Tbnewswatch Local News
Wednesday July 1 2015
11:14 AM EDT
2014-03-11 at 20:14

Opposition mounts: Event centre plebiscite open house draws nearly 100

Attendees of Tuesday
Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com
Attendees of Tuesday's plebiscite open house at Mary J.L. Black Library make donations to the cause of stopping a proposed $106.1-million event centre from proceeding any further.
By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com

Give Keith Hobbs credit.

Thunder Bay’s mayor on Tuesday waded into an unfriendly crowd of event-centre opponents demanding council put the question of whether to proceed or not on the Oct. 27 municipal ballot.

Hobbs had few friends in the boisterous, mostly 50-plus crowd of about 100, who spilled out a large meeting room at the Mary J.L. Black Library, worried about escalating taxes and concerned about the choice of a downtown north core location favoured by council and city administration.

Jim McConnell said forget about location and told the audience to concentrate on stopping the estimated $106.1-million project dead in its tracks.

“Don’t get sucked into that,” he said.

“What you want to do is just (ask) yes or no on the whole thing. Do you want a convention centre or don’t you. Yes or no? That ends it or that starts it. Then the next question, if you say yes, then you go and decide where.”

One attendee, Terry Ciccarelli, said he fears it’s already a done deal and blamed administration for having an agenda all its own.

“The only way we’re going to compete with this is to start doing what the young people do who want this and start crowd-sourcing,” he said.

“I would suggest, that since there seems to be a reluctance on the part of the city to hold a plebiscite ... we could have posted on the (Concerned Taxpayers of Thunder Bay) web site a petition.”

CTTB's Ray Smith, a vocal opponent of the downtown location, organized the grassroots meeting, an attempt to urge council to vote to put it to a public vote whether to proceed any further.

Council last month announced it was ready to proceed with the $1.5 million Phase 3 study that would answer questions such as funding and produce a business plan.

Smith said it’s just not the right time to be considering burdening taxpayers with such a large project, with other infrastructure issues at hand.

He added it’s too big a project not to involve the public in a meaningful way. The city has held public open houses on the project, but that’s not the same as a vote, Smith said.

“We the taxpayer have had nothing,” he said. “We’ve been shut out. All we want is a vote on Oct. 27.”

Thirty-something Terry Lemieux said he represents the younger members of the community, a group he doesn’t think can afford to pay for a new event centre.

“We’re new homeowners. Our taxes keep skyrocketing. Water keeps going up. Hydro keeps going up. My wages aren’t going up at all. I can’t afford to go to anything that comes to the Community Auditorium right now. It’s too expensive. If it’s over $60 a ticket, say, I’m out. How are we going to pay for these tickets?” Lemieux said, referencing the city’s letter of intent reached with Winnipeg’s True North Sports and Entertainment and Thunder Bay Live that could see the NHL Jets’ American Hockey League franchise transfer to Thunder Bay if a new arena is built.

Hobbs, who sat in the hostile crowd for about 90 minutes, along with several council hopefuls and Coun. Joe Virdiramo, reiterated a stance he’s held for some time – that it’s too early to consider taking the project to a public vote.

“We have a feasibility study to do. We have a business plan to do. We have a parking study to do. We have to find out how much this is going to cost. It could come in under $106 million. And we’re looking at lowering that cost for sure,” Hobbs said.

The mayor admitted there’s a lot of misinformation floating around about the project, including it being tied to the waterfront hotel deal.

“I heard a lot of fear mongering just on the taxes,” he said, boasting that council kept the tax increase to 1.69 per cent.

For a plebiscite to be held in conjunction with the upcoming municipal election council would have to pass a bylaw by the end of April.
The question must be a yes or no answer. A standalone question could be asked down the road, at a cost between $200,000 and $300,000.

Hobbs said he is in favour of a scientific survey of 1,000 or more people at the appropriate time.

Concerned Taxpayers of Thunder Bay plan to hold a second open house on April 1 at the Da Vinci Centre. 

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We've improved our comment system.
caesarjbasquitti says:
In the 1996 or 98 election I suggested a convention hall.

The current multi-use facility includes a replacement arena for the Fort William Gardens, and a usage for entertainment as in touring groups, and facilities for conventions.

The Fort William Gardens is capable to handled the current hockey games, we seldom fill the facility.

