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2014-02-08 at 11:39

Next step

By Jamie Smith, tbnewswatch.com
PregnantStay alcohol free, eat healthy, attend prenatal classes & see your healthcare provider.www.mushkiki.com

Daycare is costing the city thousands of dollars a day and is expected to cost more this year.

A report heading to city council Monday night estimates that the city will lose around $3,250 everyday this year through its four child care centres. That's up from $2,750 last year.

The city operates around 15 per cent, or 382, of the 2,470 licensed spaces in Thunder Bay. The repot states that scheduling has put many families in need of care on waitlists in the city though. Irregular hours or days make it hard for those families to find spaces despite the amount that are out there.

Another report on child care recommends the city cut its Grace Remus Evening Program, a pilot launched in 2009 that ran the centre from 6:45 p.m. until 2 a.m. The program was looking to meet the needs of parents who work irregular hours, but its lack of use is expected to cost the city more than $91,000 this year.

Some councillors, like Coun. Ken Boshcoff and Coun. Rebecca Johnson have said the city should get out of the daycare business altogether. Coun. Iain Angus has disagreed. Mayor Keith Hobbs he's not in favour of getting out of the business at this time.

Also Monday, council is being asked to execute funding agreements on the proposed events centre. The city applied for matched $577,139 from FedNor and the Northern Ontario Heritage Fund Corporation for Phase 3 of the plan.

"Although a formal announcement has not been made public, administration is confident that the funding applications will be successful," the corporate report states.

Click here to submit a letter to the editor.

Click here to report a typo or error

Tbnewswatch.com(64)

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Comments

We've improved our comment system.
Kam River says:
"Council is being asked to execute funding agreements on the proposed events centre." according to the story.
This is crazy.
(1) No tenant
(2) No longer term lease
(3) This council is try to lock us into the multiplex come hell or high water.

If this group is re elected at the end of the next term they will be on council for 12 years.

12 years of wasting our money. Raise taxes that we can not afford.

They need to be stopped spending money on things that are not necessary.
2/8/2014 12:05:36 PM
Bigtime says:
IF this group is re-elected, it means that they received the majority of the public vote. Which means the majority of people are in favour of what the current city council is doing and spending money on (ex: Events Centre) Which means the majority of people in town...are not trolling/complaining/whining/cane shaking on tbnewswatch...which SHOULD in turn be a devastating dose of reality to those negative tbnewswatch regulars who seem to always think that they know whats best, however they fail to run for council, or make any sort of attempt at change. No, instead they rant and whine on tbnewswatch. I wish you a a personal "good game" in advance of your inevitable defeat.
2/8/2014 3:12:45 PM
Wolfie says:
Post of the year, Bigtime.

Thanks for saying what many of the casual readers of TBNewswatch who don't post much are thinking.
2/9/2014 10:55:35 AM
tbay99 says:
Bigtime you clearly do not know the first thing when it comes to politics. The sad reality the casual voter is more likely to vote for a familiar face or the politician who "promises everything" but never mentions how it will be paid for. Running a campaign on fiscal responsibility just is not good politics and likely would not win a seat even if it the RIGHT thing to do.

I do not "rant" on tbnewswatch expecting to change the city. I simply post to share an opinion and PERHAPS open the eyes of others that maybe the road this city council is taking us on is a dangerous one financially.
2/9/2014 12:47:31 PM
Eastender says:
Kam river-155 agrees
tbay99-116 agrees + 19 agrees
Cmpunk-132 agrees
Tiredofit-118 agrees


Bigtime-59 agrees
Wolfie-17 abrees
Skyhigh-10 agrees
Rbosch-59 agrees. All as of feb 9,@10:30 pm

Judging by the agrees, and this happens every time the event centre comes up, it certainly appears that there is plenty of opposition to this project. You people that believe its just a few "caneshakers" as you call them, must have your head in the sand, because, you are getting your arse kicked by those against the project.
There is an avalanche of opposition to this wanton disregard for tax money, and given a chance to vote on it in a plebiscite, it will go down in flames and you know it.




