Emerald Ash Borer Task Force
Patti Derkson RBC
Stride Orthopaedics & Footwear
United Way
Brand New You
Performance Kia
Nutrition House
News
Click here to see more
Subscribe
Community Calendar
Click here for full listings.
Poll
Should city council approve a plan to allow Thunder Bay voters to vote online or by phone in the next municipal election?



Total Votes: 236
View Results Past Polls

Market Research

Do you own your own home?
Who's Modo
User Submitted Photo Gallery
Submit Your Own Photos
2013-03-01 at 14:53

Fighting wind

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
Need Xtra Cash? Visit Xtra Cash!For payday advances and cheque cashing, there's no better option than XTRA CASH! Best rates, no holds, and instant Cash!Click here for full list of services

Chantelle Bryson is accusing Horizon Wind Inc. of using bully tactics in an attempt to force its application to build a wind farm on the Nor'Wester mountain range forward.

Meanwhile, Fort William First Nation Chief Peter Collins said he'll fight the project tooth-and-nail.

Bryson, a Thunder Bay lawyer, made her statement on Friday during a presentation to the Thunder Bay District Municipal League conference. Horizon filed a notice of application for judicial review against the Ontario Ministry of the Environment early last month.
In its notice of intent, the Toronto-based company accused the province of delaying the renewal energy application approval process, a step it needs to start building turbines.

Horizon has until Sept. 2, 2014 to have at least one turbine built, under terms agreed to with the City of Thunder Bay.

Bryson, representing herself, said she'd prefer the province take its time and get it right.

“Once it is deemed complete, the rest of the process is a foregone conclusion,” Bryson said.

“It is over. There’s no room to maneuver. Once it is deemed complete it is just borrowing without substance.”

Upon completion, the ministry will post the application for a period ranging from 30 to 60 days where people can then comment on the REA. Once the posting period ends, the ministry will make its final decision on the application.

Bryson added the application makes “scandalous allegations” against Fort William First Nation, which has voiced strong opposition against the project.

The province maintains Horizon has not properly consulted with Fort William First Nation, which is why the REA approval has not been granted.

Collins agreed, saying the band still has plenty of questions for the company before making a decision on the project.

“Our members were saying that we weren’t duly consulted,” he said.

“One of the things I always told Horizon and their representative is every meeting that they come to at the council level is not deemed as consultation to our members. We have a responsibility to all of our members and our organization so that they can hear firsthand about the impacts about the wind development in our territory.”

Collins said they are looking at obtaining intervenor status relating to the litigation suits against the MOE. This would allow all of the community’s concerns to be heard at a public forum.

Collins wasn’t sure why Horizon decided to file a litigation suit, but at the end of the day he said they are going to fight the project.
“Our community is going to take every step and every action to stop this wind farm from being developed,” he said.

In an email, Horizon Wind spokeswoman Kathleen MacKenzie said the company has always dealt directly with residents instead of going through the media.

“We respect Fort William First Nation and did not proceed with the Big Thunder Wind Farm until we had obtained a signed Memorandum of Understanding with the Band in 2007,” she said in the email.

“Over the course of the project's development we have consulted with Fort William First Nation.  As a result of these consultations, we moved our turbines further away from Loch Lomond lake, and conducted special studies which showed that the Big Thunder Wind Park would harm neither the Loch Lomond watershed nor the moose population in the area.  Horizon has always invited and continues to invite an open dialogue with FWFN now and through the life of the project.”

She added that she hopes that Horizon’s recent application for judicial review will resolve outstanding issues and allow the company’s project to move forward to everyone’s satisfaction.

 

Click here to submit a letter to the editor.
iCar

Click here to report a typo or error

Tbnewswatch.com(54)

Comments

We've improved our comment system.
tbay_nudist says:
I think everyone should just shut up and let them do what they are here to do..You'd have to be stupid for not letting the wind turbine project from goin threw....
3/1/2013 3:05:33 PM
vimeo says:
What was that phrase Forrest Gump used to say??
hmm, before calling us stupid, try working on your spelling.

