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2012-09-25 at MIDNIGHT

Decision reversed

By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com
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City council on Monday reversed last week’s decision and recommendation to install $76,500 worth of safety netting to protect visitors and workers from falling glass.

Council also directed asked administration to prepare a new report detailing what it would take to either build a new facility at the present site or refurbish the current one.

It was the news Keely Banning has been looking for since talk of permanently closing the 45-year-old site down, or worse yet, tearing it down.

Banning, one of the most vocal supporters of the conservatory, said she had all but given up hope for the decision that was ultimately made.

“It’s never a straight line usually,” she said, after sitting through three hours of deputations and discussion.

“It’s not going to be 100 per cent perfect, but we’re on our way and it means at least it’s not going to be closed or demolished. And that’s a good thing.”

Marie Dean, president of CUPE Local 87, was not only fighting to save the facility, but the 4.5 full-time jobs it creates.
The first person to address council on Monday, Dean said she was happy with the result.

“I’m glad that they’re going to take a second look at either restoring or rebuilding. That’s something the citizens want, as well as my workers,” she said.

One by one councillors reiterated they didn’t want to see the city lose its conservatory.

But each had his or her own idea of how Thunder Bay should go about keeping it.

Some, like Coun. Rebecca Johnson, said retaining the conservatory at all costs was not fiscally responsible.

She was one of four councillors to vote against the netting, which could allow the city to reopen the conservatory by year’s end.

Johnson was concerned the netting will only be the start of a long list of money needed to keep the facility operational.

“To Band-Aid it, I’d rather see that $76,500 go toward the actual refurbishment or toward the rebuilding,” she said. “In the long term it’s going to cost us more money and I’m not prepared to do that,” she said.

Current River Coun. Andrew Foulds, who got confirmation the net could be re-used once purchased, said council and administration owed it to the people of Thunder Bay to keep the long-neglected conservatory open.

“We built this thing as a centennial project and it was meant to be a legacy project for this entire community. It wasn’t meant to end.”

Meanwhile Red River Coun. Brian MacKinnon, one of several councillors to question city officials about the accuracy of glass-falling reports, said the netting is a must as he tried to convince his fellow councillors to follow suit.

“If you want another Elliot Lake, here it is,” he said, referencing the fatal mall collapse earlier this summer in the Northern Ontario community.

The original motion had called for the demolition of three greenhouses and a continuation of the tropical display house which has remained closed to the public since this past February. The new motion, which council passed, calls for a study detailing the costs to repair or replace the greenhouses, in addition to the netting.

The east and west wings of the display house will remain closed until repairs can be made.

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Comments

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young&concerned says:
I wish someone would throw netting over every member on this city council and remove them from all decision making and spending.
9/25/2012 12:17:16 AM
mercy mercy me says:
i watched this evening's compelling presentations to save the Conservatory,i hope administration will be forthcoming,this time with honest and factual answers to the relevant questions, eg. did glass really fall? or just the uttering of Chicken Little......but as usual,the Hair God came through with his verbal diarrhea and i had to change the channel, could he not be put "in camera"?...lol
9/25/2012 12:50:15 AM
wayne says:
MacKinnon is such a drama queen on this issue. And Ruberto needs to do less nonsensical babbling and more listening.
9/25/2012 3:03:51 AM
The Beaver..... says:
“I’m glad that they’re going to take a second look at either restoring or rebuilding. That’s something the citizens want, AS WELL AS MY WORKERS ”she said.
What ever made me think that they were City Workers and forced to be Union Members
9/25/2012 4:01:08 AM
jimmyboy says:
There is clearly no real decision process what so ever amongst this mayor and council...I truly hope the voters are paying close attention to the way in which there is this non-stop flip flopping happening....people making decisions without all the facts being a major excuse...with Hobbs being the prime leader on this one...first he stated he does not like flowers...then comes up with the allergy excuse...city council had to shovel their way out of the room last night after all the B.S. that had piled up throughout the course of the evening.!
9/25/2012 6:47:44 AM
elvis2010 says:
Honestly, do you just cruise through the stories on here every day just to find ones that may have some chance of involving our mayor so you can make another one of your comments about him. So you can try and blame him for something else? Half the time the stories you comment about the mayor on have nothing to do with the mayor. That's my 2 cents for the day. Going to head over to the weather site and blame Hobbs for the clouds that were over the city this morning!
9/25/2012 10:47:22 AM
colleenopaski says:
I have a question, when the new HUGE court house is finished, what exactly happens to the court house on Arthur and the other one in port arthur???? Will they be left vacant and an eye sore like everything else in this city??? Spend more of my tax dollars foolishly council people!!!!!
9/25/2012 7:07:45 AM
panzerIV says:
The justice system is both a federal and provincial mandate but the administration of justice falls under the province.