2/9/2014 10:42:36 PM
sd says:
This site and the number of agrees on a topic is the least accurate possible indicator of support for an issue.
People can agree with any post an unlimited number of times. I read as many if not more comments from people who support the initiative. If people oppose this so strongly they are free to opt for more effective methods than this site. That however, is not happening.
In addition in a city of around 100,000 people 500 people agreeing with these comments is a drop in the bucket, that is assuming it is 500 separate people and not some agreeing over and over again. This site would benefit from an option to disagree with comments in the same manner that you can agree. Or limiting the number of times a person can click on agree, although since it really is not a relative indicator of anything meaningful I do not blame them for wasting any time or energy creating such a system.
Your comment is irrelevant and empty.
2/10/2014 7:02:11 AM
Common Reprobate says:
you make the mistake of assuming all comments against this waste of public cash are actually posted here. this place is so far up city councils behind its not funny
2/10/2014 9:24:29 AM
fastball says:
Great, that's 6 opponents on a message board where you can "agree" as many times as you like. That's like taking the MLB All-Star voting results seriously.

2/10/2014 7:45:48 AM
conker2012 says:
Combined total of all agrees is less than 1% of the population...... so it means nothing.

Second thing is all TBnewswatch polls and comment agrees are easily manipulated by simply refreshing your IP, so anyone can boost their own opinion or an opinion that they agree with.

Finally the money is already put aside so there is not impact to your taxes in the future. Funny thing about investing in a growing economy, it generates more taxes on it's own. When it comes to the Feds and Province yes they are your tax dollars but based on how taxes are collected it adds up to less than a dollar per person.
2/10/2014 8:25:43 AM
AndersonSilvasLeg says:
You can do a lot less work just by refreshing the page and clicking agree over and over rather than waiting for your modem/router to cycle and reconnect.

Just thought I would point that out to anybody looking to pad their agrees.
2/10/2014 10:51:58 AM
ou812 says:
This tells me that there are a lot of dumb people in Thunder Bay!

Get over it people. We need this in Thunder Bay and we need it downtown!
2/10/2014 8:56:14 AM
tbay99 says:
Spend Spend Spend Mr.Hobbs and council alike! I am starting to feel for Rebecca Johnson she seems like one of the few on council actually willing to make NEEDED cuts and show SOME sense of fiscal responsibility.
2/8/2014 12:36:52 PM
cm punk says:
There are a lot of things that the city should get out of all together.
Hobbs and council really going to bury the people of thunder bay alive with taxes.

Why ram the event center into everybody's neck?
Good luck trying to convince the Harper government and provincially, there is no money.
2/8/2014 2:01:24 PM
sky high says:
I'm sorry that around a dozen of you whiners feel the events centre is being rammed into everyone's neck because the rest of us here in Thunder Bay, who want a better quality of life and a structure we can be proud of, are wearing this thing like a solid diamond necklace. The Feds and Provs will see who the city has partnered with and will rip those cheques with vigor! We're going to get this Events Centre and we're going to be happy, while you sit on your computer and whine about anything there is to whine about. Have fun getting old and resentful, Punk
2/9/2014 9:50:19 AM
Rbosch says:
Man! Folks are brutally wrong on the matter of the Event Centre. Kam River writes that there is no tenant, when there are 2 who have indicated they want to be there. Kam then goes on to say there are no long term leases, yet, the Phase 1, Phase 2 and now Phase 3 reports will lead to those long term leases. This step is just one more towards achieving the end picture, which could see us with a new Event Centre. If you do not follow those logical steps, you are doing us all a disservice. Also, if the Prov's. and Fed's. come through with the funding to assist in the project, would that not be a good indication that there will be funding at the major level in the futur? The city is moving towards having its 1/3 money commitment in place, if and when the plan goes forward. Please respect the process, even if you don't want the Event Centre! It has been stated time and again that the Centre will not be built without the full coimmitment from the Senior partners.
2/8/2014 2:57:29 PM
tiredofit says:
Your right, let's respect the process and that should include a plebiscite, plain and simple. There is such division in this city over this. There are lots of unanswered questions. What if the Feds don't give a dime, then what? How about the province, what if they don't. Will the city walk away or will they simply say, build it and we can raise taxes to get the rest?

The city states they will not build without the full commitment of the other partners.. I really find that hard to believe given the history and past actions of this council in place.

Sure I'd love to see this, but NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE TAX PAYERS. We have some of the highest taxes in the country, we are being nickelled and dimed by the city through various departments, enough already.
2/8/2014 5:56:06 PM
Baor says:
If there is such a division in this city over this project there would be a huge outcry...there isn't. There would be protests...there haven't been yet. There would be "stop the rink" adds in the paper...never seen one yet. There would attempts at legal injunctions or lawsuits....there are not.
The so called huge populace against the marina was nothing but hokum. ONE guy got arrested...ONE. For trespassing. That's less serious than speeding.

