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2012-10-12 at 15:20

Parking problems?

By Jodi Lundmark, tbnewswatch.com
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THUNDER BAY -- One north core business owner doesn’t see an issue with parking in downtown Port Arthur if the proposed multiplex is to be built there.

“If people really want to come to it, they will find a spot to park and it will be within 800 metres of the multiplex,” said Jim Commuzzi, owner of Rooster’s Bistro and Waterfront District BIA member.

If people drove around during Blues Fest, Rib Fest or the Canada Day celebration this summer, there was more than enough parking with the Heart of the Harbour parkade, street parking and public and private lots, said Commuzzi, who owns three parking lots with a total of 75 spaces on Van Norman and St. Paul Streets.

While he has tenants that use those spaces during weekdays, they are open to the public at night and on the weekends.

“Rib Fest, we had 25,000 people over three days. It was a block and a half from my parking lots…on those days I had a total of eight cars in my parking lots. Blues Fest, over three days they had over 17,000 people. On those three days I had less than seven cars in my three parking lots,” he said.

Commuzzi said he doesn’t know what the problem is when it comes to the debate as to whether the north core or Innova Park would be better suited for the proposed multiplex. In a study released Wednesday, consultants found the north core to be the better site citing economic impact as the main factor.

A number of people have voiced their opinions on social media sites and in tbnewswatch’s comment section that they feel there would be more and closer parking at the Innova Park site.

In the Citizens for an Innova Park Multiplex Facebook group, Teri Joseph said some people already don’t attend hockey games at the Fort William Gardens because of a lack of parking.

“Well you can guarantee to see even less want to venture several blocks to go watch a game,” Joseph wrote.

As a patron of many of the north core restaurants, Margaret Phirbny is worried there won’t be parking available for those dining out.

“Really don’t know what I will do if there is no parking available for restaurant patrons because event goers have take all available spots. Don’t think that I would walk for blocks in the area in the winter particularly,” she wrote.

Alun Lloyd, a principal for the BA Group, was responsible for the parking and transportation portion of the consultants’ report and said they both sites do work for a multiplex, but building a 2,000 unit parking facility at Innova Park, which would include rebuilding some of the roads and adding new access roads would cost more. The price tag is an estimated $10 million.

Also, parking at the Innova site would not be free. It would cost about $5 during events.
With downtown Port Arthur, existing parking can be used along with the construction of a 200 unit parking facility, which cost around $6 million.

There are currently 1,800 city-owned parking spaces in the north core, including the parkade and street parking. There are an additional 2,000 private spaces. All of the parking is within a 10 to 12 minute walk to where the multiplex would be built.

“It’s making use of existing parking, building less parking and ultimately spending less money on parking compared to Innova Park,” Lloyd said.

 

 

 

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Comments

We've improved our comment system.
realitycheck411 says:
I cannot help to express my joy at the fact the PA location was chosen over Innova site. Had the Innova site been selected, we would have had this white elephant of a structure in the middle of nowhere and people complaining about paying $5 dollars for parking.

Port Arthur just happens to be in a renaissance of sorts and we all should be supporting this in attempt to build out from there.

Thunder Bay is logistically way to overbound. The Innova park is a prime example of this. While gentrification of the PA core is not ideal, it will surely increase property value and provide a more stable tax base for the city.

At the least, if for some reason parking is ever an issue, the multiplex may just increase the ridership of the city buses.

10/12/2012 4:00:45 PM
sky high says:
I've gone to a few concerts in Toronto and you've got to walk about 20 minutes to get to Rogers Centre, but who cares when you're excited about seeing a great band! I actually loved seeing all the people walking together in droves, no one cared that they were forced to get a bit of excercise! And when there's a big Thunderwolves game you still have to walk sometimes 10 minutes in the cold. My parents talk about the Twins and how far they had to walk when they were filling the Gardens in the 80s, but no one gave a rat's donkey that they had to walk in the cold. I mean the biggest issue the Innova people have is parking...they don't care one iota about the city saving money in the long run or getting this thing built so that Thunder Bay can be on its way to being a real city. I'm starting to think that they are just plain lazy and don't like moving at all. Come on Thunder Bay, lets get off our duthies and move a little!
10/13/2012 8:39:09 AM
eastender says:
Reality, if I want exercise, I will walk aroun d Boulevaard Lake, lift weights, ride my bike, go to the fitness centre. When I come home from a rough week at work, the last thing I want to do is walk 5 blocks in freezing weather, freezing rain, icy conditions, perhaps a blizzard, then do it again after the concert or whatever just to get home. The last thing on my mind after enduring Thunder Bay weather is to get home, warm up, and rest up for the next week. I wont be walking to any restaurant. If I want a a challenge I'll shovel snow, but if I want to be entertained I wnt it to be as unchallenging as possible.
10/13/2012 12:39:25 PM
sky high says:
Ok so what can we do for you then? Offer his royal highness eastender an air conditioned ride in the warmth and a heated limo in the winter right to the front gates of the multiplex? Would you like to be the one controlling the temperature inside the building as well? If everyone thought like you there'd be no entertainment for anyone except rock stars and athletes. Truth be said, Lakeheaders are in really poor shape on average and the statistics back me up. So lift all the weights you want, run around boulevard (like now) but if you refuse to burn a calorie getting to a world class sporting event or concert then you'll just have to stay home or whatever.
10/13/2012 1:04:18 PM
Common cents says:
Now your comparing cherries to watermelons: as for walking to the odd concert twice a year, no big deal.

But for support of Thunder Bay based team as a season ticket holder with 2-3 games per week it is not going to happen.
10/13/2012 1:04:58 PM
rd says:
I have doubt that we need a new facility to maintain our current needs and to also improve our chances of hosting various events that we currently cannot host due to the facilities that we currently have.
The question of down town or Inova Park is one that can be argued from both sides of the table with conviction.
I feel that the more important question is the facility itself and what the facility can do for the city as a tax payer and a business.
We want the city to benefit from the facility in the form of entertainment and usage as well business to benefit from the increase in events and people that will be coming to our community.
The only way that I feel this venue will be successful is if it is a multipurpose faciltiy. And when I say multipurpose it has to be a destination. It will need more than 1 ice surface, it needs ball fields, soccer fileds, it needs parking and most off all it needs to be built for everyone not PA and property values or Innova Park.
10/13/2012 11:48:43 AM
tomthepro says:
I think if the arena is downtown, the city needs to build a subway with at least 8 stations that will take people underground from all of the neighbouring streets because clearly no one is able to walk more than one city block to get somewhere.
10/12/2012 4:05:52 PM
p.o.ed taxpayer says:
Hard to believe the spin that both of these sites would cost the same to develop...Innova was developed for this type of project and should already have the infrastructure in place. The costs to purchase the Shoreline, the beer store and relocate the Hydro sub station and the bus depot has to far exceed any additional development of Innova. Not to mention the millions in demolition costs, but all of this will turn out to be a surprise to administration...This council directed a company to give them a report that matched the preferred location and they got just that...now we will pick up millions a year in debt charges and then we will subsidize a hockey team...but we won't have any say in the matter because everything will be done in-camera and we will have to just trust them...not...
10/12/2012 4:07:18 PM
fastball says:
Yes, but what does Innova do for the city? Nothing, other than a facility and parking lot in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing around there...there's no restaurants, no bars, no stores.
We have to wait til somebody decides to build restaurants, bars, stores, etc up around the Innova area...which may NEVER happen. Practically all of that stuff is downtown already. Remember, it's not just about a facility...it's about a downtown as well. Build it, and people will come. And when people come downtown in large numbers, they spend money in restaurants, bars, and stores. That'll clean out the riffraff hanging around as well.
10/12/2012 5:55:26 PM
Common cents says:
To move from downtown to the trans Canada....

