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2013-02-28 at NOON

City makes a call for expressions of interest for green couriers

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
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Green couriers could be zipping along area roadways in the near future, but only if the city can find the interest.

Dan Munshaw, manager of the city’s supply management division, informally tested the marketplace last year by speaking with area companies that provided similar services.

This year, Munshaw is making his research more official. The city has posted a call for expressions of interest for green couriers.

Munshaw said using bicycle couriers as well as a fleet of electric vehicles could significantly reduce the city’s carbon footprint. He also threw out the idea of using public transit.

“The city and its supply partners are trying to support council’s strategic objective of having everything cleaner and greener and having a more vibrant community,” he said.

“Where we have supplies being delivered to the city that are non-rushed, non-critical and have a bit more time to deal with, our supply partners can use the services of the green courier to deliver these products.”

He admits implementing the green courier idea isn’t without its challenges.

One of the big issues is the city’s weather. Having a bike courier operating in the cold or on slick roads would be a safety issue.

Munshaw suggested to overcome this obstacle, couriers could switch to using public transit to get around the city.

“We’re looking at who may be interested in providing a service to the city that would support that concept,” he said.

“We would be accommodating to try and work with a business or company to try and launch something like this. It has to be sustainable and has to have a good business plan. We’re flexible. I’m just trying to tease the market to say ‘the city of Thunder Bay is interested in doing something innovative to support the environment.’”

He added that concept could be the first of its kind.

Lisa Lemarquand, marketing director for Zoom Courier, said the company put in its bid this week.

Zoom Courier has offered a bike courier for the past two years, but primarily runs the service during the summer. The courier often transported small packages, like letters.

Lemarquand said the city’s plan would allow them to offer a green option all year round.

“The folks at Zoom thought there was a need for it and ran a full-time courier for the summer months,” she said.

“When we do run it, we have, so far, enough business to run just with one. We’ve just put in a bid with the city to try it again. I think people are getting more and more aware of our eco needs so I’m think it will just increase. We’re going to start with one and see where it goes.”

 

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Comments

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YellowSnow13 says:
OH COME ON!!!! This city can't even time the street lights to prevent cars from stopping at every set of lights in the city. So going with green delivery people is going to do what? Why don't you start by setting all the lights to be green on FW Road going North and timeing them so you don't always get a red. Then do Memorial Ave all going south to get the green. Then Balmoral heading North, then Junot going South. Then just maybe you will provide some cleaner air to people. If they can do it Hamilton they can do it here. Well unless the Traffic people just can't handle the job. Until then why are you wasting our time?
2/28/2013 12:44:18 PM
ruralmedic says:
Are you talking about the King and Main corridors of Hamilton? The reason they can do it on those 2 streets is because they are ONE WAY STREETS.. that makes it way way easier.

that said, I think some roads, in certain directions, at certain times of day, could use better timing... Dawson Road leading out of town during the afternoons is a good start (then again, ALL the time is just as good).

Green couriers are a great idea. It will likely save the city money (eg. you pay less taxes) and it will keep our air a little cleaner..

heck, if I lived in the city I'd start my own business and submit a proposal... I work out on my days off, why not make a bit of cash doing so?
2/28/2013 4:17:59 PM
loudmouth101 says:
green up what we got ... I watched a large City truck this morning ... a bed of ashphalt in the back... the truck stopped, a man got out of the passenger side, dropped a shovel full of ashpalt mix into the hole, got back into the truck... all the while another city worker sitting in the truck following with his lights on... spalins why we are broke.
2/28/2013 12:44:33 PM
RelaxinginMurillo says:
That would be a legal requirement for mobile operations. The crash/warning truck following is protection against the people that seem to drive with their eyes only focused perhaps 10ft from their windshield.
3/1/2013 8:21:29 AM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
Bad idea.
2/28/2013 12:47:00 PM
ranma says:
So will police be issuing tickets to these couriers, if and when they violate traffic laws like I have seen so many cyclist do in the past? When you are an idiot and run that stop sign, or that red light, how do you expect to survive when you are hit by someone who does not see you?

