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2012-12-31 at 11:42

Debating gun control

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
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THUNDER BAY -- Stricter gun control laws won’t stop tragedies like the shooting in Sandy Hook Elementary School from happening, says a regional spokesman for an outdoors club.


The debate for stricter gun control was sparked following the mass shooting at a Newmark, Conn. elementary school on Dec. 14 that left 20 children and six adults dead.

The Wall Street Journal reported that the incident sparked calls for a ban on assault weapons and ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 shots. The newspaper went on to say that Sen. Dianne Feinstein would introduce the bill next year.

MP Marc Garneau made similar remarks regarding a possible ban to semi-automatics.

John Kaplanis, executive director for the Northwestern Ontario Sportsmen Alliance, argues that Canada has had the strictest gun control regulations the country has ever seen, but ultimately that won’t stop tragedies from happening.

“You can legislate, law-abiding people such as farmers and hunters and that’s not going to change any of the bad things that are happening,” Kaplanis said.

“At this time it is a very difficult time for everybody including firearms owners and anyone who has children who go to school me included. However, it is not a time for firearms owners to proclaim that they need to fight for their rights.

"The flipside of that is I don’t think the gun control advocacies should be using this to further their own agenda but they are sadly enough.”

He added that it is up to society to look at why people with mental health issues aren’t helped.

It is far more difficult to deal with those social issues than simply legislate firearm owners, he said.

The laws only impact those that follow them and criminals will always find ways to find guns, he added.

MP John Rafferty (NDP, Thunder Bay – Rainy River) said there’s room for improvements with Canada’s firearm controls.

He pointed out that there’s a number of prohibited weapons that people can still purchase through mail order across the border. He said there needs to be improve on border control and mailing regulations to ensure that rules are followed.

“There’s also a number of weapons that should be on the prohibited list,” he said.

“There’s a Chinese semi-automatic that with a little bit of home shop work could be made into a full-automatic weapon. I think those kinds of things need to be looked at carefully and put into categories were they belong.”

 

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Comments

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advocate says:
My former substitute teacher, Mr. Kaplanis, has taken a better approach than the NRA, with encouraging increased assistance to Mental Health and education of Firearms.

With that said, I think one thing should be pointed out that this IS an American problem. The US has 15x more deaths by firearms per capita than any other western nation. So I am not sure if we need to increase legislation here, but certainly down there something needs to be done.
12/31/2012 12:43:30 PM
eddylives says:
The guns are out there.
You will never eliminate them.
Regulation and law is for the law abiding citizens.....criminals do not care what they are.
Nut jobs will be out there also....good luck rounding them all up also until the health care system changes.
Even then they will slip through the system.
Using tragiic events to attempt to further your anti gun adgenda is in really poor taste and actually hurts your cause.
A person that is hell bent on doing something will just use another means....thats just the way it is.
Control and regulate the types of firearms sure....but please stop painting all gun owners with the same brush its getting old.
12/31/2012 1:03:36 PM
WhinyMcWhiner says:
It does not mean legislation is a waste of time. Legislation that bans and limits access to firearms does limit their use and availability. We're talking about how accessible firearms are. In Canada, our gun control laws have limited their access and storage laws have deterred many accidents, such as kids finding them hurting themselves or others. Comparing our stricter laws to the US's less strict laws shows a direct correlation in less deaths per capita via firearms in Canada. It's absolutely undeniable.

Legislation limits legal access to firearms to only those that are trained to use them. Criminals actually have a harder time getting a hold of firearms because you have now taken away the avenue of acquiring them legally. They will be forced to purchase them "off the street" which is not easy. Consider the amount of stabbings TBay has had in recent years. Imagine if those people involved had quick and easy access to handguns. What then do you think the homicide rate would be?
1/1/2013 4:07:20 AM
WhinyMcWhiner says:
Nut jobs will be out there? Good luck rounding them up? Are you serious? So we do nothing? Maybe if the US made it easier to access a mental health professional than it is to access a handgun, that individual wouldn't have gotten to the point where shooting kids was his answer.

And why can't we talk about gun control when tragic events such as this happen? Are we supposed to ignore them? Would the victims of these shootings and any other shootings have benefited from stricter laws? Of course they would have. There are simply far fewer shootings and deaths by firearms in countries that limit access to them. It's a statistical fact.

Don't misrepresent the positive effects that good gun legislation has. It doesn't just "punish law abiding citizens"; it provides an obstacle that limits access to people who mean to do harm.

1/1/2013 4:30:47 AM
ranma says:
It is a heck of a lot easier to get guns in the USA than it is in Canada. Our laws are FINE. I am not a hunter, or an avid fan of guns, but when will the insanity stop?