3/1/2013 4:12:48 PM
fastball says:
Yeah...anywhere, but not in the rich folks' backyard.
3/1/2013 4:34:01 PM
Tiredofit says:
Ah, there's that myth again, we're all rich millionaires in South Neebing! Apparently someone neglected to explain that to my bank account. Because we have nice houses in a nice area doesn't mean everyone is rich. It was cheaper for me to build here. Now, because I don't want 540+ foot turbines sitting on top of a 600ft mountain in my front yard, and a 1000 meters is not that far away, trust me. That makes me a RICH NIMBY? What an odd world we live in.

No one is against Wind energy, the location is wrong for numerous reasons and the Green Energy Act is a very scary document which tramples your rights and in the long run cost us millions upon millions in energy we really don't need, if we do, why is OPG wanting to close the local generating station! Please explain that one.

3/1/2013 5:21:37 PM
tsb says:
The average household income in South Neebing is twice that of the average Thunder Bayer, and that's for an area with 4,000 people. My neighbourhood's average household income is little more than a quarter of yours.

Compared to the life that most Thunder Bayers are familiar with, and the needs that most Thunder Bayers have, many of the complaints and concerns from South Neebing do seem very trivial.
3/1/2013 7:00:31 PM
Neebing1414 says:
what about park dale? river terrace? We are not rich over here so get your facts straight before commenting
3/1/2013 7:47:04 PM
tsb says:
I didn't say you were rich. I said you were doing much better than most people in the city.

My household has just under the average for the city, and our main concerns are so far away from wind turbines that they might as well put them up. Won't affect my quality of life at all because I have real problems to worry about.

Yes, Parkdale and River Terrace are fairly well off, but South Neebing is, in general, wealthier. There are many people living in that area who are millionaires. Can't say the same for most of the city.
3/1/2013 11:32:33 PM
Baor says:
So pull up your socks. I just love how you pull nonsense out of thin air.
3/2/2013 10:18:47 PM
tiredofit says:
tsb, by all means, please share the link to the statistics that show this. I'm sure some are well off, but the vast majority of those I know are working stiffs who earn a decent income, but are in no way are they wealthy to the extreme that some try to suggest.

My wife and I make a decent living, we both went to school for 3-4 years, we continue to educate ourselves to advance.

Again,the point is, most, if not all are not against the technology, however take a look at Horizon's record, the way they've treated the city, the residents etc.. If you consider the recent photo opp the Boys & Girls club the end all to be all, the your truly blind to the true Horizon.
I've read their recent complaint filed against the MOE, it's full of crap and out right lies, makes horrible allegations against FWFN.

540ft turbines with wing span larger than a Boeing 747 do not belong on a 600ft mountain. The mountain and land will be forever destroyed. They do not belong in residential areas.
3/1/2013 8:00:33 PM
tsb says:
The numbers are from the 2006 Census. It was the last census to measure household income.

The "vast majority" of those you know might be "working stiffs", but the average household there is bringing in twice the city average. I didn't say they were wealthy, I just said they were doing better than the rest of us.

Horizon Wind is a shady company and even I don't think this project should go ahead at this point because of that, but I find it pretty ironic that the people who defiled a river valley beside majestic mountains are complaining about the wind turbines. Did you know that the city has plans to build over almost every acre of flat, dry land in that area? They want roads and houses all over the whole thing. Do you have no problem with that?

I bet you're glad Mount McKay ski hill closed. That wasn't just lanes crawling on a mountaintop, that was full on clearcutting. Bet you can't wait until Loch Lomond closes and it reverts back to nature.