I am all for going green, but we need to crack down on these cyclists that are endangering themselves by not obeying the law, not having lights on their bikes after dark, and no reflectors. I can't count the amount of times I almost killed some idiot last year because they were invisible.
2/28/2013 12:49:38 PM
Delbert Grady says:
Communism ideals are alive and well in Thunder Bay. Too bad they are using my tax dollars for their psychotic ideas.

City doesnt dictate the market. This is absolute insanity. Somebody needs to stop these idiots. Its little wonder why there is alleged threats directed their way.
2/28/2013 12:53:30 PM
DougMyers says:
Hey long time no see.

I think you misread the article. It says the city is looking for expressions of interest. No one is dictating anything here. The city is simply looking to see if someone wants to do it.
2/28/2013 2:02:49 PM
Reignmaker says:
"Communism"
Tbnewswatch.com

2/28/2013 4:10:56 PM
Just sayin' says:
Would be a great way to get our bike lanes used!
2/28/2013 1:17:07 PM
oscarmyerweiner says:
Wow, I can't believe I just read this. Add it to the idiotic list along with the rest of them. Too bad we can't choose what are tax dollars are spent on. I would definitely want a refund.
2/28/2013 1:37:55 PM
bttnk says:
The city looks at making a move at going green with green couriers and people are out to slam them. Some people are so anti progress it makes me sick. As far as "going green" Thunder Bay is so far behind, so many cities (of equal or greater size) it is disturbing. It is an attitude that needs adjusting as can be seen on this board. I'm just glad we have leaders, like Dan Munshaw, who have the wherewithall to stand up to the negativity in the interest of progress. Thank you.
2/28/2013 1:41:07 PM
Doug Meyers says:
I am all for reducing our environmental footprint, but I have to agree with some of the previous comments. The City repeatedly spouts off about how they it is "Clean, Green & Beautiful", but they can't synchronize traffic lights to reduce idling, let alone keep their own employees from needlessly idling City vehicles. Add to that left turn arrows that turn on even though no one is turning left, walk signs that come on even though no one has pushed the button to turn on the walk signal, lack of turning lanes where desperately needed, etc. etc. Then is an excessive number of street lights in this city, many of which are on all day long or turn on too soon and off too late. I cannot believe in this day and age that there aren't better street light controllers. The City just can't get it into its head that the most effective and least costly environmental initiative is just to "TURN IT OFF!"
2/28/2013 2:14:28 PM
Delbert Grady says:
Just how exactly do you synchronize traffic lights? If you start on one end of Arthur st, and I start on the other. In order for us to have all green lights, they would have to stay green for the entire time it took us to drive to each end of the street.

Doesnt anybody ever think that one through?
2/28/2013 3:03:23 PM
nads74 says:
are you serious??? You've never heard of lights be in sync? Holy crawl out of your hole! Happens in many cities and if you can't piece together in that head of yours how that would work then I can't help you.

I agree on the lights being in sync, no one should be idling at red light with no one else around. And as far as courier people using a bus in the winter...lol you'll get your package in 4 days with all of the wait times at each spot...really people somethings are possible in this city and lets face it somethings aren't!
2/28/2013 4:02:40 PM
Delbert Grady says:
Ok, tell me how you can synchronize all the traffic lights on Arthur St. like I used in my example.

Tell us how neither driver will be sitting at red lights.