There was no hotel for the marina and never would be...there is one now. No one will ever pay for the "white elephant " condos...they are 2/3rds sold last count. The marina is a success now and in the making. Without a doubt.
The so called "white elephant " that a minor few are calling this centre, is in fact , the minor few themselves.
Reading some of these posts is like driving by a car crash.....you shouldn't look but you do ... Then don't really see anything worth seeing.
2/8/2014 9:39:07 PM
Enquirer says:
Very well put.

It is a shame that I have to keep reminding people to ignore the trolls on here. I know, it is very tempting to have a peak to see what particular flavour of paranoid conspiracy theorist they will be serving today, but it is not worth it.

They are here to troll and troll only, to make it look like public opinion is on their side by incessant "Agree" clicks and replying in agreement under their other user names.

That said, you are very much correct. If there is such mass opposition, where is this real opposition? Protests? Letter writing? Demonstrations? Mass political engagement to change the process? There is none. It is merely a handful of people who believe everyone else sees reality their way.

If there was such mass opposition to the events centre, I ask, "Where is it?". Show me where people old AND young are against this idea. No, you cannot point the the one guy behind his keyboard under his multiple user names either. I ask, where are the boots on the ground?
2/9/2014 11:07:52 AM
fastball says:
As I posted earlier - if the city gets a NO answer from the province/feds, and they decide to go ahead with the project anyways with local money (I can't see that happening in a million years, but for the sake of argument....) then I would support putting the question to the taxpayer.
The City has consistently stated that without funding from higher levels of gov't, that this proposal is on hold.
2/9/2014 10:27:55 AM
cm punk says:
What RBosch fails to understand is that this "spending " council will pursue this without the other monies.
They will say whatever in order to look good.
This council does not have its taxpayers interest at heart.
2/8/2014 3:57:32 PM
fastball says:
How many times has it been said that without any financial contribution by higher levels of government, that this project is on hold?
Do you honestly expect that the city will cough up the whole cash nut for this facility if they get a "no" from the prov/feds?
That won't happen...and if they were to go ahead and pay the whole shot, I'd expect them to put that kind of financial commitment to a citizen's vote. But if there's some kind of matching contribution from others, both private and gov't...I'm OK with the whole thing.
2/9/2014 10:21:16 AM
fastball says:
No...because driving the city and taxpayer into the ground is in their best interests, right?
Give your head a shake.
2/9/2014 11:10:34 PM
trips says:
to rod..every time the event centre gets mentioned you are right there defending this project ...to me it looks like you are afraid of the truth that tbay has never supported any of the hockey teams that have been in this city..step up and put your own money towards this white elephant
2/8/2014 4:22:38 PM
Neebing1414 says:
funny how there are roughly 1,500+ people at the LU thunder wolves games each night they play.. that shows support for a local hockey team.. come playoffs i bet it will be harder to get a ticket to the game with over 3,000 people attending the games.. so that being said there are people who support thunder bay hockey teams and your post is incorrect


Good try bud!
2/9/2014 1:03:32 PM
sd says:
I fully support the creation of this event center and trying to find a hockey team in addition to the university to play here. I also support the location. However, using stats like 1,500+ people at LU games and maybe 3,000 at playoffs really is not enough support to viably support a team of AHL quality. I want an AHL team here. But if it happens this town needs to step up and regularly attend games. If you build it they will come.
2/10/2014 9:54:48 AM
Norscaner says:
Enough already...... Let the people decide on the Events Centre Election Day. Make it simple....Events Centre. Yes or No I will bet we don't get the choice black and white come Election Day .
2/8/2014 5:55:33 PM
Eastender says:
This whole event centre/hockey rink, has a very bad smell to it. There seems to be a lot of resistance to this project, it is not a small minority as some on this site would like to believe. When the Chamber of Commerce tells the city they had better reign in their spending, that is just the tip of the ice berg, since the Chamber would normally be in agreement with major spending like the Event Centr/ Rink. When the chamber of Commerce raises concerns over city spending that is an indication that there is a lot more wrong with this cities financial structure than what meets the eye.
I smell a load of rotten fish coming from the area of Donald street
2/8/2014 9:45:14 PM
sky high says:
What you fail to comprehend is that the Events Centre has a very nice aroma to it. Perhaps your olfactory is a little clouded after the foul smell that engulfed your area of the city last week? The only resistance to the Events Centre are a handful of trolls in here that don't want anyone to be happy. Your 'proof' that there is a lot of resistance is the number of agrees a troll's comments get...but we all know what's going on here Eastie. You ent fooling anyone but yourself. The Chamber of Commerce has kissed and made up with city council and, much to your chagrin, are now working together with them to get this thing done. And just remember, when you and your small gang of cane shakers tried to shut down the marina project we womped you good...FOMP. I'll bet you're down at the marina feeding the ducks all summer. Can hardly wait to smell that puck drop :)
2/9/2014 9:36:39 AM
musicferret says:
The proof is the same as the proof that you are presenting that everyone wants this thing.

