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2012-11-01 at 14:49

Conversion halted

By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com

Energy Minister Chris Bentley says the plan to suspend the conversion of Thunder Bay's coal-fired generating station is a temporary pause. 

Bentley on Thursday said the Ontario Power Authority has told him they are looking at other ways to provide the region's power needs and think they can do it and save hundreds of millions of dollars in the process. 

Bentley said he wants proof before cancelling the conversion project altogether. 

"The conversion is being paused," said Bentley in an unsolicited phone call to TB Newswatch. "The issue is whether providing power to Thunder Bay and the Northwest, the power that's needed today and into the future, can be done at a saving of $400 million.

"The planning authority is investigating that. My position is show me. We determined that Thunder Bay and the Northwest gets the power it needs from now into the future. If they can save up to $400 million, it's something I'm very interested in. If there no other ways to accomplish the power, than the conversion will be very much alive." 

In a release issued Thursday afternoon by OPG, the power producer confirmed Bentley's remarks. 

"The Ontario Power Authority, the province's supply planning arm, has informed OPG it needs time to explore other options for electricity supply in the Northwest part of the province. When the OPA is rady to proceed, OPG will provide its best option for consideration at the time," the unsigned release states. 

"We want to thank all those who worked on the detailed planning, and community members who provided support and encouragement for the project. OUr work to date reflected the direction of the long-term energy plan and the government directive to the OPA." 

The release goes on to say the OPG is considering to explore re-powering options at the Thunder Bay generating station and its other coal-fired plant. The energy producer has already begun the conversion of its Atikokant plant from coal to biomass, a power-purchase deal the OPA approved earlier this year. 

In previous interviews OPG officials have stated if the conversion plan was not approved, the plant would have to be shuttered, making it unlikely to operate again in the future. There's no immediate word on what the development means for the future of the Thunder Bay facility, though the OPG release did say the suspension of the conversion will not impact current operations. 

Asked about potential power need increases as the Ring of Fire and other mining interests develop in the region, possibly bringing processing plants or other high-energy industry to the city, Bentley said the power will be there. 

"I think the No. 1 priority is there will be enough power. The east-west tie, which will improve power flow from the north down south and from the south up north, will be completed in the future. The question is getting from here to there. As I said, the prority for me is the Northwest gets the power it needs, and not just for today's needs, but for its economic development opportunities in the future. The planning authority, the Ontario Power Authority, is essentially saying that they believe it can be done for a very significant savings." 

When asked about the impact on employees, Bentley said the province has been planning to get out of coal all along, meaning the plant was slated for closure. The conversion plan, however, changed that in 2010, after the province reinstated the plan to switch to natural gas, following the initial cancellation of the plan in 2006. Now its future is up in the air. 

David Sword, the Union Gas’s district manager for Northwestern Ontario said the energy company was disappointed to learn on Wednesday that Ontario Power Generation was cancelling a planned pipeline to the utility, effectively ending the conversion process.

“It was not expected,” Sword said in a brief phone interview with CKPR Radio. “We were committed to going forward with the project.”

The province had ordered all of Ontario’s power generating stations to wean themselves off coal by 2014, a floating date that's been extended several times from the original 2007 deadline. 

Sword said it’s not news Union Gas officials were hoping to hear.

“We think it’s a missed opportunity to convert the plant,” he said.

Union Gas had done preliminary work on the 30-kilometre pipeline and Sword told Thunder Bay Television the company will be seeking compensation from OPG for cancelling the project. He estimated the compensation ask will be in the $5-million range. 

This is the second time the project has been halted. It was cancelled by the province in 2006, but the plan was resurrected in 2010. 

 

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Comments

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CM Punk says:
WOW!
Another shot in the arm for this unique region we call northwestern Ontario.
So what does this mean for the people that work at the plant I wonder?
11/1/2012 3:04:58 PM
jzahn says:
Hydro: (Won) One; Customer: Zero
11/1/2012 3:36:37 PM
tbayguy009 says:
"Ontario’s $100,000 club has grown 10 per cent in a year despite pleas for wage restraint from public sector workers, with the province’s highest-paid employee — a hydro executive — earning $1.8 million."

To ratepayers - enjoy your new cost of living.
11/1/2012 5:42:02 PM
vimeo says:
So let's get this straight....our fearless provincial leaders have no problem shoving windfarms down our throught under the "clean engergy" band wagon, but have a problem with getting rid of coal because it costs too much. Wait till they get the wind bill.
11/1/2012 3:46:10 PM
vimeo says:
I need glasses.....that was supposed to read "throat".
11/2/2012 11:04:29 AM
tbayguy009 says:
This is a Lieberal government. You HAVE to read between the lies ... er lines.
11/2/2012 5:33:37 PM
Tom Sanderson says:
Follow in the footsteps of Atikokan and burn wood pellets. That would help resurrect the local forest industry somewhat.
11/1/2012 4:12:28 PM
CarbonFootprinter says:
Might just be what's planned.

