Nice Thrift Store
Allstate Insurance
The Donatis brothers
News
Click here to see more
Subscribe
Community Calendar
Click here for full listings.
Poll
With summer about to arrive, the Stanley Cup playoffs continue. Has this hockey post-season been too long?



Total Votes: 19
View Results Past Polls

Market Research

There is no Market Research Poll Currently Running.

Who's Modo
User Submitted Photo Gallery
Submit Your Own Photos
Email
2012-07-31 at 15:57

Police union votes down 12-hour shift proposal

By TBNewswatch.com staff
Tony and Adam's PartiesCocktail Parties, Birthday Parties, Receptions, Showers...click here to see how Tony and Adam's is your "party place" and book yours today!Click Here

The chairman of the Thunder Bay Police Services Board confirmed Tuesday that uniformed officers have shot down another major change in their shift schedule. 

Joe Virdiramo, in an interview with CKPR Radio, said members of the Thunder Bay Police Association voted against a move that could eventually see officers work 12-hour shifts.

In 2008,  the police force and union negotiated a move from eight-hour to 10-hour shifts.

Virdiramo said they will continue to work toward a solution that works for both sides.

A police association spokesman would not comment on the vote.

Click here to submit a letter to the editor.
iCar

Click here to report a typo or error

Tbnewswatch.com(41)

Comments

We've improved our comment system.
hockeyday says:
12 hour shifts mean less overtime which means policing costs will continue to skyrocket
7/31/2012 4:00:15 PM
Ranma says:
A 12 hour shift is great, for production workers. This type of shifting saves the company money, and ensures that you only have to hire minimal staff. For cops, it would be stupid. Last thing I want is to have an officer show up at hour 11 of his shift and be exhausted and do something stupid that could make a bad situation worse.

12 hour shifts are horrible period, from a workers standpoint. After 10 hours your body just starts to want to rest, and your productivity falls drastically. It is too easy to burn out working constant 12 hour shifts. Bring back the common 8 hour work day.
7/31/2012 4:05:57 PM
ruralmedic says:
don't worry... your local paramedic will still show up after work 11.5 hours..

or your local rural paramedic after being at work for 95.5 hours...
7/31/2012 8:49:12 PM
tbay99 says:
Of course they voted it down! This way it ensures that if they do work 12 hours they will be getting overtime pay rather then regular scheduled pay. But hey its tax payer dollars so who cares right?
7/31/2012 4:11:25 PM
TBDR says:
10 doesn't go into 24. It should only be 8 or 12.... period. Its time for the police to get their budget under control. Both sides need to step up here...
7/31/2012 4:14:01 PM
dwgbuck says:
This is 100% all about the overtime pay. Which now is taken for granted.
7/31/2012 4:36:53 PM
RelaxinginMurillo says:
Did switching from 8x5 (for 40 hrs/wk) to 4x10 (again 40 hr/wk) fix anything ? Shuffling around the hours part of man-hours doesn't usually solve anything.
If you need more man-hours, you either need more men (or women) or more hours (overtime). Someone needs to make sure this is taught in Management-101.
7/31/2012 4:54:06 PM
yqtyqt says:
I agree completely
7/31/2012 5:09:21 PM
Steven says:
Ridiculous, pathetic, awful, greedy....

There are so many words that could describe this move by the police.

The big problem here is that there is nothing that we can really do about it. I have voiced my opinion through my elected officials, but nothing will change, and a massive amount of my money will continue to flood into the police budget.

WHY? Because its the police themselves who seem to determine how much money they will get. Every year, regardless of crime, regardless of anything else, they will get more and more money.

Finally, the police services board comes forward with a no brainer (12 goes into 24, 10 does not....plus so many shifts already run over 10 hours anyway, it just makes sense to do this, fiscally, and operationally) and the police shoot it down.

Can we just IMPOSE this on them? PLEASE!? Who runs this city? THEM or US!?