The fact is there appears to be a very large number of people on both sides; and when we are talking about such a gigantic amount of money, this needs to be brought to the people.

Simply relying on elected officials does not work, as we can plainly see in hobbs as he essentially went backwards on every last campaign promise.

Many communities have plebiscites on large issues like this, wanting to go directly to the people rather than relying on elected officials.

This is not cane shaking Sky High. This is a very large, very diverse (age, area of city, socioeconomic level) group of people who will NOT benefit from this thing, and would hate to see $106M ++++ going to something that will not change their lives to any great extent.
2/9/2014 12:55:18 PM
sky high says:
Nah you are way off. It is just a small number of unhappy trolls who don't want anyone else to enjoy themselves. And a plebiscite would be a waste of time and costly. Do you and your little club have the money to pay for the plebiscite? If so then I'm all for it. The laugh the rest of us will have when the results are in will be worth having to appease you. As for quashing it because you and others won't use the events centre...well I don't have kids yet I am more than happy to help pay for your kids education. I have never been a patient at a hospital or been to emerge or a walk in clinic, yet I have no problem paying for others when they smoke and get sick or have a sniffle and go for antibiotics. No problem helping them out. So quit whining about not using the events centre. Move if you don't want your taxes going towards it.
2/9/2014 4:55:58 PM
musicferret says:
Did you really call the plebiscite expensive? !?!? LOL! How about a hundred grand: add it directly to the ballot in the next municipal election!

And seriously: you realize you are suggesting we spend $106,000,000 + plus an additional $1,000,000 per year (minimum, we all know it will be higher) in perpetuity, and you're concerned about 100k? LOL You're hilarious!

And the issue here isn't that my family might not enjoy the events centre. Its cost/benefit. Thats a massive amount of money for what we get out of it, and there are NEEDS that must be taken care of first. Like roads, sewers, BED BUGS etc.

Go read you message above to those who are sleeping with bed bugs in city apartments. Tell them how $106 million is needed for some fun hockey watching and super great concerts.
2/10/2014 1:41:58 AM
Common Reprobate says:
the only people who are against a plebecsite are those who fear the results. im confident the majority will be aginst this moronic mess the city is trying to make.
2/10/2014 9:40:27 AM
Chaos says:
Today's paper front page reports an independent financial report confirming thunder bay city hall is failing its citizens and we are going deeper in debt. This confirms chamber report. City manager has every excuse except looking in the mirror or calling out council......shame on you!!

FYI tbnewswatch why not report about this?

Why are they approving $ for multiplex and art gallery in this budget without matching funds like hobbs promised!!!! More bs!!!
2/8/2014 10:33:06 PM
fluffy says:
I read that arcticle. Excellent. Its about time independent people are telling the city like it is. Them and their ridiculous spending.
2/9/2014 7:27:28 AM
SomeGuy says:
Please show us where they have funded the Art Gallery? Last time I heard it was in the very very early stages they haven't even picked a location yet and is no where near the stage where they need funding.

They are approving funds to proceed to the next stage which is to get funding from the provincial and federal government, not to fund building of the Events Centre.
2/9/2014 9:01:42 AM
Curious says:
I think people of Thunder Bay are tired of paying for babysitting services for people, as well as many other rediculous things we have to pay for. I supported myu family and paid for my kids babysitting services - why can't everyone else. If you want kids, you pay for them. People nowdays expect hard working folks to pay to support their services required.
2/8/2014 11:08:03 PM
taekat says:
I agree with the need for a referendum. It would definitely give closure on this issue - if you truly believe that the majority of Thunder Bay is in favour of an Events Centre then there is nothing to be afraid of as long as the city and the council is up front in the costs.