Personally, I believe that the courthouse in Port Arthur is a beautiful building with a lot of character and history. If you have ever been inside the largest courtroom. The amount of work gone into it is simply astounding. This will likely be sold but I hope preserved and kept to a high standard. It could become a museum to the history of justice/policing in Thunder Bay.

The Fort William courthouse needs to be torn down as rumors of mold have come about. The land could easily be used as a medium rise residential development or repurposed.

City council has nothing to do with the courthouse other then likely the location of it and maintenance of infrastructure around it.

The courthouse will be finished Mid-late 2013.

9/25/2012 11:33:41 AM
keiths31 says:
Glad the decided to keep it open. It's never too late to do the right thing...
9/25/2012 8:03:26 AM
jimmy2 says:
What is the long term decision? Sure spend tons of money on a net, cause falling glass is really going to be contained by a net? And then once the net is all torn, and falling apart, do we go through this whole process again, of whether or not to keep it open? I say start charging a dollar for each person, or anything, and see actually how many people visit this place, Is all this fighting worth something? Or are memories just trying to keep it open, for that "one special time my grandpa took me there". Think logically people, yes its gorgeous, i do visit it for photography, very often, but a net? What is the long term outcome?
9/25/2012 8:13:55 AM
Chaos says:
So therefore it was closed many months for no reason. Real shame.
9/25/2012 8:15:27 AM
Thimble49 says:
I am grateful that the conservatory has been saved. If it requires some maintenance, lets maintain what we have. The net is an inexpensive stop gap solution. Thunder Bay needs to invest in these things for cultural reasons. It makes living here a better experience for everyone.
9/25/2012 8:46:14 AM
barry medawin says:
How did that kid in the photo become a member of the union? Is this not against labour laws in Canada? There should be an investigation here.
9/25/2012 8:46:31 AM
commonsense says:
Administration was ill-prepared for this meeting. Recommending closure of the greenhouses to save $100,000, yet NO facts to support that out-sourcing would save tax dollars.The costs given included $483,000 for new glazing, the highest of the possible options, but did not give numbers for the corresponding savings. Energy savings of $82,000 annually were not reported. Nor were the other costs clarified. It would seem they didn't want this issue to undergo to much scrutiny, as it wouldn't stand up.
9/25/2012 9:01:19 AM
sandwiches1123 says:
Did Council finally get a well-researched financial report that showed how much money they would have to pay for the flowers and other vegetation the conservatory supplies to our City-owned parks and parkettes? This would have been a major mistake on Council's part. Mind you, why is the City competing with local businesses and causing hardship on other greenhouses around the area. Oh, wait, those are well-run businesses.

mercy mercy me: the better question is: "If glass falls in the conservatory but nobody is around, does it make a sound when it breaks?"

gosh I am bitter this morning.
9/25/2012 9:08:25 AM
chezhank says:
I wish councillor Johnson was forced to listen to herself.
She always talks about fiscal responsibility yet brought in a "strategic"(everything from city hall is strategic)fire plan that added two management positions to city payroll.
She should google fiscal responsibility!
9/25/2012 9:54:56 AM
sam says:
Rebecca Johnson seems to be the only councillor who is fiscally responsible, which is what I want in my city council. City admin just wants to spend, spend, spend.....our money.
9/25/2012 10:03:56 AM
tbaysupporter says:
colleenopaski you may want to check out who is responsible for the court house... city council has nothing to do with it. Council has made the right choice, better late then never. Next time they should do their research before the vote, not after.
9/25/2012 11:12:26 AM
Pandora says:
We have a POORLY FUNCTIONING ADMINISTRATION.
Administration not answering relevant questions so OUR ELECTED Council can make the best decisions for US the TAXPAYER and CITIZEN of this COMMUNITY. Never telling the whole story. Not giving the $ of savings in return for the investment!

Administration IS NOT DOING THEIR JOB!!!
WHY IS THAT? Are they incapable or is there another reason?

And I hope any thought of moving the Conservatory to the Waterfront has been dropped. Numerous good reasons for keeping it at its existing location were given by experts in their field.

Why would we want to take the Conservatory out of its tranquil setting to move it to the coldest wind swept shoreline next to the tracks on contaminated land to further leach contaminates into Lake Superior!
WITH NO PARKING
Where not a mature tree stands.
9/25/2012 12:20:56 PM
Whodo says:
The Good Citizens of Thunder Bay, all of the people last evening making Deputations did a Wonderful JOB(unlike Administration).
I, Concerned Taxpayer want to Thank All.

And Yes, Administration deserved a lashing. Their performance was way, way below grade. So please no more patting Administration on the back(Aldo) these administrators have not earned their pay.

