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2012-09-12 at 10:31

Catholic school board exceeds provincial standards, public board lags behind

By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com
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Once again Lakehead Public Schools is lagging behind other Ontario school boards when it comes to proficiency in reading, writing and mathematics.

But Sherri-Lynne Pharand, the board’s superintendent of education, said it’s easy to misinterpret their lower-than-average Education Quality and Accountability Office test scores and overlook the most important indicators.

“Actually I think our results over time are what are important. Large-scale assessment is really intended to see improvement over time. And if we look at our results in reading and writing – we’ve had a strong focus on literacy over the last number of years,” Pharand said on Wednesday, hours after the scores were released.

“Over those same number of years we’ve had good improvements, so we’re pleased with our results. Like all good data it helps us to know when our students are doing well and what it is we need to focus on.”

The results suggest there is plenty of work left to be done to bring public school students in Thunder Bay on par with the rest of the province.

In only one 2011-12 category, Grade 3 reading, do LPS students surpass the provincial mark, with 67 per cent of students at or above the Ontario standard, a percentage point better than the rest of the province.

Grade 3 writing and mathematics results, at 68 per cent and 64 per cent hitting the required ability, are eight and four percentage points, respectively, behind other Ontarians.

Grade 6 students fare even worse, trailing in all three categories, 71 per cent hitting the standard in reading, 66 in writing and a woeful 43 per cent in math.

“We’re pleased with Grade 3 mathematics, but certainly we are working together with a researcher from Lakehead University and are looking together at our mathematics plan to put improvement plans in place over the course of the year,” said Pharand, acknowledging the board does place an emphasis on the test results.

“I think they help us to give a big picture toward the things we need to improve. But coupled with that, we need the day-to-day data that teachers collect about their students and what their students know and need to improve in the classroom. Teacher assessment that happens on a regular basis is really the foundation to improving learning in schools.”

At the Thunder Bay District Catholic School Board, director of education Joan Powell was all smiles after perusing the numbers her students posted.

TBCDSB students surpassed the provincial standard in all six categories, with 72 per cent of Grade 3 students beating the mark in reading, 80 per cent in writing and 71 per cent in math. The EQAO results were equally as strong in the Grade 6 classroom, where students hit 81 per cent, 79 per cent and 65 per cent respectively.

“We’re thrilled with the results. We’re really happy to see that our Grade 3 and Grade 6 students have gone up in all areas, or they’ve maintained the really high scores they had last year,” said Powell, whose board has spent in excess of $2 million to equip its elementary schools with laptops and other mobile devices.

“I think it says a lot about our staff and the dedication of our staff and the focus we’ve had on reading, writing and math. It also says a lot about our students and how hardworking they are and it says a lot about our parents and the support of our parent community.”

Both boards can claim to be above the Ontario average when it comes to certain Grade 9 math testing. Forty-eight per cent of Lakehead Public School students topped the Ontario standard in applied math. That’s four percentage points more than across the province. Seventy-seven per cent met or beat the average in academic math, seven percentage points below the provincial average.

The TBCDSB posted 55 per cent and 88 per cent respectively.

Regardless of the results, Powell said it’s no time to rest on their laurels.

“Absolutely we have room for improvement and we know that. We’ve got lots of work to do to get all our students to where we want them to be, which is at the provincial standard or higher.”

St. Pius X was the top Catholic Board institution, with St. Margaret School finishing last. On the public board side, Nor'Wester View finished No. 1, while Algonquin Avenue Public School was lowest on the list. 
 

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Steven says:
This has nothing to do with quality of education and everything to do with background of incoming students.

Because the catholic board has a better "reputation" on paper, parents who are involved in their children's lives and are active in their education will seek out letters from priests etc. so that their kids can go to these 'better' schools, even though the vast majority of the kids at these schools (and their parents) are actually without any real religious affiliation.

On the other hand, parents who aren't involved in their kids educations allow their kids to go to the 'worse' schools of the public board. A very sad side note: aboriginal children who have been so horribly affected by the residential school aftermath, are typically not placed into the catholic board. As a result, you have a lower income group of students in the public board, less involved parents etc.

This is what makes the numbers on the testing lower. Not a lower teaching level.
9/12/2012 11:11:57 AM
Sui Generis says:
I'm sorry, but there are so many errors in your post I had to comment.

1. You do not require any letter from a priest or pastor to send your children to Catholic. I was catholic once upon a time (not any longer) and stating that on their registration forms was all it took to enter my kids in that school system. I have since moved them out and back to public school since their special education program is MUCH worse than the public school system and I have a special needs child.

