Reduced golf, conservatory services likely to go ahead

mercy mercy me says:

the issue of cost savings via sidewalk snow removal and street plowing was mentioned in an interview with the mayor on tbt 6 pm. news a few days ago [he also massaged poor timmy's bruised ego over his disappointment], any way, if the side walk and street cleaning are seriously cut back and result in a noticeable increase in traffic accidents and slip/fall injuries as a result ...will the city be liable for not maintaining a required level of safety?

10/26/2012 6:02:34 PM

jimmyboy says:

WOW WEE..personally 'm getting a wee bit DIZZY from all the ON Again...Off Again action on these 2 subject matters...what is mayor Hobbs stance going to be now....especially on the Conservatory....since he has come around from not being a flower liking guy initially...to one who now likes to visit greenhouses...without doubt we can expect from Hobbs another monumental FacePalm moment or 2...I can hardly wait. ;)

10/26/2012 6:41:03 PM

sky high says:

Are we likely to see a plebiscite in the future on these two items? A plebiscite would settle this once and for all.

10/26/2012 6:48:58 PM

Lally says:

I don't think that reducing the budget for sidewalk snow removal is going to make anyone happy, and it will make it very difficult for seniors and anyone with mobility issues to get around in the winter. I'd like to see the Conservatory stay, but I think we have plenty of golf courses already. Sidewalk snow removal is already not that great.

10/26/2012 6:52:45 PM

chezhank says:

It is quite obvious that the problem of overspending is in other city departments and not with the conservatory nor municipal.
Maybe that is where the city manager should be focusing his attention on,as no one seems to notice the difference,with the cuts that have occurred there.
Good job!
Keep municipal and the conservatory and decrease whatever it was the city manager decreased in the other departments.
This should have been confirmed at budget time,but the city budget process is a joke.

10/26/2012 9:02:02 PM

RealityCzech says:

So... closing Municipal Golf Course and demolishing the greenhouses at the conservatory is seen as a good idea and a cost saving measure... and keeping them open is not seen as fiscally prudent... but from somewhere millions of dollars is going to materialize to pay for a multi-use event centre?

Where is that money going to come from if small operations like Municipal and the Conservatory cannot be afforded, according to the bean counters at City Hall?

10/26/2012 9:02:36 PM

NDP says:

"Some on Council felt the Conservatory and Municipal Golf Course were attacks on quality of life services, and wanted programs like sidewalk snow removal examined for budget savings."

What?! So let me get this straight. You want to keep open an out-of-town golf course when there are dozens of other similar alternatives, and a barely-used greenhouse open...and in exchange you want to take the axe to sidewalk snow removal?! One of the main functions of the city is to remove snow from the roads and sidewalks. It's not to provide pretty flowers or a cheap place to golf.

10/26/2012 9:33:07 PM

Chaos says:

So the city hired a consultant for 50,000 to save only 100,000?!?!!? What a sham. See:



City Manager do you remember the city "lean" program (link above) that was supposed to save 1.5 million over 3 years? The mayor was nodding his head beside you at the press conference. That help you recall? EPIC FAIL! Someone should lose their job for paying 50,000 to save 100,000 (net 50,000).

Any accountability city manager? Any reference in your press conference today about the wasted 50,000 that you spent this year for nothing? The madness has to stop!!!!

10/26/2012 10:13:10 PM

tbay99 says:

Let the crying begin! How dare the city try to save money!

10/27/2012 12:09:01 PM

mercy mercy me says:

Both hobbs and commisso, in TBT tv news interviews in the very recent past ,have brought up the subject of cutbacks to sidewalk cleaning/snow removal and city street snow removal, if there are an inordinate number of accidents, compared to years past,on the streets and sidewalks [slips/falls injuries] due to the cutbacks....will the city be liable?

