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2012-10-10 at 11:53

North core wins

By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com
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The report card is in and the downtown north core has won the latest stage in the proposed multiplex race.

Citing economic impact as their No. 1 reason, consultants on Wednesday said they are recommending city council choose a Port Arthur location over Innova Park to build the 5,700-seat facility, expected to cost $106.1 million.

City manager Tim Commisso said both sites have their benefits, but in the end the downtown north core simply made more sense.

“We’re seeing a sort of change happening and we’re seeing that change being complimentary. The redevelopment of the downtown if this project moves ahead – and I say if because we’re still a long way away – will in (the consultants’) minds be more of a sure thing, especially if you have a conference component,” Commisso said.

Consultant Conrad Boychuk, the executive director of CDI architecture and the author of the feasibility study, said downtown location would help build on an economic revival in the area that’s already under way.

“The downtown waterfront site is going to generate a lot more economic impact and have a lot more of a beneficial effect on both the region and the actual site area. It’s got the kinds of enhancements and the kind of spin-off areas that you just wouldn’t see with Innova Park,” Boychuk said.

“Innova is a good site, but it’s a disconnected site. It’s not in the centre of anything. It’s well-accessed, but doesn’t exist in the context that’s going to get animated by the development of this type of a building.”

According to the report, the centre, which would include a hockey rink and a convention centre, plus a 200-unit parking facility and a private-sector restaurant, would generate up to $149.4 million in direct and indirect spending during construction , and provide about $79 million in employment income growth, providing senior levels of government with up to $17.4 million in additional taxes.

The plan would also see a portion of Van Norman street turned into a pedestrian walkway.

Port Arthur out-scored Innova Park in four categories, vision, complimentary to business, economic impact and city building. The two sites were equal in cost impact and accessibility, while Innova Park won out in the parking category.

The city’s share of the project, which city officials would like to see started as soon as 2014, would be $35.4 million. Of that $25 million has already been set aside in the Renew Thunder Bay fund, and the rest would have to be found through other funds.

The 200,000 square foot project won’t go ahead unless the federal and provincial governments can come up with the remaining $70 million.

Independent MP Bruce Hyer on Wednesday said he fully supports the plan and will lobby the federal government to pony up the money to pay the one-third cost the city is counting on. 

Mayor Keith Hobbs, who originally favoured a south-core location, said the consultants’ report has swayed his opinion.

“They produced the evidence here today that shows the waterfront is the best site for economics, jobs and the spinoffs for other businesses to grow in the area. The homework has proven it,” Hobbs said.

The mayor said he’s highly confident the project will move ahead and that council will approve the latest phase when they vote on Nov. 26. They’ll receive the study on Monday as a first report, and an open house is scheduled for Nov. 21 at the Thunder Bay Community Auditorium.

“All the talk in that I’ve heard in the community is that (the public) wants (a multiplex),” Hobbs said, not ruling out a plebiscite in 2014 should the feds and province not come through with funding.

“We need to move this city forward and this isn’t a slam on previous councils, but I think Thunder Bay was stagnant for a lot of years. Now we’re seeing growth. We’re seeing a lot of growth in this city. This event city will be a huge piece of the puzzle.”

The multiplex is expected to created between 285 and 380 jobs if completed, and would cost taxpayers $1.4 million in subsidies each year between the hockey rink and the convention centre. 

The report also suggests an American Hockey League or Ontario Hockey League team would a more desirable tenant than the Lakehead Thunderwolves hockey and basketball programs. 

 

 

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Comments

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canuckchick1980 says:
I think this is fantastic! This project can revitalize our north core as a true "entertainment district". Now for a stip of bars/clubs and restaurants and we will be keeping up with other centres.
Certain areas of the town for different interests and businesses is what we need to do to become more progressive and keep up with the times! The south end can now be built up as a business area...
10/10/2012 12:04:11 PM
Hey Boy says:
Couldn't agree more with you. To me the north core downtown was a no brainer but good on them for doing a little research. I don't really understand the negativity around the parking issue. We live in a pretty small city and building a facility that holds 5,700 people Do people realize that that there are 50,000-70,000 seat facilities in huge cities where there is no room at all. There will be a 200 unit parking facility along with the parking garage thats already down there on red river. Parking will be fine and if it's congested after an event. Deal with it. It comes with the territory. If ya don't like it, stay home. This is the right direction for Thunder Bay to move in. Good stuff.
10/10/2012 1:39:41 PM
Common cents says:
And I will stay at home,no seasons tickets for this Family.
10/10/2012 9:39:17 PM
jb says:
waaa... I didn't get my way so now I'm going to sit at the computer & pout.
10/11/2012 2:26:59 PM
richie says:
canuckchick1980, you forgot now we just have to get those 5000 bums off their couches and into the event centre to see every hockey game be it on a monday night , tuesday night, wednesday night or a thursday night not just weekends for the hockey team to be profitable . not going to happen!!!! when the anchor tenant loses money,the event centre loses money,when the event centre loses money the taxpayer loses money.

Lets not forget Tim Commisso says event centres lose money, they are not profitable. What commisso , hobbs , the media don't want to tell the taxpayer is that there is an 80/20 % probability the multiplex will lose 1.5 million to 2 million dollars a year, now is the taxpayer in thunder bay ready to stomach that amount?
10/10/2012 2:46:53 PM
bgal says:
Best news I have heard for a long time-- way to GROW, Thunder Bay !!!!
10/10/2012 12:10:26 PM
tbay99 says:
Way to go Thunder Bay -- way to have those tax bills GROW, Thunder Bay!!
10/10/2012 12:14:38 PM
TBDR says:
It's already happening... The Foundry, Sovereign, Gargoyles, BPP, Crocks, restaurant at the Prince Arthur, the new Bight location... etc etc. New places apparently slated to be built next year.

I agree though, it was the only location that made sense from an urban planning standpoint.
10/10/2012 12:13:24 PM
yqt says:
Heck ya, love The Sov'. Love the atmosphere, great beer, great food, good folks. Oh, awesome tunes too!!
10/10/2012 9:50:21 PM
Common cents says:
Port Arthur out-scored Innova Park in four categories, vision, complimentary to business, economic impact and city building.

Vision= LIE
complimentary to business= only DT northcore
economic impact and city building? where can any building occur?= LIE

The two sites were equal in cost impact and acessibility,

cost impact? relocate bus terminal and transfomer facility,including all underground wiring= LIE

acessibility?= SERIOUSLY DID WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY FOR THESE LIERS


AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE (Innova Park won out in the parking category)
OH wait, we could bike there in February, or take a hour long bus ride.

Is Muni up for sale yet? Would be a nice place to build a new home.

OP here we come
10/10/2012 10:12:23 PM
Tannoy says:
And cue negative coments in 3....2....1....
10/10/2012 12:13:57 PM
stuck? says:
you already got the bandwagon rolling with yours :(

Glad to hear it's going forward but, pretty mixed on the north core.... gonna be very congested.

Kind of reminds me of being downtown Van city though.