The portion of the facility to house 'entertainment' presentations larger than those that fit into the Auditorium, will expand the draw from surrounding areas, for special events.

The greatest area of new business is the convention hall portion. Currently the city does not engage in this business, the Valhalla and the Airlane do and competing with them on this side of the city is questionable.

Conventions will draw new tourists from outside the city, hockey games do to a much lesser extent.

The structure they suggest is costly, duplication of what we have, and not needed right now, at such an expense, and the high taxes we have...or do we ?
3/15/2014 5:24:32 PM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
The litany of poor fiscal decisions will not attract new enterprise, and is forcing what little talent we have left, to split for more intelligent places.
3/13/2014 12:49:03 PM
mystified says:
@Toot Sweet
Wayne, S.Duncan, Pie Island and now toot Sweet you are starting to troll again with the name calling.

'Perhaps when you debt supporters are done calling people names you might be able to discuss this issue like adults?

or are you all just immature cowards?"
Practice what you preach as in the post above and quit the trolling and staying up all night clicking your own agree button.

3/13/2014 11:20:01 AM
moi says:
LOL...you forgot to include "Tim H" in that list of trolls, mystified.
3/16/2014 1:41:06 PM
signman says:
Unfortunately you people choose not to attend council meetings, ward meetings,
candidates meetings or public meetings.
For the betterment of the city they should get engaged. Not only with the debate over the proposed Event Centre and a possible plebiscite also there is a municipal election on Oct 27. Come on young people this is your city too.
3/12/2014 6:21:15 PM
TerryK says:
Opponents to this project are EXACTLY why our city is going nowhere fast. We need this project and we need it in the downtown core, right where other major centers put such facilities. Your argument is misguided at best. If you people spent as much energy on POSITIVE projects and maybe helping your fellow human beings as you do whining about EVERYTHING, our little city would be a much better place to live for everyone. Get over yourselves.
3/12/2014 5:00:56 PM
Big Al the Peoples Pal says:
so true TerryK a positive project with a very big positive pricetag!
3/14/2014 6:03:03 PM
TBay92 says:
Next time the Mayor wants to use the washroom I hope he consults with everyone in this city
3/12/2014 4:42:00 PM
dank says:
The next meeting will be at larger facility allowing for alot more people with different points of view. Im neither young or old but I keep hearing that the younger generation are in favor of this project yet the voter turnout at election time is always under 50%. Where are their voices then.
3/12/2014 4:08:34 PM
Dan dan says:
Supporters of the plebescite movement have complained that they have been unfairly characterized as "mostly seniors". But if we look at the photos of last night's meeting, we can clearly see that... oh. Never mind.

Thunder Bay needs this events centre. Those who oppose it seem to prefer that Thunder Bay just die out.
3/12/2014 2:20:37 PM
Toot Sweet says:
Keith Hobbs, Tim Commisso, Joe Virdiramo, Ken Boschoff etc.. are ALL SENIORS. They are old tired men who have made their way in life by leeching off taxpayers, today and always.

So are are you supporters still practicing ageism to push your debt ridden ideals as progress? It seems that age isn't on your side after all.

Perhaps when you debt supporters are done calling people names you might be able to discuss this issue like adults?

or are you all just immature cowards?
3/12/2014 6:21:33 PM
Jon Powers says:
john@otb :

"Support support support 100%!
Onward and upward Thunder Bay!
Progress Matters!"

Mr. John Susin President Of Opportunity Thunder Bay:

Your Group supported the Waterfront as progress and stated that those opposed to it did not know the facts.

What Hogwash!

Thunder Bay TaxPayers paid well over $84.Million($44.M FED/ONT+$39.5MCity$22M city plus interest to pay back for the loan) to build your new park.

And also will be paying $700,000.00 to operate it too.

Told to us after it was built.

This is nothing more than the race to "Sky-High" Taxes and debt.

Your group was against a Waterfront Plebiscite and now doesn't want one for the event centre either.

After all if the people get to vote where our money goes; Then the "Elected Councillors" become useless!

You were invited as well as all the "Pro"side and chose not to show up.

I call that being a coward.

See you in April 01, 2014 Meeting!

Stop supporting high taxes.