HERE
Tbnewswatch.com

10/13/2012 2:33:26 PM
tomthepro says:
PS. With this downtown site all I can think about is what has happened to me so many times already. I think to myself "I'd love to go to the prospector tonight for some prime rib and those buns - no wait, forget it, I might have to walk a block or two!"

Get off your butt thunder bay!
10/12/2012 4:08:16 PM
ConcernedDenizen says:
I always wonder about the parking lot behind the building beside the Prospector (with the Trip Outdoors in the front), across from 180 Park Ave. There are never cars parked there in the evening when I go to The Prospector, but I worry I'll get ticketed or towed if I park there.
10/12/2012 9:44:03 PM
fastball says:
Firstly, there's an existing large parkade up on Red River, barely a 5 minute walk away. There are parking spots over the way at the Marina - just use the overpass walkway. There are quite a few parking lots down the north core between Park and Camelot, just a few minutes walk away. I'm sure the city could approach the owners of those private lots to facilitate fan parking there at night. There's future parking potential that the city might look at by knocking some old buildings down and paving those lots. Keskus takes up a whole block - what the heck is in there anyway?
But we'd rather park a mile away because it's free - and then cry and moan all night about the parking problem. Spend a buck or two and park close.
10/12/2012 4:10:04 PM
jd says:
Well Keskus Mall is living in a landfill somewhere. There is a Casino on that property because the City Council forced the Government to put it there so they could get rid of the money losing mall they took over on back taxes.
Please if you haven't been back to Thunder Bay in over 12.5 yrs (amount of time Casino has been there) don't comment on what you still think is best for Thunder Bay, you left and have no say in how fast this ship goes down.
10/12/2012 11:07:49 PM
fastball says:
Well, J.D...considering I work in the downtown north core, and have for 30 years - I can pretty much assure you that the big giant building on the corner of Court and Red River which used to be part of the Keskus Mall is still very much there. The casino is down the street on the south side of Park and Cumberland.
As for the rest of your posts - thanks for your input. After careful consideration, I'll put it with the rest of my recycling.
10/13/2012 8:42:19 AM
jd says:
Fastball, I guess when you called the Eaton's Store(which is now a gym, roller derby rink, art gallery, theater and call center)Keskus I thought you hadn't been to the downtown core but since you have worked in that area for 30 yrs I didn't think you would have had to ask what was in the building as the signs for these things are all on the doors. When Eatons closed its doors the attached Keskus Mall was doomed and was taken over by City on unpaid taxes and then sold to the OLGC to build a Casino.
10/13/2012 12:13:36 PM
bah says:
I don't have an issue parking and walking a few blocks. But I wouldn't want to at night in some of the shader parts of downtown PA and get jumped. I have had too many close calls with being mugged and harrassed there, just from going to a bar. Don't wanna be in that situation again.
10/12/2012 4:41:47 PM
fastball says:
If there's hundreds of people going to and fro from that area on a regular basis, it's going to have some kind of police presence. The area is going to be well-lit. There's going to be lots of people around. All of those things go against whatever unsavory element that might be currently hanging around down there. Thugs don't like well-lit crowded areas with lots of security.
10/13/2012 10:20:08 AM
newnew says:
The reason much bigger cities have events centers downtown and they run smooth is most have parking blacks away, but have shuttles to the parking lot from the venue. Parking at the parkade on Red River is fine in the summer but who wants to walk up/down hill in -40 winter weather with the sidewalk full of ice.
10/12/2012 4:44:56 PM
Tbay99 says:
Can there be for once a headline about not building the multiplex at all!? A vast majority of thunder bay residents do NOT support this being built no matter what location it is in. Seems like some selective "journalism" going on here...
10/12/2012 4:53:00 PM
Leith Dunick says:
What's your proof that "the vast majority" don't want this built? We ran a poll earlier this week that suggested 55 per cent do think the project should go ahead and 4 per cent who aren't sure. Non-scientific, yes, but 545 people chimed in to vote. I've seen a Facebook group for Innova Park, but no group opposing the multiplex altogether. If there is one, and it has some traction, we'll certainly do a story on it.
10/12/2012 5:42:41 PM
tbayguy009 says:
How about you admit that your opinion is a little biased.

As far as public opinion goes, that would be determined in a formal democratic plebicite. PERIOD!

There is little doubt that corporate sponsored media has a contractually implied obligation to push the agenda of their corporate masters.

Tune on the radio, where there are numerous events in support of the flood victims of the infrastructure failure earlier this year.

Face it, any viewer or commentator on this website comes here voluntarily.

Notice that polls with corporate interests involded ALWAYS seem to have A LOT MORE votes.

How about admitting that there are many hired trolls to give artificial results. Hitting likes repeatedly.

In the cold war days we would call what is going on here, propoganda.

Non-scientific by your admission, but the media will continue to push this.

There may be many many many others who have better things to do than to 'worry' about this multiplex.

People should not have to fight for a NO!
10/13/2012 10:12:26 AM
sky high says:
People hired to hit the like button repeatedly? Hired trolls? LOL, it's the lazy trolls themselves who are hitting the like button all the time, and I can tell you that these people have zero integrity. I'm pretty sure that anyone with half a brain doesn't really care what others think about their comments, so why would anyone hit the like button repeatedly. Just remember, the editor DOES NOT HAVE TO POST YOUR COMMENTS at all, so think about that one for half an hour. Just think before you say something, please?
10/13/2012 1:10:02 PM
homelessteen says:
They are called social media monitors- they are real positions in places like city hall tbrhsc - confederation college and many many more places with big budgets and agendas.

There are a few who frequent this site.
10/13/2012 8:49:43 PM
NorthernGuy says:
Parking is a non issue - you can carpool, take city transit, walk, etc. That and its already been suggested that more parking will be built close to the waterfornt.

Look at case studies thoughout the country. Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa are all great examples. The only city of those that decided to locate its major event centre away from the downtown core is Ottawa, and low and behold they're the only NHL team in Canada that has trouble filling the arena. Location means everything. There must be other things for people to do in close proximity of the arena before and after the game.

You cannot build an event centre where the only option is to go to the event, then get back in your car and drive home. It does nothing for the economy at all. It also hurts beer sales. Knowing you have to drive home will stop you from having a drink or two, which again hurts local business including the centre itself.

Build downtown or don't build it all.
10/12/2012 5:00:02 PM
keiths31 says:
Maybe use examples of cities that aren't 10X the population as ours as an example.
10/13/2012 9:22:50 AM
Tiredofit says:
So your encouraging that we should all ignore the law, stay have a few drinks and then climb into our vehicle and attempt fate and drive home..... Nice

And why not come us to large metropolitan areas like Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary etc. we have so much in common with them....shhhessh

Let us know when your on the road so we can avoid you please
10/13/2012 5:42:31 PM
Tom Sanderson says:
There ya go again tbnewswatch. You start out with 'One north core business owner doesn’t see an issue with parking' and they you stick the long gone, no longer exists 'in downtown Port Arthur'.
You people are a good part of the reason why nothing changes around here. Get with the times, it's North core and South core all the way.
10/12/2012 5:02:50 PM
jimmyboy says:
reply to: "tomthepro"...build a SUBWAY...with at least 8 stops...what time zone are you working out of.??? Please tell me you are joking.!!!

Where pray tell would the money come from for this wild notion.???

Nice to see that Mr. Commuzzi...believes there will be no problem with parking...I guess in his mind all is kosher...Ummmmm by the way the city still has not got the south core parking needs all straight in their minds when it comes to the new courthouse...I got that directly from James Cody yesterday as a matter of fact....what on GOD's earth would lead anyone to begin to believe that the north core parking requirements have all be calculated correctly...and that all is good to go.????
Tbnewswatch.com

10/12/2012 5:08:24 PM
humnchuck says:
It's called sarcasm, Jimmy.
10/12/2012 7:30:49 PM
canadaboy2000 says:
This article says all of the parking spaces that exist downtown PA are within a 10 -12 minute walk of where the event center would be. Whens the last time, you took 12 minute walks ( BOTH ways ) in the middle of winter, dressed up for a night on the town?