Hope they can pull it off and make it spiffy!
10/10/2012 12:18:46 PM
Tannoy says:
Mine wasnt negative, personally i dont really care where the arena goes as long as we get one to replace the gardens before it crumbles and kills someone. The negative coments will come regardless if i do a little countdown or not.
10/12/2012 9:21:52 AM
cariboukid says:
Awesome! WooHoo!!
10/10/2012 12:15:32 PM
Potso says:
This is great news! I actually feel that Thunder Bay is heading in a positive direction. Now let's hope council doesn't shelve this project and keep us in the darkages.
10/10/2012 12:17:11 PM
pearlman says:
Awesome stuff! Exciting news!
10/10/2012 12:20:24 PM
Rob20 says:
Brilliant... lets continue this absurb notion that access to via appropriate traffic arteries & decent parking isn't important to the sucess of a major center. Lets make an already congested area even when there's a small event an ansolute mess to get around in. Let build the FW Gardens #2, a key event center in a dump of an area that you're likely to get mugged in at night, have your car broken into, and guaranteed to freeze during the winter trying to walk 3 blocks in January because there is no parking. Unreal... all to what? Push a little more business into a few dumpy restaurants that you an't find parking for now without an event center down here? Most of which are not even close to being accessible to the disabled or aging community we have that's growing in this city.
10/10/2012 12:33:40 PM
panzerIV says:
You been living under a rock recently? Have you not seen the change that has gone on in the North Core. Look at TBDR post and see how many locally owned businesses have opened recently. The North core is vibrant with people their for hours on end, this event center will simply compliment the work being done by local entrepreneurs. It will also compliment the work done by the city at the marina.

Parking and traffic flow are issues that can be worked on fairly easily but economic issues are much harder. This provides the bang for the buck and helps grow our already developed areas.
10/10/2012 12:43:18 PM
Rob20 says:
I work in the downtown area directly above the marina. Traffic flow is a mess especially at any peak time or any time an event is going on. I got to Bluesfest yearly, traffic is horrendous anytime it's going on, forget letting out. Parking is zero unless you arrive hours early or park blocks away. I'm also in a wheelchair, and most businesses in the downtown core are no where close to being even moderately accessible. And I say that as someone who gets around easily, drives, has family/friends with other mobility impairments and has attempted to frequent many establishments in the area. The overall area is run down and under policed. A coworker of mine was told by janitors not to lock his bike up outside the building as last year someone stole a bike during broad daylight that was chained down. There's constantly beer bottles smashed on sidewalks & people pan-handling. Etc. This will be FW Gardens all over again. Take your rose coloured glasses off.
10/10/2012 1:15:05 PM
ANVIL OF CROM says:
I agree the northcore is conjested but I think innova park wears a business shirt that is too threadbare of current or future prospects. There is currently nothing in innova park.....nothing.
To spend money on a centre there would a slap to the dozens of small business owners in downtown PA.
That being said of course downtown FW loses. But, a decision had to me made, and there are other infrastructure monies in that area.
Downtown PA has private business people,owners, employers who have put their private equity on the line to provide services,that colour our culture here in Tbay.
Many of my coworkers and friends frequent donwtown thunder bay very often, eating, shopping, dancing etc etc. Its a blossoming and busy enterainment area.
This decision simply follows a path that people have made, by voting with their feet, stomach and wallets.
10/10/2012 6:36:36 PM
Glyder says:
I am all for a new arena, and would love to have one. But another $35 mil (and lets not kid ourselves, it will be higher) and we can't even help out the flood victims?

I think before anything like the arena (sorry, multiplex) begins, the disaster should be cleaned up first.

And where is this money coming from? Taxes obviously, and fundraising. So now we will have competition from the disaster relief and the new multiplex fundraisers, on top of the United Way, all the other non-profits, and who knows what else.

Have we even started paying for the marina yet? It's not even done yet, and we are already looking to start another massive project.

If the multiplex happens, forget about any other projects for this city. There is going to be a serious shortage of funds...
10/10/2012 12:34:17 PM
panzerIV says:
Remember that this project is still a couple years away before construction would likely start. They are still collecting income from the Tbaytel and Thunder Bay hydro special divident to pay for this project.

The city has its safe homes project which was available for residents and continues to be as per the recent 211 news article.

The money will be saved and then leveraged to get private and upper levels of government dollars to invest in this site. The city manager has said he doesn't want this to be directly on the backs of taxpayers multiple times.

The marina (phase 2) is part of the ReNew Thunder Bay plan which also talks about investing in the multiplex, golf links 4 laning and more.

+Government/News+$!26+Strategic+Initiatives/docs/Renew+Thunder+Bay+Report+to+Council+Nov.+23$!2c+2009.pdf - is the link to the renew thunder bay plan.
10/10/2012 12:49:18 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
"money will be saved...etc...etc..." It must be wonderful owning a Crystal Ball. Can you get any future winning Lotto numbers off it?
10/15/2012 12:38:49 PM
pippirose says:
Surprise, surprise...
Now the city will be divided even more--North core will be the "fun" side (tourists, nice shops, etc) and the south side will be the welfare office, court house, hang-around spots, empty store-fronts, no decent downtown cafes etc.
It doesn't take much imagination to imagine what both cores will look like in 10 years time--and where the tax money will be going.
10/10/2012 12:35:31 PM
edhtbon says:
No it doesn't take much imagination at all... The north side of town will be the entertainment district (or the "fun" side as you call it). This will be the leisure/shopping/recreation side of town. The south core will be the administrative/governance/working side of town. Offices, smaller lunch spots and stores to grab a few items before heading home will pop up to serve the working crowd there.

When you look at the total investment into facilities/infrastructure on both sides of town, its actually quite comparable. The cost of the courthouse plus the new DSSAB building in addition to coming developments int the south core will be pretty well equal to that of the waterfront, multiplex and coming developments in the north core.
10/10/2012 12:50:17 PM
student21 says:
THUNDER BAY IS NOT A BIG ENOUGH TOWN TO SUPPORT 2 DOWNTOWNS... get over it! I think having the new facility downtown would be great!!! I would rather have one THRIVING downtown than sad attempts at 2 separate downtown's that are half vacant...
10/10/2012 12:47:30 PM
tsb says:
Until city council opens up Intercity to high density residential development like Mississauga did around its Square One Shopping Centre in the 1980s, we're going to continue having two separate downtowns.

From a return on investment standpoint, downtown is by far the better option. Suburban multiplexes always end up as white elephants. Ask any city that has built one in the past 30 years!
10/10/2012 1:16:03 PM
Yo_tbay says:
Well said, student21, I completely agree. Thunder Bay has never gotten past the whole 2-town mentality and though there has been growth (Intercity), it's still clearly divided and way too competitive. I agree there should be one thriving downtown in a city, and maybe the waterfront + a new multiples are the positive anchors. Naysayers step forward, you're up!
10/10/2012 1:27:08 PM
edhtbon says:
If your reasoning was correct, Fort William or Port Arthur should've died off long ago and the other would've absorbed the remnants of the unsuccessful community. It is an unorthodox set-up, but ~50 000 people (T-Bay divided in half for simplicity's sake and half to support each core area) is enough to support a relatively small core area.

And how would one go about picking one over the other? And how would one go about eliminating a core area?
10/10/2012 1:28:16 PM
richie says:
Thunder Bay is also a town in the boondocks, a backwoods town. This is the main reason the hockey team will be a colossal failure, along with the pathetic history in supporting hockey teams in this town. When the anchor tenant loses big, the multiplex loses big.

This is definitely going to be a top 5 money loser when it comes to event centres/sports facilities in canada, right up there with the big o in montreal.

10/10/2012 1:58:53 PM
CM Punk says:
Tannoy, the negative comments that will come sure have some sound reasons for their arguments.
It does not take a study to figure out we need a new entertainment core with a multiplex acting as a hub for events.
One needs to not look too far to see how other cities are set up. Duluth for example.

I do agree with others who say traffic and good old parking will be an issue. Nobody seems to be using the parkade built years ago near St. Andrew church. Why?

I also agree that its gonna cost more then $35 million. People have a short memory, the hospital for example.

Fix the roads first and then come back to this idea. We need it, I don't dispute that. But don't give me the good old excuse we gotta raise taxes for it or some kind of fund.