Great Story and Posts!
3/12/2014 1:19:08 PM
chezhank says:
On April 25, 2012 we read in the link below:
“Ken Boshcoff, a member of the present city council, however, said all things being equal, he’d choose the downtown north core as his preferred site, adding that in his long political career he’s never seen an issue this big with so little opposition.” (He should read this headline!)
Mayor Keith Hobbs, … said he wants the public to decide not only the location, but whether or not the project gets the go ahead to begin with. Hobbs suggested an extensive phone survey or a plebiscite tied to the 2014 municipal election is his preferred ways to proceed.” http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/205136/Mayoral-perspective
Deputations are being made Monday night at City Hall asking that the mayor and council put a plebiscite on the ballot for the Oct 27 Municipal election.
We cannot force council to put a question on the ballot but we can show them that the public would appreciate it, if they did. The only way we can show that the public would like a plebiscite on the ballot is being in council chambers Monday night, March 17 at 6:30 pm to show support for asking for one.
Those wishing to speak Monday night, must put in a written request at the city clerk’s office asking for a deputation by noon, this Thursday March 13.
3/12/2014 1:12:33 PM
bay of blunders says:
I am for the event centre and even though some things about the project can raise some curiosity, I am not going to let it make me a pessimist and judge everything about it and start inventing further reasons to oppose it just because the hype seems to make some people's boring lives more exciting.

It really amuses me to think if i had a photo of every person at that meeting saying they can't afford it then put their photo into the security face recognition software at the casino or at the one at the border and see the Percentage of them who were there flushing $ into the slots. We all live in a very hypocritical society and this would be one good place to start at to point the finger at the real problems. Selfishness, stupidity or just the pure lust of bloating non existing problems to feel your life is more exciting that it really is. These people opposing the arena, in most part, have very poor, something idiotic reasoning behind their opposition from listening to many.
3/12/2014 12:34:53 PM
Det John Kimble says:
Look in the Mirror man! Wow talk about idiotic reasoning!! You YOURSELF exhibit in your words "much Selfishness, stupidity and pure lust of bloating non existing problems to feel your life is more exciting"
It is NOT amusing to see YOU finger pointing attacking seniors, who are long time resident taxpayers! People who by YOUR account are all casino goers. Using face recognition software? LOL. WOW, what kind of control freakism is that.
The attacking is unnecessary , quit it, its childish and belongs only in a narrow minded society. People have A RIGHT, THE RIGHT to assemble and talk about any issue they want be they a casino goer , a senior, or youth.
Mr. and I use that term loosely you are out of touch with reality !
3/16/2014 2:42:53 PM
For all the PRO CENTRE people here is a question.
Are you still for this centre of we get NO PROVINCIAL or FEDERAL FUNDING ??
Its very odd that the AHL team says they are moving here when it seems THIS issue is STILL IN DOUBT.
Also its concerning that hobbs said a parkade study is needed, when according to the City's own PLAN , the parkade price has already been stated.
Not to mention 15 million in private funding is not yet established ( as outlined on the cities strategic plan)
I am not against this centre, but it seems the messaging here is obviously confusing and the garden path is in front of us with the city oh so willing to lead us down it!
3/12/2014 12:18:44 PM
fastball says:
IN answer to your question, Kimble...if the city gets NO additional funding from any other sources, and decided to go all-in with the whole 100-odd million (despite a previous statement that this matter would be put on the back burner if there was no other financial support forthcoming) then yes, I would support a plebiscite on the matter.
There's no way an additional parkade is getting built - not with another parkade already there a mere 3 blocks away. I could see some abandoned properties in the area getting bought up and converted into little lots, though.
3/12/2014 1:04:33 PM
Pandora says:
It Is obvious by the number of posting we need to have a plebiscite.
We deserve democracy.