We're waiting. 'Cause I keep hearing people cry about it, but yet nobody can explain how exactly you smart people are going to do it. Perhaps you can be the first?
2/28/2013 5:02:11 PM
YellowSnow13 says:
Mr. Grady. Are you on something. You can't sync the lights the way you are telling it. Sync the lights for 1 direction only! That's why I said sync the lights heading North on FW Rd. then put Memorial Ave going the other direction. So commute on FW rd to go one way and the Mem. Ave the other way. That way you get less waiting at lights and the businesses get more people going by their stores. Now you have the green people happy too because the car isnt' running as long so a 10 minute trip might now only be 5 minutes because of lights. Got it?
2/28/2013 7:28:08 PM
Delbert Grady says:
If you sync the lights in one direction only, it does not sync anything.

Think about it.

If one direction gets all green lights, the other direction will get all red lights. Where's the advantage?

Also, intersecting roads will be all over the place. Now, how are you going to sync those lights?

It cannot be done.

Everyone thinks they should be able to drive around and get every light green. Life does and can not work that way.

The only example that can work is in cities with high volume of traffic and left turns. Some of you may have seen this. Where one side of a north/south bound lanes will get their left turn signal, and straight ahead green lights. The opposing side will have to wait for their greens. IE no same time left turn signals like we have in Tbay.

That's somewhat possible, but Thunder Bay doesn't have the volume of traffic to necessitate that.

So, sorry folks, no matter what you think, it does not work. Time to step into reality.
3/1/2013 10:24:07 AM
ruralmedic says:
"If you sync the lights in one direction only, it does not sync anything."

um.. yes it does, it syncs the lights in one direction.. do you think before typing?

advantage? think a hypothetical "rush hour".. 300 cars going into the city from, let's say, dawson road to downtown, and only 10 leaving. not syncing the lights creates 310 idling cars at (more or less) every intersection (7 from hilldale to algoma for a total of over 2100 instances of an idling car) .. syncing the lights to reflect traffic flow creates only (roughly) 10 cars idling at each traffic light (or 70 instances).

This is the math traffic planners use when syncing lights. a perfect sync of all directions OBVIOUSLY doesn't exist, but there are "better than nothing" systems you seem to deny exist...
3/1/2013 3:44:11 PM
passlake says:
lights in big cities are synchronized according to expected traffic flows.

in the morning, lights leading into downtown are in sync and in the evening lights leaving town are synced.

it doesn't sync the lights for everyone, it syncs the lights for the majority of traffic.

in fact, this happens throughout most of the GTA, and works quite well.

it's that simple.
2/28/2013 7:59:55 PM
musicferret says:
Delbert, you're right out to lunch on this one. You make the lights on Arthur turn green just before you get to them. If you were to look at the whole street from above, you would see a line a green lights changing one by one towards the harbour as you came into town. They turn red behind at normal intervals. What does this mean? It means once you are on arthur heading into the south core that you would hit at most 1 red light.
Thats it. They are timed to change to match the average speed of traffic.

This is done all over the world, and most notably in Hamilton both one way and non one way streets. Its fantastic, and its been around for 30+ years. Thunder Bay wastes all their time 'greening' up a couple couriers or putting in bike lanes. The single largest environmental improvement we can make is synching Arthur, Red River, The Expressway and Fort William Road. Most cities our size have been doing this 20 years. But we want a multiplex.... sigh.
3/1/2013 12:50:31 AM
Delbert Grady says:
Another one who hasn't thought it through I see.

Look, if it turns green for you as you approach it, then how would it work for the opposite direction of traffic?

I thought I covered that in my example?

I guess Im right, nobody gives it much thought, they just bubble up nonsense instead.
3/1/2013 10:29:56 AM
Doug Meyers says:
It does not mean that no one will have to wait at a red light; it does mean that traffic will move more efficiently in that high volume traffic gets to move while lower volume waits a bit longer. Just crawl out of your hole and travel down to Duluth to see some good examples of how it is done.
3/1/2013 9:45:05 AM
sg says:
Delbert, sweetie, it's really possible. I'm not a traffic expert and don't know *how* it's done specifically but I know it's done. Hamilton has it. If you travel down Main St at the speed limit you can hit green lights from one end of the city to the other. So it goes to stand that whichever direction you're travelling on Main St, you would have green lights. Does that 'splain it?
3/1/2013 9:47:56 AM
conker2012 says:
Syncing traffic lights only works when you are trying to ease the flow in one direction only.
This is done by setting a delay in the time between when one light turns green until the next one turns green. This delay is equal to the time it takes for the average driver to pass from one intersection to another and it is synced with how long the lights turn green. For the typical two way traffic that exists in this city it is nearly impossible to do this.