Flood victims need help, city is in debt, Fricot wants cash for the ReGen, charities are in higher demand, a new water plant is needed, and you wanna talk about an arena.

I will let Vinny Mc know to bring the WWE here so I can defend my title.
10/10/2012 12:51:02 PM
joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
One vote decided the loaction just like that??
10/10/2012 12:52:30 PM
jb says:
What are you talking about? There wasn't a vote for the location.
10/11/2012 2:31:04 PM
ring of fire dude says:
The Artist rendition forgot to add the pan-handlers and the people passed out on benches . May as well put a Police satellite office inside too . And what is the City going to do about a bus depot and whats that going to cost us ? Guaranteed a 10% rate increase in our taxes within a year .
10/10/2012 1:00:46 PM
rootbear says:
This has to go through....why else would they have spent money on a "downtown" sign entering from the east onto the new fancy clover at Hodder and Expressway! LOL
10/10/2012 1:04:33 PM
BlueJay12 says:
Are you kidding me? Where did they get this $106.1 million total project cost from, and this isn't including parking? That price is insane. Here are some other multiplex costs:

Oshawa - General Motors Centre (6,100 seats)
$45 million in 2006
$49.4 million in 2012 dollars

Sault Ste.Marie - Essar Centre (5,000 seats)
$25 million

Kelowna BC - Prospera Place (6,685 seats)

$20 million - 1999
$25.8 million in 2012 dollars

Who put this report together and I hope council asks questions!
10/10/2012 1:11:17 PM
SBJforever says:
Maybe the mayor from Montreal or the Quebec Liberals?
10/10/2012 9:24:30 PM
CJ says:
Once again our city has proven they have zero common sense. Have fun trying to park. LOL.
10/10/2012 1:13:05 PM
Chaos says:
garbage in = garbage out
10/10/2012 1:15:15 PM
jimmyboy says:
Mmmmmmmm....is this really a WIN...as posters such as TBDR the armchair economist of all times says it is...and pray tell what exactly is it that you know and understand about URBAN PLANNING.???

Oh and did he miss the $350,000.00 in annual losses...keeping in mind the report on the annual losses was 1 million prior to this.!!!
How about all the other priority items that this city is in so desperate need of...such as sewer and water infrastructure...roads that are not even close to being repaired fast enough...oh and I see most have totally forgotten about our 3rd eye sore of a downtown core....that being good old Simpson Street.???

Look like everyone and I do mean everyone wants to pretend it does not even exist...let alone the entire Simpson St. neighborhood...which is one of the many run down areas that we have in this city...in which people reside.

Man we apparently still have people in the city without furnaces after the May flood...Thunder Bay...Superior by Nature is a joke!
10/10/2012 1:20:00 PM
Conker2012 says:
The rest of thunder bay should not have to pay for the mistakes of east enders that didn't think to ask if the house had flooding problems when they we buying their home. I know that I would never buy a house that has had flooding issues in the past unless I was presented evidence that the problems had been remediated.

We need this facility badly. The NOSM conference had to split over two sites because we don't have a large enough space for such an event.

You want lower taxes? Promote dense residential living. A single mid rise residential building in a downtown area generates more tax than a several suburban blocks. It requires less infrastructure to support dense urban living than it does to support the suburbs that we keep building. Why do you think Toronto, Mississaga, Barrie and other center promote urban living? lower taxes. The event center down town will drive up downtown property values and property taxes that will keep your suburban taxes down. It's win win
10/10/2012 2:31:24 PM
tiredofit says:
Just to point out, the "East Enders" as you put it were just the first to experience our failing infrastructure. So when it happens in Northwood or County Park next, who's to blame? How about Westfort?

The city needs to fix the infrastructure before they start spending millions and in this case it will be double what they project, every city project is.

My property taxes have more than doubled since 1999 and not a hell of a lot has been fixed. But lots of *Pet Projects* get built now don't they. The poor "East Enders" can't get the help and support they need from the city today, check the weather lately?

We need a new centre, no question, but let's fix the existing issues first.

As for the location.. geezzzz I'm shocked (tongue in cheek) You knew the minute the hotel was announced it was going there..

I'm more ticked that I'm loosing my parking spot I had to wait 5 months for!!
10/10/2012 4:02:39 PM
imhere says:
Although Inova park is the better location of course the North core got it. This city is still split in two. It's so obvious. One big thing goes to one side and the next big thing to the other side. Forget there is NO room for it in the North core. This should have been put more central.
10/10/2012 1:30:58 PM
Boffo says:
I honestly don't care which side it's built on eventhough I live in Fort William. I just don't want parking to be an issue and perhaps there should be some police patrol when events are happening.
10/10/2012 1:37:56 PM
bluebear1985 says:
It's great to see that they are making up their minds about where to put this place. I know that everybody is entitled to their opinion, but there are a couple of the negative comments I am wondering about, such as the ones from 'tbay 99' 'gar', and 'pippirose'. You're making these comments without giving it a chance. A new multiplex needs to come at some point. We can't have the FWG forever, as nice of a place as it's been for many years. Times are changing, and Thunder Bay needs to make sure it keeps up.
10/10/2012 1:42:45 PM
stuck? says:
What really bothers me is the 200 parking spots below building, which will mostly go to the people being employed there?

I remember the last meeting at the Da Vinci.... wheelchair access wasn't even mentioned; the whole downtown is a sloped environment...

oh yeah parking...It's a great idea to get people walking and exercising again but really, the areas that people have to park in have barely any lighting, (rough estimate here) 75% residential areas are homeowners without driveways going to really appreciate not being able to park near/around their OWN HOUSES so people can walk to their desired events?

I'd be pretty upset to see my whole block littered with cars going to some show and can't be able to park my car in my own housing area.

I agree Innova park is kind of "out there" in terms of access and would be a bit expensive to build up but... that's WHY you would build the area up isnt it? To expand, and introduce new things?

But I forgot... Thunder Bay doesn't like progress!
10/10/2012 1:50:58 PM
woofwoof says:
North core, South core..what difference does it make which side it is built on. This city is not that big.It takes 20 minutes to drive acros town.The Amalgamation happened over 40 years peole.get over it.
10/10/2012 1:52:29 PM
dynamiter says:
What a CROCK - reminds me of Lakehead , the Lakehead ...

Absolutely the most nonsensical bunch of drivel. City after city has tried to renovate their downtown core and it simply does NOT work. Keskus failed, Victoriaville failed, Casino location - failure - Downtown Sault Ste Marie failed, downtown Duluth failed and this will fail as well.

ACCESS - ACCESS - ACCESS

Dont care about which core - neither a Fort Williamite nor a Port Arthurite - but it is ALL about ACCESS. The amenities will follow and in any case - most people dont go for the amenities - they go for the EVENT. We are close to almost everything in any case. I agree with Chaos - garbage in garbage out. This study was designed to lead to the result that it came up with - what a waste of time and dollars. You can bet your bottom dollar that City council members who own property or whose friends and relatives own property and businesses in the Downtown north core wont declare conflict of interest.
10/10/2012 2:10:01 PM
Rob20 says:
If anyone doubts/contests that easy access to/from an event center or any desitnation in this city is not important all you have to do is look at 3 perfect examples:

1)Likely one of the busiest intersections for dining - Balmoral/Expressway intersection of AppleBees, Montanas, The Keg & Caribou.
2)Intercity shopping center area.
3)Complex/TBCA/PA Stadium triangle

All 3 - easy access, plentiful parking.
10/10/2012 2:10:43 PM
Papercut says:
HOW CAN WE AFFORD THIS???????

Raise taxes even more? Seriously, this is idiotic.