Also, there's a big difference between having 25,000 people over 3 days for all day long events- where they may only be a few thousand max at any given time, and 5,700 people for one event at the same time.

It seems like all the proponents of the downtown PA location either have a business right next to it, or dont drive. The vast majority of us, dont have a business there and will be driving and parking, and now walking in the dead of winter.
Or maybe we will choose not to go, if thats where its going to be...

Innova has knowhere but up to go from ground breaking. Downtown PA, you start off with several problems that need solving.
We finally move away from FWG's and its parking problem, to an even worse situation.
10/12/2012 5:21:10 PM
localdog says:
Finally, someone that has a head on their shoulders. Good comment!
10/12/2012 9:41:48 PM
SomeGuy says:
Why not work with Thunder Bay Transit to develop a park and ride strategy also. Park at Intercity, Canada Games Complex, Metro on River street and take Transit to the event site, all you would need is your ticket. They have done this in the past with events like Bluesfest.

Many many other major cities do this and it works very well.
10/12/2012 5:33:52 PM
fastball says:
Take a bus...in this town??
Surely you jest.
10/12/2012 5:48:24 PM
SomeGuy says:
Yes it would be a shame to interact with the lesser folk who use public transit.
10/13/2012 9:41:24 AM
collie says:
You seen the price of catching the bus now a days??? think gas is expensive lol try putting a family of 4 on the bus! I would rather drive thank you
10/15/2012 6:18:15 PM
sam says:
walk, its good for you, if you cant walk get dropped off
10/12/2012 5:48:02 PM
Lake Superior citizen says:
First of all, let me say I am a South Ward resident in favour of this facility in the North Ward location.
I agree that this city has a mindset of parking outside the door and won't attend events if they can't do so. Obviously many of the people who are against this facility in this location have never attended events outside of this city as it would have been necessary for them to either take public transportation or park and walk a distance. If they had travelled to a city other than Duluth they would know this is the norm. Thunder Bay needs to be more forward thinking and get away from the "small-town" way of thinking or it will never account to more than a lunch stop on the Trans Canada highway. I understand that infrastructure is important but unless we make this city a destination it will never grow.
10/12/2012 6:00:45 PM
ResidentJ says:
Same situation as you. Live in FW but whole-heartedly endorse a facility in Port Arthur.

These arguments about finding parking and walking in the cold baffle me. I understand them to a degree, but don't understand why they're given so much significance. We live in a cold climate. Wear boots, thick jackets, and toques. Those that are complaining about having to walk to the centre in a blizzard. Get real! Most people stay home in blizzards. I'm not so certain that a weather event that occurs a few times a season is a sound reason for choosing where to place a major facility like this.
10/15/2012 4:38:22 PM
hardrawkin says:
Works just fine in other cities, Kingston for example. Attracts tourists and fills the restaurants before and after events.
Some of the PA restaurants may have to actually be open though if they want to cash in.
Never been past Roosters yet and seen it open?
10/12/2012 6:00:55 PM
sky high says:
Well my north side friends, that seals the deal. 4 million dollars less for parking in the north side...there were 25000 people downtown for rib fest and no one was griping about parking. What will the Innova people say next? "Deres too many derelicts downtown, don't build it dere...." Pfffft, if you don't like the location then STAY HOME AND QUIT WHINING
10/12/2012 6:11:01 PM
Common cents says:
Your comparing a annual (ONCE A YEAR EVENT) with 40ish home games?

IN THE SUMMER

SERIOUSLY??????
10/13/2012 1:14:30 PM
T.O.Guy says:
Ive never heard so much complaining about "where to park" or " traffic jams " after an event.Have you people ever attended an event in southern Ontario ? Do you expect to park 100 feet away ? You dont know what traffic is , we have it good hear in Thunder Bay !! Go live in Toronto for a week then you will appreciate it here. My guess is that you are either lazy or just against the Multi-plex being built!!!!!
10/12/2012 6:11:36 PM
brooky says:
Actually, I have lived in Toronto and the subway, buses, or trolleys will drop you off and pick you up efficiently right at the front door of any major event. In fact, in the year or so so I lived in downtown TO, I never found it an advantage to own a vehicle. Why would you drive to the ACC, Rogers center, or anywhere on Yonge Street? I don't get your point here.
10/12/2012 11:01:51 PM
Tbaylifer says:
The purpose for building a multiplex is for the entertainment of the residents of the city and surrounding area. It is not for stimulating any business. Hire people to get you more customers.
10/12/2012 6:17:41 PM
Tiredofit says:
People are inherently lazy, in the dead of winter when it's -20 people will not walk 10-12 minutes, it's a reality. I really don't understand how we can afford this, if the Feds and the Province don't cough up the funds then what? We going to tax the hell out of the citizens, have another temporary tax hike like we did with the hospital? I think the area that benefits the most, the downtown PA Business association should accept a 10-20% tax increase. Why should other areas have to accept an increase? Don't spew that oh we all benefit from it, doesn't hold water with most.
This will be a money loosing venture just like the Community Auditorium, who's going to cover the additional losses there? Can't say there won't be. I'll tell you who, you and I the tax payers.
10/12/2012 6:20:13 PM
tsb says:
"in the dead of winter when it's -20 people will not walk 10-12 minutes, it's a reality."

Dude, the walk from the edge of the Walmart parking lot to the store entrance is about a 5 minute walk, and that place is packed in late December! People WILL walk that far, even if it is cold.
10/12/2012 7:26:49 PM
rootbear says:
the very 2 reasons I don't go to Walmart anymore!
10/13/2012 10:47:30 AM
tiredofit says:
TSB, while I don't personally shop at Walmart, I do know that when I run to the mall, I don't dress up for the event like I do when I go to say the auditorium. I'm not going to sit at an event with my big ass snow boots on, and I doubt a coat check system would be helpful, especially if they get 5000+ people out.

I work in the area and I can tell you one thing, after dark I am not comfortable walking in downtown PA, especially from the parkade on Court down to the area in question. Unless the cops are out in full force keeping track and clearing out the usual riff raff, sorry,a lot of folks will not take the chance in my eyes.

In the summer time I don't think it will be an issue, it's usually light until 10/11pm and its warm.

Sorry, but comparing Walmart parking lot is like comparing apples to corn flakes.
10/13/2012 2:15:24 PM
peas08 says:
Why would it cost 5 bucks to park at Innova Park? Why isn't it 2 dollars? Who came up with the numbers? I would rather pay to park my car in the same area code as the event. Time for a plebesite. Downtown is a dumb idea. The casino said they wanted to leave so why dont these two things get built in Innova park. Its a start.
10/12/2012 6:47:42 PM
pearlman says:
I went to see a concert at the Target Centre in Minneapolis a couple of months ago. I ended up parking in some Event Parking lot about 15 blocks away... And people hear cry about walking 4?
10/12/2012 7:47:11 PM
localdog says:
Walking that distance mid-summer is one thing, walking it in your nice "night out" clothing when its -30 with a strong wind off the lake is another. You going to wear sorels and your parka to a rock concert?
10/13/2012 12:22:53 AM
wtfo says:
Have a look at google maps and see where a 800m 10-12 minute walk is from. Port Arthur clinic, Maltese, Bay and Water, I serously doubt it. We should demand a plebiscite.
10/12/2012 7:47:44 PM
chezhank says:
We keep hearing that the city has most of it's share of the money in the Renew Fund for this multiplex.

Backtrack:

Commisso said.
"The key to this project really is the extent to which the project can be built or constructed without debt or minimizing debt."

Mayor Keith Hobbs agreed.

"We’re not going into debt to do this I’ll tell you right now," Hobbs said.



About $15 million in that Renew fund came from Thunder Bay Telephone as a special dividend...

There is about $15 million debt that is being carried by Thunder Bay Telephone.