I lived in Abbotsford and they went through the exact same thing 10 years ago and held a referendum. The city voted in favour of the events centre and no one can complain despite the fact that it is costing the city millions of dollars every year.
2/9/2014 8:37:24 AM
fastball says:
I'm sure that if the Thunder Bay City Council was going to spend almost 90M dollars of its OWN money, like Abbotsford decided to do - that a referendum might be in order.
I don't think TBCC would even consider an amount that high as our contribution.
2/9/2014 1:18:28 PM
unheard says:
Daycare services provided by the city are not supposed to turn a profit,
if council is worried about losing money then they should scrap the event centre. Or maybe have subsidies as Quebec does cant beat 5 dollar a day daycare, just goes to show you who interests these people have in mind when spending our money. vote them out
2/9/2014 10:40:33 AM
TooShort says:
Forget the event center and everything else and fix all these horrible roads. You wont be able to drive across town to the even center with out smashing into pot holes and then needed realignment every time u go driving in this hole of a town !
2/9/2014 12:40:16 PM
p.o.ed taxpayer says:
Always interesting that anyone who raises concerns about the event center is either a cane shaker or a Troll (guess thats the new word). Sounds to me like the trolls are the few who are supporters/family members of the council/admin or some council members themselves....If you are so sure that the majority support the project then you shouldn't be concerned about a plebiscite...oh yeh I forgot we can't waste money on hearing the taxpayers opinion on spending 100 plus million of their money...
2/9/2014 1:20:07 PM
kdpsg says:
@ Baor and Enquirer.
While I would not normally comment on this discussion board posts, I have to take exception with your assumption. Most people I talk to, which are many, have severe reservations about this events center. While I personally like the idea of it – it needs to go to a plebiscite. I think there will be a vastly different result that YOU think if people are asked to “vote” their opinion in the privacy of Election Day.
Just because the masses are not out in “friends against ____” group does not mean people DO NOT WANT this events center. I think you will find the majority of the clear thinkers in the community are families, business people, seniors, etc, who do have common cents to know that this city is not anywhere near the financial shape to take on this type of project. Who are the three main employers in this city? Resolute, Bombardier and the city itself (excluding healthcare)… If I were a betting individual I would say the first two are not "solid". (con't)
2/9/2014 1:27:04 PM
kdpsg says:
(con't)

So – why not a simply worded plebiscite? Such as: Do you think the city should build the events center only if it can attract Provincial and Federal Funding – Yes/NO. And; Do you think the city should build the events center if it CANNOT attract sufficient Provincial and Federal Funding – YES/NO. And; Please chose where you feel is the best location for the events center (Marina, Innova, etc…).
Just to clarify, I am FOR the events center and FOR the marina site ONLY if the Provincial and Feds are footing MOST of the bill... So what do you and the rest of the city have to fear of a plebiscite? The cost of it, if it is $60K for example, is a small price to pay for making the right and supported decision.
2/9/2014 1:28:04 PM
Enquirer says:
You are working under the supposition that I am against a plebiscite; I at no time said in this thread or any others I was against a plebiscite. Can you point to where I said that I am against a plebiscite?

I also did not make any assumptions that most people were for the events centre either. Can you point to where I posted that most people were for it?

My entire post was on the fact that if there is indeed mass opposition as you pointed out (e.g. most people you talk to), why is assent to the idea absent from all political activity in this city?

As I pointed out, if there is indeed strong opposition, where is it? If these people are in fact wishing for a plebiscite to voice their opinion, why are they not consistently at city hall? Why are they not in downtown P.A. handing out information on the topic? Why are they not out in protest? I cannot point to one instance where I have seen (outside of the aforementioned few) where this has happened.
2/9/2014 4:40:03 PM
musicferret says:
Because every time someone like me, or so many others dare to raise their voices, they are instantly called cane shakers.

Thats why.

Its a rolling bandwagon filled with taxpayer money, and frankly, getting in the way and having insults hurled at you is not fun. Doesn't mean a large amount of people don't have issues with this project in its current form.