This City and Council has proven on numerous occasions they can not manage large budgets. Imagine, the millions in overruns . This is the scariest part of the whole business.
Never mind the wrong location...We can not afford this at this time.
When fools rush in.
We need a new council, we need a council that directs Administration, not an Administration that is running the show...I still can not believe we are still hiring more City staff!
3/12/2014 12:14:20 PM
fastball says:
"We deserve democracy."
You have democracy - it's called voting for your city leaders. If you don't like the way they're going, you vote 'em out again next election. That's democracy.
What's the point of electing leaders if you undermine them by advocating a citizens' vote on every single issue that comes before them?
3/12/2014 4:13:44 PM
working_man says:
@ "Rbosch" Very well put!
Kind of funny to see Ray Smith walking around with a Winnipeg Jets jackets on. Didn't Winnipeg choose to construct their new arena in the middle of a totally rundown area of town?? Much to the dismay and dislike of the "opposition"? If you look at that area now, seems to be proof that arenas in the cores obviously contribute to enhancement and revitalization. By the way, 3700 people at the gardens on Saturday night to watch Thunderwolves, Where the heck did everybody park??
3/12/2014 11:31:18 AM
Common cents says:
The City of Winnipeg does not have a big puddle beside it, and built in the CENTER of the city so can draw in from a 360 degrees.
3/12/2014 9:30:18 PM
hounddog says:
It amazes me the "mob mentality" of those for an Event Centre and how you feel you have the right to insult and intimidate those that feel maybe it's not necessary. We as taxpayers should all have a say in how our money is being used. The fact that you are seeing the Baby Boomers and older individuals being the ones highlighted as the only ones against such an expensive project is only meant to convince the public that for the most part we are all in favor. That is incorrect , I know of many younger citizens that also are not for an Event Centre of this magnitude/cost. Alot of people are living pay check to pay check right now, increased taxes for something that you all know but are afraid to admit won't be well attended after the first year seems foolish. If you all are so convinced we need one then what is the harm in having a plebiscite? why the need to bully and intimidate those that have asked for one?
3/12/2014 11:26:24 AM
Rbosch says:
First of all, I am 65 and I am all for the Event Centre, if the monies are in place and the facts show that it is feasible. The location issue has been settled, so let's get on with the next phase, which will show proper designs, a business plan and a firmer estimate of the costs.
It is disappointing to see the attacks on our Senior citizens in a number of posts above, but then again, it is disappointing to see the rabble rousers Mr. Smith and Henry Wojak leading the session. Mr. Smith was all for an Event Centre if it was to be located at Innova Park and once that failed, he has moved on to wanting to stop it altogether.
Please, let's all step back, allow the process of Phase 3 go ahead and then, once all the facts are known, perhaps a plebiscite MIGHT be in order, if sufficient support is shown for one. To demand one now, before all the facts are known is foolish and a waste of time as well.
Let's get all the facts in place, review same, and then make KNOWLEDGEABLE decisions.
3/12/2014 10:43:54 AM
progress now says:
I agree that there appears to be an attempt to drive a generational wedge in the community to advance the event centre cause. It is bad politics, it is deplorable and should not be tolerated.

I am also aware of the notion that the location issue has been settled. From my perspective, in a democracy, the way you do things is at least as important as what you do. Right or wrong, the decision making process just doesn't have "street cred" in the community on this one. The issue bubbles up in the form of a referendum on the event centre, but it is, in my view, just part of a much larger malaise respecting the powerlessness people feel in this community.

Again, just my view...
3/12/2014 8:40:46 PM
Common cents says:
Ask Mr. Leblanc where he would build it if it was his own money being put up!

Plebisite on Location!
3/12/2014 9:34:19 PM
signman says:
Plan to attend the next Concerned Taxpayers of Thunder Bay open house and meeting April 1 at the DaVinci Centre. (Marco Polo room)
Meeting at 7 pm
Open house 5:30 and voting continues.
Have your say, VOICE YOUR OPINION!
3/12/2014 10:19:14 AM
yqt says:
In other news.....