With the exception of say red river/dawson road most traffic is basically flowing equally in both directions.

The only way to deal with the growing traffic loads is long term planning. We need a plan for overpasses on the harbour expressway. Not nessessarily to implement any time soon, but rather when the traffic loading justifies it we can make the changes before the property is no longer available.

Long term planning has been this cities thorn in our sides, but it is nice to see some planning with this council.
3/1/2013 10:13:01 AM
Delbert Grady says:
Theres nothing thats "progressive" about government trying to dictate what the private service industry is providing.

A free country allows for free markets. If theres a market, theres a supply. If there's no market creating an artificial supply is the tail wagging the dog.

Im ashamed that the good people of Thunder Bay are being forced to pay a salary for someone who comes up with ridiculous ideas such as this one.

When our budgets are exceedingly high and our councillors are telling us we have to cut snow removal services instead of communist ideals like these ones... we have a serious problem.

Remember folks, Communism or socialism is still communism and socialism even when people try to disguise it by calling it other names such as "progressive" and "forward thinking".

The municipal government has enough problems as it is without trying to tell the free market what to do so they can feel good about their ridiculous salarys.
2/28/2013 2:52:21 PM
passlake says:
Last I checked, posting a call for expressions of interest for green couriers is not communism. That is really all this article is about. "Anyone interested?" is literally the summary of the article. And if you missed it, the article is talking about a green courier to "work" (aka contracted out) for the corporation of the city of Thunder Bay delivering packages. If anything, this is a tender.

It's not even creating an artificial supply as you suggested because within a corporation as big and as widespread as a city, the demand already exists. The city currently employs at least 1 courier who drives around all day delivering stuff to different city departments..

You must know that the supply management division does more than ask for interest for "green" couriers. So, to suggest that we pay someone to come up with these ideas is ridiculous. these ideas aren't the normal part of his working day. He usually spends his day managing the equipment and supplies of the city, a big job.
2/28/2013 10:49:48 PM
Delbert Grady says:
It most certainly is attempting to create an artificial supply. If there was a demand for it, there would be a supply of it.

Instead we have one person doing it. If the need was greater, there would be more people doing it.

This is the city trying to social engineer the public and free markets. The city is there to serve its citizens, not tell them what to do.

Its not quite classical communism, but its certainly a Marxist approach.

Using tax dollars to try to socially engineer the public is not what a free country consists of.
3/1/2013 10:34:48 AM
passlake says:
how is this trying to create an artificial supply?

Do you know there's not a demand for it? I only said "at least 1", do you know that 2 or more isn't needed?

Where does it say the city is telling people to use green couriers?

How is this social engineering of free and public markets?

How is this a marxist approach?