10/27/2012 2:03:03 PM

collie says:

WTF why is it that C.H. does what a few want and not the taxpayers??? Simple solution to saving money is WAGES!!! then excess personnel, then CITY vehicles left idling, City vehicles being driven around for COFFEE breaks! really take a look at timmy's parking lot!! All those there for coffee break are working within a block?? I dont know? my coffee breaks were taken close to where I was working and were 15 mins. long, I couldnt drive for 5 to 10 mins to timmy's take my 15 mins. then take 5 to 10 mins to drive back to work in a company car!!! There is a lot of ways to save money in C.H. but some want their cake and eat it too. C.H. is wasting too much taxpayers $ on the select few!!!

10/27/2012 7:42:18 PM

jimmyboy says:

reply to "mercy mercy me"...the city will and can be held liable 100% to answer your question posed.

At the end of any given day...in regards to our supposed city "lean" program....the mayor and city council have the final say in what to cut back on...the city manager and his administration can only offer it up on a silver platter to our city council...and we have seen recently that they just are not on the same page....very seldom are they actually.!

10/27/2012 8:15:03 PM

mercy mercy me says:

on the presumption that what you say about the city being liable 100%,Jimmyboy,then i draw some conclusions.....the statements made by hobbs and commisso regarding reductions of street and sidewalk snow/ice removal are reckless and bordering on fear mongering, they were perhaps made to misdirect attention to other service reductions and neither man has done due diligence prior to making the statements...leading to the bottom line, gross incompetence, poor judgment and a lack of respect for the taxpayer....me also thinks some one has a Dick Cheney complex

10/28/2012 5:31:48 AM

maxumpat says:

I think we could save alot more money if we charged what a ride actually costs on the city transit buses.
Lets face it, we are all paying for these big limos to drive around empty a good portion of the time.
The fares need to bring in enough capital so the service at least breaks even.
Not trying to pick on any one thing, but if we are looking at golf and the conservatory I feel transit is a big drain as well.

10/28/2012 9:20:42 PM

jimmyboy says:

Ten Ideas to Save Municipalities Money

#1 -- Refuse collection

The town of Oakville, in southern Ontario, has succeeded in saving $240,000 a year in refuse collection costs through a combination of recycling measures and the adoption of more efficient trash collection practices. The town has switched to a one man truck system, which reduce costs 20-40% from the traditional two and three person crew system.

The town attempted to privatize refuse collection shortly after these efficiency measures were introduced but the town s public works employees submitted the lowest bid and retained the service with the introduction of even more efficient routes and effective utilization of personnel. This example makes two important points; the threat of privatization is a strong motivating force and the public sector can compete with the private sector if they want to.

#2 -- Fire protection

As financial resources continue to dwindle, there is growing recognition that paying firefighters handsome salaries to sit at the station waiting for a fire to occur is inefficient and costly. Some municipalities have required their firefighters to take on other duties, such as rebuilding or even constructing fire trucks or repairing parking meters. Others have implemented comprehensive inspection and fire prevention programs which utilize the knowledge of these highly trained employees. Such programs are proving highly successful, and often lead to reductions in property loss and insurance premiums, savings which benefit the entire community. Some forward looking municipalities have gone so far as to contract out their fire protection services to private contractors, while others augment their force with more volunteers, allowing them to reduce the number of full-time staff.

#3 -- Policing

A community s police service is one of the most difficult municipal services to reform. The safety of our families is important, and changes to policing is an emotional issue. Further, police departments are usually governed by autonomous boards. Nevertheless, there are significant opportunities to cut costs without sacrificing public safety simply by evaluating the budget received by the Department before it is approved by the municipal government.

The best way to reduce costs is to identify ways to use police more efficiently and thus provide the same level of service with fewer people. Some municipalities have reduced paperwork performed by high salaried police officers, by providing them with tape recorders and computers, allowing them more time for active police work. Many departments involve their personnel in crime prevention, drug awareness, and school programs, while others involve their officers in all phases of police work rather than segregating responsibilities.