Besides, in the school shooting, the mom LEGALLY owned all the guns used. All that these laws ever do, is go after the law abiding citizens. Just like the DRM that the MPAA and RIAA have forced into our lives.

If a criminal wants to get a gun, he does not go to a store to buy it. He steals it, or buys it from the black market.
12/31/2012 1:32:05 PM
tbayguy009 says:
Or, if you are a Mexican drug cartel, you wait for the next government sponsored shipment of military weapons.

They called it Fast and Furious. The public still hasn't been told as to why some brainiac thought is was a good idea.

Evidence that mental illness also finds its way into government.
12/31/2012 2:19:24 PM
razor_burn says:
That's what you think. I can get a 9mm handgun in the mail from B.C. for $250. It's that easy.
1/2/2013 10:01:20 AM
gone for good says:
Tim Mcveigh took the Alfred Murray building down with simple fertilizer.
Box cutters took the World Trade Center's down. Gun control is fine as it is. We do need better people control. How to do that is anyones guess.
12/31/2012 1:45:56 PM
tbayguy009 says:
Just like in the USA, is the media going to debate itself on this.

People with mental health problems do crazy things (or are pushed). That is the beginning and end of this. Also, the Bushmaster AR-15 WAS IN THE TRUNK OF THE CAR when the police searched it. Has anyone seen pictures otherwise?

So what assult rifle is to blame? The handsgun? MP John Rafferty, you know that handguns are ALREADY restricted in this country. There is no need to stir things up. Again.

The gun shops in the states are sold out to the bare walls mostly. Even the storage warehouses are empty with 6 month waiting times for shops to get more.

If anyone is paying attention (wake up media), the US public is voting on this already. By purchasing everything they can get.

All the nice nice media hugging isn't going to stop the US comsumer. A history lesson on the US constition needs to be published so the public here can understand why they even have that 2nd ammendment.

500 gun deaths in gun free Detroit.
12/31/2012 2:07:37 PM
panzerIV says:
If we need to change gun laws it will be making harsher sentences for those who import, possess or sell illegal weapons. We also need to make sure that we do a better job of stopping illegal weapons from entering Canada from the US (were 99% come from).
12/31/2012 3:29:34 PM
localdog says:
And in similar news, lets talk about BSL, or "Breed Specific Legislation" if you will...

"eddylives says:
The [pit bulls] are out there.
You will never eliminate them.
Regulation and law is for the law abiding citizens.....criminals do not care what they are.
Nut jobs will be out there also....good luck rounding them all up also until the health care system changes.
Even then they will slip through the system.
Using tragiic events to attempt to further your anti [pit bull] adgenda is in really poor taste and actually hurts your cause.
A person that is hell bent on doing something will just use another means....thats just the way it is.
Control and regulate the types of [licensing] sure....but please stop painting all [pit bulls and their] owners with the same brush its getting old."

The Ontario government did it to responsible pet owners and gun owners didn't seem to care. Why should anyone care if they do it to responsible gun owners now?
12/31/2012 4:48:52 PM
buddyanon says:
the quote "guns don't kill people, people kill people" comes to mind. Fix the root of the problem don't just put a bandaid on it. Fix the people first. There needs to be stiffer penalties for weapons charges(stiffer penalties for crimes in general criminals get off too easy) and more money going into mental health.
1/1/2013 2:20:02 AM
WhinyMcWhiner says:
"Gun laws that ban or limit the sales of guns will not make the world safer," says guy who sells guns.

Later a tobacco spokesman was adamant that there was no real link between cigarettes and lung cancer.
1/1/2013 4:36:53 AM
tbayguy009 says:
The French showed that GMO corn causes increased rates of cancer in rats. Over a 2 year study. Here government only needed a 90 day trial to accept GMO as OK for public consumption. No one cares though. It's still being sold and eaten. Poor countries like Argentina want this stuff off their land.

Health care professionals also say flouride is good for you. So have another glass. (but then why is bottled water so popular?)

Fear of the unknown terrorist with a gun is driving more law creation than factual evidence of things which are already known.

Fear of a gun's 'potential' is being discussed here, while bad people get the sympathic 'maybe it wasn't just your fault. Maybe your parents/society/racism/bullies or whatever excuse is apporiate makes a persons actions 'forgiveable'.

There have been other potential mass shootings in the last month, which were STOPPED because they met full opposition from good guys with guns. Yet the stories didn't make front pages news. Ask yourself why.
1/1/2013 3:49:35 PM
NDP says:
Conservatives who are opposed to gun control point to the fact that there are a lot of crazy, desperate people out there who will find a weapon and commit a crime regardless of the law. I agree with that to a point.