Somehow I think I know, and its not us.
7/31/2012 5:19:30 PM
Random says:
You realize it was the police board that came up with the 10hr shift right? Not the police.
Before you do your typical ignorant commenting, stop and think for a few minutes (tough for you I know when it comes to police, or anything public sector for that matter).
You even consider, even for a moment, that maybe it was how it would effect their home life, or anything else, other then your typical whining about them being greedy? Doubt it. You see red when it is anything police related, and refuse to look beyond the tip of your nose before you post away.
You want to IMPOSE a shift on them? That sounds democratic. You mentioned long ago, unless i'm mistaken, that you are a small business owner, if that is true, how about we IMPOSE lower prices on your goods and services?
How about we IMPOSE higher taxes on small business to take the burden off homeowners?
12 hour shifts will not cut overtime. Maybe people becoming more responsible might, or tougher jail sentences=less dirtbags.
7/31/2012 9:35:28 PM
baor says:
Hey broken record... the BOARD brought up the 10 hr, it's not working very well (see any cops around?) I personally don't understand why they wouldn't want it...they would only be at work less than half a year, but nothing should be IMPOSED on them or any worker. Find a new crusade chezhank jr.
8/1/2012 7:05:43 AM
oscarmyerweiner says:
8 hours a day is long enough for ANYONE to work. Think how tired you are after 8 hours of work and you come home from work, now your actual life begins, cooking, cleaning, yard work, taking kids out, friends, etc. You get the point. You work to live NOT live to work. Companies should learn this. A happy worker will work, a sleep deprived run down employee will not. Do you really want a cop to be exhausted on duty?
7/31/2012 5:27:28 PM
hopper says:
In theory, you're right, no one wants to be policedc by exhausted cops. In reality, they're working these hours. Just because they're on a ten hour shift doesn't mean they aren't working, they're just voting for themselves to get paid more for working overtime hours. It doesn't mean they're working less.

I would love to see some kind of shoulder-cam policy implemented with any police who have contact with the public, even experimentally. See how that works, see what changes when every encounter is documented. Are we as citizens entitled to ask police how long they have been working a shift if we encounter police? (curious to find out the answer, if anyone knows)
7/31/2012 6:29:17 PM
passlake says:
the shoulder cam thing has been done.. check out "Police POV" on Action TV..

as for asking an officer how long they are into their shift? Sure. you're certainly entitled to ask them anything you want. Most officers don't have anything to hide and will probably answer your question.

Question to you though, if they say "almost 12 hours", are you going to request a different officer?
8/1/2012 1:12:47 AM
Me n My Opinion says:
There will always be overtime in Police work. If they get called to an incident a half hour before the end of their shift, regardless of how long the scheduled shift is, they'll be there over their allotted time. I'm not sure how 12 hour shifts would fix overtime, not to mention a person with a gun shouldn't be making life and death decisions after 12 or 13 hours.

To me, 10 hours scheduled at:
8am to 6pm
5pm to 3am
midnight to 10am

This gives overlap on every shift for the outgoing shift to finish up paperwork, and also give double coverage between midnight and 3am.

Just my opinion.
7/31/2012 5:37:27 PM
hadenough says:
Interesting points and well thought out.

There indeed will be overtime regardless of what shift they work. Court appearances for instance are mandatory even if they worked the previous night shift.

I can't see how 12 hour shifts would be a benefit to either the police or to us, regardless what Steven and the other cop haters think.
8/1/2012 8:32:54 AM
jimmyboy says:
mmmmmmmmmmm...this is most interesting...looks like yet another thing that HOBBS vowed to change won't be happening as he was hoping.!

Not eight, not 12, but ten-hour shifts are the best if police departments want to reduce their overtime expenses and improve their officers' quality of life, according to a recent study from the Police Foundation published in February 7, 2012.