10/10/2012 2:10:59 PM
nivlacw says:
This is awesome news. Now lets go ahead with it city council!!!
10/10/2012 2:22:19 PM
maidofpandora says:
Wasn't this going to be a $50 million project? Like a lot of construction in Thunder Bay - the price tag gets bigger with time. By the way, how is it a 'go' when we have less than 50% of the funding secured? Sorry flood victims, hockey comes first.
10/10/2012 2:34:00 PM
jubjub says:
I am extremely doubtful that our provincial and federal government are going to pony up the 70 million given that they are both running austerity budgets and making large cuts across the board. Shouldn't we get this confirmed before we pay consultants to tell us where to build it?

I am all for a multiplex but the 25 million in the renew fund could be broken up and improve many of the sketchy areas that make up this city (including our crumbling infrastructure).
10/10/2012 2:37:42 PM
Conker2012 says:
Please stop complaining about what you are not informed. Please sit and read the actual report before you whine. The Golflinks corridor consultant that is in no way related to this consultant recomended against the multiplex at Innova park. It would not develop jobs and improve thunder bay as a whole but rather spur possible commercial development that would geared towards event guests.

The feasibility study also does not include the cost of the Golf links expansion that has been shelved due to lack of funding and an actual need. Once Innova park becomes a commercial and light industrial area as intended, then there will be a need and a means to offset the cost of the golf links project. The feasibility study also indicated that we would need ANOTHER SET OF LIGHTS ON THE EXPRESSWAY FOR IP. WTF!

Two investors approached the consultants and mentioned they indended at redeveloping older buildings in the core if the multiplex were built there. No such interest in Innova park. READ
10/10/2012 2:51:58 PM
eastender says:
Conker, if you pay enough money under the table or make a deposit to an offshore account you can get a consulting firm to come up with reasons to justify diving out of an airplane without a parachute. When are all you morons gonna realize that there are hidden agendas operating here, and the taxpayer is going to be the sap who pays the tab. I'm not saying that that is the case here but it does make one think. Dont you watch the news about the investigation going on in Queabec? too many similarities here.
10/12/2012 4:33:32 PM
Conker2012 says:
If that is what you think you have serious problems. Do you wear a tin foil hat to bed so the government cannot read your thoughts?

You have to understand all the facts before you jump to conclusions and you need to think critically about the facts.

You said that you could pay a consultant to justify diving out of a plane without a parachute. Even I could justify that. Park the plane beside a deep end of a swimming pool so the door is adjacent to the pools edge. Diving out of a plane would be kinda fun if you ask me.

If Innova park had the attributes needed to be selected I would have supported that site, but the facts are the facts and the north core is a better site. You people that complain and complain and complain are the reason Thunder Bay is stuck in time.
10/15/2012 9:51:36 AM
eastender says:
this whole scheme is just rationale, not facts. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that this is just pork barreling of the highest order. 107 million buys a lot if influence.
10/15/2012 1:54:21 PM
tbnewsjunky says:
Has anyone thought about the parkade that exists? Closer more direct parking that is to come with the new development will surely help, but as someone who parks in the parkade is concerned, parking there is manned by security, frequently patrolled and mere blocks from this new esablishment. If more people would walk a couple blocks than whine and complain about not getting an onstreet parking spot, they would get far lessed bothered about parking issues. Way to go Thunder Bay!
10/10/2012 3:00:34 PM
mercy mercy me says:
i applaud the initiative of a new multiplex and all the events we can be party to with a larger venue, but i dread the thought of commisso and the present council of buffoons being involved in the decision making process, especially with their track record...the only 2 statements i want to hear from them are 'welcome to walmart' and 'thank you for shopping at walmart', and only after they have been vetted to see if they qualify for the job.
10/10/2012 3:02:09 PM
tbnewsjunky says:
Has anyone thought about the parkade that exists? Closer more direct parking that is to come with the new development will surely help, but as someone who parks in the parkade is concerned, parking there is manned by security, frequently patrolled and mere blocks from this new esablishment. If more people would walk a couple blocks than whine and complain about not getting an onstreet parking spot, they would get far lessed bothered about parking issues. Way to go Thunder Bay!
10/10/2012 3:04:27 PM
Akinomschla says:
North Core is wonderful, although I wonder why we have so much waterfront that is being unused such as the old sawmill sites, GWT, NWoods - why can't we develop in these unused locations ...is it environmentally unsafe? Lots of room for abundant parking, there's already a bridge over the tracks, and its close to or on the waterfront .... why do we have to cram everything together ... lets clean up the rest of the waterfront ...
10/10/2012 3:09:58 PM
john says:
They are either in receivership or under the appointment of a bankruptcy trustee. The assets and property will be sold off to pay Buchanan's debt.
10/10/2012 4:25:17 PM
ring of fire dude says:
The cost to remediate those two toxic dumps would amount to 10's of millions of dollars , and that's not even counting the underwater blobs at both sites that Uncle Buck left behind for the taxpayers .
10/10/2012 5:49:19 PM
The Beaver..... says:
New signs up on the Hy-ways Thunder bay Population 109.000 things must really be going well.
10/10/2012 3:36:12 PM
Cm Punk says:
The sign may say 109,000 people in the city but group that into separate age groups.
I think you will agree that things are not going well.
10/10/2012 3:47:00 PM
Dan DAn says:
Access and parking are meaningless without support. If access and parking are all that were needed, then the multiplex could go anywhere along the highway - in the bush.

Supporting businesses are way more important than parking. Those details can be sorted out.
10/10/2012 4:16:10 PM
dynamiter says:
Is it Dan Dan or Dum Dum ??? Of course parking is important- if it wasnt you wouldnt have the problems and complaints associated with the FW Gardens. If it wasnt you wouldnt have the problems and rationale behind the location of Cineplex Theatres. If it wasnt you wouldnt have the FW BIA ask for parking meter relief at Xmas time to compete with the mall.

This whole idea and misconception that the Event center/ AKA large hockey rink is going to lift up the neighbouring restaurant and other businesses is such a big bunch of bunk. It doesnt at the DECC - it is the same distance from the DECC to Grandma's/ Red Lobster etc as it is from ANOVA park to Montana's - get on Google earth and map it out.

People want to be able to get to the event park easily and get away quickly. Downtown PA besides being off center from the city is very hard to access for the majority of TB residents. Anova is highway 90 % of the way for the majority of the people. This site is to justify the waterfront $$$.
10/10/2012 10:37:59 PM
bttnk says:
dynamiter you are in the minority and have very little knowledge of event centre development and economic impact. It isn't a misconception, it is based on hundreds of cities studying and reaping the benefits of having an event centre located in the core of their city. I challenge you to think beyond having to walk a few blocks to a game (are you that lazy?) and read some literature on event centre development. As someone who HAS made a career in event centre development, I assure you the jury is out on the most suitable locations for development and economic sustainability.
10/11/2012 12:22:13 PM
dynamiter says:
Actually bttnk - I am not in the minority, there are many of us. I believe that we were sold a bill of goods. All the choices right from the start were directed towards supporting downtown north core/harbour front.
All you did was to insult me and not answer my points and claim you were an expert. Some expert!!
And it is not about a short walk - I walk quite a bit thank you.
But lets look at the two northern and closest examples - Sault and DECC - both are close to the downtown cores - both have a great deal of open parking ( Sault - big parking lot of the mall across the street) DECC ( whole industrial area was bulldozed and nothing but parking - plus an underground/above ground walkway from their downtown core to the center). Yet neither of these facilities has made their cores a place to be. Both of these places still have a walk/drive to get to their restaurants etc - about the same as Anova park. But both do have good access routes including major highways. Get my point???
10/11/2012 6:36:31 PM
Steven says:
East end floods. Millions and millions needed to pay for fixes/litigation

Infrastructure crumbling. Millions and millions needed to be put aside years ago and the total to fix them just keeps getting higher and higher.