One reform that has been successfully implemented in Europe and throughout North America is to combine the fire department and the police department to form a public safety department. This combination of fire and police can dramatically reduce the number of employees since every employee is cross-trained and available as needed for emergencies. Whatever the reform, the key is to remember that the police force belongs to and serves the citizens of the community, and should reflect the community s goals, values, and ability to pay.

#4 -- Snow removal

Most municipalities in Canada have sizable budget allocations for the removal of snow from streets and sidewalks. In many cases, the amounts allocated for snow removal are higher than they should be because creative cost saving ideas are not passed on from one municipality to another. For example, the city of Kitchener eliminated standby private snow removal crews and cross trained parks and recreation staff to provide backup capabilities, for a total savings of $150,000. Scarborough saved $120,000 by evaluating snow removal equipment and using the most efficient equipment.

Other cost-saving ideas include allowing snow to accumulate to higher levels before removal, sharing equipment and personnel between neighboring municipalities, and getting citizens and businesses to clear their own sidewalks.

#5 -- Road maintenance

Road maintenance is another very high cost item in most municipal budgets. Many municipalities waste money by not rebuilding roads when they should because of short term budget constraints. This produces false cost savings in most cases because delayed road repairs usually end up costing more due to accelerated road deterioration.

Some departments (Region of Ottawa-Carleton for example) have introduced a full cost-accounting system which takes into consideration the impact of road conditions on costs incurred by drivers such as tires, shocks, oil and gas consumption. There are also delays and accidents which could be factored in when calculating the cost of fixing or not fixing a road system. Sharing equipment and employees between departments and between municipalities is becoming more popular. Several municipalities have outsourced or privatized various parts of their road maintenance programs with much success.

#6 -- Management

Virtually every municipality has too many supervisors and too many managers compared to the private sector. Business and public sector organizations are seeing a trend to fewer managers with those remaining being transformed from being the "boss" to being a coach or facilitator. Staff are placed in teams, and take more responsibility for planning their work. At the same time, the ratio of managers to staff is changing from one manager for every five or even ten staff, to one manager for every 50 to 100 staff.

Municipalities can reduce their costs substantially by moving to the team concept, which yields other benefits such as increased staff and management morale, enhanced productivity, and improved service levels. The City of Owen Sound, Ontario (population 20,000) recently eliminated one of three senior management positions in the Public Works department. Now, each crew selects a lead hand who directs the work at each site, and the town is saving more than $60,000 per year.

#7 -- Consulting studies

In far too many cases, municipalities fall back on consulting studies to help them deal with difficult or sensitive issues. If managers and staff receive appropriate training in program evaluation and problem-solving techniques and in the use of performance measures, they are able to avoid many of the problems which require the use of outside consultants.

The principal factors which cause an over-reliance on consulting studies are a lack of confidence in staff expertise, the established habit of using consultants and an overall resistance to change.

#8 -- Inspection services

Most municipalities still separate their various inspection services according to rigid departmental activities such as building, plumbing, electrical, bylaw enforcement, and fire. Some municipalities have merged responsibilities for some of these activities, but there is room for much more consolidation.

Technology has given municipal inspectors the ability to carry computers which provide the information they require on their inspection. Many municipalities are realizing the cost benefits of cross-training inspectors in a number of areas, reducing the number of specialists required.

#9 -- Get input

Municipal employees are often the source of the best ideas of cost savings. Unfortunately, their opinion is rarely solicited. Many progressive municipalities are endeavoring to include both employee and community resources in their decision making process. The catch phrase used to describe this change is Total Quality Management, but what it really boils down to is good old common sense.

After all, it is only good sense to ask employees how they can improve the services they deliver and actually put them into teams responsible for identifying and solving operational problems. Every mun

10/28/2012 6:17:33 AM

NDP says:

How were you allowed to exceed the 1000 character limit?