The Minneapolis Police Department for example, which has its patrols working ten-hour shifts, announced that it paid out its lowest amount of overtime in a decade.
the Police Foundation's study found that 12-hour shifts are actually the worst for officer's job performance and not the best for reining in overtime costs. According to the study, officers who work for half a day, three days a week are sleepier and less alert on the job than those who work eight or ten hours at a time. The report also shows that police officers with ten-hour shifts work the least amount of overtime -- five times less than those who work eight-hours.
7/31/2012 7:31:12 PM
barry medawin says:
Tired, angry, and trigger happy... not good!!
7/31/2012 8:47:47 PM
keiths31 says:
Trigger happy? Yeah...because there are so many police shooting suspects in Thunder Bay.
8/1/2012 7:31:33 AM
DazeofThunder says:
7/31/2012 9:37:44 PM
Mazda323 says:
How many of you "complainers" are currently working twelve hour shifts? How many of you want to??
I know I sure as hell wouldn't, I have a life, thanks, and I like working my eight hours and coming home and still having the time (and energy) to do some extracurricular activities. Don't you think cops deserve the same?? and you don't....why not?
7/31/2012 10:48:36 PM
tbay99 says:
People work 2-3 jobs a week totally more then 12 hour days to make MUCH less then our city cops. If they are unwilling to work 12 hour shifts CUT their overtime pay.
8/1/2012 12:10:46 PM
whitecrow says:
It would seem that some of you are not shift workers .Most shift workers do work 10 or 12 hour shifts now . In the days of 8 hr rotating shifts like at a pulp mill you would end up with one long weekend a month . Days off were split with short weekends or days off in the middle of the week. Ask anyone who worked 8 hour shifts if they would like to return from 12hr to 8hr and you will get your answer . Quality time off is what they work for now
8/1/2012 4:03:09 AM
glock9 says:
Did 12 hour shifts for 5 years straight without an issue, ever try drinking coffee ?
8/1/2012 7:31:31 AM
Chaos says:
Remember your comments next time the sunshine list comes up and 1/3 of the force is on it - to all those who mention disrupted personal lives working 12 hours 4x every 8 days, tell that to those many thunder bay'ers that work 2 to 3 part time jobs to make 30k a year - and yes they also have a highschool diploma like alot of police officers do. Police are taking away the "servant" in the term "civil servant" and replacing it with the word "entitlement". Time we compare thunder bay's average income to a police officers..not saying they should make the same, but 3x + is ridiculous. It's also unsustainable.
8/1/2012 10:12:25 AM
timeforchange says:
Officers also attend court. Imagine working 12 going to court for 4 or 6 hours then going to work for 12. If its about a cost reduction then why did Westfort Joe approve this new schedule as part of the board when they changed from 8's to 10's. I think someone in the media should ask Joe why. Did you maybe screw up a little Joe? Who in management approved this change. Seems like this is a gift from the former Chief who spent money like it was liimitless. When he wanted to get one of his officers or even a Mayor money was no object. If the above statement about 25% working 12 hours across N. America is accurate, then supporters of 12's should wonder why it is not more common. The cops voted it down. It would be nice for the union to tell us taxpayers why or do we only hear from them when the trucks light up at Christmas time.
8/1/2012 11:54:41 AM
North18 says:
Hey Chaos, your wrong when you say a lot of police officers have a high school diploma. EVERY officer has a high school diploma as it is a requirement to apply, but a lot of these officers also have some sort of university degree or college diploma to go along with it. Chaos, if your jealous of how much cops make then go and apply to be one, or don't you have your high school diploma?
8/1/2012 12:56:50 PM
Steven says:
North18,

Do you really feel that we, the taxpayer, have no right to have any say or opinion on where our money goes unless we apply for those same jobs?

Thats like saying "Don't like what a doctor makes? Go be one! Don't like what an engineer makes? Go be one!"

Doesn't work that way, bucko. I pay my taxes, and I deserve to get value for my money, and that is why I, as well as "Timeforchange" above, are commenting.