And seriously, would you expect someone against this to sit around downtown PA where everyone stands to win the jackpot if this thing goes through, and hand out pamphlets? Thats the problem. That area LOVES this! Its a free $106 million investment in the area.
Its the rest of the city that feels completely left out and unheard.
2/10/2014 1:47:18 AM
Enquirer says:
You have literally addressed none of the questions raised:

Can you point to where I posted that most people were for it?
Can you point to where I posted that most people were for it?
As I pointed out, if there is indeed strong opposition, where is it?

Until you choose to stick to the questions at hand, I am done with this particular posting and will focus on others.

In addition, I ask a new question:

Where did I call anyone a cane shaker?

You seem to be of the belief that I, and any one who has a varying opinion from yours, calls you a cane shaker. Show me where I have said this.

Similarly, if location is the crux of your argument, why is downtown FW void of any pamphlet hand outs? Why is there not mass opposition occurring weekly in FW? If this is indeed mass opposition from FW, I ask again, where has this opposition been? In any form? City hall protests? Information booths? Well organized, large groups? Simple. It is none existent.

Now go ahead and answer these questions.
2/10/2014 9:15:42 AM
ring of fire dude says:
The last thing Council and Administration wants is a plebiscite , that to them would mean the voters would come out of the woodwork to vote in full force , not just the usual voters who keep voting by name recognition . I challenge TBNewswatch to ask each Candidate where they stand on the Events Center and whether they support a plebiscite on the ballot .
2/9/2014 5:07:09 PM
Leith Dunick says:
We will, but it's a little premature right now. There are only 14 candidates registered and two more for mayor.

Tomorrow's poll question: Should a plebiscite be added to the municipal election ballot asking residents if the city should build an event centre?
2/9/2014 5:25:10 PM
Enquirer says:
Leith, may I propose that TBNewswatch invest time into updating the polling system used before you launch this poll?

We all know that the usual few will try to skew the poll results by changing IP addresses or deleting the cookies used to prevent multiple voting, perhaps bring in a new system that would require a few more hoops to jump through may be merited?

For a question that some believe is in need of an answer, wouldn't it be prudent to employ a voting system that say, requires registration and confirmation of registry by a moderator? One who may look at specs such as OS, browser, screen display resolution etc. so as to block multiple votes from one person consistently trying to vote?

This is of course ignoring the systematic problems of the poll here by limiting it to: those with Internet access, visit TBNewswatch, know of the poll, how to vote, etc., but I believe this may be a good start at ensuring unskewed results.
2/9/2014 5:51:17 PM
musicferret says:
It almost appears you are concerned it might not be a good way to actually check on public sentiment.

Geeze.... wonder if a real way of doing so exists....

OH WAIT: A PLEBISCITE
2/10/2014 1:48:44 AM
Enquirer says:
Because I know you are trolling under another one of your user names, I will merely use logic to show others you are just trolling for the sake of trolling:

The problem with leaving a poll open to those who will maliciously skew the results is, even if a systematically flawed polling system is used to assess public opinion, when the poll results inevitably show the opinion of those who skewed it, they will point to that poll as an 'indefinite' sign that a plebiscite is require and in not doing so would be 'just more fat cat heavy handedness from city hall'.

It sounds as though you are a bit worried you will not be able to vote multiple times if the voting system is revamped. Nervous?
2/10/2014 9:18:56 AM
sky high says:
Geez wish you hadn't given them advance warning of tomorrow's poll. I guarantee you the dozen or so who complain about everything council does (your words) will be calling all their friends and acquaintances and getting them to vote plebiscite on your poll. Then they'll say it's proof that there should be a plebiscite. The good news is that they'll all be so excited about tomorrow's poll that they won't sleep a wink tonight.
2/9/2014 5:56:00 PM
aces & eights says:
every poll conducted by all the media outlets in thunder bay have resulted in 85-90% of people want a plebiscite. It's just the idiots from the hobbs camp, administration, city council and the waterfront district bia who don't want a plebiscite.
2/9/2014 1:30:37 PM
Me n My Opinion says:
There should be no plebiscite. Everyone's chance to voice their opinion is coming in the next Municipal Election. The topic is WAAAAAAY to complicated to come down to one non-subjective yes or no question. If everybody had to pass a test on all of the information that is relevent to the issue, and fully understand all the finances around it, then maybe. There are about 100,000 people in the City, and of that 100,000, there are probably close to 100,000 different levels of understanding of the issue and the financing and how the financing would fit into the City's long term financial plan. So asking a question of a whole lot of uninformed or illinformed people to help shape our future as a city is just dumb.