2. While my children attended catholic school, the ratio of aboriginal children to white was about 50%.

3. Parents can be incredibly involved with their children and still wind up stuck with a public school that is less than stellar. Thank districts, bussing schedules and teacher rotations for that mess.
9/12/2012 11:41:42 AM
appalled says:
Wow you must be a victim of a very poor school indeed to utter such sweeping generalizations. I am a very involved parent and I CHOOSE to send my kids to public school as I don't agree with the catholic board's priciples. My kids get an excellent educations and always score very high on the EQAO tests. Do I know why on average the public schools perform poorer? No but I am more concerned with the overall education, acceptance, motivation and sense of well being that my children are receiving in their school rather than an arbritrary test that really proves nothing. But go ahead and bash teachers if you like, they'll continue to do a great job regardless of your uninformed opinion.
9/12/2012 1:06:03 PM
Steven says:
Appalled, I did not bash teachers.
In fact, I didn't even mention them, directly or implied! What on earth were you reading? Care to retract your comments?
Sui Generis, it was 50/50 at your child's school? That would be atypical if it was indeed that high a ratio.

Regardless of whether or not a letter is required to attend (I understand it was for a very long time!), and regardless of your child's experience, might I suggest that the public board still has a lower socio-economic level on average for their students, and less involved parents. This is not all students, but it is many. Churchill for instance takes in a massive influx of students from remote reserves, and those students invariable have a difficult time and low marks on average. This enters in to the gr. 10 literacy testing, and skews numbers negatively for the public board.

I guess we disagree, as your single experience has convinced you of something which is atypical for the boards.
9/12/2012 6:05:45 PM
unionbay880 says:
How old are you, you needed a letter in the 1950s. You say aboriginal students have "low marks on average". Come on you don't have to be such a racist.
9/13/2012 1:46:38 PM
ComradeLeninHiawathaZwig says:
He's not saying it to be racist. The Aboriginal demographic does on average have the most difficulty in the school system; this is a fact and to forego it makes finding a remedy a touch problematic. There are various factors involved. It isn't due to their Aboriginal descent; if anything that's been disproven. Aboriginals have made vast improvements in educational performance over the years, but the fact remains that they lag behind other demographics. A lot of attention is being paid to this right now, and Steven made several good points.
9/14/2012 8:50:54 AM
imhere says:
Are you serious???? As a parent who has had children in BOTH school boards I have to say it's the teachers and quality of education that makes the Catholic board better. Our income is lower since we changed schools. The public school they went to had parents involved and it was low income as well.

I love that the teachers are willing to make time for parents at their current school whenever you have questions. The school is mixed with native and non native students. We are not Catholic and didn't have to show proof to attend their school.

Not to burst your bubble but the Catholic board in our experience has been far superior to what we experienced in the public board.
9/12/2012 7:46:06 PM
ozone says:
No surprise here!! Great schools, teachers and administration.

For years the TBCDSB has been dedicated to providing excellence in education. The Lakehead Board has been too busy living on past glory.
9/12/2012 11:20:57 AM
cac says:
Very unfair statement about the Lakehead Board! I think some people like to make comments on this forum just to get people riled up!
9/12/2012 1:24:52 PM
loudmouth101 says:
awesome results....whereas the Catholic teachers accepted the wage freeze, unlike the Lakehead Board teachers....might these results suggest who cares more about our kids than their own pocket?
9/12/2012 11:29:07 AM
teacher says:
WOW....There isn't a teacher alive that is happy with accepting the terms the government laid out before them. Not Catholic nor Public. Every teacher works countless hours and spends more time with your children than you in a day because they love kids and want to see them grow and succeed right before their eyes. Provincial testing is a waste of monetary funds as all students in grade three and 6 are taught to the test. The Catholic board spends countless hours having their students study the test and memorize the answers to ensure success. I can't speak for the public board as I have not worked for them.
The Catholic board also has a high number of low income families as well so that is a statement that has no merit. Each student is seen as monetary gains by administration which is why both boards will accept anyone.
Each teacher will continue to do their job to the highest level possible and in the best interest of the students whether there is a contract forced upon them or not.
9/12/2012 12:00:59 PM
cac says:
Well stated and in my opinion very accurate!
9/12/2012 1:15:39 PM
CM Punk says:
Loudmouth101, OECTA here locally took the deal because the government was going to legislate them back to work anyways if they didn't.
Its called being a kayfab. Look it up. That is your word for the day to learn.