The city shows that debt on it's books.

Is this what they call white collar crime?

What you boys talking about....with no debt????
10/12/2012 8:01:36 PM
wtfo says:
Here is the Mayor's comment from June 18th refering to the flooding “We’re going to put everything on the backburner, the events centre, whatever it takes. We need to fix this problem first. We need to look at our infrastructure and we need to be prepared because weather patterns are changing.”
Now he says “We need to move this city forward and this isn’t a slam on previous councils, but I think Thunder Bay was stagnant for a lot of years. Now we’re seeing growth. We’re seeing a lot of growth in this city. This event city will be a huge piece of the puzzle.”
At $1.4 million in subsidies each year give your head a shake Mayor!
10/12/2012 8:04:51 PM
tbayguy009 says:
You should also mention the abandoment of taxrate restraint and crime rates.

The TBRH debenture is paid for. But that tax remains.

For many years in a row now, McCleans has had TBAY in the top crime cities per capita in their yearly statistics.

The mayor is getting pushed into this, from within City Hall, not from outside the building by the general population (a key point here). Special interests groups are just turning up the heat.
10/13/2012 10:23:29 AM
CM Punk says:
I got no problem walking because I have done it in other cities like Toronto and Minneapolis for major sporting events and concerts.
Even now when I go to the store I park at the farthest point of the parking lot because people have no respect for other peoples property.
I am not one of those who sits and does nothing and stuff their face with junk food. Pin that on someone else.
I am the WWE champion with the 10th longest reign in history.
10/12/2012 8:14:42 PM
spooner19 says:
Some of you people need to get out of the city limits once in a while and take a little trip, go see a sporting event or concert in a big city. I have been to football games with 60,000 people even if there is parking close by you still have to walk a long distance, guess what theres traffic once you go to leave the event lots of it. Big deal, this happens everywhere, if you don't want to be stuck in traffic for a whole few minutes stop at a bar get a drink or bite to eat and let it clear up a little, enjoy the night rather than crying about how far away you had to park or had to sit in traffic for 15 minutes. Maybe if people were not so lazy we wouldent have so many overweight people. A few thousand paople at a event is not going to cause as many problems as you think. What is with this city you go to Wal Mart and you see people who have nothing wrong with them using the Handicap parking spots or the ones that are for mothers with children. Get off uor butts an walk!
10/12/2012 8:31:13 PM
Mazda323 says:
Since the railway tracks are right there anyway, would it be possible to have a train that runs from FW to PA? Like a GO train to a concert. I think it's a cool idea and would solve the parking issue but I'm not sure if we are able to utilize the tracks or not?
10/12/2012 8:33:25 PM
nvjgu says:
Next you will here they have formed a fund raising committee for the cause.
10/12/2012 8:43:10 PM
bman says:
ive been to games in winnipeg, edmondton and calgary, in all three places we walked anywhere from 5 to 10 blocks to and from the game to where we parked. its all part of going to the game. buck up and put on a warm jacket and a pair of pants. you live in canada for crying out loud.why is everyone so worried about the cold?
10/12/2012 9:50:27 PM
sc says:
I don't think that the businesses in the north core will benefit nearly as much as they think. After a hockey game or other family oriented show...I don't see parents taking their children out to any restaurants late in the evenings. A lot of other people are just going to want to get the heck out of the congestion and go somewhere else.
10/12/2012 9:50:43 PM
collie says:
AGAIN!!!
Trying to convince otherwise hmmm!!!
During the daytime work hours plus with other things going on IE summer in park ect.. blues festival OR any other possible reason IF you build the Multiplex (HOPEFULLY main purpose will be CONVENTION CENTRE) this all happens during the DAY and Evening SO WILL require a LARGE Parking AREA way more than 200!! Who ever is stating 200 is OK HAS NO idea REALLY catch the BUS foolish considering getting rid of terminal anyways but catching the bus with kids is crazy. Take a look at the entire area around Thunder Bay and if it is a POPULAR event than People will be coming in from all the towns around and hey if do this right will be coming up from US to attend IE Concerts Conventions and such. Mind you if all care about is hockey than I guess only need parking for 100. WAKE UP quit B@# us!!
10/12/2012 10:44:33 PM
collie says:
ANOTHER point IF people are going to have to FORK over an arm and a leg to go to an event cuz like the auditorium NOT ENOUGH seating so charge top dollar to make money which lessens the amount of people who attend. HIGHER price tickets fewer people LOWER price tickets MORE people will attend. BACK to point NO ONE WILL WANT TO PAY FOR PARKING and all the places I have travelled and seen have Parking lots for people at NO charge ONLY greed thinks without parking. I have been to Italian Festival and there is NO parking, I attended Rib fest and it WAS crazy for traffic especially since lost all casino parking so I dont know what some people are talking about, FINALLY during Movie night at the Marina which BZ to that (AWESOME IDEA) parking was crazy for that so dont try and say 200 parking spots will do!! Maybe on a SUNDAY when something is going on in FW or Intercity and nada in PA. why is there no Common Dog anymore????
10/12/2012 11:12:38 PM
humnchuck says:
Collie, based on the number of exclamation marks, I'm going to suggest a switch to decaf.
10/13/2012 8:46:29 AM
get_the_chip_off_your_shoulder says:
WOW many of the people in this city just keep sounding more and more pathetic as to their lazy attitudes. There is plenty of parking but it seems that too many people have fog on the mind and have this fantasy about the world having every single parking space needed for a facility being within 30 feet of the doors. This is just plain lack of getting off their butts and walking. I agree with others about how lazy people are who park in handicap spaces when they are fully abled or drive around for 10min at the mall or walmart etc to find a spot as close to the doors as possible. I'm a 260 pound guy and I walk everywhere and I always nag my friends to park far from a store so we get a bit of fitness out of it. Today I walked from the college to the home depot only because instead of waiting 30 minutes to tranfer buses it was simpler to walk the rest of the way. IF a fat man can do this why in heck are we seeing so many big whiners hoarding this news item? Get off your behinds and WALK!
10/13/2012 12:12:27 AM
eastender says:
Aren't you wonderfull!!
10/13/2012 12:49:30 PM
nvjgu says:
I guess they don't think the world is ending dec 21
10/13/2012 7:42:01 AM
truthseeker says:
according to the people who are in favor of a multiplex one of the reasons they state a hockey team will be successful is because the nhl pays most of the players salaries and thunder bays location is not an issue.

Since 2003- 16 franchises have relocated-
2003-hamilton to toronto,st.johns to omaha
2004- toronto to edmonton
2005-st.johns to toronto,worchester to peoria,cincinatti to rockford,utah to lake erie
2006-cleveland to worchester
2007-omaha to quad city
2009-philly to adirondack,quad city to abbotsford,iowa to texas
2010- albany to charlotte,edmonton to oklahoma,lowell to albany
2011-manitoba to st.johns

