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2013-03-08 at 14:37

Building up: Superior Lofts to convert downtown eyesore into mix-use condo

By Jeff Labine, tbnewswatch.com
Understand exactly what repairs are being doneMINUTE MUFFLER for fair prices & a clear explanation of the work being performed. 677 Memorial Avenue.Click here for details

The key to a rejuvenated and successful downtown is having a place to live.

At least that’s Sean Serino’s theory.

A partner with Superior Lofts, Serino believes residential space will be one of the major factors to help rejuvenate the north core’s downtown. Superior Lofts took over the former Kilroy’s Bar and Grill on Cumberland Street and plans to transform the space into condominiums.

The top floor will be for nine loft-style residential condos while the bottom will be used for commercial space.

Last summer the company went into the former bar and looked at the existing structure. After figuring out what could be saved, the construction crews started an extensive demolition of the inside of the building.

Serino said they’re now starting from the ground up by working on the electrical and water.

“Taking these unique lots and urban infill is the key to the success of any city,” he said.

“Thunder Bay has a long history of sprawling out and using any vacant land we can. I think it’s time to turn it back and find a centre and move towards it and find something that we can all gravitate to.

“I think the waterfront is a good start. You need the foot traffic. You need the critical mass of residents.”

The price tag for the waterfront view and downtown access will be between $200,000 to $600,000.

Serino said the price isn’t that high given the development that’s happening in the city. Factor in the square footage being sold, and Serino believes the price suddenly becomes more reasonable.

He suspects tenants most interested in the new lofts would be young professionals or even young families.

He hopes to have the lofts ready for people to move into within two years.

“We’re going to try and bring back the building back to its original character as much as we can,” he said.

“There was a few problems with the structure but it wasn’t because of the original structure. It was more neglect over the years. The structure is in a good shape. Some areas were a bit rougher than others that goes without saying but we’re trying to keep what we can.”

Mayor Keith Hobbs said he was excited about the development.

The Port Arthur downtown has been designated the entertainment district as well as the site for the proposed event centre.

With major draws like Rib Fest and the Blues Fest, the mayor said it’s becoming a real attraction for people to visit.

He believes the area has already rebounded.

“It’s another piece of the transition of Thunder Bay,” Hobbs said. “This is another indication that we’re building our downtown cores. They’re out of my price range obviously but they’re nice additions to the downtown.”

He added that the city has to do work in the south side as well. Specifically, the mayor wants conditions on Simpson Street and Victoria Avenue addressed.

Waterfront District BIA chairwoman Suzan Cooper-Rochon believes the proposed residential space will help boost public security in the north core.

“The more people live in the downtown the more it creates a safer environment because you have more people walking around and looking out their windows,” she said.

“I think people can see within the last year and a half to two years we’ve had at least six new businesses come in. It’s already becoming more vibrant.”

Cooper-Rochon added that they’re now looking forward to Phase 3 of the proposed event centre, which still needs financial commitments from both the federal government and province.

Earlier this week, At-Large Coun. Larry Hebert voiced concerns that Prince Arthur’s Landing was too congested during the annual Summer in the Parks event because it fell on the same day that boaters held their races.

Hebert, a vocal advocate for the Innova Park site for the proposed event centre, suggested moving the concert event to another day because he received complaints that there weren’t enough places to park.

But while Hebert sees a problem, Cooper-Rochon sees opportunity. She said it’s a good sign when a downtown is busy.

“No parking is not a bad problem to have,” she said. “It means that its busy and vibrant down here. We have two municipal parking lots and if you were to check you’d probably see that they aren’t full. I know it is busy here at night but in any other bigger cities you go to you have to walk to go to places.”

 

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Comments

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ibrando says:
Nice artist's concept of the living room. Wow what a view. I'll take one. WAIT a minute. They forgot to photo-shop in the condos and hotel which will completely block the view. I want my money back!
3/8/2013 2:53:58 PM
advocate says:
You are right. These investors are going to spend tonnes of money investing in transforming a building that will have the worst view in the world. Makes complete sense.
3/8/2013 3:59:56 PM
chezhank says:
If this is the same Sean Serino...

"Sean is currently completing his role as construction administrator for Prince Arthur's Landing, and is now Project Architect for the design and construction of Thunder Bay's new 4-Star downtown waterfront hotel."