10/28/2012 11:10:14 PM

imbroglio says:

Dont forget to give credit to the original author of the above article:
"Ten Ideas to Save Municipalities Money"
by Charles Bens

10/29/2012 3:23:15 PM

baor says:

Hey not only are you a mayor hating sore loser but no you are a plagierizer too ?
How did you get to ramble on with someone elses work for so long...

10/29/2012 5:37:12 PM

olddog says:

If the city is really serious about saving money they should look directly at themselves and how they spend money. For one thing they should get rid of the Active Transportation Coordinator what a total waste of money that salary is.

10/28/2012 8:27:37 AM

Fluffy says:

The city should have lots of cash. MPAC just gave me a punch to the gut that knocked me off my chair. I'm sure the city is licking their chops to blast my property tax bill up to the 5 G mark. Take the money from that!

10/28/2012 11:24:14 AM

tbayguy009 says:

Go figure.

If a person buys a vechicle, they pay a one time tax (HST) and as soon as you drive it off the lot, it loses value.

Property ownership is exactly the opposite.

Purchase a house, and a person will pay taxes every year. Live in it for ten years, and apparently nothing wears out on a house, because the value almost always goes up. Then annual taxes go up. Even if you haven't done a thing to the house.

Makes a person wonder why the system is rigged in such a fashion.

Or right, this is one of those creative ways accountants have invented to make a 'special' system for the government funding. Revenue taken in, is just a numbers game. More like roulette though. For funding whatever projects which will buy the next round of election votes.

It's a total discouragement against home ownership. Somehow values always go up, putting more and more pressure on the home owner.

It's never part of those 'adjusted' inflation numbers either.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

10/28/2012 7:10:28 PM

jimmyboy says:

my 2nd reply to "mercy mercy me"...I believe you hit the nail on the head....as far as HOBBS is concerned...he did the very same with the majority of his initial campaign....played heavy on fear-mongering...when it came down to what he himself was going to do about CRIME in the city...Hobbs has been a most dismal failure.!

Your tern used "Due Diligence"..is often touted by Hobbs and other city administration and city council as being how they operate on a daily basis....which is far from fact on any given day.

I'll throw in a few terms that I too see most fitting for Hobbs and to a degree our city administration....1st for Hobbs alone..."ALL SHAM and NO WOW"....ineptitude, epic failure, inept, unskilled, clumsy, unequipped and my last one....cause I have to stop somewhere "butterfingers".

Incompetent people find it impossible to believe in their own incompetence....our Mayor clearly leads the charge in this department as well sad too say.!

10/28/2012 1:25:31 PM

sky high says:

You know, I don't know who you are but I can say with 100 percent certainty that if you ever came face to face with our mayor you'd be as meek as a little mouse cornered by an alley cat. Quit being acting like such a tough guy behind your computer and post with common sense, not your petulant little emotions.

10/28/2012 4:37:44 PM

collie says:

LOL yer wrong Jimmyboy is not meek when it comes to in person. He is a very passionate and is what he is VOCAL. He does not cow down to anyone.

10/29/2012 9:41:02 PM

SomeGuy says:

I've always wondered why the city shovels the side walks in residential areas.

Every other city I've lived in you had to do you own walk way. If you where a senior often times your neighbour would help you out. They where always done before faster the city and better than what the city seems to do here.

If someone was to fall and slip on your walk way you where giving a warning to clear the ice off with in a certain amount of time, if you did not do it in a certain amount of time you where fined. People made sure there walkways where clear and free of ice very quickly.

I'm not saying all sidewalks should be cleared by people, the city would still have to take are of the more public walk ways (Eg Memorial, Downtown), but I bet we could save a significant amount of money if people would take care of their own walkway.

10/28/2012 10:50:41 PM

The Badger Mountain Hermit says:

In China, you'd better be out on the street cleaning all the snow off the road in front of your joint, or else they come along and throw you in jail.