The only downside, is there will be little need to let the forests grow much more than 20-30 years between harvesting periods. Any waste from sawmills, (should more than just one be operating) will never keep up to the demand for fibre.

Resolute forest products is getting close to having their biomass co-gen come online. They've already made their suppliers aware that they will be seeking all the birch they can get from the crown land loggers. The off shoot of that will be a dwindling supply for the individual users that actually burn it for housing heat, and the price of what will be available will escalate.

Interestingly, the FIT contract's for biomass will pay more per kWh than wind and water renewable energy projects. Considerably more, if the consumer price index triggers the 50% escalation bonus.
11/1/2012 7:27:03 PM
SbJforever says:
Provincial government could of paid for scubbers for all the coal plants in service and still be ahead monetarily but not in the eyes of the public its all a game for politicians.
11/1/2012 9:47:57 PM
Marak says:
McGuinty is toast and now he has nothing to lose, so why would he bother continuing these high priced idiotic "conversions" when he has already pissed away 1.3 BILLION on shutting down his NG plants! Not only is he leaving the sinking ship, NO ONE in his cabinet or party for that matter wants the job knowing the mess they will have to clean up!
11/1/2012 4:25:53 PM
mercy mercy me says:
comment was used in the 'Powered up' story, but if the shoe fits....just when i was becoming used to being deemed a second class citizen of ontario, now i'm relegated steerage...and when the ship sinks, i will be the first to drown
11/2/2012 5:54:31 PM
Doug Meyers says:
How much have these bozo planners wasted in cancelled plans, both here and In the south? This is what happens when politics interferes with sound engineering practice, a rush to get a politically acceptable "plan", followed by a cancellation when the numbers catch up and reality sinks in. Anyone want to bet the NG conversion is back on the burner (no pun intended) before the next election, especially if it looks like the Liberal MPPs are in trouble?
11/1/2012 4:31:50 PM
dozerman says:
WOW...BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND ANOTHER CONSULTANT. WISH I HAD THEIR CHEQUEBOOK.
11/1/2012 4:43:42 PM
chezhank says:
The Thunder Bay Hydro facility probably uses more electricity than it produces!
Seriously when was the last time it had any significant output from its 306 MW capacity?
11/1/2012 5:54:56 PM
chezhank says:
.
Tbnewswatch.com

11/1/2012 9:08:14 PM
hadenough says:
Chezhank, don't you mean Ontario Power Generation facility?
11/1/2012 10:03:37 PM
chezhank says:
Yes,you are right,Thunder Bay Hydro provides the distribution!
Tbnewswatch.com

11/2/2012 10:07:12 AM
mikevirtanen1961 says:
Unit 3 was at 98% on Wednesday. Note that power demand is near lowest at this time of year; it'll be running more often as the weather gets cold.
11/2/2012 8:21:04 AM
chezhank says:
Yes they ramped her up for 1 hr Wednesday,what did they do last night?



Here is the news release from the OPA.

11/2/2012 9:58:36 AM
tbayguy009 says:
And the day before?

Thunder Bay G2 and G3 idle at the time of my posting.

And Kakabeka (a 100 year old facility) is 1/3 output at 8 megawatts.

I bet KB out produces one of those coal planets over the course of a year. Kind of like the tortose and the hare kid's story.

Does anyone know how to access the yearly power production numbers for these generation stations? I only know of how to access daily figures.

I would love to know how much these coal plants really have been producing yearly, for the last couple of years.

All this 'stink' may be over just a couple weeks of them running at full capacity over an entire year.

The cost of idling day after day after day has got to add up.

Spend a dollar to save a dime. Except this is government. Use millions of dollars to save thousands. Then we all wait for those savings to add up ..... and wait ... and wait. A generation comes and goes.

I'm still hoping for a balanced budget.