Maybe we should expand the highway!!
3/1/2013 11:37:34 PM
vimeo says:
So, are you guys saying affluence should have bearing on where they go? How silly (and snobbish) is that?
3/2/2013 10:19:22 AM
tsb says:
Affluent people have more free time and money to fight things like this. For me, the most time I can devote to fighting for change in my city is posting on this website, but I might as well be debating with my cat.
3/2/2013 12:21:07 PM
Bigtime says:
And yet you still continue your useless rants. Why has this become about how much people in that area make? Who cares, they don't want wind turbines in their backyards, simple as that. I am glad you admit to the fact that your life revolves around tbnewswatch, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself.
3/4/2013 10:22:15 AM
ring of fire dude says:
I have to agree with Tiredofit on the location of the wind farm . Of all the empty land in this Province why do they have to set it up so close to a residential area ? Oh right , somebody on City Council made a sweetheart deal with Zwig .
3/1/2013 10:18:51 PM
aswanson says:
You got it man, there are lots of people who want this project here in Thunder Bay. It's not hard to see that this company is getting held up by a small group of people who just can't accept change for the good of the city and the people who live here.
3/1/2013 6:12:57 PM
vimeo says:
That's where you're wrong. Many people want wind projects to start. There's no reason...I mean NO REASON why they need to be in residential areas...rich or poor; it doesn't matter. We have a big, windy country. Why do we need them close to where we live? Shuniah got it right and there were no complaints.
Folks, it's all about money. They want to build it as cheap and as fast as they can so they can grab the subsidy and get out. Remember, we'll be stuck with the bill to clean them out when they go. They didn't put that in their website, did they.
3/2/2013 10:48:01 AM
vimeo says:
Well, well. Here we are three years later finally seeing the true colours of this company. It doesn't matter whether you support their project or not. It's become undeniably clear that this company could care less about our community. They threatened the city with a lawsuit and now they're up against the province.
The fact is they haven't followed the process and they're trying to bully their way through. Every successful project has gone through the proper process but they feel they're special (or rich).
They say they listen to their concerns but when the heat is on they're no where to be found. When things are going their way you see and hear them everywhere. Jut look at their facebook page and website. It's overflowing with fluff.
Best of luck Mr. Collins. You will be heard.
3/1/2013 3:22:21 PM
Tiredofit says:
Horzion needs to wake up and realize they haven't properly done their job. They made a total 70+ complaints against FWFN, most unfounded and some outright lies.
Hopefully the MOE will see it or what it is, then Horizon can find yet another reason to sue someone over this.
3/1/2013 3:59:08 PM
mercy mercy me says:
alternative energy is in our future, wind included, but i'm vindictive and for the devious ways of Horizon's business practices,i hope one way or another Horizon gets crushed like a bug
3/1/2013 5:07:07 PM
Gord says:
Good job Chantelle - this is a terrible project for Thunder Bay - the only people benefiting are the investors with Horizon. Big cash for them, horrible eyesore for us. Besides, they havent even started building yet, can you imagine the potential for lawsuits once they get underway.
3/1/2013 5:18:49 PM
treeclimber87 says:
FWFN was the one that invited Horizon to Thunder Bay. They support the smelter that is going to pollute the City but they are against the wind farm. What logic is there in that?
3/1/2013 5:53:52 PM
tiredofit says:
Treeclimber87, get your facts straight, the City invited them, then they signed a deal behind city councils back, broke numerous rules in the process etc... Shall I go on?

As for the smelter, the eviromental rules are so tough, these new smelters are far more friendly than those from years past. But that's another story that has nothing to do with this issue, so stick to the one at hand please.

Thanks for trying though!
3/1/2013 11:07:22 PM
aswanson says:
Don't you guys remember in 2011, Chief Collins went on television saying that he was going to negotiate with Horizon. This is just another negotiation tactic. He even signed an agreement with Horizon! Now these guys are backtracking and saying they haven't been consulted. Make up you mind and stop backtracking!


3/1/2013 6:05:11 PM
Tiredofit says:
I suggest you double check your facts there aswanson, FWFN have never signed an agreement with Horizon to build the wind park. You also need I check the process that they use. All members have an input on what happens, end of story.

This deal is far from done, Horizon also needs FWFNs support in order for the lease with city to go forward (I posted that information a few stories ago along with the official document info).