Did he overlook the sight lines for Superior Lofts???????
3/8/2013 6:02:45 PM
tsb says:
There is a gap between the two condominiums. This building will view the giant through that gap, so it will have an unobstructed view of the giant framed by condos.
3/9/2013 9:45:56 AM
tbayguy009 says:
I wouldn't call a line of sight from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock out the window ... a view. In my car I call the windshield posts, blindspots.

'unobstructed view of the giant framed by condos'

That statement is an oxymoron itself.

The keyboard is typing, but it doesn't know what it is saying.
3/12/2013 7:20:08 AM
advocate says:
Such an awesome idea. Love how this city is coming together. Was in Duluth recently and I see all of its strengths. We are definitely moving in that direction.

Please no one NIMBY or FOMB this up.
3/8/2013 2:55:23 PM
Me n My Opinion says:
Or the Friends Of Kilroy's Unite (you do the acronym)
3/8/2013 5:30:05 PM
Bigtime says:
HAHA I love it! Another "Friends of" group.
Well done sir.
3/9/2013 12:09:57 PM
Eastender says:
Why are we always comparing ourselves to Duluth or other cities, and justifying making similar mistakes . Why not use logic, common sense and good old horse sense when making decisions, and avoid making the same mistakes as other cities. Just because someone else screwed up doesn't mean you have to screw up too.
3/13/2013 12:45:29 AM
countrychick says:
The same should be done to all those buildings on simpson street... yes Iam well aware of the reputation in that area but I think it could change In the next few years especially with the courthouse being built it could become a really nice "up and coming" area.. just like in the big cities do this all the time!!
3/8/2013 3:37:16 PM
Lally says:
I like the idea of using already existing structures. I doubt he'll get too many young families with a $600,000 price tag, though. For a price like that, families want some land attached.
3/8/2013 4:25:47 PM
SomeGuy says:
I wouldn't say their target is families, most likely it's people without kids who are professionals looking for a modern loft, where location matters as opposed to things like a yard.
3/8/2013 5:42:04 PM
tbayguy009 says:
Ya.

Professionals don't 'do' yards.

Families with kids, hope for a yard. Yet have a hard time realizing their 'dream'.

The celebration of rich people being idolized by socitety needs to end.
3/12/2013 7:26:03 AM
ANVIL OF CROM says:
Well get out of line ibrando, theres many that will gladly take your spot!
Look at the facts, the former FWCI and Queen Elizabeth schools to name a few old spaces are being renovated, and rented. New condos like the one on Golf Links are going for a premium and existing condos (waverly)sell privately same day cash in hand for asking price ( as I can directly attest to!) all have waiting lists.
Not to mention the new hotels developing or expanding elsewhere.
See a trend?
People like serino dont lay down the kind of money they have on a whim.
Downtown PA is changing for the better, theres a feel of change in the air all over. .
No room for "negetive ned/nellies" like yourself.
3/8/2013 4:28:43 PM
Just sayin' says:
Wonderful concept, we should be lucky to have someone like Sean come in to apply his trade to downtown Thunder Bay. This first project is $200-600K, the next person that does this is only going to up the price tag as the area becomes more desireable to live in. People need to work, live, and play in our downtown.
3/8/2013 4:52:47 PM
armchair tom brady says:
I would love to see some high-rises go up around here. But some special interest group like "friends of Simpson street" would probably screw it up for us all.
3/8/2013 4:58:05 PM
keiths31 says:
Why exactly do we need high rises?
3/8/2013 6:34:20 PM
tsb says:
High rises bring in more revenue, and are taxed at a higher rate. Cities like Toronto and Ottawa have a very high percentage of high rises, and this translates as a decrease of the tax burden on single detached homes, which is why Toronto can afford to have a lower tax rate than us.

If Thunder Bay had more high density apartment blocks, we would enjoy higher revenue and a lower tax burden as well.
3/9/2013 9:47:51 AM
fastball says:
Why do we need high-rises?? Because it costs less to build UP than OUT. Because a 5-story apartment building can house a dozen or two families, without taking up the space on the ground that a dozen or two single-family homes would take up. Because the utilities are already there - water, hydro, streets, sewers, garbage pickup, buses....you're not running those for a dozen or two new homes.
That's why.