After the Multiplex meeting, 99 people met just outside the doors of Mary J.L. Black Library to discuss how to revitalize the Simpson St business district (for the umpteenth time). One person was there to object, citing funds should be direct towards the Fort William Gardens instead. The unidentified man said, "it's still in new condition, but we need to have a proactive approach to maintaining the building so it never needs to be torn down".
What a great day for NEWS!!!!
3/12/2014 10:17:41 AM
ring of fire dude says:
And in other news :
We still have to pay for the other half of Marina Condo Park that has yet to be built and developed . Where's that money coming from ???
3/12/2014 2:19:57 PM
Kam River says:
I am ashamed that some of my generation has turn this into an attack against our seniors.
When in fact anyone with a family know that they can not afford to build this Multiplex let alone the over a million dollars to keep it running each year.
Presently we pay each year $750,000 to keep the doors open on the Auditorium.
A vote for Hobbs and company means this will be forced through.
3/12/2014 9:53:42 AM
Grammy says:
I think that the city should seriously have the plebiscite vote on the next election in September, this will be one way of getting out a higher vote turnout, there seems to be a lot of jargon going on about the old cronies etc I bet half the people on here with the big mouth pieces did not even bother to turn out to vote 4 years ago. So come on put your money where your mouth is. As I recall last campaign this was not a big issue the wind farm was and all that got us was a big legal bill and total provincial embarrassment. I am a mid-young person, I always exercise my right to vote, and will continue to do so and totally support a vote on this issue which I do not agree we need a city run event centre leave it to the private sector and collect the tax base or don't collect the tax base but don't burden it on the city taxpayers. I would rather have my taxes go to the existing infrastructure that we already have and do need to retain the history and integrity of this city
3/12/2014 9:51:08 AM
northfirst says:
just a little history on opposing things: 2001 Ray Smith & Co vigourously opposed fee increases at the city owned golf courses - recommended not only by city admin but a golfer committee - and council of the day bowed to that pressure. a rate increase that would have put the courses in the black and set the stage for future financial health. guess who opposed closing Municipal 12 years later? Yes the same fellow leading the angry sheep on the Event Centre. just saying.
oh by the way a ticket to an AHL game in St.Johns is currently $21-$32, not bad for top drawer hockey
3/12/2014 9:13:00 AM
bttnk says:
0.0009% of the population, mostly over the age of 50, showed up to rant and rave about a facility they don't want built because most of them are past the point in which they can make significant use of it. The "if it doesn't benefit me" or "isn't done my way" crowd that has crippled this city for decades is trying desperately to do it again. Fortunately, we now have a Mayor and City Council with a spine that isn't going to be persuaded by an extreme minority.
3/12/2014 9:08:43 AM
westfortforever says:
Is this the respect we show the senior comunity in This city, name calling(cane shakers), told to get out of dark ages ect. I was brought up to respect our elders they have a say after all they helped build this city.I am not a Senior Citizen just a person that still respects them. I would like an event-centre but there needs to be more public taxpayer input not just rush it ahead because the developers were told it would be built. Why is our Mayor so afraid of putting it to a vote.
3/12/2014 8:54:52 AM
fastball says:
C'mon, Leith - you can write a more accurate headline that that.
Barely 100 people showing up to voice their opposition in a city of 100,000 is NOT mounting opposition. It's a miniscule percentage of the population who are exercising their right to voice their opposition at a city proposal - which may, or many not, ever come to fruition.
How many times did the Mayor say that they are still in the fact-finding stages? It'll be a half-decade before the first shovel of dirt ever gets dug.
But to say opposition is "mounting" is misleading. When we start getting THOUSANDS of people opposed - then we'll talk about "mounting".
3/12/2014 8:53:43 AM
Dockboy says:
Hobb's would like a scientific survey of about 1000 people. Hand picked by him no doubt.
3/12/2014 8:37:28 AM
working_man says:
100 people in attendance?? that's it? WOW!
I thought the sky was falling!!
I applaud those that did attend, good for you to be involved, but have a look around people, im sure you've all seen each other before. Whether its at the nearest Tim Horton's, where most of the daily Government bashing takes place, or maybe at the last "town hall meeting" for whatever cause was the treat of the week.
3/12/2014 8:37:17 AM
nvjgu says:
I predict this centre is going to tank, we can't support an OHL hockey team in the middle of no where. I drove past where it's going to be built today and the road is a right off. I have never seen the roads this bad. Even Cumberland where they paved it last year, it's all cracked already. I don't want an event's center, I want better roads to drive on, one that don't wreck my car.
3/12/2014 7:27:39 AM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
Ad Hominum attacks are annoying, and reveal an immature mind. Anything else older people like that you want to get rid of? When you're sick and dying, I'm sure that they' ll find a 25 year old surgeon to stitch you up, so you' ll be happy. They have no other ammo but to run people down...all you baby diaper-wearers are pathetic.
3/12/2014 7:17:55 AM
tsb says:
Obviously, only people above the age of 50 deserve to have any say in the future of this city. I feel like I am living in the wrong place. This is no city for young people.
3/12/2014 7:10:26 AM
Enquirer says:
But of course, tsb!!!!1111 Surely anyone under the age of 50 is completely uneducated and is part of that 'Gimme' generation!!! Ah yes, those people over 50 are the blood and strength this city needs to move forward.

I know that in 50 years, these 50+ year olds now will be out and about, smiling, knowing their decision to squash development was all for the better.