The city is in a huge debt hole for a city our size.

All this being said, we want to hurry and build an events centre? Isn't this the place that was meant to cost $50,0000,00 and then they said $65,000,000 and now they are saying $106,100,000.00
Lets be honest: True cost will be $150-170,000,000.0
(because we're in Thunder Bay and everything seems to cost 50% extra for some strange reason, possibly mafia, possibly collusion, and usually because of poor planning)

So the plan is to beg the broke province and feds to get most of this money?

Can I ask all of you on this board: Do you really have the money and the time to go to every 20-30 nights a year EACH per person to fill this place? That includes your kids and old people. Think about it. Its insane.
10/10/2012 4:42:54 PM
daryl060761 says:
Maybe we can park on the roof! ;)
10/10/2012 5:11:26 PM
publicdomain says:
I have never agreed with the idea of the multiplex. We cannot afford it and it shouldn't be built, especially after the flooding Thunder Bay is still recovering from. Unfortunately, we will all be paying for this whether it is something we wanted or not. It may have made sense to the individuals involved in making the decision, but no one asked me and I wonder just how many city residents were asked for their input?
10/10/2012 5:15:26 PM
tbayguy009 says:
'how many city residents were asked for their input?'

Ummm the short answer is ... only the important ones.

Somewhere around 150-200 showed up to voice their opinions. And henceforth the world WAS changed. It is top priority ya know.

Face it, the governement sponsored contractors need another 'pet' project to suck money out of. They have homes to pay for. Imagine a city with amost ZERO primary industry left, and some people are still living the high life. By welfare check or government contract, the source is the same.

If you thought this was a democracy ... think again.

Democracy is only your right to vote for your next dictator.

I will bring it up again ... isn't there a bylaw stating that expenditures of this size MUST for voted for by plebicite?

They are just shoveling the renew thunder bay fund into another account that is protected from actually fixing infrastructure. That 'slush' fund has one purpose. Play money.

It'll burn up in a flash and and once started they will...
10/11/2012 7:58:07 PM
Escroft says:
Steven, there shouldn't have been ANYTHING built in East End in the first place. It's originally a swampland, which takes in water. Those buildings in East End are like 60 years old. They shouldn't even be insurable. Half this city is unnecessary, when you look at the bigger picture. Almost half the buildings in this city are so old, they should just be torn down. Are you seriously one of those people who think Thunder Bay should always stay the same? The same flat, dilapidated, ancient 1900's city that previous councils let rot in the gutter for over 30 years? I'm the type of person that sees tremendous change. Thunder Bay could easily support 200,000 people in the area it covers. The only thing keeping people out are A: THINGS TO DO FOR YOUTH, TEENS, AND ADULTS / B: MODERNIZED INFRASTRUCTURE TO BRING GOOD BUSINESS TO THE DOWNTOWN CORE / C: JOBS! This center could bring in 300+ jobs to the 8000 people who are out of work in this city! Stop living in fantasy land. Nothing's free!
10/10/2012 5:27:06 PM
eastender says:
Are you serious escroft? You want to tear down all the old houses and what would you do with the people you displace from these "Old" houses you dont like? Where are you going to get 200,000 people to populate this city? Where would they work? I know, we'll put them on welfare and/or get more government contracts so they can get jobs, and then raise taxes to the 50% level just so we can pay for these fake jobs. You should runfor council, you would fit in perfectly with the rest of the deluded brainwaves that are there now.
10/13/2012 1:31:09 AM
mysterybuff says:
Once again the Mayor flip flops - buys into Administration's ploys. We can't afford this people! Not the right time, not the right location! I believe this has more to do with what the developer wants at the waterfront rather than what the people want!
10/10/2012 5:53:44 PM
tsb says:
For all you people complaining about function, think about this: the only intersections in this city that get gridlocked are the ones where arterial roads cross the Expressway. How do you think the intersections of Oliver and Harbour at the Expressway are going to handle the sudden influx of traffic?

Once Golf Links is widened, there will be 3 exits dumping over 1,200 cars (an average of 400 cars each, simultaneously) onto two four-lane roads. One of those exits is right-in/right-out, meaning traffic can ONLY go to the Harbour/TBExpressway intersection from Innova Park at that point. Gridlock WILL happen at Innova Park, worse than in downtown Port Arthur.

Port Arthur has the benefit of having all of its parking diffused on multiple streets, with multiple arterial roads heading from the events centre site. While Innova has 6 lanes of traffic on two roads to carry its cars away, the downtown site has more than 20 lanes on 12 roads with multiple parking lots, as well as bus terminal.
10/10/2012 5:56:38 PM
YQT says:
Wow, extensive research into all those facts and data.
But you really blew it on one. The facility is gonna be built on the existing site OF THE BUS TERMINAL!!!
10/11/2012 1:59:26 AM
Conker2012 says:
It is clear that you have not read the report. THE BUS TERMINAL IS PART OF THE STRUCTURE IN THE DOWNTOWN MULTIPLEX!!!! LEARN TO READ BEFORE YOU AND ALL THE OTHER NAY SAYERS OPEN YOUR MOUTHS. You look like fools when you spew out garbage that you have no idea about. READ instead of ASSUME. You know what they say about people that assume...
10/11/2012 10:21:18 AM
FinallysomeProgress says:
YES! the committee made the right choice! Now let get this thing rolling. I love the things going on around the waterfront. Skate park, splash pad, skating rink, summer in the parks, movie in the parks, new (non-chain)restaurants. There are tons of things to do downtown and the Arena will be the anchor that draws even more visitors. I canot believe the negative comments on this site. People complaining about parking, taxes, crime. come on get oer it! I think peole will be just fine walking 3 blocks in January, they won't freeze solid. Taxes. yes they may go up but so what, we need to take this next step as a city. If more people come downtown there will be less crime. ast time I walked downtown at night I had no concerns
10/10/2012 6:03:04 PM
keiths31 says:
Worst...kept...secret...ever...

I would love to be proven wrong with this...but I don't think so. It isn't going to be the windfall the North Core supporters are thinking it will be. Watch this become an election issue...
10/10/2012 6:05:42 PM
Vanity says:
What happen to asking the citizens where they want it to go? Innova is a better spot hands down, easy in and out access to expressways, plenty of free parking and lots of entertainment and resturants close by.
10/10/2012 6:19:27 PM
wrenchman says:
Wow to all you that think this is good. we will have a 5700 seat facility with 200 parking spots,now that's smart, so if your not there 2 HRS. early you get to park at inter city area or inova park where there is room and catch a bus, or you can walk 10-15 blocks at -30 after a hockey game good news all
10/10/2012 6:41:36 PM
Whodo says:
Bluejay12 is asking the right question so is Steven...Why is it costing so MUCH???

This $106M must include a parkade, right?
Either that, or like the man says the Mafia in Construction really is alive and well in Thunder Bay.
10/10/2012 6:49:15 PM
trollol says:
I ain't want none my tax dollars to be spent on nothin' but what suits my own personal interests. If it aint got much to do 'bout huntin', fishin', or my pick up truck, wat good is it?
How dare those city hall folks tell us that thunder bay should change. I ain't trust no one but my own kind and my own mind! Now, ya'hear we is good da way we are.
10/10/2012 7:06:58 PM
tbayguy009 says:
Ya sa. Weez good da way we are. Dats for sure.

No ones gots any monez to pay for dem tickets anyway. Just doz rich folk. Don't know nuttin bout hackey anyway. They just need sometin to yell at ... cause der livez is so terrible at home.