3/9/2013 10:32:51 AM
tsb says:
I live on Simpson Street. I often dream of this very thing happening here. If I had the money, this would be the best street to live on in town!

We aren't all negative, pessimistic past-dwellers in this city. We can't let those who are prevent us from setting goals, and reaching them!
3/8/2013 8:08:24 PM
barrows says:
I live up the hill in the bay algoma area and love the fact that I can walk downtown to the Soverign, Foundry, Madhouse and shop as well in the many boutiques etc. I also love the fact that I am smack down in the centre of the city and it takes me 5 min to the hospital, Superstore, etc
3/8/2013 6:54:12 PM
BetterThunderBay says:
This is great news! So much of Thunder Bay is poorly utilized land. This is a great example of positive development that transforms some of this wasted and already paved over space and puts it to productive use. Mixed use and a bit higher density is ideal for that area and I hope that this is just the first of many such projects.
3/8/2013 7:00:02 PM
hardrawkin says:
Finally someone with a vision in this decrepit run down town.
3/8/2013 8:17:32 PM
Big AL the Peoples pal says:
its good news ! young peeple like the loft style , yards are just work and maintenance.
3/8/2013 8:56:01 PM
commonsense says:
Interesting the story doesn't note that this fellow is a project architect and partner in the BrookMcIllroy firm, currently completing his role as construction Administrator for Prince Arthur's Landing, according to BrookMcIllroy's website.
It's seems that the middle of the 3 buildings planned for Prince Arthur's Landing, a condo, will be built directly across the road, pretty much wiping out the current view. Same as the condos will do to the existing condo building on Water St.
3/9/2013 12:56:29 AM
tsb says:
Actually, the view from the condos on Water and Pearl are only partially obstructed. Most will continue to have a clear view of the Sleeping Giant.

This condo will have an unobstructed view of the giant between the two condo buildings.
3/9/2013 9:50:27 AM
Chaos says:
Will they be getting $ from City for "downtown revitalization" program? Please ask, thanks.
3/9/2013 2:13:57 AM
tsb says:
CARP (Core Area Renewal Programme) only funds up to $15,000 and it must be paid back.
3/9/2013 9:54:25 AM
outsider9 says:
Nothing but a positive for the city and the waterfront area, great job. Negative people don't have to visit the area, stay away and enjoy 1955.
3/9/2013 8:33:04 AM
Jon Powers says:
countrychick:

"CourtHouse" Investment?

I doubt that anyone will be investing in the S-Side knowing that all the areas "Sex Offenders" and evey other criminal are going to visit their businesses.

To All Others:

This is what happends when the business community depends on your tax dollars to flip the bill for every thing they want.

-OLG RibFest,
-Bluesfest,
-Waterfront Park $82.5Million(Constuction costs)Plus $700,000.00 a year to run too.
-$110.Million Multi-Plex Plus $1.5Million a year to run.
-Waterfront BIA Well-Fare too.

When will we start to see the City Of Thunder Bay break even on their silly stupid investments.

Hey Waterfront BIA stop wasting all of the city's taxes on yourselves and start giving something back to the city rather than pan handling more and more money out of your business customers pockets.

Great Story!
tbnewswatch.com
3/9/2013 9:02:31 AM
fastball says:
Usually the offenders aren't "visiting". But what MAY happen is this - chances are all those people working in the new courthouse aren't bringing their own lunches. So now you've got potential for a couple of local restaurants to open up and make some money from the lunchtime crowd. It's not much..but it may be a start.
When will we see the city break even on their investments?? Maybe when we host a Brier or Scotties, or some other major sports tournaments. Maybe after a couple of national conventions. Maybe after a few concerts. Maybe after Thunder Bay turns into a place that can actually be a destination...rather than a place they fly over to get to Winnipeg or Toronto or other places.
It may take a little while - but I guarantee you that investing NOTHING into our city will garner EXACTLY the same results. As a previous poster intimated - TBay's a great place...if you like staying in 1955.
3/9/2013 12:46:39 PM
SomeGuy says:
Jon Powers I'm not sure you understand how a BIA works when it comes to how they are funded.

First off they don't waste all the city's taxes, a portion of the property taxes for buildings located within the BIA boundaries are given to the BIA.