We still require gun legislation to make guns less accessible in the home, not only to keep them away from children, but also potential burglars who then sell the guns to organized criminals.

More gun legislation will not make us safer. We need to work on those crazy people by working to eliminate poverty, invest in social services to get people cleaned up and employed. The problem is as soon as the left proposes to do this, the Conservatives shoot it down and call it Communism. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
1/1/2013 4:06:48 PM
pc says:
One minor little fact that nobody seems to have mentioned here yet is that gun bans don't appear to work the way the'anti-gun' supporters want them to. Look at Chicago where guns are banned. 500 homicides, most involving guns, in 2012.
1/2/2013 7:44:35 AM
tbayguy009 says:
You are rigth about Chicago. I got the city wrong.

Australia too.

The bans were not limited to so-called “assault” weapons or military-type firearms, but also to .22 rifles and shotguns...cost the Australian government about $500 million

Since then, the nation’s crime statistics:

Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;
Assaults are up 8.6 percent;
Armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;

In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;

In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;

There has been a reported “dramatic increase” in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

The exact same story in England. Crime went UP!

Then think about the situation where Syrian 'civilians/rebels' want governments suppy weapons to fight their battle.

Everyone's got an opinion but no one looks at historical facts. And most people are hypocites.

Just like a that FEAR of the deer hunt inside the city limits.
1/2/2013 2:03:00 PM
SomeGuy says:
I would like to see the numbers that make up these percentage, or at least rates per 100,000 like you see crime stats here.

If you have 2 homicides then you have 6 that's a 300% increase.

1/2/2013 9:32:49 PM
conker2012 says:
Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

Americans have the right to bare arms, but not the right to bare bullets. Increase the cost of bullets to $50-100 a round and require individual packaging. People would think twice about storing 30 rounds if they knew it would cost them $1500-$3000. At that cost it is reasonable to for somebody to buy 6 bullets for a revolver as personal protection. This is also resonable for hunters. The animal hunting tags could be cheaper if the tax was all on the bullets instead. $50 for a deer is reasonable considering what farmed meats cost per pound.

1/2/2013 9:33:35 AM
NearCanuck says:
Is Mr. Rafferty referring to prohibited knives?

The US has very strict export regulations for any firearms and ammunition. You are required to make a purchase through a federally approved FFL exporter, who generates the export permit, and you also need to submit importation paperwork from the Canadian side.

Failure to follow these regulations puts everyone involved on the naughty list of the US Department of State, including Homeland Security and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. If the firearm is on the prohibited list in Canada, then the importation permit will be denied.

As for the 'easy to make automatic' Chinese-made firearm; if that was the case, then the RCMP firearms lab would have done it already and it would be prohibited.

The RCMP have had access to those firearms for probably half a decade and haven't converted them to an automatic firearm in their 'home shop'.

1/2/2013 10:05:28 AM
tbayguy009 says:
I believe, a person could easily buy ammunition over the counter in the USA and import it into Canada if you were in possession of a PAL. That is the way I read the law online.

HOWEVER if you were caught by any US authorites you would be charged with a felony. re: you had better be a federally approved FFL exporter. And they probably would throw you in jail.
1/3/2013 4:08:49 PM
NearCanuck says:
It would depend on the store, but, as a Canadian, you would normally be prohibited from buying or possessing ammunition unless you:
a) have a valid U.S. State-issued hunting licence or permit or an invitation to a U.S. competitive sports-shooting event, or

b) have proof of residency in the U.S. for at least 90 days, and

c) an alien or admission number issued by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)

But you are correct, that a person could import ammunition with a PAL, provided you declare it and the amount is within limits. Exporting from the U.S. is the clincher.

1/4/2013 1:28:18 PM
RBosch says:
"Guns don't kill people - people kill people" is a dumb statement, but let's bring it to the basic level of "people with loaded guns kill people". So, if it is made more difficult to own a gun and there are serious penalties for illegally owning one, and the cost of owning the ammunition for legal guns was high enough to discourage the purchase of large amounts, that, at the very least would deter such events to some degree. Also would be making the ownership of "assault" style guns, along with hefty penalties for possession of same, and the possession of large style clips for ammunition would also assist. There are many things that can be done and I think that the government needs to look at all avenues in an attempt to curtail the ownership and use of any such weaponry. We need to at least try. To sit back and whine, like some do, is ludicrous.
1/2/2013 8:44:13 PM
oscarmyerweiner says:
Harsher penalties need to be it place for crimes committed with firearms or weapons for that matter. Seven years jail time for killing someone is just pathetic and unjust. It's not the weapon that kills it's messed up people who kill.
1/3/2013 2:17:23 PM
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