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2012-10-23 at NOON

Legal costs a question

By Jodi Lundmark, tbnewswatch.com
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THUNDER BAY -- While the chief of police reported no significant third-quarter variance for the force's operating budget, legal costs make the year-end budget hard to predict.

Thunder Bay Police Service Chief J.P. Levesque said at the end of the third quarter for 2012, the police service’s budget is well below one per cent negative variance.

“We’re relatively pleased at this point with the third quarter variance,” Levesque said at Tuesday morning’s police services board meeting at the Balmoral Street police station.

“We usually make a prediction at this point where we’re going to land at the end of the year,” he said. “We have a number of outstanding legal issues that we know are going to affect the variance.”

The chief said they’d like to be somewhere between one and 1.5 per cent by the end of the year, but that depends on a number of factors.

“The reality is one major occurrence can change that as well,” he added.

Board chairman Joe Virdiramo said they’ve had a tough year in legal costs and they don’t have control over the legal issues that may arise, but noted they are maintaining their own at the end of this quarter.

“We’re going to wait until the last quarter to see where the overtime and other issues are. I would presume we might be a little over. I look forward to taking a look at that and seeing what we can do in the future budgets,” Virdiramo said.

The police chief also gave the board an update on the service’s three-year business plan Tuesday. Levesque said they’ve spent this first year implementing new strategies to meet the plan’s four objectives of crime prevention, communication, engagement of the Aboriginal community and maintaining a respected workforce.

For crime prevention, Deputy Chief Andy Hay continues his role on the crime prevention council and the force was implemented initiatives like the Stop and Lock campaign, online reporting and prevention outreach.

“We continue to make strides with the Aboriginal community and despite some recent events, we feel that these relations are still good and we will continue down that road,” Levesque said.

The chief said he’s pleased with the progress of the business plan so far.

“There’s always more we can do but we will continue to work towards our goals of the business plan,” he said.

Virdiramo agreed the business plan is working well and said the board will be examining the plan in detail within the budget and will place resources where they feel are needed in order to achieve the four objectives.

“It’s always a good thing to have a plan, follow that plan, which would be a flexible plan and tinker it from time to time to meet the needs of the community,” said Virdiramo.
 

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Comments

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RicknB says:
"they don’t have control over the legal issues that may arise"

Maybe accountability?
Maybe holding the officers responsible for their actions?

How don't they have control?
10/23/2012 1:18:30 PM
Tom Sanderson says:
What part of "they don’t have control over the legal issues that may arise" don't you grasp.
It's as simple as someone filing a lawsuit against another individual or a firm. Those served notice have no control over the other party submitting a legal objection. You don't like something, you file a complaint, grievance or serve a subpoena and the other party "does’t have control over the legal issues that may arise". Very simple to understand if you take time to read and think about it for a minute.
I have noticed that there is very little reading and thinking amongst the commenters on this site.
10/23/2012 3:05:21 PM
TBDR says:
that variance could probably be controlled by not having officers on paid leave for a year or two at a time. If its a serious offense, fire them... if not, give them some sort of policing duties and stop wasting our tax dollars.
10/26/2012 2:33:40 PM
MonkeyRench says:
"they don’t have control over the legal issues that may arise"

What?!?

They are the cops man, what good are they if they have no control over legal issues?

Like, who is in charge then??
10/23/2012 2:23:49 PM
conker2012 says:
Does this chief know what the word budget means? You don't get to go over budget, you adjust to compensate for the funding shortfall. Cut unessessary services / don't approve any over time. Get his shit together and get back to budget. The police services board needs to get the mandate across that 1.5% over budget is 1.5% too much.

Levesque expects to be over budget, yet has no mentioned plans to get back to where he needs to be.

Then their is Joe V., he says lets see what happens in the Q4???? Really??? I'd love to be a contractor working on this guys house. Oh your kitchen isn't finished and I have spent all your money... well just keep paying me and we will see what happens. Money doesn't grow on trees, 500K over budget is not acceptable and needs to be fixed!
10/23/2012 2:34:51 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
Two-Tier Justice is expensive.
10/23/2012 3:37:21 PM
kirkage says:
if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Alot of chiefs here perhaps you should take an active role and go to a meeting, ride along or perhaps run for alderman with all your great ideas and see how well you fare. Whenever planning anything you should always think it may go over a few percentile.
10/23/2012 4:48:33 PM
damanisback says:
conker2012 said "POO" in his post, thats a bad word - TOM SANDERSON may get mad at you.
10/23/2012 5:16:07 PM
Tom Sanderson says:
Maybe he won't but he will tell you to mind your own business. If the editors wanted to run a decent news service they wouldn't allow stupid comments such as you made here. Your comment is inappropriate and should be removed as it has no bearing on the news item.
Further more if you had of read what I posted in my apology to moonpie you would have noticed that it was the editor who would be the one to get mad. Your a troll and something else that rhymes with troll that starts with an A.
10/23/2012 11:30:42 PM
northofnipigon says:
There has been a pattern in the past several years of decisions taken either at the Chief's level of authority or in the HR department that has certainly contributed to some of these seemingly out of control legal costs. Case in point, senior office with 20+ years of service and a clean record, involved in many community charities, makes a dumb comment that is totally unacceptable and the issue takes 2.5 years to resolve while the officer is on leave with pay? Hello? Even the arbitrator was surprised with the length and severity of this one. Come on, get with the times, deal with these issues in a timely way and get the politics out of there.
10/23/2012 5:38:43 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
Those free holidays with pay were an additional reward for those 20+ years of being carefully fed and watered. One system that works for them, the other one that's falling apart, crumbling, that's ours.
10/24/2012 9:27:43 AM
shakingmyhead says:
To me the most obvious question that is left unanswered is what is the variance up to the 3rd quarter and not just the 3rd quarter. Maybe that's not a number people would like. The story screams out for that number. Why don't you drop a dime, er, quarter Leith?