Keep spinning your half truths, like the small minded person who is incapable of seeing a vision for this city.
3/9/2013 2:55:16 PM
hadenough says:
Hey Jon, if you don't like the City investing in making this a better place to live, grow and raise a family, perhaps you should move to someplace else.
Downtown Dorion or metropolis Upsala perhaps. Pretty sure those communities aren't wasting their "taxpayer" dollars on needless improvements, they're just happy to be able to keep the roads plowed
3/10/2013 9:49:20 AM
tbayguy009 says:
"wasting their "taxpayer" dollars on needless improvements"

Wow. And admission that childless, well to do 'professionals' need taxpayers dollars to prop up their artificial lifestyle.

And they sleep well at night, knowing they are just fooling eveyone.

At least people in Dorion or Upsala are honest, and hope for plowed roads. Recent snow storms revealed how bad their 'reaction' time is. A recent poll question highlighted public concern. That poll was created from complaints no less.

Big city types (which Thunder Bay isn't) need public money to creat a life acceptable to their standard? Really? Is that what HST, property tax, gasoline tax and income tax were created for? Building an appropriate environment for the professionals?

Too bad they can't pay for their life style on their own.

If Thunder Bay builts it, they will come. The new latest hope for Thunder Bay?

Who wants a city full of moochers anyway.

It just ain't right. (and I will proudly say that in redneck speak)
3/12/2013 4:19:17 PM
fastball says:
If you start changing the demographic from low-income to middle/higher income, you change a lot more than just the people. You replace poverty with prosperity, you replace the derelict with the modern, you replace boarded up windows with opened shops and restaurants, you replace with unemployed with working folks...all that stuff revitalizes an area and contributes to our tax base.
Yes, it may take time - but with free enterprise and capitalism being what they are - if one guy is having success and making money, other enterpreneurs will try to grab the same.
All we can do is hope that the City will be less balky that they used to be and greenlight some development down in that area.
3/9/2013 10:23:43 AM
oscarmyerweiner says:
So tell me what happened to Simpson Street?
3/9/2013 12:46:26 PM
tsb says:
Buildings last about 50 years before needing major repair work. What happened on Simpson Street is the end of that 50 year cycle coincided with the opening of Intercity Mall in the late 1950s, and the development of the Intercity Area in general as a shopping district. Years of city planning oriented to suburbs and cars instead of to downtown business followed that, further taking life away from neighbourhoods like Simpson Street.

In the 1980s, a misguided attempt to replicate Intercity in the downtown cores resulted in Victoriaville and Keskus. The former, in spite of a new four-lane road connecting Simpson Street to Arthur Street, isolated the eastern half of downtown Fort William and that led to its economic decline. The opening of SilverCity removing the area's cinemas didn't help.

The final nails in the coffin were the 1995-1996 Simpson Street rebuild, and the 2002 Simpson Street Bridge replacement, both of which deprived the street of traffic, and therefore customers.
3/10/2013 1:30:54 PM
Baor says:
Ummm......intercity mall is 30 yrs old and was not built in the 50s. Victoriaville mall was built before intercity mall (1978 I believe). Simpson street was a dump before the bridge was replaced and a high crime area as well. It still has a high volume of traffic since the bridge was rebuilt and it is still ..... A dump.
Silver city is bigger, cleaner, has better sound, better screen than any of the old theatres....a case of new IS better. I would say places like the notorious Royal Edward Arms, Odd Fellows Hall contribute to the decline of DT South far more than a new theatre ever did.
And finally, I also have to disagree with your 50 yr building cycle thing .... Take care of it and it will last. There are plenty of 100 yr old buildings here in very good shape. If you let it go then the slum lords move in.....
3/10/2013 10:52:16 PM
tsb says:
The first incarnation of Intercity Mall was a strip mall built in 1958. It was anchored by Simpson-Sears. County Fair Plaza was built in 1976 and Victoriaville in 1980. Intercity countered by rebuilding with a modern look in 1982. It expanded in 1996.

Simpson Street was the less savoury end of town for its entire existence. This place was always the poor area. Once people started fleeing to the suburbs and housing values in this area plummeted, that's when the slumlords moved in.