I'm not referring to one side or the other here. This is everyone, myself included. There is a tiny handful of people in the City that are privy to the entire scope of information. The rest of us can put pressure on them to make sure they do it responsibly, if they do it.
2/9/2014 5:48:15 PM
Chaos says:
SomeGuy : 2014 budget has 1 million for art gallery plans to be drawn for waterfront location with no matching dollars!!!!

Those who keep saying the magic line "matching dollars" don't realize millions will be spent without .1 cent of matching $.
2/9/2014 6:05:39 PM
SomeGuy says:
They wouldn't have matching funds because they are not at the stage that requires matching funds.
2/9/2014 8:56:51 PM
ou812 says:
This tells me that there are a lot of dumb people in Thunder Bay!

Get over it people. We need this in Thunder Bay and we need it downtown!
2/10/2014 9:02:52 AM
Dave78 says:
There might be a reason that I'm not aware of but I can help but wonder how the city cannot be making money on running daycare centres. From my experience the demand for daycare far exceeds the supply.

If the city can't make money on a business that is in short supply and one that parents have no choice but to pay for, it makes me wonder if we are in over our heads trying to build this event centre.
2/10/2014 9:03:04 AM
Common Reprobate says:
the only way a successful business model cannot make money is to let government involve itself. that's why a new arena will do nothing but lose money every year. tell the city to fix the roads and when that's up to snuff then we can talk about hockey
2/10/2014 9:32:10 AM
fastball says:
Seriously - when's the last time the roads were "up to snuff"? They're NEVER up to snuff, and they never will be so.
It's a fact of life here - between the salt, the water, the frost heaves, the potholes, the endless cycle of freezing and thawing, and maybe just a smidge of contractor indifference - our roadworks crews are going full-bore every year.
Every time they put a new roadway in - they have to rip it up within 5 years and redo it.
If you waited for every last street to be fixed, you'd do nothing else.
2/10/2014 10:25:44 AM
truthseeker says:
When the city held their event center open houses the attendance was embarrassing usually around 130-150 people in attendance. 150 people out of 100,000 people who live in thunder bay. The hardest working thunder bay mayor of all time says 'everybody wants it'. More like the minority wants it.

From the article mayoral perspective by Leith dunick:

Mayor Keith Hobbs, like Peterson, said he wants the public to decide not only the location, but whether or not the project gets the go ahead to begin with.

Hobbs suggested an extensive phone survey or a plebiscite tied to the 2014 municipal election is his preferred ways to proceed.

Make good on your campaign promises for once keith! The people want a plebiscite!

2/10/2014 9:26:18 AM
joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
the arena will be the decline of this middle of no where town.

we may need it, but cant afford it.

logically, that means play with what you have, but city council loves spending the taxpayers money, so look forward to the new arena regardless of what the tax payers want cause its already being built in the minds of council.

the sadest thing about this arena will be when its family nite....

only the cops n the firefighters can afford to bring their entire family out cause im sure the tix to the events wont be $10 each!
2/10/2014 9:58:57 AM
sd says:
I do not use the parks in this town and therefore I do not want to pay taxes for other people in this town to have them provided to them. These I do not want to keep paying tax dollars for things that I personally do not support or use. I want a plebiscite held on this issue.
Note, that was extremely sarcastic.
Welcome to Canada, your tax dollars go to things you sometimes do not support or want. Don't like it. LEAVE
This event center is just like every other thing that our taxes support.
2/10/2014 10:02:07 AM
S Duncan says:
The parks we have were here before you were here. The parks that were not had opposition to them.

Do you not remember how people were not in favour of redeveloping marina park?

If you dont like Thunder Bay with its current FW Gardens then you leave. Youre the one who is obviously unhappy and desire the taxpayers to pay to entertain your simple mind.

Did you buy a house next to the train tracks and then complain about the noise too? You want everybody to cater to you.

Thats why government is not supposed to be in the entertainment or art business, those are subjective. If people want entertainment such as welfare hockey, then they should pay for it.

Why dont you ask your parents for some more money and you can build your own hockey rink and you can be a little entrepeneur with your own money instead of other peoples?

Its going to lose $1million every year. Perhaps you and others who dont like TBay can pay all the extra taxes yourselves to build this?

then youll see.
2/10/2014 11:58:26 AM
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