1960 was over half a century ago. It is time we leave those ideas back in that era.

Some here argue that taxation will drive the youth out of the city; let me flip that around, stagnation and a refusal for development will drive the youth from this city. I am sorry to say, but low taxes is merely 1 minute piece to the puzzle of where I would select to live.

As a young professional, I agree with tsb. If development continues to stagnate because of a vocal minority, you will not retain youth. When the tax base invariably shrinks due to low city immigration, these people I am sure will find something else to blame.
3/12/2014 9:54:35 AM
Eastender says:
Your rationale is about as logical as tryimg to fill up the ocean by dumping sand in it. You cannot spend, and tax your way into prosperity. It has nothing to do with 50, 60, or 20, or 30 year olds. Its just that wisdom does come with age, believe it or not. You too may aquire some eventualy.

There is only one thing that drives progress, and its not spending on hockey and rock concerts. Progress is driven by industry, meaningful employment, not call centres and McJobs. First you attract business, and industry, then you build playgrounds where the people can play and spend their earnings. Not the other way around.
3/12/2014 10:19:34 AM
Enquirer says:
I needn't ask what generation you come from, as you have answered that for me already.

As per wisdom, allow me to share some with you. Industry today encompasses more than what that word meant in days of old. Thunder Bay is largely becoming, and marketing itself, as a knowledge economy, attracting professionals in areas not seen in this city previously.

The issue is, knowledge economies are a global phenomenon. No one person is tied to one city when working in these industries in large part due to technological advances. Given that, and the choice to live essentially abroad anywhere in Canada and still participate in work, what draws the young to Thunder Bay? Without any development, that answer is quite simple: nothing.

Your generation is creating a catch 22; alienate the youth of today, you will have no tax base to support you and your peers tomorrow. There is no denying that. You will have today, but no future. Perhaps seeing this city die is your ultimate goal?
3/12/2014 10:35:34 AM
ring of fire dude says:
Methadone clinics , wine shelters , robberies , assaults , murders , panhandlers , no industry for work , I would guess for those reasons the youth are leaving(with their parents blessing), not because of stagnation .
3/12/2014 2:14:08 PM
Tbaylifer 1 says:
In the 20 years that I have owned my home my taxes have almost doubled. This with no attention to the infrastructure needs. Now with the move toward catching up on these needs and this proposed events centre, I believe my taxes will double in the next 20 years. I also believe that the youth are unable to understand this as I have seen first hand a young person at a cash register having to use a calculator for simple mathematical problems.
3/12/2014 6:21:25 AM
fastball says:
Yes, my taxes have probably almost doubled since 1995. But I'm making at least 30 percent more in wages than I did 20 years ago, just to put all things into perspective.
3/12/2014 2:26:58 PM
Rob20 says:
The mayor is not being truthful. It's easy to tell by listening to his comments. He said the parking study needs to be done. Didn't they tell us at 200 spot parking garage plus the street parking in the that area would be sufficient already and that they determined that? I'm pretty sure they did. And if you want a new parking study Mr. Mayor, I'm doing it for you for free, there's insufficient parking, anyone with eyes and a brain in their head can tell that. And another point that no one mentions is the fact that if they put it there they are going to put it on top of an existing parking lot that is utilized by most of the business people in the area park for work. So there's another hundred plus cars going to be looking for spots in that area every single weekday if not on weekends as well.
3/12/2014 5:56:08 AM
dynamiter says:
Will somebody answer this question. T B Hydro has a big distribution center and building at the corner of Water and Camelot streets. It will cost millions of dollars to move this thing out of the way. It is as large as the one on Golf Links near central or Walsh Street near St Pats. Is this cost factored into the cost of this project or has TB Hydro's boss just been told to put it into his budget and move it. Come on somebody answer this question pullease. Maybe Mr Bentz or Giertuga who sit on the Board can answer this.
3/12/2014 3:02:48 AM
fastball says:
Wasn't that substation addressed in the City's plan? If memory serves me, the Court Street substation was scheduled for removal in the next few years anyways.
From what I understand, the city and Hydro are merely speeding up the timetable and dividing the cost of the demolition.
3/12/2014 7:40:04 AM
dynamiter says:
Come on man, really. You are probably correct in the planning thing. But was it really needed or just identified that it was in the way for this development? Thereforen it was identified to be done by city administration at great but hidden cost to city taxpayers ( TB Hydro sends excess funds back to the city to help offset our tax base). I do not see any of these substations being totally torn down and moved to new sites anywhere anytime - they get added on to, upgraded or new ones built in new sections of town. It is a total misspending and hiding of taxpayers money and it is really big bucks that could be better spent changing out hydro poles or putting services into new subdivisions.
3/12/2014 11:00:54 AM
john@otb says:
Support support support 100%!
Onward and upward Thunder Bay!
Progress Matters!
3/12/2014 2:12:14 AM
reese says:
Old people watch hockey so they should not object.The younger generation is in to UFC
Georges St Pierre has been voted Canadas most popular athelete many times
You never see an empty sdeat in Montreal or Las Vegas
I believe the future leader of Canada has MMA experience