These numbers are good, but still some kids do not know how to spell to save their lives so I am not sure why anyone has anything to gloat about.
9/12/2012 11:45:28 AM
tiredofthebs says:
Totally agree with Steven........Anyone that thinks the Catholic board is "Better" than the public board needs to give their head a shake. Change the name of TBCDSB to the Thunder Bay Private School Board and take away public funding and see how long their high marks last. Not a knock on their system.....good for them for having high standards. Just don't compare apples to oranges here.
9/12/2012 11:49:24 AM
trent says:
The results are the same every year.
9/12/2012 12:25:39 PM
yellowsnow says:
Perhaps it could be that the Catholic Board puts a lot of resources into the Grade 3 and 6 tests every year so they look good in the public eye. They can also pick and choose who goes to their schools, the Public Board has to take everyone.

This comment from Steven: "On the other hand, parents who aren't involved in their kids educations allow their kids to go to the 'worse' schools of the public board." What an ignorant comment. I chose public for my child because I don't believe in religion and didn't want my child to be excluded from certain activities because of it. I didn't want them coming home and asking me questions about something that in my opinion is Ficiton. I am also very active in my child's school, as is my wife who sits on council.

Time to pull your head out of your 'you know what' and get a clue.
9/12/2012 12:55:13 PM
CM Punk says:
@Teacher,
you said "each student is seen as monetary gains by administration which is why both boards will accept anyone."
So are you saying if a student is not seen as a "monetary gain" they are refused the right to an education?
give your head a shake.

this Sunday I will defend my title against John Cena.

The Best in the World.
9/12/2012 1:00:03 PM
teacher says:
What I am saying is that no child will be turned away from any board because the school is funded per student. Each student equals money, therefore, no student will be turned away based on religion, income, status, or race.
The more students the board has, the more funding they get.
9/12/2012 2:41:36 PM
Daxxis says:
Another factor is that the Catholic system does not have a mandate to cover all geographic areas of town whereas the Lakehead Board must. So, the Lakehead board had to (and has to) maintain schools (that are expensive) in areas with very few students or bus them long distances.
The Catholic system can operate fewer facilities and keep costs down.
9/12/2012 1:30:15 PM
Dan Dan says:
If you want your kid to have a good education, where you should send them is obvious.
9/12/2012 1:37:37 PM
metisman says:
I was part of the public school system as a kid and my kids are enrolled in the Catholic system. I am on a parent council at their school. When talking to our principal as well as may others, they are dedicated people that try to ensure their students not only exceed academically but also socially. In speaking to friends that have their children enrolled in public schools I find that with our kids both being in the same grade, the teachers we have seem to spend more time with the kids one on one when needed, even after school. I think that this is why there is a difference in scores....
9/12/2012 2:16:04 PM
Tbay111 says:
I have personal experience with both school boards. I attended the catholic board up until grade 8, then tried a public board highschool. I returned to the catholic board in grade 11 for a number of reasons. There was a lack of discipline and respect. Students did as they pleased, teachers didn't care. The curriculum was not covered. In grade 11, I was behind. Lastly one teacher which had an english major, taught me grade 9 science. She had no clue what she was doing. It was a joke. I definitely believe the catholic board is doing a great job, clearly shows with the results. There are no excuses. Catholic board has some schools that are located in rather lower income areas too.
9/12/2012 2:29:52 PM
Kappa says:
ozone, you are a moron.....the Catholic board is a disgrace....
9/12/2012 2:36:57 PM
dandy says:
The Catholic Board isnt so Catholic when you examine the teachers "Catholic Lifestyles"
9/12/2012 2:49:42 PM
yqt says:
It's a Catholic curriculum, not a school full of priests and nuns. As long as they are law abiding, it isn't any of your business what a public or catholic teacher does when the work day is done.