The 50 year cycle is part of the "take good care of it" thing. No matter how good you take care of it, an 85 year old boiler isn't going to be as efficient as a 10 year old model. Windows from the 1950s don't insulate as well. Telephone wiring from before the 1990s can't support high speed internet, and buildings from before the 1980s don't come with cable. There is a lot of cost in maintaining a building for its entire life cycle, and not everyone could afford it.
3/11/2013 9:12:27 PM
tbayguy009 says:
"Not everyone could afford to look after old buildings."

Then the city shouldn't have fixed up the old Eatons building or Vikki Ville to meet the requirements for that 'high tech job' market of certain telephone solicitation companies. (in old buildings)

If running modern cables through old walls is too expensive, why did the city throw $11 million at Vikki Ville (along with deferred taxes) to encourage minimum wage job creation?

Then to create a 'housing crisis' (for the ederly as well) the city destroys the McKellar and Port Arthur Gereral hospitols (which would have been good for long term care until another solution was realized) as well as evicting residents of the Inntowner.

The old Wallen building still stands and was 'almost' good enough for a R&D company (until the ponsie shceme fell apart and they pulled back to TO)

What's my point.

The city will fix up old stuff for companies, but will not maintain buildings for the public.

Is there a pattern here. Hmmmmm.
3/12/2013 8:16:28 PM
tsb says:
The city owns Victoriaville and the Whalen Building.

The city never owned McKellar Hospital. That building was owned by the Thunder Bay Regional Hospital.

The Inntowner was bought and demolished by the District Social Services Administration Board, a provincial arms-length agency funded primarily by the city, as it is the largest municipality in its service area.

The city fixed up the Whalen Building and Victoriaville because it owns them. When is Norm Staal going to fix up 300 Simpson Street??

A pattern indeed.
3/13/2013 8:56:41 PM
hoey says:
WoW, there are alot of babies commenting on this story, would you all like some tissue??
3/9/2013 1:57:38 PM
joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
...$600k to have a "water front view" for a few more months dosent sound like a selling feature....
from that building, that "water front view" will soon be the backside of another condo/hotel going up??
3/11/2013 10:42:05 AM
Chaos says:
tsb: 15k per unit so x 9 that is 135k. There is a grant also or loand payable over 10 years - so you still didn't answer my question did they apply for the loan/grant?
3/11/2013 11:46:09 AM
tsb says:
Did they apply? I don't know. Every city has programmes like this, so I imagine they would be used to the process.
3/11/2013 9:16:15 PM
Jon Powers says:
fastball:

"As a previous poster intimated - TBay's a great place...if you like staying in 1955"

If the City of Thunder Bay continues to operate it's "Former" downtowns as if 1970's becoming Thunder Bay didn't happen then thats all that you shall have.

Your Liberal City Hall has commited well over $250.Million.(Multi-plex) included over the next 100 years for the former Downtown.

When is it enough for this type of Well-Fare?

SomeGuy:

The Eye On The Street is funded by all city rate payers as well as the B.I.A.'s. Read your city budget again.

Bye the way.

Q: When will we see the Waterfront BIA Disolve after all of everyone's money is spent?

A: Hell No!

hadenough:

"Hey Jon, if you don't like the City investing in making this a better place to live, grow and raise a family, perhaps you should move to someplace else."

Keeping property taxes down it self grows an economy and pro family!

It's not the other way arround!

Great Story!
tbnewswatch.com
3/11/2013 3:27:06 PM
SomeGuy says:
No where did you mention the Eye in the Sky program. BIA's do a lot more than just participate in the Eye in the Sky program.
3/11/2013 6:26:32 PM
Jon Powers says:
SomeGuy:
"No where did you mention the Eye in the Sky program. BIA's do a lot more than just participate in the Eye in the Sky program"

This "Eye On The Street" program cost every home-owner in Thunder Bay to build and Operate;
$540,000.00 first year and $180,000.00 every year after that to operate.

So much for keeping taxes down!

You still haven't answered my question.

Q: When will the BIA's no longer exist?

A: Never! Let's face it with everyone elses' money flipping the bill they can live forever and ever!

Q: When will we see the ending of the "Business Gravey Well-Fare Train" Stop?

A: See above answer!

The BIA's have seen Billions yes Billions of your dollars from 1970 to today from all levels of governments.

So long as you and everyone else is paying for their mistakes they don't have to change or admit to making a mistake at all.



Great Story!
tbnewswatch.com
3/13/2013 2:01:42 PM
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