It is obvious, again, Council really needs to be diligent and can no longer depend entirely on their administrators for any sort of answers.

Half truths are really lies.
HOW SAD IS THAT....

We still do not know...Falling glass or no falling glass in the greenhouse?

Do we really need the netting? Staff says NO.
Who should we trust? Administration who have never even been on the inside of the Conservatory. Apparently the Dept manager had never been inside before the day of closure?

Oh BOY, another fine example of How this City goes about it Business...SAD.

9/25/2012 1:05:01 PM
chezhank says:
I loved the seasonal display at the conservatory,especially in the spring with the hyacinths....you can smell it as soon as you walk into the conservatory.
Good job on those who spoke at "clowncil"!
But to blame administration solely is wrong.
The conservatory was brought up at council during budget talks as part of a core review.City "clowncillors" gave administration a blank check to cut $1.5 million from the budget with no specifics.So with no direction from "clowncil" administration took the helm and decided to cut the conservatory and municipal.Now that it is time to pay the piper council is stumbling over their clown shoes.
9/25/2012 2:41:02 PM
varga says:
I will only say this... we somehow got duped into paying for an $80 000 net without any PROOF of falling glass. Some dude thatw andered through the building with the manager of Fleet and Facility "says" he talked to staff and they told him that 10 panes or more fall from the ceiling a year yet the staff says no such thing has EVER happened!? I guess it is true what they say; "The more money you make. The less accountable you are for your wordsd and actions."
9/25/2012 1:34:18 PM
She says:
Why does safety netting cost so much?
9/25/2012 2:10:49 PM
CJ says:
Because the city always gets overcharged for everything and they just pay it because they're dumb.
9/27/2012 8:08:35 AM
Pandora says:
Nobody can talk, talk, talk like Rebecca Johnson!!! But can she walk the walk??? NO

Aldo Roberto should never have been allowed to speak or rather 'debate' the Gallery(the Public in Chambers) like Bentz permitted at last night Council meeting.
You only make yourselves all look foolish, you and Administration. If there was TRUE ACCOUNTABILITY, TODAY, City Council and Admin. would be flushing out the truth. I do not believe any one of you should be cashing your pay cheques until the truth has been publicly confession.

This is not the 1st time Admin has got caught and questioned. How can we trust any of you?

And it is high time Councilors stopped praising Administration, they get the BIG PAY CHECK and AS FAR AS MOST OF US ARE CONCERNED THEY haven't EARN IT.
SPIN, BABY SPIN...
9/25/2012 3:54:09 PM
Pandora says:
Did the glass fall inside the greenhouse or not?
9/25/2012 3:55:07 PM
brooky says:
Perhaps the netting should be put on the outside of the building. Who builds a glass house on a golf course??
9/25/2012 7:30:39 PM
CM Punk says:
Glad to see it getting a second chance.
But I also agree that MacKinnon is a drama queen.

And to say that this is going to be another "Elliot Lake" is very distasteful considering the events that did happen there.
If he is so worried about the Conservatory turning that way, then find the most viable way to fix it.
9/25/2012 7:58:27 PM
Ed itw says:
As much as I like the place ...do we need the desert display. How much energy do we waste to create this simulated display.
9/25/2012 8:36:46 PM
jimmyboy says:
With Andrew Foulds noting the petition number in his comments....to that I say really, when has a petition honestly changed a persons vote on city council....keeping in mind that one of the cities largest petitions against the Marina Park waterfront project garnered over 7,000 signatures and did not make an ounce of difference in the final outcome....what is not giving validity to having a petition in hand.???
Tbnewswatch.com

9/26/2012 7:35:16 AM
Jon Powers says:
panzerIV:

Your City Council has always wanted The New Cout-House in the Former Core Area! (since 2000).

They viewed as a great way to bolster the s-side businesses. Great Well Fare State!

Those businesses are going to be paying higher insurance costs due to "Ontario's Kevins Law". Not to mention the relocation of McKellar Park School; Due to Sex Offenders being less than one block away from the New "Fortress Of Vengence".

The Businesses wanted this so they wouldn't have to go out and get clientele on their own. Its easier for the government to get them customers for them the businesses.


Great story!
tbnewswatch.com
9/26/2012 10:27:59 AM
Whodo says:

Good letter in the Opinions Column (on this site)
everyone interested should read.
9/26/2012 10:58:15 AM
farmgal says:
I am glad council changed it mind about the conservatory. I hope they will consider rebuilding it if necessary and then marketing it properly. Anyone that has been to the Edmonton Conservatory has seen what a beautiful place a conservatory can be if done right. Hopefully this city will finally do it right.
9/26/2012 1:51:58 PM
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