MPAC assessment ... wait a minute. I get their plan now.
11/2/2012 4:03:32 PM
chezhank says:
@tbayguy009
Me thinks if you register with the Sygration site you can get those figures! (top of page).
It is too bad the local media does not release the OPA's media release to inform the public as to the rationale of their decision.
11/2/2012 6:44:32 PM
damanisback says:
too bad they can't convert it to run on B.S. cause there's plenty of it collecting salary and pension with no job description.
11/1/2012 6:03:18 PM
minstrel says:
the sad part is, they likely could run on BS!
literally and metaphorcally!
11/2/2012 7:22:38 PM
iceman says:
My guess is this is the 1st step in telling us we will just keep burning coal
11/1/2012 6:43:56 PM
jimmyboy says:
Okay the one burning question I have is....can we hear from Bill Mauro or is he too busy doing his hair.???
11/1/2012 7:11:32 PM
tudor says:
jimmyboy, i don't know Mr. Mauro, but i do know you and you are a sad case.

Go get a life beyond your computer.

Put your name forward to run against Mr. Mauro next time, get your six votes which would likely be double what you got when you ran for Mayor and give us all a break from your insultive, borish comments..............

But while I am here I will ask you for the 30th time why you hate Mr. Hobbs.............

What happened in the Mayor's past career as a police officer that has coloured your opinion of him so much

please let us all know or will you simply ignore this question like you do every other time.

11/2/2012 7:44:53 AM
nonsence says:
This is baaaaaad for Thunder Bay. Once this facility is closed the city will no longer collect taxes associated with a industry this size, and citizens will be left to fill in the gap of lost revenue (property tax will increase even more).

Also local business will no longer be providing materials and trades work which we all know Thunder Bay cant afford to lose anymore of.

Not to mention most of the employees will probably have to relocate which again is bad as they will no longer contribute to Thunder Bay's economy...........
11/1/2012 9:29:08 PM
useyourbrain says:
Maybe if all the workers didn't make the sunshine list every year and that amount is growing with raises every year they would not have waged themselves out of jobs. It's not affordable it today's economy.
11/1/2012 9:47:11 PM
hogfuelman says:
CarbonFootprinter,,,not sure where your getting yor info from,but that cogen wont be burning just birch,it will burn what ever is left from the chippers,and the limbers,that could be pine ,spruce,poplar,or birch,then it will be tubbed ground,loaded on the trucks,and trucked to town,,why do i know this,because i work for bowater woodlands!
get your facts before you post.
11/2/2012 2:43:33 AM
tbayguy009 says:
Great, so companies will be burning vast quantities of diesel fuel to produce biofuel.

Makes about as much sense as converting corn into ethenol. Perhaps you should brush up on some facts about how the US corn crop failure is leading to higher food (and animal feed) costs. Yet no one will stop turning food (a short supply) into gas for cars.

Anyway, how about 'we' just stick to the original plan, burn coal. Just make it cleaner. Let the trees grow for now

Does the area need to bring in diesel fuel from 1000's of miles away so machinery can bring biomass out of the bush from 100's of miles away? If diesel fuel is pulled from the loop, these systems crash.

Oh, enlighen us with the FACTS of this magical fix. How much natural gas will still be used to ignite this flame? What is the energy cost of extraction vs energy gain in biomass use?

A lot of 'stuff' will get moved around, but is any of it truely energy efficient?

Hmmmm .......... oh right. Your opinion has a 'slight' bias to it
11/2/2012 3:02:40 PM
CarbonFootprinter says:
Oh, i know my facts. I work for a supplier of hog from stump to dump, and have done every facet of the chain for many years myself. Chipper & log waste is ground up, but so are unwanted species in tree-length, such as balsam, young poplar, etc. Most small parcels i've cut, we usually grind everything, save the spruce logs.

I didn't say that they would be using birch alone. I simply know first hand, that Shuniah, and Firesteel have been made aware that RFP wants the birch they used to market as fuelwood, for the co-gen.

Tbayguy009 - That's the conundrum i have been thinking about for several years. My crew goes through about 2500 liters of fuel per day for production, bunching, skidding, grinding, and transport. There's apparently good money in it, and our crew has done very well this fall, $-wise.

But to guess at the "footprint" that it actually takes to produce the energy the mill will make from the biomass perplexes me when i ponder it occasionally. I doubt it's carbon neutral
11/2/2012 8:14:38 PM
dbenedic says:
After the recent disaster around New York, there is no question about global warming and the need to decrease burning fossil fuels or stop. Why can't our politicians get the message?
11/2/2012 7:30:28 AM
tbayperson says:
Because they don't care. The only thing that matters to the current people in power, is money. We only have ourselves to blame, for voting in idiots.
11/2/2012 9:22:52 AM
Tim H. says:
But the Earth has been cooling since 1996.

Al Gore and other global warming alarmists always forget that annoying little fact.
11/2/2012 2:33:48 PM
tbayguy009 says:
WOW ... you read way too much main stream media.

Get some othe possible real facts.

Analysis over the last 14 years shows a slight global temperature increase.