I'd radder be sitting in a tree, waiting for me to plink a dear wid my crassbow. And den, make some jerky. Dats good to chew on ya no, when i sit on da couch and watch hackey at home. Dats right ... on my OWN couch. Go figer (whenever dat strick thing is over)

Now dat dare dear huntin is a reel sport. An, I donts need no parking lots. I likes to walk. It's good fer da lunz. I makes my own fun, and eats it too.
10/11/2012 6:41:31 PM
homelessteen says:
Time to run for office on the grounds of stoping this idea.
10/10/2012 8:05:36 PM
dbenedic says:
I restled with parking many times but dealt with it thinking the new facility would solve the parking issues. Well, for me I can walk to the new centre, and glad I won't have to deal with parking issues myself in my downtown north core. Sorry for the many other patrons though trying to find a parking spot.
10/10/2012 8:06:39 PM
Whodo says:
I'm curious to know how can costs and accessibility be equal between the two locations?
Originally Mr Boychuk said we would need to build a sizable parkade at this location if the north core was chosen. I believe I remember the cost of a parkade was millions. What has changed since then?

Does anyone else remember the proposal for the 'Quieting of Water Street'? Taking it from 4 lanes to 2, a requirement needed to satisfy the railroads concern for pedestrian crossing at Pearl St. during large events at the waterfront. We have not heard mention of this lately???
This will make accessibility a big problem at the north core location if Water Street loses two lanes.
Personally I do not feel we can afford this mega arena/plex, at this time.
If this is such a wonderful idea we should have private investors interested, NO?
Too bad we can not have pull tabs and lotteries(like USA) so the people who support it can put THEIR money where THEIR mouth is!
That way they can prove their support.

10/10/2012 8:13:01 PM
citizenreporter says:
A complex on this grande a scale is ridiculous. Priorities should really be looked at again. We have flood victims throughout the city in need, not just the east end.

Some of these people had full coverage but are having insurance claim issues. Mostly being jerked around by their insurance adjuster.

Maybe we should help these people rebuild their lives before spending so much on a new facility.
10/10/2012 8:33:36 PM
Steven says:
Another question: How many members of council, their families and close friends, own properties in this area?

If so, they should be barred from voting on anything relating to this events centre due to conflict of interest. THey would essentially be voting for an increase in their property values and more money in their own pockets.

Hazel McAllion was busted for just such a thing in Missasauga.... I could see it happening here very easily.

If members were to excuse themselves when they find themselves in conflict, as per the municipal act, I bet we'd lose half of council.


On yet another note, HOW ABOUT A VOTE ON THIS PLAN!? put it to the people with somewhere around 60% having to be in favour before this thing goes forward. I bet most people, once they really thought about it, would vote no.
10/10/2012 8:36:48 PM
raen_rfm says:
I wouldn't go and start bashing Hazel, she ran Mississauga in the black for many years, a feat that not many a mayor can attest to.
10/17/2012 10:34:47 AM
garfield001 says:
I am all for a multiplex. The Gardens is insane at the Thunderwolves games. There is very little room in the lobby and one can barely move during intermissions. You have to fight your way to the washrooms. Parking is difficult unless you arrive early. It is time for a new venue but I won't be supporting anything in the new multiplex if it is located downtown because of the parking issue. 200 parking spots on sight, woopee. I don't know how many spots the parkade has but I'm sure there aren't enough for the amount of people that will be driving to the events. Really, where are people going to park? If you're going to build a new venue, don't build it where parking is still going to be an issue, not to mention the congestion downtown. Innova Park would have such easy access in and out plus parking. This is most important to me but obviously not important to the planners.
10/10/2012 8:39:30 PM
moonpie says:
Am I the only one that thinks building a new facility amongst a bunch of slummy looking run-down buildings is very unappealing?
10/10/2012 8:46:34 PM
hardrawkin says:
Well that was a no brainer.
10/10/2012 9:21:30 PM
spooner19 says:
This is great news and its about time. For all you people that have to complain about parking and having to walk a few blocks, have you ever been outside of the city limits? Every city has the same problem for any big event, maybe get off your big behinds and walk a few blocks it may do you some good!
10/10/2012 9:26:48 PM
canadaboy2000 says:
Even though I am as excited as the next person with the idea that we may have a new arena, and all the concerts and possible hockey expansion that would come with it...

I just cant help but be very annoyed that they choose the location they did, and the cost seems astronomical.
Seriously, $106 Million for a 5,700 seat arena? Some NHL sized arena's cost just $20 - 30 Million more than that to build. Its insane. Looks like we're getting hozed again.

I just feel that the decision to put this arena downtown is an emotional one, using bad judgement for the users of the facility. We simply dont have the accessibility or parking downtown to make it user friendly. 90% of the people going to events will be driving, and guess what- there is ZERO parking. Zero, zilch, nada.

I feel Innova was the much better choice. No congestion, or parking issues. And any business opportunities would be available there too. Its a clean slate for developers to create something done right for a change.
10/10/2012 9:38:12 PM
Conker2012 says:
That is where you are wrong the event center is more than just an arena, it is also a convention center. Plus it is actually in line compared to NHL sized arenas. The proposed new arena for the Edmonton Oilers is over $400M for a 20-25K seat facility. $106M is inline with the costs. I live on the south side and the only place i would want this facility is the north core. Look to where the youth spend their time in this city, they are the ones paying for this and using it long term not you old farts that want it in Innova Park, (appologies to the old farts that want it down town, the future generations love you). I have two cars and when it is build in the northcore I will take the bus if i don't want to deal with parking since my event ticket will likely be a free buss pass for the evening..... Why FWG failed is because all the parking was in residential areas, the North core location the parking is in commercial areas and you will go to their restaurants and bars. Just wait and see.
10/11/2012 11:13:28 AM
canadaboy2000 says:
Reading some of the other comments.. some people keep saying that surrounding business is most important, and access and parking isnt that important and can be sorted out later.
Excuse me, but parking CANT be sorted out later.
It is what it is, and always will be- as far as parking goes downtown. Your not going to get any more parking spaces. You cant, in fact- there is no room to make any. Not unless were going to start knocking down buildings.
I guess unless you have a car, and drive places- you wouldnt understand.

The great thing about a empty lot- like Innova, is you can design it right, and it will attract business on its own. You dont have to cram it where it doesnt fit. Hotels, bars, restraurants and stores will come to it, if there is profit to be made. We could expand our number of "districts" people keep bringing up.

But of course we wont do that. Idealism will triumph common sense. Thunder Bay never ceases to amaze, in its ability to have zero common sense.
10/10/2012 10:25:20 PM
ring of fire dude says:
After the Multi-Plex is built , watch all the owners of the "Entertainment Establishments" start to whine and ask for compensation because their Patrons cannot park anywhere near their businesses on "event" nights . Put it to a plebiscite for the next election and let the Citizens of TBay decide whether we need it and where it will go , not where some "Consultant" with a business only mentality wants it to go .
10/11/2012 10:03:49 AM
crankypants says:
no one has mentioned where the damn bus terminal is going to go?!?!
10/11/2012 12:20:14 AM
oldtimerqt says:
I think the city should fix its under laying east end problems first...
Forget about the patch jobs... here and there..