Plus, I couldn't apply for the force, because I would be considered over-qualified.

Also, FYI, most of the cops who have any education beyond high school, simply have a "police foundations" style course. These courses were created to 'over qualify' the job, creating a barrier to entry, not to actually make those people more qualified to do the job.
Ask anyone who has done these courses. They are practically worthless. Just one more thing to keep people from applying for the job.
8/1/2012 6:52:31 PM
baor says:
You would almost be believable if you had an issue with fire, ambulance, parks, environment, works, or any other city dept on a regular basis. Almost.
"Overqualified" ha ha ha hah hooo .... good one.
8/2/2012 11:11:59 AM
Chaos says:
North 18: We agree then that the minimum requirement is high school and that at least a few (if not many) officers only have it. If there are officers who have more education then they are as they say 'overqualified'. They are the one who should be applying for a different and higher qualified job not me. Not sure how it got personal North. But to brighten your day I don't have my highschool diploma, but I do plan one day to go back and get it. No I won't apply to the police force once I get my equivalent for a number of reason, but I do respect the work police do but not at this cost of over 15% of the City's budget. So don't pull me over.
8/1/2012 4:49:44 PM
baor says:
More than a HS diploma would not make a cop overqualified. Once you get your diploma, chaos read the criminal code, provincial law, and all of the rules and regulations a cop has to follow and so on .... THEN see if you could even understand it.
The cops make what they make and like any other profession have the right to vote on contract issues.
Firefighters work 4on 4off at a 14hr(the beds help) nightshift for the same money as the police and a mere fraction of the workload.....oh and with a hs diploma too....where are you there steven and chaos?
Perhaps we could impose that steven hire the soon to be overqualified chaos at his successful business.
8/1/2012 9:47:52 PM
Steven says:
I hire people without high school all the time. I also hire those with high school. Only difference, I don't pay those with high school $60000+ a year plus mega benefits, and they work they are doing is a heck of a lot more demanding physically than what cops do.

I agree with your firefighter point though boar. Firesleepers. What I would love to see police and fire budgets go into is social services (get there before they commit crimes) and ambulances. The fire sleepers are pretending to be lesser-qualified paramedics as it is. Why not just ditch them and hire the real thing?
8/2/2012 2:39:19 PM
baor says:
Physically demanding maybe ... however, mentally demanding is worse on anyone's overall health than physical labour, so your point is moot. BTY, cops make well over $80/yr
8/2/2012 7:42:57 PM
chbaker says:
Baor:

I disagree...
Firefighters have a WAY bigger workload than police.

When there's a car accident who takes care of the rescue part? Who uses jaws of life and rescues people?
Police just stand there and direct traffic.
When someone falls into the lake or river, the firefighters go and rescue them, while police stand around and direct traffic.
When there's a fire, the firefighters actually go in and PUT THE FIRE OUT..
Unlike police when there's a standoff...They just stand around and wait for the guy to come out. Think if firefighters did that to your burning house.

Firefighters actually save lives.
Police do not. They don't even prevent crime.

Cut police funding.
8/2/2012 11:29:27 AM
random says:
Chbaker, EXPLAIN the firefighter workload, tell me how they work harder, or do more. Back your statement please (bet you can't).
Remember when the call for service for police and fire used to be published? Guess why they aren't anymore.
Last I ever saw, it was the paramedics saving lives at a car accident, firefighters standing around for photo ops, police staying behind doing the work, and firefighters going back to the firehall for turkey dinner.
Steve, during our last election, Lynn Peterson stated 22 million goes to social services, but I see a continued declining social problem here, so why is it ok to throw more money at it? What will that accomplish?
Finally Steve, explain how you become over qualified to be a cop, and post the proof. If you and baker are going to spout the stuff you do, be expected to back it up with facts.
As a tax payer, I too have a say, and i'm tired of my money going to all the drunks walking around town...good thing for social services!
8/2/2012 6:14:21 PM
baor says:
Police --- 75 000 - 80 000 calls for service/yr
Amb --- 20 000 - 30 000 calls for service/yr

Fire -- 3500 - 4000 calls for service/yr most of which are to ASSIST ambulance.