If thats the case why have 16 ahl franchises moved since 2003 if the nhl is picking up the players salaries?look at the current ahl map of teams- thunder bay is basically on an island,with all the other teams bunched up on the east coast and 5 teams in the midwest(3 in illinois ,1 in michigan, 1 in wisconsin ). Geographical location will lead to its demise.
10/13/2012 8:16:30 AM
BigRed says:
SO let me try and understand this...
There were many people complaining about the development of the waterfront by saying no one will go there (which they were wrong about). I saw a lot of people enjoying themselves and the facilities over the summer and past winter. Now you want the city to build a facility that takes people away from the new waterfront?! And why would anyone be opposed of the city tearing down the shoreline?
I don't see the point in spending money on parking lots when we have many that can be used. I live in the south end, and I would actually prefer to park somewhere like Intercity or the Auditorium, hop on a shuttle bus and go to an event. The idea of a parking lot full of 2,000 vehicles trying to all get out at the same time is silly. (I have experienced this parking lot madness at Scotiabank Place in Ottawa and it is a huge waste of time.)
And as many other people of said: get off your butts and walk... you would have to walk across a giant parking lot anyways.
10/13/2012 8:23:39 AM
wlc says:
Why does everyone assume that the reason most people are not in favour of the downtown north site is because we're lazy? I am thinking about accessibility for all. I have an elderly parent that is disabled because of a stroke. Accessible parking in this city is already a nightmare at times. Being able to attend an event without the added stress of finding a suitable parking spot escpecially in the dead of winter is only one reason I favour the other site.
10/13/2012 9:01:51 AM
fastball says:
"...Added stress of finding a parking spot"
Well by all means, let's cancel the whole thing then. Finding a parking spot is STRESS-inducing? Holy cow, people...has ANYONE ever been out of town? Gone to the Big City and seen how the rest of the real world works?
Here's something radical - drop off your elderly parent at the door and have them wait for you for a few minutes til you find a spot. Unless, of course, the stress of doing so has not totally paralyzed you.
10/13/2012 10:14:29 AM
keiths31 says:
We have a current building that is located downtown. It has parking issues. I would say there are probably just as many available parking spots by the Gardens as their is where the new centre is proposed to go. When I go the events at the Gardens I don't see busloads of people using transit getting off. I don't see anyone using the nearby parkade. I also don't see the bars and restaurants that are open over flowing with customers before or after games. But putting it next to the water is going to suddenly change the mindset of the citizens of Thunder Bay?
I think not...
10/13/2012 9:27:36 AM
GPP says:
Will Thunder Bay have enough quality hotel rooms to support a large venue convention? If someone has reliable information regarding accomodations for the recent medical convention, I'd like to hear it.
10/13/2012 9:38:17 AM
fastball says:
Well, it truly saddens me that we have to listen ONCE AGAIN to the wails and cries of the typical Thunder Bay chorus whenever something new is proposed.
I've seen the whining about having to walk a few blocks in -30C conditions. My god - it's cold here for 3 months of the year, maybe. What about the other 3/4's of the year? Contrary to popular belief, walking a couple of blocks in winter is actually possible, and (keep this quiet) possibly even good for you. My God, the streets of northern cities aren't littered with the frozen corpses of people who had to walk 5 minutes blocks to get to a function.
Here's a novel concept - drop off your elderly or disabled people at the door, and then go find a spot and come back. Again, contrary to local custom and belief, kids actually enjoy walking with their moms and dads.
10/13/2012 10:06:06 AM
rootbear says:
Umm...it's cold now and we've got 7 more months to go. Don't forget to factor in the windchill, something we get daily.
10/13/2012 10:59:10 AM
Curious says:
I would think this is going to be stuffing too many buildings in one small area. I just don't think folks are going to be walking in the downtown area in the dark after a game knowing what goes on down there. Drugs, prostitutes etc. They are going to have to do a lot of cleaning up first if they want this to work. Personally, I won't walk din that area ever again, i learned my lesson once and that was enough for me.
10/13/2012 10:31:29 AM
dwb says:
Here we go. Leith Dunnick and the biased media promoting anything city council does even though it is obvious parking is a problem and the consultants were paid to give council the result it wanted.
10/13/2012 10:58:11 AM
mxdad says:
Thunder Bay is not Toronto.We have the space at Innova park.Why do we need to cram this building downtown.There is enough there with the marina and the future condos and such.Innova park has the road ways to get in and out in a timely manner.There is room for future expansion there.

I heard on the radio that when people walk by they could see what the downtown has to offer.Oh yes so much.Stores that will be closed and nobody is going to window shop at -40.There is already too much happening downtown as it is.It is an eyesore with new buildings and old buildings that have now flow or reason.
Do the math.You have an event that lasts for lets say 2hours and 5000 people going the traffic to get there and to leave all at one time will be crazy.It is not a full day or several day event it is a compressed event.If its main use ends up being hockey that is a winter sport.It is cold out and walking on icy sidewalks in a part of town that is less than safe.Really.Where do u stay unbuilt hotels
10/13/2012 11:07:38 AM
SomeGuy says:
The downtown location has the road ways in-place.

There is Water Street/Fort William Road/Cumberland, Memorial/Algoma, Red River, River street. There is plenty of major roadways to handle the traffic from people leaving the event, so the Downtown location also has the road ways.
10/13/2012 1:08:00 PM
Leith Dunick says:
Just how are we biased? Our readers wanted answers to the parking problem they say exists, and we did a story outlining why city officials say there isn't a parking problem.

And then we allowed dozens of you to publicly voice your opinions and have your say on the most-read local news website in Thunder Bay, in a comment section that is pored over by city officials, councillors and the mayor on a daily, if not hourly, basis.

I actually don't think the issue is there is not enough parking, it's that there isn't enough free parking in this plan. Parking won't be free at Innova Park either, paid parking will be part of the business plan.

We intend to go after the cost comparisons with other cities next week, because it does seem a bit expensive compared to what Sault Ste. Marie and other communities have built.

DWB, you say bias, but did you really mean the answers didn't match your own preconceived notions of how it should play out?
10/13/2012 11:21:02 AM
eastender says:
Of course you are biased. It seems the biggest reason for this multiplex to go down town PA is to benefit the businesses in that area. However, this Arena is going to be a burden on the taxpayers of this town. Why should the taxpayer subsidize private business, because that is exactly what this whole scheme amounts to. I would love to see a multiplex in Thunder Bay, However, with the provincial deficit, and the economy still in the dumps, is it really possible to expect the gov't to pony up the majority of funds needed to build this arena. This is strictly a case of "I want it therefore I should have it" The debate regarding Innova or Marina is just smoke and mirrors hiding the fact that the great unwashed will be paying for this boondoggle for a long time to come.
10/13/2012 1:20:19 PM
tbayguy009 says:
You media website also has the power of sensorship here.

How about the media promote this as a plebicite question?

This is just a forum where perdetermined conclusions are posted.

Again, why does to need to be such a fight to have a NOT AT ALL option.

Your polls are just a phoney numbers game. Even poll stats before an election are almost always wrong these days. Fixing elections?

Consultants are paid to prove what they are hired for.

What Thunder Bay really needs, is a corruption inquiry like Quebec is going through right now. While McGuinty plans dumb, TBay even had the finger pointed at it.

The street name, by the good citzens of the area, call the local paper the comical urinal. Did you know that?

Too many looking from the inside out, and not from outside their establishment loop. Are the reporters just reading the notes handed to them?

Again I come here voluntarily. Maybe all people opposing this should just leave this site ... and the city. According to the spoiled.
10/13/2012 2:41:38 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
Corrupt? YES!
10/15/2012 8:57:42 AM
p.o.ed taxpayer says:
The comments that this simply is about parking are way off base...it is simple economics and common sense. Proponents of this downtown location in many cases have a vested interest in the location and that includes entities like the Chronicle Journal. It is apparent that every attempt is being made to inflate the costs to develop the Innova location and deflate by omission much of the true costs for the downtown site. The argument that Innova ia in the middle of nowhere is bogus...any location in this city can normally be reached within 20 minutes. Innova is the most central location. This matter needs to be presented to the public with the TRUE downstream costs then if/when it is decided to proceed the location should be decided. Some councillors believe that the public aren't intelligent enough to make a decision like this; however I strongly disagree...just keep the information public and complete and get out of the in-camera hideout.
10/13/2012 11:46:18 AM
dwb says:
Unlike yourself I had no pre-conceived notions. I have no problem paying for parking.
10/13/2012 12:05:08 PM
ring of fire dude says:
Leave the decision on where WE want it built and if WE can afford it until election time . At election time the Mayor and each member of council should publicly state where their preferred site is . Either that or let us decide where and if WE want it built , put it to a plebiscite !!
10/13/2012 12:46:19 PM
NorthernGuy says:
I said it once and I will said it again. Just look at case studies throughout the country. Victoria, Kingston, Stratford all built dowwntown and they all work. ut got

Building something in the middle of nowhere with nothing else do to but go to the event, then go back home is extremely stupid.