Fix the basic physical and organizational structures needed for the operation of a society,, do I need to say more..
10/11/2012 6:30:11 AM
sam says:
I love the idea of a new multiplex in the downtown core. But lets not kid ourselves, parking close to the multiplex will be extremely difficult and if you do get to park close by, getting out will be hell. But I will put up with it.
10/11/2012 7:32:31 AM
Chaos says:
Put it to a vote Mr. Hobbs like you promised during your election!
10/11/2012 7:56:51 AM
Big Head says:
How about we do this. Since it's going there, we raise the taxes of all the businesses that will benefit from the build. If there is no parking and you have to walk a few blocks to get there, you might just stop in a local bar for something to eat or drink. Raise the taxes for that area. I mean double or tripple. Because the business in Westfort doesn't benefit from this at all. So why should they pay? Then lets see what the business community starts to say about this wonderful thing?
10/11/2012 8:40:07 AM
Mazda323 says:
Surprised that the Pool 6 property was not chosen for this project. It kills two birds with one stone: you get your downtown location and there's a lot of room for parking. Didn't we pay to have the elavator demolished so that the land could be used? That was well over ten years ago now...let's use it!
10/11/2012 8:53:25 AM
dozerman says:
WOW...I am speechless!!!!
10/11/2012 9:09:04 AM
3eyedmonkey says:
Way to go Thunder Bay. To all those who wine about parking I would have to assume you have never been to an actual concert or sporting event in a large city. Yes there will be congestion and parking issues but most of you negative people wont be out anyway as you seem to enjoy just sitting at home and complaining as your source of entertainment.
I am personally happy to see such a center coming to town and hope to see a great lineup of artists, bands, sports events that would otherwise bypass our city to play elsewhere.
10/11/2012 9:35:27 AM
dwb says:
What a load of crap. Just like the wind farm the fix was in from day one. The most corrupt city council in Canada tells the consultant what they prefer and voila the consultant picks the downtown waterfront. Now Anthony Leblanc and Ice Edge can get a free arena and the city will pay them to manage it. Resign council members resign.
10/11/2012 10:07:05 AM
farmgal says:
Was there any doubt the consultants picked the Downtown core. That's what they were told to do. I will never attend anything in the complex it it is there. There is already too much congestion and parking is a nightmare now. A parkade will cost millions which of course will not be included in the cost of the complex. Glad I don't live in the city limits. My taxes are high enough. Yours will be horrendous when they start building this. If the complex were built in Innova Park there opportunity for business to grow with lots of vacant land and many restaurants/bars close enough. Have you ever seen where Scotibank Place is in Ottawa. In the middle of nowhere. The highways are jammed when an event is going on there. I would attend something at Innova Park but not Downtown.
10/11/2012 10:19:30 AM
Conker2012 says:
I love how people think we have congestion now...LOL... really?? spend an hour on a freeway in Toronto trying to go 10kms that is congestion....that is a nightmare. People think 10 cars at a red light is a traffic jam in this city, it is pathetic. I can say that I have never spent more than 30 minutes in my car in this city trying to get from one place to another. That includes getting stuck behind a train. Wake up we have it good here. If you read the report they want to put more traffic lights on the thunder bay expressway for the INNOVA option... that would be a NIGHTMARE. The only alternative would be an overpass..... there is a $20M bill that would need to be added. Driving is good in this city and it would be better for events down town if the city stopped closing FW road for large events and people actually used the overpass that was build for them to cross with. Down the road we could turn FW rd into a HWY if there is a demand for high speed way out of the down town core.
10/11/2012 10:57:33 AM
Hey Boy says:
I couldn't agree with you more Conker. I lived in Southern Ontario for 6 years and I am moving back down there in the next couple months because I love it down there. So the decision of the location of the multiplex doesn't really concern me but this is the right place for it. Your so right in pointing out that people in this area have no idea what congestion means. There is no such thing as a traffic jam in this city. 4-5pm on Memorial doesn't count as congestion. It takes about 10 minutes tops to get anywhere in the city. I think a lot of these people complaining about congestion and parking have never ventured outside of Thunder Bay in their lives. The only thing that bugs me about driving in this city is lights on the expressway. There should be over-passes at every intersection on the expressway but at the end of the day it's no big deal. If you go to an event in any city, after it lets out, it's busy and congested. Thats just how it is, deal with it.
10/11/2012 12:46:50 PM
Quiet Observer says:
I think its time to look at this as more than a competition between the North Ward and the South Ward. Fort William and Port Arthur have ceased to exist. This development, combined with the waterfront development, the resulting infusion of life into the city, are positive movements forward for everyone. we will all benefit from and economic spin off. I know we are all relying on the boom from mining but if that materializes (and I'm not convinced that most of the business will not go to Sudbury where they have the expertise and infrastructure) it will be 10 years down the road. We need to look forward. Gretzky said to go where the puck is going not where it is. This forward pass will set Thunder Bay up to win gold. (and by the way - parking isn't a problem - we will adapt - we will survive - and nobody will die as a result of a 10 minute walk)
10/11/2012 11:08:50 AM
tbayny says:
hold the phone...a bike in the photo? what is happening to this city.....
10/11/2012 11:09:31 AM
bttnk says:
Just another step in the right direction for a city that is taking GIANT steps forward in re-development. The North Core was the only answer to put it simply, but it is nice to see that a Independent feasibility study confirms it. Could it be congested? Perhaps. I can't think of an event centre I've ever been to that is congested during a major event. It is part of the atmosphere that people enjoy. People from FW will drive to the event centre, while people in the North Core will walk. If you think it will be too cold, then maybe you should head south because a cold climate and Thunder Bay are inter-twind. Way to Grow Thunder Bay.
10/11/2012 12:04:45 PM
twace says:
soooo .. the City wants to bring back the North Core by putting this Centre "downtown" .. um, hello? parking IS limited! I don't think too many business owners would be happy that their parking spots for customers will now be taken up by ppl attending an event at the Centre. Creating a 200 parking lot is a joke! Thinking that there is ample parking on 20 side streets "nearby" is unrealistic. Ppl call and complain when their street is lined with cars now due to soccer/baseball/football games .. but they'll be okay with Centre event parking congested streets?? Ri-ight!
come on Thunder Bay! what are we trying to accomplish with this "vision"?? ... another Duluth?! I guess if it worked there, it should work here right? you bet!
10/11/2012 12:07:56 PM
olive garden says:
bull doze the casino move it to nova park, plenty of parking space for the new event center end of story.
10/11/2012 12:11:16 PM
bttnk says:
Just another step in the right direction for a city that is taking GIANT steps forward in re-development. The North Core was the only answer to put it simply, but it is nice to see that a Independent feasibility study confirms it. Could it be congested? Perhaps. I can't think of an event centre I've ever been to that is congested during a major event. It is part of the atmosphere that people enjoy. People from FW will drive to the event centre, while people in the North Core will walk. If you think it will be too cold, then maybe you should head south because a cold climate and Thunder Bay are inter-twind. Way to Grow Thunder Bay.
10/11/2012 12:15:02 PM
Tom Sanderson says:
It didn't take a rocket scientist to tell you where this centre was going to be build if and when. To those sissy's that don't like the location and state they won't be stepping into the place...enjoy your little world while the rest enjoy the big world. The city can build it where ever they want and there is nothing you can do about it so suck it up. I'm glad they chose the north core of "THUNDER BAY". Oh, by the way..if you're a country pumpkin and don't pay taxes to the city you have nothing to say about this centre and it's location.
10/11/2012 1:17:05 PM
residentJ says:
So, basically the argument for Innova park is this: there's lots of space for parking, it's close to the slowway (I mean expressway), and it's close to Montana's and Five Forks. Do I have that right?

I have otherwise heard no compelling reasons to locate it there. Downtown PA makes the most sense. An entertainment facility should be in the entertainment district. I don't know what could be simpler than that.
10/11/2012 2:08:37 PM
Jon Powers says:
Talk about a Giant Leep Backwards!

1992 Proposel 6,000-8,000 Max Seats : Cost $35,Milion.

2012 5,700 seats $107,Million Plus.