May I remind you this is the corporation of the city of thunder bay gauging interest in (essentially) contracting out a "green" courier to conduct its internal affairs....
3/1/2013 3:35:58 PM
Tiredofit says:
I think we need to take a cue from our American friends and start electing people to these administrative positions. The city need to get its own house in order before they start dictating things like this. As I type this 3 city workers we looking at potholes on my street. Why 3????
2/28/2013 3:33:17 PM
ring of fire dude says:
They are just killing time (7 months)until they can jump back on their lawnmowers . Time to start laying off instead of having full-time seasonal workers who are also collecting pension and benefits .
2/28/2013 9:11:09 PM
blue says:
"significantly reduce the city’s carbon footprint". I would like to give the city a FOOTPRINT alright. When are they going to stop the insane spending of taxes in the persuit of GREEN.We have buses that have bodies made of aluminum powered by diesel engines that in theory should last a life time, but no let us change to Green buses. Let us put new green bus stop signs at all the stops that no one can see easily. As one previous story pointed out, pick up trucks belonging to the city with one man in them. City enviroment pick ups with again one man in them. Can't we go smaller to save our foot prints. Better yet put more city employee footprints on the pavement.
2/28/2013 3:36:43 PM
cocoanut says:
I'm so glad to see the city trying to offset the carbon footprint, it will be a great reduction after there new purchase of 27 new full sized vehicles that are currectly up for tender, thats right folks 27 new vehicles and a tax increase is needed this year!!
2/28/2013 5:46:41 PM
ruralmedic says:
what are these 27 new vehicles?

Are they replacing old ones that aren't as fuel efficient and more expensive to maintain?

Are they to replaces ones that have been damaged and/or vandalized in the past few years?

Are they an expansion to keep up with the urban sprawl's demand for services such as garbage, road work, animal control and sewer maintenance?

Are they to replace aging ambulances that have outlived their useful life and to expand service in an environment where call volumes are rapidly increasing?

Are they new police cars to deal with the crime we all complain about?

Or maybe, they are all (or most) of the above, including other reasons not listed above?? Nah.. couldn't be.
2/28/2013 10:55:47 PM
brooky says:
Why doesn't city council ride thier bikes to council meetings to set an example??
2/28/2013 7:09:42 PM
downtownie says:
If these bikes are running with us on the street more often or larger numbers has anyone thought about manditory licence, ownership and insurance. Bikes do run into vehicles and who pays for the dented fender if it is the cyclist fault?
2/28/2013 7:40:36 PM
infiniti says:
Two words - Tesla Motors.
2/28/2013 9:09:47 PM
peas08 says:
If they had to use public transit they could literally walk there faster. Fix our transit system please.
3/1/2013 7:47:04 AM
Bigtime says:
Gosh, I had no idea so many people here were engineers in Traffic Lighting! Once again, glad to know the usual suspects of tbnewswatch are (or think they are) important on the internet, but are the minority in real life. Arm chair politicians, shaking their canes, save it for the coffee shop gentlemen/ladies.
3/1/2013 8:13:34 AM
passlake says:
you don't need to be a engineer to understand how traffic lights work...

well, maybe you do, but I use this thing called "research"... allows me to become knowledgeable in several aspects of our everday lives, from taxes to traffic to legislation affecting me.. that way I can provide a relevant comment (unlike yours) about the subject matter at hand...
3/1/2013 11:19:59 AM
Bigtime says:
Let me explain something to you...This is Tbnewswatch, none of the comments on here (including mine) are relevant. I am glad it makes you and others feel better about yourself, even though it appears that our educational system has failed most on here.
3/1/2013 1:56:51 PM
joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
...hire the postal service to use the postmen to check the water readings & Union Gas meter readings while @ each house while out n about...may as well, I mean all can be done at once instead of numerous people popping over to read each seperatly!
3/1/2013 7:16:04 PM
tsb says:
Syncronized traffic lights are when every single traffic light on the street does the exact same thing. Using Arthur Street as an example, if it were synchronized, traffic on Arthur at May would get a green light at the exact same time as traffic on Arthur at the Expressway.

What he is describing is co-ordinated or cascading lights. They change their pattern to work in the advantage of commuters, but cause reverse-commuters to face almost every single red light. Thunder Bay already does this, to a degree, but when you analyze our arterial road layout, you realize it's a sort of warped grid that folds over itself in Port Arthur. Setting up our lights to work to the advantage of even half of drivers would be very difficult.

Even if you hit every single red, it never takes more than 30 minutes to get from point A to point B in this city. If you drive properly, you won't have to stop so much anyway.
3/1/2013 7:16:31 PM
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