Build it downtown, or don't build it at all.
10/13/2012 12:50:56 PM
Common cents says:
Click here my friends and zoom,no parking here?



Does this sound familiar

10/13/2012 6:36:44 PM
woofwoof says:
Personally I could care less about hockey, but I do see this as a step forward for the city. So you have to walk a few blocks, I am sure it is safe with hundreds of people leaving at the same time. Dress warm we do live in the North.As for Newswatch being bias..they don't make the news they only report it.Some of you would'nt know a good thing of it smacked you in the face. Thunder Bay needs change and a face lift if you want a future for this city.
10/13/2012 1:24:33 PM
p.o.ed taxpayer says:
Kingston is one of the worst examples to use. They are hemhoraging money. 50-60 million dollar arena and the hockey team gained a few hundred people per game (not a great success story). Kingston already had a vibrant downtown core. Just like T.Bay the downtown location was pushed by the business community for their own benefit. The Regional population base is much greater than T.Bay. We are being hoodwinked by politicians and consultants. They have no empirical evidence that the downtown location is better...simply anecdotal..Does anyone trust this administration and council to give us the honest picture? Can we trust them to negotiate a deal with a hockey team that won't include us picking up the tab, from things like loan guarantees or mgmt. fees or attendance and loss guarantees? If this is such a great location for an OHL or AHL hockey team then the prospective buyers should shoulder any and all risks...
10/13/2012 2:08:06 PM
get_the_chip_off_your_shoulder says:
Directed at: p.o.ed taxpayer and others who i've heard speaking or read on these comments on how it will cost money to tear down the shoreline and beer store facilities.


Where do you people even come up with these concepts that were never once said to be part of this whole plan for the water street location? There is the transformer station and the one remaining 2story building on that block which will need demolition and they will eliminate the street between the prince arthur and the site to extend the building into that location as well as part of the parking lot that extends toward the pagoda will be part of the facility as well. It really bothers me that people hear things from friends or overhears stuff at a coffee shop then go around spreading it like it was fact on some administration document. The shoreline and beer store facility and that street have nothing to do with the plans and so stop spreading this around town. Grrrrrrr!!
10/13/2012 4:11:26 PM
Chaos says:
Leith, justifying your stories or its content is a bad idea for a journalist. Instead your time should be spent to ask tougher questions. Thorughout this websites existence your crew seems to accept the interview subject answers with no tough question - such as willl you, your family or your business benefit finacially from this development - could you not do some researh or ask which councillors have property or a vested interested in downtown pa? Maybe watch some old baryy third interviews for "how to".

10/13/2012 5:13:53 PM
Leith Dunick says:
Chaos, there's no conspiracy here. The report was produced independently of council and its authors weren't directed to find a way to choose the north core come hell or high water.

Until council votes on the location, and councillors declare or don't declare a conflict, I think you're jumping the gun here. When the time comes, we'll ask the questions, I assure you.

My suggestion to those who are opposed to the project or the location, or both, is to ensure you're at the open house at the Auditorium on Nov. 21 and/or make a deputation on Nov. 26 at council and voice your opinion.

The Innova Park supporters formed an advocacy group and got plenty of press. Form an anti-multiplex group, get some traction and you'll be part of plenty of stories as this process moves forward. We struggled to find people willing to go on record from the Innova Park group. And trust me, we tried.

10/14/2012 9:19:08 AM
Yesthunderbay says:
The full report is on the City's website. I suggest that if you haven't already, do your homework before making comments. Many of the things being discussed here are clearly laid out in the report. Inform yourselves no matter what your views are on this proposed facility so that you can make educated comments. www.thunderbay.ca/event centre
10/13/2012 5:15:39 PM
jimmyboy says:
reply to Leith.....how much stock can one put in a consultants word when they say parking will not be a problem...take a hard look at the south core parking studies done in conjunction with the new courthouse...they still do not have that scenario down to a science...I got that straight from James Cody himself...on Thursday of this week....so honestly can you not see why I personally do not have all that much faith at days end.

Plus I would like to add.....this venue provided by TBNewswatch/Dougall Media is top notch....the CJ or NetNewsLedger cannot hold a candle to the news content...plus the comment board that your website offers....keep up with the great job that I believe you and your staff are doing.
10/13/2012 8:16:39 PM
peas08 says:
Not everyone who has mobility issues has access to handicap permits. Lets send our seniors for a 10-12 minute walk in icy conditions to go see events or to participate in conventions. Has it occurred to any of these folks that perhaps in one night there may be more than one event happening. What happens if Bluesfest is on at the same time as a concert or ribfest or what have you.
10/13/2012 8:28:28 PM
Tom Sanderson says:
Progress is all it is. You all have forgotten about the Marina since it's not in the news. If they stop posting things about the proposed event centre and just built it there would be no whining. It's not like any of you are going to go to a council meeting and voice your opinion. Your complaining isn't going any further than this website seeing there are only about 50 out of 120,000 people commenting. It's going to be built in the North core entertainment district. There will be no plebiscite. Those that don't know their way around the North core should get a gps or use Google maps and plan out their route in advance.
10/13/2012 8:51:33 PM
get_the_chip_off_your_shoulder says:
This whole parking fiasco is nothing we should be using as a reason to build this. There is sufficient spaces to park already and the downtown parkade was designed to add additional floors on it as I remember clearly when they were building it, they did mention it. That is why the elevator shaft and stairway towers are built to go higher up. And parking can be designed and built into other downtown areas in the future should parking really become a huge issue and when money is less strapped so it can be done later when money is more readily available for such things especially if the downtown areas get more density and a developper actually builds a parking facility as a business. Mr. Comuzzi i think you should also focus more on fixing your mini parking lot on st paul street as it is now the only eyesore there and the crumbling badbly designed elevated lot is taking away from the design and clean look of the new street design. Please fix your lot sir. We would appreciate it.
10/13/2012 9:59:54 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
Who paid TB NEWS to start pumping this stupid HOCKEY RINK again? It's dead until you can show me THE MONEY. Guess what? There is NONE TO BLOW for goofy fun and games anymore. TBay City Council pretends it's 1985. Maybe the many local Richie Richs' can donate the cash. But, haw, NOT ONE has offered to donate a single, solitary nickel. They just want the fat construction contracts and INEVITABLE cost overruns, right?
LET THE FUNDRAISING BEGIN, and I don't mean raping the voiceless taxpayers' wallets. Good luck, you'll need it.
10/13/2012 10:08:38 PM
Pandora says:
We need a plebiscite, properly worded plebiscite, plan and simple.

I can not believe we can be thinking of spending $107-200 Million (think hospital, waterfront overruns) without a plebiscite.
But will we get one?
10/13/2012 10:41:39 PM
canadaboy2000 says:
The only people I can actually see the downtown location benefiting, are perhaps the bar hoppers and the hotel operators in the immediate area.

On any event night, it may hurt the local restaurants- and here's how.
When you have 3,000 cars parked in the area for the entire evening taking up every single vacant spot for blocks on end- the people who would normally be going out for dinner at The Prospector, or Kilroys, or wherever around there, will not be able to find a place to park. Every spot will be taken. Hense, many go eat somewhere else.
Has anyone even thought about that?

Yes, sorry to say- but there are consequences to the parking issue, aside from just the event goers.

And contrary to what some of the resident bar hoppers think, the VAST majority of us who will be going to events will not be hitting the local pubs before or after events. We drive to the show, then home.