Even if they did get provincial approval, FWFN have made it clear they will no let it happen, they will have another Caledonia/Oka on their hands. You don't mess with their traditions or way of life. Only difference is there will be a lot of Thunder Bay residents standing next to them. Won't that look great on TV. But It won't get to that point I hope, because no one winds

It's not about money either as some suggest. Horizon can't buy their way out of this one. They'll just sue someone as usual, it's what they do best isn't it.
3/1/2013 10:59:23 PM
vimeo says:
Right. And, Horizon also started out by saying there were only going to be 8 turbines. That was when it was going to be in the back 40 of Big Thunder (remember the name?).
When they avoided doing their homework and reliazed they couldn't go their they picked Loch Lomond. Then they politely forgot to update us by saying that's phase one. Two and three plan to put 42 all over the place. That changes the whole ball game.
Once again, it's the sly deception of it all that has all of us on edge. There are a few good wind companies out there that are morally responsible and have put them out in barren, windy areas. This company could care less about us. If you don't believe me look at the lawsuits. They were are "friends" one moment, then our plaintiffs the next.
3/2/2013 10:53:12 AM
sky high says:
What we have to do is offer the people in that area a few bucks. That's what this is all about. Offer them a few bucks and we can get this thing done. Tell the lawyer to quit trying to get rich and offer the residents a few bucks. Lets get this thing done
3/1/2013 6:56:40 PM
Neebing1414 says:
I don't want a few bucks, I just don't want this company here.. end of story
3/3/2013 10:19:33 PM
tbaybaby says:
I want to be proud of the people who are representing our city, but all of this slander that is being thrown around about the company will just look bad on the people of Thunder Bay when the government realizes that they have been doing their job all along. There is so much information out there and the people who shout loudest are full of of nothing about misinformation. Last time I had a question about the project, I just sent Horizon an email and a couple of days later I got a clear answer back. I don't think there's any conspiracy here, just a bunch of people here who have nothing better to do but squawk.
3/1/2013 7:50:51 PM
kurt says:
i find it very hard understand how every one can be concerned about the animals and hunting ground where they want to put the turbines - yet they can put this



on fwfn no problem .. let alone with out consulting with fwfn members ( from what i was told )

3/1/2013 9:06:40 PM
Tiredofit says:
No one is challenging the technology, it's the location. The solar park was built in an existing industrial park. Your comparing apples to oranges.
3/1/2013 11:12:01 PM
tsb says:
That solar farm isn't on Fort William First Nation. It is on industrial land located in Thunder Bay, which is owned by Fort William First Nation as part of an agreement between the city and the reserve, which involved the city giving the reserve large areas of land for private development in exchange for dropping the quarter billion land claim on the city. Almost everything south of the Kam River from the swing bridge east, north of City Road, is part of the city of Thunder Bay, but owned by Fort William First Nation.

Private land ownership is illegal on Fort William First Nation, which severely limits economic potential. This is their alternative.

The recent land claim FWFN had involved the south Neebing area. Originally part of FWFN, the are where this article's protagonists live was taken from FWFN without compensation in the 1860s. Band leaders 150 years ago had a vision of becoming self sustainable farmers....
3/1/2013 11:42:35 PM
unionbay880 says:
But FWFN believe a chromite smelter will be fine for the traditional hunting grounds?
3/1/2013 10:10:26 PM
Gord says:
Kurt - its hard to imagine how you can relate these two - one is an amazing eyesore with potential health impacts and the other is invisible with no animal nor health impacts???? do your homework
3/1/2013 10:18:06 PM
shiho says:
Stay focussed on the news article
Its about the application for judicial review, the allegations it makes against FWFN, the irrelevant review process, and FWFN consultation (or lack of consultation).

Try reading the application for judicial review.

For those who think Hor answers questions readily, try asking for a copy of the application for judicial review and the corresponding support documents (which were to be filed within 30 days of the application).

THese should be easy to provide- a scanned copy will be at Hor's fingertips.

Then read it and see whether FWFN has reason to be concerned.

As far as process goes, the MOE has bent over backwards for this project- it has given so many breaks nad free passes and bent the rules in their favor its incredible Hor could try for a JR like this.
Consider transitional project status in 2009, no PDR open house, project limits, size, lines and location changing,and multiple trys at REA applications- just to name a few breaks
3/2/2013 9:23:14 AM
jimbob100 says:
Sorry for the few that are fighting tooth and nail to keep this project away all for the fact that they want to keep their hidden quad and hiking trails that are atop the range to themselves and brainwashing others to promote their cause by stating a load of false, incorrect facts



3/2/2013 9:35:45 AM
moi says:
LOL...the headline for this story.