Yet again build smaller and increased costs.

Enough of the "Business Well-Fare Train".

Of course Businesses are going to benifit they don't have to aquire any new costomers.

Their City Government did it for them!

They the businesses didn't pay for this project their clientele did.

Just a Gaint Leap Back!

Too small in seat size.


Great Story!
tbnewswatch.com
10/11/2012 2:50:13 PM
jimmyboy says:
Unfortunately our local politicians and city administration seem to have taken their eye off the ball so too speak...what ever happened to the addiction centre they were all talking about...oh and what about additional affordable housing for the ever growing population of the dis-advantaged.???

$106 million would go a long way to address the social ills which are a plague in Thunder Bay...now Hobbs and company have their focus on a brand new prize...one that will cost the tax base on top of the ones we already heavily subsidize...#1 being the Community Auditorium...and yet they want to shut down Municipal Golf course...and potentially save $$$ so we all can donate towards the 1.4 million annually worth of red ink for the Multiplex...what a bunch of geniuses...talk about the blind leading the blind!
Tbnewswatch.com

10/11/2012 4:59:16 PM
nvjgu says:
LOL, 107 million, It's going to be more like 160 million plus. And to think the city has to ask for flood donations from the public. Pathetic.
10/11/2012 5:01:56 PM
collie says:
Should be THUNDER BAY LOSES!!!!

Honestly people WHY is this going forward?? What happened to choices of locations?? Really what they did do was give you the appearance that You actually had a choice! I attended these so called meetings and this was suppose to be in the FUTURE not now, As well WHO chose these crazy locations in the first place?? Not the people thats for sure. They picked the locations and let you give opinions on them but still made the choice leaving the public on thinking they had a choice!! THERE are way better locations that were mentioned originally that were LOST. Now there is more coming up! This chosen location is SMALL with NO parking! but think the St. Joseph Care Group is leaving the LPH when their new building is up, lots of land there never mind the PAGH site NOW. NEVER mind the fact WE do not need another HOCKEY rink WE NEED A CONVENTION CENTRE! MAIN FOCUS PERIOD NO HOCKEY!! Conventions Concerts Festivals Kids Shows ect.. BUT 1st fix the SEWER system!!
10/11/2012 10:14:52 PM
stuck? says:
2 thumbs up from me.
10/12/2012 10:10:14 AM
Tbaybuddha says:
Totally a great idea. I'm all for the multiplex and super excited for what it could bring to the city in terms of hockey games, concerts, conventions, etc... My only concern is that they need more seats!! 5700 seats really isn't that much, sporting events and concerts are going to sell out so quickly.... Why not make it more like 8000-10000 seats to get the most out of it and allow for more people to enjoy whatever's going on there and earn more profit from it the end!
10/12/2012 11:14:03 AM
farmgal says:
Well TS I may be a country pumpkin but I can still express my opinion. The city will want all the surrounding areas to support the Complex too. Our tax dollars may not pay for it (thank heaven) but our patronage will be required. I have travelled extensively and have attended concerts in other cities and have seen the congestion but for the most part it is traffic trying to enter or leave the "PARKING LOTS" at the complexes not people walking many blocks crossing streets all over the place which will happen here. I prefer to remain safe and away from that.
10/12/2012 11:35:56 AM
tbayguy009 says:
First, even if you don't live inside the city limits you will subsidize this project through the profit taking of TBayTel. (if you have TBayTel - but my guess is you do)

Second, people like Tom Sanderson (probably an activist using a cattle prod to push this forward because he has business interests) says "The city can build it where ever they want and there is nothing you can do about it so suck it up."

So what is he saying? Even if you live in the city, no one will budge on this.

Living in the country, people still pay provincial and federal taxes (and in many cases municiple taxes, just not to TBay city hall). "They" ignore that.

Look at how much 'strong arming' is necessary to push this agenda.

You DO HAVE A VIOCE. Tell the province and the feds that you don't want taxpayers money WASTED on a sports center (their first application for sports was rejected, so they changed the name to convention center)

This project should be a concern for EVERYONE. In the city, and outside it.
10/14/2012 8:19:26 AM
tervuren05 says:
Thunder Bay does need a new Arena to replace FWG. Its just not the right time. This city needs major work done on roads and sewer.

If this project goes ahead at the suggested location , our city planners had better figure a way to ensure major public transportion improvement for events as you will find at any major centre in Canada. All the large centres that I have attended have great public transportation in an effort to avoid having people driving to such events. North core cant handle the traffic and definately does not have enough parking.

You cant even get a parking spot on a regular evening downtown north core.
10/15/2012 12:41:45 AM
bttnk says:
Once again, I must point out that if parking is the only issue people have with development in the entertainment district (north core) you are missing the point of an event centre completely. You'll probably never be convinced that economic sustainability supercedes a huge flat parking lot. Like many other cities before, if Thunder Bay builds it, they will come. If there is an opportunity for a nearby parking garage, some local entreprenuer is likely to take advantage, but the event centre shouldn't be focused on onsite parking. As confirmed by the consultant study, the focus should be a location within walking distance to eateries, and the greatest asset Thunder Bay has, our marina. This city owes its existence to the waterfront, and some would have us build things and invest as far away as possible.
10/15/2012 2:58:11 PM
tervuren05 says:
Actually bttnk, you dont get the point. Accessability is an asset to an event centre. Starting out with a deterrant that a large portion of our population has a problem with does not make it an attraction. The population that we are talking about are the TAX payers who will be paying for it. In a city the size of ours you need to appeal to the whole population to make it work.
A good example is the yearly fireworks that many wont attend because they dont want to contend with access. Police have to be present every year to keep traffic moving. The area is not designed for heavy traffic. Are we going to pay police to come to every event to direct traffic? That would be more senseless money down the drain.
As for the close by eateries, hmmm , most events are in the evening... after dinner....but if I am hungry I will snack at the event centre and support it. Any area in the city is good for this centre. If there is potential for outside business, they will develope close by.
10/15/2012 5:38:21 PM
bttnk says:
I disagree. Access is no more of an issue than it would be at Innova, as confirmed by the consultant report (I suspect you haven't read it in entirety). Parking has its challenges, but should not be a deal breaker by any means. The younger generation, the generation of the future in this city, like to go for dinner, then out to events. Having lived in NY, Boston, Vancouver, Kitchener and Winnipeg, I can tell you that peripheral estabilishments see an exponential economic boost from an event centre. It is absolutely mandatory that it is therefore located in the entertainment district of the city, not adjacent to the Highway. Again, this has been confirmed by the professional report the consultants issued. In fact, I suspect you wouldn't find a single event centre developer that could in sound mind recommend any other site than the Thunder Bay waterfront.
10/16/2012 10:26:31 AM
TheBatman says:
Some of the big property owners in the area will be the big winners.

Not enough room for the building, and parking.

Does Comuzzi still own the land where his office was ?

10/16/2012 1:43:37 AM
tervuren05 says:
Comparing Thunder Bay to NY,Boston,Vancouver, and Winnipeg is not a comparison that should be even looked at. Large populated areas need a small percentage of locals to fill their event centres. They also get alot of people from smaller cities like Thunder Bay to come to their events because they have large events that we would not get here. We wont be attracting people from other cities except for maybe small town North Western Ontario. All the big cities get the same events.
Our community Auditorium has alot of shows that we all go to here in Thunder Bay. Usually fills up. Has large parking lot, good access and those who want something to eat after, use eateries on route, which benifits all eateries in Thunder Bay. This is Thunder Bay, 20 minutes from everything. This in not over populated big city Canada and never will be. We have to appeal to our whole population as we will need 5% of them to fill this event centre.
10/16/2012 1:24:46 PM
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