Will SOMEONE who makes decisions for this city, finally make a smart choice for once???
10/14/2012 12:31:22 AM
canadaboy2000 says:
Also, nobody has mentioned how the few thousand parking spaces downtown that they keep talking about, will not all be empty come event night. There are restaurants, and bars, and other business' who's customers park there already.
Good luck, if you think your going to drive up on a Friday night at 7:00, to see a hockey game and all the way up Cumberland st and Red River, there will be the 2,000 parking spaces open- like they seem to suggest.
The smart person realises that those spaces will already be mostly taken, like they always are- and event goers are going to be forced to park even farther away than this. It wont be a 10- 12 minute walk, but rather a 15 - 20 minute walk when you factor in this obvious oversight.

Remember, there's a difference between parking spaces, and VACANT parking spaces.
How many vacant spaces will there be come event night?

I bet not one downtown PA advocate has had that thought come across their head.
10/14/2012 12:49:18 AM
fastball says:
Well, let's firstly assume that 2000 fans does not equal 2000 parking spots. I carry 2-4 people in my car when attending a concert or game.
I would hope that there would be a proposal for some kind of shuttle service from a couple of spots in town. Park at Intercity/Auditorium/LU, and grab take the shuttle bus to the facility. I'm not willing to put this project on the shelf, just because it gets cold for 3 months a year. The other 9 months should be just fine for a short walk. It takes no longer than 5 minutes to walk from the Parkade to Cumberland.
10/14/2012 10:35:49 AM
ring of fire dude says:
After a season of losing profits because their Patrons can't find parking , will the restaurants , bars and Casino offer Limo or Cab service so they can get their Customers in the door ? Highly doubt it . They will start calling for a parking structure to be built or ask that events be held during the day so their Customers have a place to park .
10/14/2012 10:56:45 AM
fastball says:
I cannot believe people are yakking about a plebiscite once again. With EVERY initiative in this town, the same old cry comes up again. The auditorium, the hospital, Magnus, the marina, the windfarm...the naysayers all demand a vote. I would suggest that a great majority of these naysayers have rarely, if ever, been to a hockey game...let alone a concert, a show, a circus, a curling bonspiel, figure skating or anything else that our antiquated Fort William Gardens hosted over the years. Why do places like Red Deer, Drumheller or Brandon get world championship events. Why have we NEVER had a Brier or major event here?? Why do performers like Elton John play in Kelowna or Saskatoon - and never here?
We've all acknowledged at one time or another that the Gardens needs to be replaced. There's no parking around the Gardens either. Anything would be better. There's a parkade just up the street, and many more little lots could be created in the area. Quit yer bitchin' and get on board.
10/14/2012 10:14:25 AM
truthseeker says:
Why does yourself and the so called thousands who support the building of a multiplex fear a plebiscite? This is a slam dunk easy victory for the yes side according to the media, hobbs and the multiplex backers.

The truth is you fear the great amount of voters who are taxpayers will come out on plebiscite day and burst this b.s. of a bubble that the media, hobbs and the tired old faces on council and administration are trying to shove down the taxpayers throats.

The embarrassing number of facebook followers, those which attended the public meetings who are in favor of the multiplex and the mayors lip service stating everybody he's spoken too wants a multiplex. That's all you have for support, very fragile support base. The yes side is lucky if they get 30% in favor and they know it!

The mayors m.o. is usually when he speaks, the opposite of what he says is the truth. If the mayor says everybody wants it, then you know most taxpayers don't want this built.
10/14/2012 1:45:46 PM
fastball says:
Well, I call BS on that one. I WANT an event center built. I want to watch some concerts in something other than a half-century old arena. I want to see world class events. I want to see the Thunderwolves play in a nice place. I want to see conventions and symposiums here. Why does Red Deer, Brandon, North Bay and places like that get shows and championship events? You don't think the Briar or Scotties or major Canadian hockey championship doesn't bring money into town? That's hundreds of hotels rooms. Hundreds of restaurant meals. Tons of shopping. Does the city want an extra 50 bucks or so on my taxes per year to build it? Fine, that's 5 bucks a month. Big deal.
What I don't want is a multiplex built on a business park, that needs millions of dollars in infrastructure to get traffic in and out. I don't want to waste acres and acres of land that could be used to build office buildings for jobs - just so people can park right beside a multiplex. Look at the big picture.
10/14/2012 9:27:28 PM
eastender says:
I WANT! I WANT! I WANT! Suzie has Barbie and Ken dolls, I want one too! Sorry honey, daddy just got laid off, and the mortgage is due, and we're all out of Kraft Dinner,. Maybe next year dear. Get over yourself Nancy.
10/15/2012 3:04:50 AM
fastball says:
Maybe I should rephrase. I don't WANT all these things...I EXPECT these things. I EXPECT a city of our size to be able to host some world-class events - and NOT be a chronic embarrassment when compared to other cities our size.
We are we an embarrassment?? Because we're small-minded, provincial, stuck-in-the-mud, backwater-stupid and above all, CHEAP. We can't understand that occasionally you have to spend some money in order to make money.
10/15/2012 11:21:29 AM
eastender says:
Fastball, there is a difference between being broke, and in debt, and being cheap. Reality is a cruel mistress. Those who heed her survive to build another day. Those who dont, declare bankruptcy.
10/15/2012 1:49:27 PM
daddyd2 says:
Ive worked downtown port Arthur for 15 years, it is a mass of confusing parking. There are many private lots, i pay for a space in one of them, only to find my spot taken many times by some unknown driver, and i dont blame the driver, most spots are not marked well to inform people that they are private. And with all due respect to Jim C.. his lots doe nothing to inform people that his spots are free on weekends or evenings.......why would anyone assume they are. The Multiplex will indeed need dedicated parking, anything else will lead to a nightmare downtown,..the parking as it is now is already dominated by Casino Dwellers, they fill there two lots and all the available spots on cumberland, park, and red river rd.. Anyone who spends enuf time downtown knows the hastle of parking.., its foolish to assume we dont need a dedicated parking facility for the multiplex..
10/14/2012 10:55:37 AM
fastball says:
As I am in the same situation as you, I do not totally disagree with you. However, just because a problem CURRENTLY exists, does not mean it will ALWAYS exist. Yes, there's a ton of little lots all over the place. But with a little planning, effort and advertising by the city and businesses - and a little common sense by citizens - perhaps some order could be created from disorder. Perhaps the city could look at some of the many old, vacant and boarded-up places in the area. They are ugly eyesores, and serve no purpose. I suggest studying the feasibility of seeing if there's a way to convert a few of those nearby places in parking lots. We might not be able to have the big giant lot that everyone seems to want right beside the place, but maybe we can have a lot of smaller lots. It might be not a totally horrible thing, as it will ease congestion in one central area. I've seen hundreds of Thunder Bay drivers try to get out of a big lot with only one exit...it ain't pretty.
10/14/2012 11:29:21 AM
p.o.ed taxpayer says:
I am not necessarily against a multiplex or new arena; however I do expect honesty from this council and an honest objective report from the consultants. All of these facilities lose money on a large scale each year. The consultants don't honestly report that and like to try and compare T.Bay to places like Oshawa (population base 608,000)Kingston with a population or draw base that far exceeds T.Bay. Kingston's debt and deficit is rising each year and it is based on poor parking and overly optimistic projections provided by the consultants. They do not show any evidence that any of these facilities that were placed downtown have shown a benefit that would exceed a different location. They use inflated numbers with respect to hockey and event attendance and fail to mention that rarley do any of these facilities come close to these numbers. T.Bay 106 million facility?Oshawa 50 million cost with pop over 600,000, Kingston 50m population..S.S.Marie 25 mil with comparable pop to T. Bay.
10/14/2012 11:25:15 AM
canadaboy2000 says:
Yes, 2000 fans does not mean 2000 parking spaces. However, we ALREADY have the FWG, which has well over that capacity.
I thought the whole point of this event center was to draw bigger and higher level events, with more people in attendance?

Secondly, there will NOT be even 1000 parking spaces near by, because restaurant goers and such will already be taking them up. A parking spot thats taken, does nothing for me when I'm looking down the streets for a place to park.