As for Virdiramo not having control over legal issues, just keep on letting the chief suspend cops with pay for suspect reasons and withdraw charges when its convenient. That sure sounds like saving money to me. I don't blame Hobbs for leaving one bit; 1 vs 4 aren't great odds. I think city council would have done much better by replacing Virdiramo instead!!!!!

10/23/2012 5:39:12 PM
wayne says:
"The chief said they’d like to be somewhere between one and 1.5 per cent by the end of the year"

1.5% = $510K over budget
10/23/2012 11:35:30 PM
jimmyboy says:
Oopsie..I must add in reply to poster "shakingmyhead"..cause that is exactly what I am doing in reading your post!

HOBBS bailed plain and simple really..I guess he could not see that when initially taking a place on the Police Services Board..which by the way is an expectation of the voters and city council as a whole..all previous mayors have sat on this board..one would like to think that HOBBS could have put 2 and 2 together way back when....NOPE didn't happen....he must not have had his calculator with him that day...he should have been wise enough to know that his so called issues and conflicts that have now magically surfaced were ever present from the get go.!!!

Yet he soldiered on like a good trooper...only to be removed with more than just cause...as was earlier reported...and he was told to sit in the corner basically...by the investigating body of the day...talk about hey look at me and the mess I'm going to be making...he surely excelled in that department BIG time.!
10/24/2012 12:50:46 AM
MonkeyRench says:
Hear! Hear! Most would certainly agree with you..cause you hit the nail on the head!

No point saying anymore...you summed it all up in one post.!


10/24/2012 10:13:39 AM
Tom Sanderson says:
So who are you blaming Jimmyboy? Mr. Hobbs sat on the board like you, taxpayer, expected.
It was the rest of the board members who told him to sit in the corner because of conflicts of interest. Don't blame him. He did what was expected from you.
You will never win any battles if you don't take them beyond this website so hang up your crying towel and relax. What happens in your SIMS world doesn't happen in reality.
10/24/2012 3:29:49 PM
TBDR says:
wah wah wah wah HOBBS wah wah wah wah
10/25/2012 12:56:34 AM
Steven says:
Leadership. Thats all that we want from you chief. Year after year its the same overages. Either get your house in order or get someone else in who will.
10/24/2012 4:40:12 AM
timeforchange says:
Talk about side-stepping. Well below one percent for third quarter variance. Is that one dollar or $100,000. Is the budget good or bad from the beginning of the year? As a taxpayer it would be nice to know but I am not going to find out from this story.

As for legal costs. Hobbs said he was going to fix this place. He didn't. Maybe because he was only one guy, or maybe he just couldn't get it done, either way, it is still a disaster show.

A huge budget with lousy results. The one certainty is that there are going to be many more victims of crime while these clowns develop more strategies.
10/24/2012 7:12:44 AM
farmgal says:
Are the taxpayers paying the legal costs for the officers that were found guilty who only lose a day of pay?? I would just love to have the taxpayers pay for any legal costs I have if I were to break the law.
10/24/2012 10:14:32 AM
tired says:
farmgal, the police association pays for the officers legal costs, which is funded by members of the police service alone
10/25/2012 8:43:39 AM
Buddy says:
Brutal. Excuses and more excuses. Time for a complete re-vamp. Fire them all and hire people who actually care and want to make our city a better place.
10/25/2012 9:17:44 AM
timeforchange says:
Buddy here is what I think.

Nobody gives a damn. Sure, lots of people care about their little corner of the world but to few really care about making this city better and when those few try to step up to the plate, people are ready to roast them.

I think this town needs some serious investigative style journalism that is willing to tackle a huge department in our city, with the largest budget and ask them why we get the same answers every year on lousy crime rates and never meeting budget targets. This is not new to our city. It has been going on forever and it seems Hobbs tried to at least discuss the issues and was basically shown that no one cares.

This department has been given a free ride for as long as I can remember. These guys are in way over their heads. The performance of this organization year after year is all the proof I need to say that.

What you are suggesting Buddy seems long overdue but will likely ever happen.
10/26/2012 4:24:50 PM
Buddy says:
Couldn't agree with you more. Sad times.
10/27/2012 8:06:50 PM
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