Hmmm. BUT guess what, over the last 16 years it magically zero's itself to no gain. Which set of stats make the news, do ya think?

The true net result is that over the last 130 years (since the formal recording of temperatures worldwide), the average temperature has increased .75 degrees.

Let the sink in for a minute. 130 years - .75 degrees.

That time frame encompasses the entire industrial revolution and 2 world wars.

As for New York. I do sympathize with them. I could offer some melencoly tune on my violin. Or would you rather hear my HAARP.

Just some food for concideration. But if you are blindly going to believe what is written by the media, you should really give some other sources of info a test.

There is hint in my post just to make it more 'fun' for ya.
11/2/2012 6:09:04 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
What's a little Mercury, compared to Fukushima-Diachi's 1 thru 4?
11/2/2012 10:04:43 AM
albertabound says:
I work in this type of industry. This station should be converted to natural gas. With the surplus of nat gas and the hugh nat gas shale fields in the states and canada, nat gas wil be a cheap clean fuel for many many years to come. The tbay hydro plant can be used to powe smelters for the mining industry boom and the ring of fire thats coming. The liberals have screwed us all with their miss handling of the Ontario's hydro. Unfortunately us poor tax payers are going to be the ones to pay for it. It's no wonder Dalton McGuinty is quiting after he has screwed thing up so badly. Industry has been leaving the province for years. Ontario use too be the engine of Canada, but now power is just too expensive here due to the provinces energy screw ups. It'a always a shame when politics seems to trump common sense.
11/2/2012 10:26:36 AM
ANVIL OF CROM says:
Is it a big suprise the cash strapped government stalled this ? these conversions plans take years. And we have a big surplus of energy here in the north, which will continue unless big industry needs increase ie ring of fire. But that project is still years away.
Seems the conversion was in the interest of clean air, coal is cheap but nasty. A natural gas conversion from coal, even cleaner burning low sulphur coals would be a big step up in that regard.
Interesting fact is that natural gas has become cheaper and will be for years to come. Fracking has increased natural gas reserves to an all time high , thus lowering natural gas costs.
BUT why do we not see that reflected in our bills, look at you bill, gas cost is not a big part of the bill.
Infrastructure costs are.
The more pipe union gas lays, and has to maintain, the more that part of your bill becomes.
11/2/2012 10:35:03 AM
Tim H. says:
coal is just old biomass. its cheap, theres lots of it and it works excellent.

long live coal burning plants and death to pretenders of "green' energy!!!
11/2/2012 1:08:43 PM
tbayguy009 says:
Trees are glued together with lignin.

Compression and time makes lignite (soft coal)

A smart man looks at a lump of coal and says, naw, I can speed up this evolutary geological time scale. Harvest the trees not the coal. Lets burn boat loads of diesel, for man is better than nature. We know this bio smoke is healtier for us. Burning wood doesn't make C02. (wait a minute, I'll have to get back to you about how to lie on that little factoid)

But is he a smart man?

Yes he is, because he has the power to manipulate us. And sadly we let him.
11/2/2012 5:49:25 PM
hotchoc says:
Do people just mislead on purpose. Natural gas prices and my bill has never been lower. It is lower than it has been in a decade so I am not sure what Anvil is speaking of.
Albertabound. While I am not a Liberal, this gov't was yelled at on this site for spending too much money, now they get yelled at for maybe halting the project because of the money. If power really was so expensive that it is driving business away, why is Cliff's resources building their smelter plant in Ontario. This type of misinformation just leads to more comments based on errors. Power is one component of a business cost, taxation, supply of materials, access to markets/Labour, all contribute to business decisions. Simplistic accusations do not serve the debate.
So to those who hate the Liberals for how they spend money. Are you glad this project may be shelved and the money saved, jobs and tax base lost in order to save money. Is this what you wanted? Because now it might happen and it is not a good thing.
11/2/2012 1:27:45 PM
jimmyboy says:
my reply to poster "tudor"....well first I must clarify your position when it comes down to you knowing me....that statement is as false as false can be.....secondly I am actually related to Mauro....my post has seemed to garner a high number of likes in case you have not noticed....indicating others out there are not his fans.

I will address you with respect to my being a hater of mayor Hobbs....I do not HATE anyone or anything....I do however have strong dis-likes of many things as do a lot of individuals.

I have never ignored your posed questions what so ever.....so too answer to this same subject yet again....here it is for you "tudor"...

So with that out of the way....allow me to say this....short and sweet summary of our current mayor and all of his antics to date....he is without doubt..."All SHAM and No WOW".
11/2/2012 7:08:08 PM
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