10/30/2012 5:06:21 PM

mikevirtanen1961 says:

Title: Reduced golf, conservatory services likely to go ahead

Second paragraph: Reducing those services were the main recommendations in the Core Business Review. Both moves were eventually voted down, a decision that disappointed City Manager Tim Commisso and some members of Council.

I've often found that the titles of articles here have little or nothing to do with the content. But this is the first time that I've seen the title say the exact opposite of what was in the article.

10/29/2012 12:53:23 PM

jimmyboy says:

my reply to poster "sky high"...buddy you are so off the mark its not even laughable....we did meet recently person to person....and the situation was the direct opposite of how you describe that meeting....so there's your answer...it has already taken place and happened.

10/30/2012 1:34:56 AM

jimmyboy says:

my reply to poster "baor"....great handle you have there....it just needs "ing" added to it..oh and with regards to the rambling question....work it out genius, if you can wrap your grey matter around it for a wee while...I did but gotta keep it my little secret for now!

10/30/2012 1:39:57 AM

jimmyboy says:

reply to "sky high"...been there and done it...the face to face thing...the net result of same was the complete opposite of what you have dreamed.!

10/30/2012 9:27:24 AM

collie says:

HMMMMM!

Sidewalks are on city property so city should clear them!!!! Shut down the golf courses cut back on wages, quit wasting fuel by idling, REALLY if police were ticketing people for the horrible driving in the city should be making a profit!!! Retire those that have been on Sunshine list for more than 2 years!! Really 1/4 of a million dollars in 3 years is more than enough to live in this city! lots of ways to save money other than what a few are saying has to be done!!

10/30/2012 7:11:16 PM

jimmyboy says:

thank to poster "collie" for the support and a most accurate and fitting description of myself...I was born and raised here...I plan to live out my entire life here because I value this city as it once was....and I intend to make as many waves as possible in a most legitimate way too point out what I both see and believe is wrong in the way in which this city is being lead down what I deem as a garden path most days....major issues are merely addressed by crating additional committees...wasting valuable time....the CRIME PREVENTION is a prime example of this....what have been that groups net results to date.....a big NIL...nothing that is in anyway shape or form of being the least bit effective....oh and about our DRUG STRATEGY and its committee...once again moving at a snails pace to be kind....to sum these up is really quite simple..."ALL SHAM and NO WOW".!

10/30/2012 10:34:13 PM

jimmyboy says:

reply to "imbroglio"....many thanks for the added information regarding the original author....it is much appreciated, the MS Word Document that I have downloaded from the net did not have that information noted on it.

reply to "baor" once again....my ramblings....long post....is my secret...my being a plagierizer....which by the way you have mis-spelled...here is the corrected version FYI..."plagiarizer"...please see the above text.

Oh and one last comment on you.stating that I am a HATER of Mayor Hobbs...as well a sore looser....your version actually was loser.???
is sooooooo very far from reality...so please allow me to correct you on that as well by stating for the record the following:

I HATE no-one or no one thing...I do however have strong dislikes...I do not pull punches when it comes down to my opinions and thoughts on various subjects...especially those encompassing situations which are very near and dear to my heart...such as the overall performance and competency of our mayor, which I rate as very poor to put it as kindly as I can....trust in what I say, I am not alone with my line of thinking...due to the limited amount of text that can be applied to the posts by the readers....trust in what I say, I am not alone with my line of thinking.!

10/31/2012 11:18:00 AM

TBayBuddha says:

Seriously!? The conservatory is LITERALLY falling apart. Barely anyone went there when it was open before it started falling apart, and now that it's been neglected and SHOULD be closed people are suddenly up in arms about it. Why waste money to keep this crumbling building open with "Reduced services"?

Here's an idea, the current location is falling apart and in a really poor location... Why not house a new conservatory at the waterfront so it can draw tourists and more local traffic!?

10/31/2012 11:25:34 AM