Educate yourself.
8/2/2012 7:38:51 PM
lori says:
so lets keep insulting each other in the postings and avoid the actual topic at hand or the number of relevant points raised by some posters.
Are 12's for officers safe and what happens when they need to attend court.
Do 12's save taxpayer money, if so how much
Why did they go to 10's from 8's and why did Joe Virdiramo support that move and is now asking for 12's. Was that move a mistake.
Why do fireman make the same as police officers is a question I would love to see answered.
Why are our crime rates always so high when our officers are paid a very good salary?
Jimmyboy refers to a study that says 10's were the cheapest cost for taxpayers in one city. If that is true, what is the problem here.
This article created far more questions than answers. Could someone at TBT not take many of these questions and create a follow-up story.
And if someone who is not a cop is not allowed to question cost, then any gov't dept should just have free rein to spend what they want. Really??
8/2/2012 3:44:53 PM
North18 says:
Chaos, you obviously have no clue about police work if you think having more than a high school diploma makes you overqualified to be a cop. That has to be the dumbest comment I have ever seen and Chabker and Chezhank have been commenting on this site for years now.
8/2/2012 4:54:59 PM
Millrat says:
CHBAKER...you have truly showed us how ignorant you really are. You constantly criticize the police here every opportunity you get, yet you have absolutely no idea what police do...do you.????? Who do you think investigates those accidents, who do you think knocks on the door of the loved ones killed to tell them that their son or daughter has been killed in that accident. And as far as I'm concerned , every drunk they take off of the road, they save a life. And don't you dare tell me that that is not true, because I have been at the other end of that middle of the night knock on the door. I have the utmost respect for the police and what they do. And maybe on day if you are struck with a tragedy maybe you will to ( and stop with the uninformed, ignorant posts).
8/3/2012 7:53:03 AM
chbaker says:
I'm just going on what I see.
Firefighters seem to do all the hard jobs.

I watched the firefighters put out a blaze last week. They got in there and did it.

I watched a whole swat team, with automatic weapons and body armor stand around for x amount of hours waiting for the guy with the knife. Collecting overtime for standing around.

...And why does it take a storm trooper with body armor and an automatic weapon at his side, and a shotgun in his race car to knock on someones door and deliver bad news?
A little overkill, no?
Why does it take that same storm trooper to conduct an investigation?
More overkill..

But I guess when you can just demand as much money as you want from taxpayers, spare no expense.. right?
Nice sign at Balmoral station too... How much did THAT cost us? Does it prevent crime too?


I don't hate police. I just think I'm not getting a good deal for my dollar, and that they need more accountability and transparent accounting practices.
Protect and SERVE.
8/3/2012 6:27:30 PM
baor says:
I for one do not believe you AT ALL.

What you see is a very large truck lit up at every call they go to whether needed or not. Usually not from what the statistics show.
"Storm-troopers"? -- look up the definition of that one.
Look up the fire calls for service in a year AND the fact that they make the same money as police. I would say that that is very bad "deal for your dollar" as you say.

Look up accountablilty and you would see that the fire dept pretty much always holds out for an arbitrated settment knowing full well that they will most certainly be awarded wage parity with the police --- for a very mere fraction of the work load. Then blame City Hall for the delay...

What would you suggest the police wear? All cops in Canada carry guns and they all are SEMI-autos. Who should do a death notification
on behalf of the state?

Some of here remember the assinign comments you regularly make. "Hate" is the likely word.
8/5/2012 2:40:06 PM
Comments for this story are semi-moderated. Read our comment guideline.

Add a new comment.
You must log in to add comments.
Create a new account
Forgot password?
Log In
 
 
© 2013 Dougall Media.