I know quite a few people that spend their days.. "fighting wind".
3/2/2013 9:40:34 AM
fluffy says:
We can thank Big Daddy Dalton and his Green Energy Act for this fiasco.
3/2/2013 10:38:13 AM
Gord says:
kurt - apples and oranges - you cant see the solar farm from anywhere in the City; there is no potential health impacts from solar panels; solar panels do not kill birds and disrupt wildlife. That is why this project went ahead and is already built and this terrible turbine idea is floundering.
3/2/2013 11:18:41 AM
hounddog says:
There is no legitimate reason for a Wind Farm to be built where Horizon Wind wants to. There is alot of vacant land in this area far from any residential areas where logging roads have already been cleared. It is time we fight back and say enough, thanks to the current council and past mayor we are in this position.
3/2/2013 3:01:13 PM
AndrewWatts says:
If you guys really can't see any problems with wind and solar energy you haven't been paying attention!
Research Denmark, Germany, UK, Australia etc. Not just the glossy pro-wind stories, actual government reports.
Do any of you have any idea of the toxins and carcinogens that existing wind turbines and solar cells contain, which is already a recycling and disposal nightmare for future generations?
I challenge any singe one of you to produce a single environmentally friendly benefit from either wind or solar.
Horizon are only behaving totally in character for all wind energy companies, prepared to say and do anything to get their project approved. If you believe they care about your community in any way at all you are living in a fantasy world. Andrew Watts
3/2/2013 3:47:55 PM
codvx87 says:
Chantelle is hooot 9/10 buddy
3/2/2013 4:32:16 PM
barry medawin says:
Everyone forgets the obvious problem here... WIND! Those things are giant propellers, so they are going to make giant wind. Would you like to live in a place where the shingles are blowing right off your roof?!?
3/2/2013 5:13:18 PM
Neebing1414 says:
sadly you are mistaken.. wind turbines actually cause more resistance to the wind and slow it down.. the blades themselves do not create wind
3/3/2013 10:21:29 PM
Tom Clark says:
Wind turbines and horse and buggy technology and
There's a lot of naive and gullible people here
who need to do their homework about the realities
of wind turbines - try www.windconcernsontario.org and check the many links - another one is www.epaw.org which shows the world wide problems.
As Dr Alan Watts says
The wind Industry is based on greed,ignorance
and institutional deceit.It's propaganda rewards the greedy ,flatters the gullible ant exploits the well intentioned.
3/2/2013 5:40:20 PM
varga says:
The only reason Horizon wants to build thes eturbines os for the huge government kickbacks they will get for doing so. The only reason the NorWesters are up for grabs is becaus eit is a parcel of land that a group of entrepreneurs and the city thought would be a perfect sell for the project without consulting with the taxpayers in the area. To build windmills in an are athat is shown to have a demogrphic of affluence is just plain stupid! To destroy old growth forest to install "green" power is just plain stupid, to fight so hard for power we do not need is just plain stupid! We are surround by millions of square kilometers of forest, much of it clear cut already... why not spend some of this FIGHTING money on further R&D Horizon... if there was ever a company that deserves to lose its shirt on something like this it is you! I guess I will wish you luck in your efforts to win by convincing us that we are backwards rednecks that just don't understand... thanks for that!
3/3/2013 8:24:48 AM
dynamiter says:
Kurt - you are bang on - the towers are going into previously logged over areas and are actually quite beautiful.
3/3/2013 9:55:50 AM
tiredofit says:
I suggest you take a lot at the area, even Google Earth will show that it has never been a logged out area. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The area in question is very beautiful in deed, however if you place a 540ft Turbine on top of a 600ft mountain, it tends to lose it's beauty and appeal.
3/3/2013 2:02:41 PM
dynamiter says:
I am tired of you - tired of it - I have been there both on the ground and over in the air. It had been picked over for decades - not much recently - but none the less harvested - on the far side of the range where most of the towers are scheduled. And google earth as well as more recent satelite imagery shows it - so get over the IF I KEEP SAYING IT PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE THAT IT IS TRUE - mantra that you and others of your ilk have been putting forth on this subject. Finally - some believe wind towers are beautiful - some dont - but I believe that the majority of these towers are not visible from Highway 61 as they are on the other side of the mountain which makes it a moot point.
3/4/2013 5:25:42 PM
eagleless says:
I live on Lake Erie and we live right in the middle of a wind farm beint built as we speak. All of our homes are going to be effected by the green crap energy and everybody in Ontario will be. Our hydro rates will be the highest in north america by the end of this year and going up by 8% per year after that. We have lost and will lose a lot more companies in Ontario because of hight hydro costs. We don't need the extra hydro. because of losing 1.8 billion dollars since 2005 till last year on hydro that was sold at reduced rates, the liberals have made green energy the top priority on the grid. We still haven't even finished the new generater in the Niagara river which cost us around 7 billion and we are diverting water around the generators already there so wind gets first dibs on the grid. We pay at least 4 times for wind produced hydro than we do for the niagara river turbines. It is all about money. The green energy is going to kill our economy. That is for sure.
3/3/2013 12:20:14 PM
trevor99 says:
when all is said and done, the city of t.Bay is in this mess because the city council of the day, signed an agreement with Horizon wind, that leased city owned land to Horizon to build turbines.