Listen to daddyd2- the guy works downtown, and he's right. It already is bad, without adding several thousands of people to the mix.

Look, when you have an immediate and huge issue to deal with, its a sure sign that its only going to get much worse when it moves forward. It ALWAYS does. It hasnt even gone forward yet, and already half the people hate its placement and say they wont go to many events if its there.

Who has more money to go to events? People with cars, or people who need to take the bus?
10/14/2012 12:56:41 PM
The Beaver..... says:
shaking my head.By given under use statistics of his parking lots during major events is Mr Commzzie
saying people will not be willing to walk any distance to the events..maybe it would have been smart not to make these comments.
10/14/2012 1:41:12 PM
Mazda323 says:
Maybe if y'all didn't show up at the last minute expecting rock star parking, there wouldn't be such an issue!
I'd like to point out, too, that Innova Park has sat empty for how long now? If private investors don't see any value in there, why should it be shoved down the tax payor's throats? If it's such a wonderful location, it would have filled up a long time ago.
10/14/2012 1:55:41 PM
dozerman says:
The fact remains...some people will walk and others will not. After getting my vehicle broken into twice while attending concerts and hockey games, I probably will never go. But that is just my opinion.
10/14/2012 2:13:23 PM
sprintfan says:
I put the challenge out to council and administration on CBC Radio,if there is no hidden agenda then why are they refusing to put it to a plebiscite? There is no more accurate market research than asking the people who are paying for it and you hope will be attending events there. The people will eventually have a say in its successs by either supporting or not supporting events there. I'd prefer people have the vote before more than $100 million gets spent,just makes sense to me. Those who say people in TB should get off their ass or are lazy,should just park in parkades,etc (whether true or not),must realize the reality that this is the marketplace you have and asking to support you. Smart business sense is to cater to the market,not dictate to the market! That is a recipe for failure. The suggestion that you just drop of people with special needs or get a ride there, can you imagine the congestion with even 20-50 cars were doing that would be? Putit to a vote like we were promised!
10/14/2012 2:14:01 PM
fastball says:
Why is every important decision from the council subject to a plebiscite? What's the point of a council, if every decision has to come to a citizens' vote? I voted for a guy whose judgement I trust..and whom I think has the city's best interests at heart.
I really hate when, historically, barely 35 percent of the eligible electorate actually votes in a municipal election - yet demands a vote in an issue that bothers them. It's like not showing up to play a game, but demanding to replay the game just because you didn't like the final score.
10/14/2012 8:01:28 PM
The Beaver..... says:
@Mazda its a matter of supply and demand.Simple is it not
10/14/2012 4:30:54 PM
Lucy says:
I am from T Bay, lived in other bigger cities and have recently moved back. Wondering about Innova park...which I assume will have more than a hockey rink...as mentioned above, will include soccer fields, baseball diamonds, etc. I think my issue is that there is so much attention on the downtown PA core, which IS coming along (except for a planned monstrosity condominium obstructing the beautiful view of the lake and the Sleeping Giant) but what about FW. Isn't Innova by the airport, JUST off of Arthur St.? Arthur St. has hotels AND restaurants, it just needs some cleaning up. Why shouldn't those businesses and the FW crowd benefit from having their own "downtown" ??
Other mistakes have been made, such as a hospital that is tooooo small (who didn't think that one out?), those ridiculous black "arm" things with lights at the Marina, and let's not forget Victoriaville mall...WORST MISTAKE EVER..cutting off Victoria Ave. TBay has so much potential-time for some new ppl in office.
10/14/2012 5:32:58 PM
fastball says:
Innova Park was created as a BUSINESS zone...for business and jobs for the future. There is only a finite amount of land there, and to take a great percentage of that land and just waste it by just turning it into a parking lot is stupid. That land is now useless for anything else. That place also only has ONE way in or out. You'd need to pump tens of millions of dollars into putting more entrances/exits off that place. It has no public transit access near it. A event centre in Innova would create NO spinoff businesses - because people would get in their cars and leave. At least downtown has the streets in place, it has public transit access, it has business all around, and it has a chance to revitalize the downtown area to an extent. Other than the parking "Issue" - namely,the lack of a football field-sized lot, like most people want) it has WAY more going for it than Innova. Other than parking, what's the big issue??
10/15/2012 8:00:35 AM
Wakka_wakka says:
Could care less whether it's downtown or innova park, just want to see it actually built! That being said, I do think it would be way better with way more seats than 5700. Either way, I'm just excited to see something like this come to Thunder Bay and to go see all the sports, concerts and events it will draw here.
10/14/2012 9:03:18 PM
eastender says:
Wakka Wakka, I just get excited to know that I can pay higher taxes so the you can get excited to go to the events centre. Oooh Oooh, AAAAHHHHH!!!
10/15/2012 3:17:08 AM
fastball says:
Let's not get our panties in a twist because of "higher taxes" just yet, ok? Let's see what the bill is first.
Seriously, I see people getting all bent out of shape for a crummy 50 bucks more on their tax bill. That's less than one carton of smokes that smokers always seem to be able to find money for. That a case of beer or so...I see lots of lineups in LCBO's, so don't tell me it such a hardship.
10/15/2012 10:17:01 AM
Chaos says:
WARNING TAXPAYERS:

Read about kingston arena and the great advice they got now city bleeding money for arean:

+Centre's+management+team+gets+contract+renewal,+council+scolding



Now abbotsord:

+unlikely+burn+Abbotsford/7319971/story.html

Whistling to the gallows.

10/14/2012 9:23:58 PM
mercy mercy me says:
i sure hope the anti-bullying legislation is passed before a multiplex site is chosen
10/15/2012 3:50:05 AM
localdog says:
I'm curious, what was the question asked of this study to determine the optimal location for a multiplex? Was it:

1) Of these two locations A (downtown) or B (Innova Park), which one is the least crappy?

or was it

2) Here's a map of our city with many possible build sites, determine where the best location would be?
10/15/2012 10:09:03 AM
fastball says:
Try reading the 125-odd page report on the city's website. I suggest EVERYONE slog through it and see how in-depth it is.
It just might answer some questions. But then again, why let something as irrelevant as facts enter into a discussion?
Biggest knock on Innova is that it was created as a business zone, that area is prone to flooding, and it's got lousy ingress/egress. It would cost tens of millions to connect it properly to the main arteries. There's no public transit to utilize there. It's also in the middle of the bush with nothing around it. It's nothing but bush and swamp - and it doesn't fall into the city's "vision" of a revitalized downtown entertainment district.
There are more options down in the downtown area. There are buildings that can purchased and the space used for parking (which seems to be the main knock).
10/15/2012 2:36:08 PM
localdog says:
That's why I was asking, I don't want to read a 100+ page report (I'm not that interested). But from your response it sounds like the focus of the study was to determine which of these two locations was the best choice?
10/15/2012 6:42:07 PM
SF2012 says:
WOOO cant wait for my car to be broken into in PA instead of FW. Was really hoping to actually have a parking lot...so glad the city is progressing. useless city council
10/15/2012 4:13:29 PM
farmgal says:
Nobody should expect free parking. I have been to other centres and paid for parking. I don't think that is the issue and walking isn't an issue for me either. My issue is finding a parking spot anywhere within reasonable walking distance. The majority of the parking spots are already taken up by employees and regular patrons of the established businesses so there won't be many left for the Complex patrons.
10/15/2012 4:46:53 PM
Pandora says:
Do you think Mr Commuzzi is going to let you park in his 75 parking spaces for FREE???

He will be asking a lot more than the $5 Mr Boychuk priced for Innova Park's parking, I would venture to bet.
10/18/2012 11:02:39 AM
Whodo says:
Mr Commuzzi will be charging $20 to park. It will cost $20 compared to $5 at Innova Park, Mr Boychuk said $5 to park at Innova, a fair and affordable price.
10/18/2012 5:42:28 PM
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