That'll be 10 "Our Fathers" for that stupid remark.
9/14/2012 1:36:50 AM
010665 says:
"Teacher",
With all due respect, while there are many dedicated & involved teachers, there are also more than a few not so fantastic ones. My kids teachers included: one who would not provide copies of her "very important information" for parents because "Mike Harris" cut the copy budget, no way was she going to spend approx $2 on copies. The highschool teacher who told me that she allowed ipods in class as it kept the kids quiet. The two vice-principles I personally spoke to demanding my kids be given the detentions a computerized voice mail system threatened when they skipped a few classes. No detention was ever given. The multiple teachers who told me that if kids didnt complete assignments on time they could do them anytime before the end of the term ie whenever they felt like. Try that in the real world. To many teachers are more concerned about being their students friends than actually instructing them. I am by the way a former(successful)teacher & involved parent.
9/12/2012 2:54:54 PM
myohmy says:
Please scale back the vicious comments. Both school boards do as much as they can for all their students. There should be no comparisons between boards or schools because no one school is exaclty like the other, by student population, by school zone, by parent participation and so many other factors. Instead of bashing each other, people should take that extra energy and use it positively to support ALL students regardless of school board.
9/12/2012 2:56:07 PM
Tbayguy99 says:
It may also be appropriate to look at how each board hires their teachers. Nepotism seems to be running unchecked in the public board, maybe hiring the best qualified teacher would help.
9/12/2012 3:18:50 PM
CM Punk says:
Actually TBayguy, both boards have nepotism running up the ying yang.
Hiring their soccer friends, relatives, and god forbid, they will not give them a bad teacher evaluation.
No wonder the kids are sub par when it comes to math skills as kids in stores cannot even give the correct change.
9/12/2012 4:03:35 PM
countrychick says:
My son started out in the public board as we lived in the country then things changed and we were moving to the city and he had to change schools and i wanted him in the catholic board as the school populations were smaller and i liked that they have the senior elementary in 7 and 8 a good intoduction to high school he has done well and had gotten a very good education and the teachers are great... he is now in highschool and i like that they have uniforms it keeps things at a even level and i think the kids are more respecful also the catholic school are way more in line with out family values... and yes i will be sending my younger son to catholic school when he starts jk next year! by the way we are not catholic but we are lutheran!!
9/12/2012 6:35:36 PM
nvjgu says:
My child went to St Pius X now Mcmaster Hamilton Med rad sci.
9/12/2012 10:04:04 PM
050680 says:
I am a grade 3 EQAO year teacher with the Catholic Board. I am allowed to prepare students for the test by practising sample questions in the format of the test (multiple choice, short answer, writing forms etc). I cannot give students questions and answers to memorize even if I wanted to, as the tests are received by me the day of the test and are sealed until each student opens them. The tests are never the same, only the format. Provided the teacher administrators are following the very strict rules to do so, the test is fair. If a teacher breaks these rules (by perhaps helping students to arrive at the right answer) and is discovered, very severe and public consequences ensue. I don't know any EQAO year teacher who is willing to take that risk and all are very concerned about understanding the rules for fair administration.
9/12/2012 10:17:35 PM
mamma says:
Home school! that will solve all your complaints..you can be involved, you can teach them religion if you choose and you can teach the testing to them or not! wont matter how much money you have or where you live in the city.
9/12/2012 10:22:22 PM
050680 says:
There seems to be much confusion about the Catholic Board. The board has schools zoned for EVERY area of the city, busing students where necessary. The board cannot pick and choose students or families and does not require pastoral letters (although the teachers do in order to be hired). Everyone who seeks a catholic education gets one. The board always wants numbers to be up, and more than half of these families are not Catholic, but happily have their children learn catholic values in addition to other curriculum. We teach Catholic Education in a considerate way as to include all students, regardless of their various religions or lack thereof. I was not hired because of who I know (I had no links whatsoever) but because I was qualified in a specialized area in need. I consistently see jobs being given to supply teachers who work hard as they fill mat leave positions etc. and as for those who don't, they continue to wait for jobs while crying nepotism.
9/12/2012 10:48:30 PM
Dontlistentome says:
Absolutey great comment.
I've never understood the bizarre and unwarranted views people have of either system.
9/13/2012 8:12:40 AM
reignmaker says:
CM Punk,

The word you meant to use is "kayfabe" and it didn't apply to the Catholic Board's acceptance of the contract. They didn't keep up some alternate character when the public was around and then meet with the government for dinner as buddies.

The Best in the World would know that.
9/13/2012 9:44:18 AM
franklin32012 says:
You want to solve the education problem. Wipe out the Ministry of Education. Sell off the schools. Will save a ton of money. The kids would rather HuckleBerry Finn their way thru life. 99 percent of students cannot read or write even past high school.
9/13/2012 11:01:11 AM
reignmaker says:
CM Punk,

The word you meant to use is "kayfabe" and it didn't apply to the Catholic Board's acceptance of the contract. They didn't keep up some alternate character when the public was around and then meet with the government for dinner as buddies.

The Best in the World would know that.
9/13/2012 11:09:56 AM
dandy says:
nvjgu , is that supposed to be impressive or something??
9/13/2012 12:22:24 PM
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