The city did this for yearly lease payments of small amounts of money, they did it with very little if any public input, and they did it freely without any pressure or legislation forcing them to do it.

They created this mess for us, and most of those on council who did it are still there.

They are the people we need to thank for this disaster and we should remind them every day for what they have done to this city.
3/3/2013 12:43:52 PM
det john kimble says:
Bryson says "scandalous allegations" in Horizons Application.
Refering to Horizon stating they DID consult with FWFN.
Collins admits horizon did in fact do this,BUT then denies that meeting meant anything at all. So who represents FWFN? Band council, collins who?
Fighting tooth and nail, Sure wait till you need to retain a lawfirm and pay the retainer. So they sideline that with intervenor status. Which just delays things.
Its in the MOE's lap either way, i bet they have no direct policies refering to this issue... messy.
But is it ?
Horizon initially leased land from the City, not FWFN. This is key, because only a future expansion of the wind park was to go on FWFN property,a connecting power line / turbines ( i saw the plans good luck trying to see then online now)
So is this just a sideline story?
Notice way back FWFN was not in the fight the City was, it was only when horizon came to FWFN to ask there permission did this happen.
3/4/2013 9:45:21 AM
bttnk says:
It won't be long now and this will all be ancient history and we will all see these huge wind turbines generating clean energy every time we head to Duluth or for a drive in the country. Having had a chance to speak with the Horizon folks for almost an hour at a renewable energy conference, I have next to no doubt this project will proceed in due time.
3/4/2013 12:27:33 PM
bttnk says:
It won't be long now and this will all be ancient history and we will all see these huge wind turbines generating clean energy every time we head to Duluth or for a drive in the country. Having had a chance to speak with the Horizon folks for almost an hour at a renewable energy conference, I have next to no doubt this project will proceed in due time.
3/4/2013 12:40:42 PM
trevor99 says:
bttnk you may be correct and the future may hold many turbines to generate power, in this case, that is not the overriding issue for me.
We got a lousy deal, we get very little income for the blight that will be on our mountain range, we got very little for deconstruction costs and the deal was done with very little if any public input. This was a horrible decision by that council. That is different than the discussion about green energy which many support. It is like the Marina project. It was poorly done Sure, everyone wanted improvements to the marina, but the costs, the overruns, and the money and how it was spent should be a wake up call to everyone. Instead, that council again, is ducking for cover and they keep telling us how great it is. 5 million would have made it what it is. They spent 60. lets see in 10 years how people feel about giving away the best piece of property in town for virtually nothing. Now, it is spending whatever we can to justify a horrible decision
3/4/2013 1:02:29 PM
Comments for this story are semi-moderated. Read our comment guideline.

Add a new comment.
You must log in to add comments.
Create a new account
Forgot password?
Log In
 
 
© 2013 Dougall Media.