3/12/2014 1:35:35 AM
Tems says:
Toot sweet, There are more pictures from the meeting on twitter, of course that's assuming you didn't just learn how to use a computer and know what twitter is.

Get your head out of the dark ages, Thunder Bay is on the way up and were all leaving you behind.
3/12/2014 12:57:58 AM
Toot Sweet says:
Id like to see more of the photos taken from this event.

or did the editor just hone in on the 2 oldest people in the place to justify his/her position that was taken up in the story?

how about updating the story with some more photos so we can see for ourselves?
3/12/2014 12:13:54 AM
fastball says:
I followed the meeting on Twitter...along with the photos that were taken there.
Without a word of exaggeration - of the 50 or so people that were in the room, I counted perhaps half a dozen that were younger than retirement age.
3/12/2014 9:36:01 AM
tbaycat says:
Hmmm. The article says 100 people but you say only 50? I think we now know your level of mathematical skills. You apparently do not have enough fingers and toes to keep up! And you want the rest of us to think you’re some kind of genius …. LOL!
3/13/2014 3:30:48 AM
fastball says:
Um...the room at MJLB has a capacity of about 50-60 people, tops. They had two sessions because not all the people could fit in the room at the same time.
So, using my mathematical skills and all my fingers and toes - 2 sessions times about 50 people equals....GOSH, about a hundred!!!
Seriously - don't you feel the teensiest bit embarrassed now?
3/13/2014 11:11:41 AM
Mrbusinessman says:
Reignmaker, big concerts don't come to Thunder Bay because there are no facilities equiped to handle them. The gardens is a very old hockey barn with no acoustics what so ever.

Hockey doesn't sell out very often because the best game around is a university team, hardly an AHL team. When Winnipeg had the AHL moose they averaged 7000 per game.. Couldn't fill the MTS centre ! In comes a better show ...the jets ... Sold out for three years in advance!

If Thunder Bay doesn't have the large disposable incomes anymore who is buying the $300,00 to $400,000 houses being built or the $50,000 trucks driving around ( and there are plenty of them in this town). Who are all the people with disposable incomes from Thunder Bay filling those direct westjet & sunwing flights every week from here to Mexico & the Caribbean ..

I think you may be a little mistaken, Thunder Bay is growing even if you don't like it!
3/12/2014 12:01:36 AM
musicferret says:
Govt. employees are buying those houses, and even then, are buying at the max of what they can afford. So ask yourself these questions
1) What happens when either the Feds or Province shut the tax $ taps that have been propping us up for the last decade?
2) What happens when interest rates rise?

Scary thing is that the govt. tap shutoff is likely starting after the next provincial election (scariest is Hudak gets in), and interest rates will likely start rising in the next year to come.

Use the business training you say you have: what happens when interest rates rise and real wages drop?

3/12/2014 12:11:01 AM
ring of fire dude says:
Who are all the ones with disposable income ? Judging from the other news items I'd say they are either social workers , gov't employees , health care workers or are working in the oil patch .
3/12/2014 12:21:33 AM
Reignmaker says:
That argument has a few flaws.

1. The acoustics have nothing to do with the lack of concerts coming here. If it were the reason, why do we get some high profile concerts and repeats? We have lost several concerts over the last few years due to poor ticket sales.Also lose out due to it not being attractive to stop on the way to another venue.
2.We don't sell out often when the tickets are $11,prices that are well over double will not entice anymore because it's better hockey. You go on to compare the Moose to the Jets, which are hardly the same thing.
3.ridiculous house prices and people buying trucks mean nothing when they are bought through financing. A person can get a mortgage for $200,000 who makes $50,000 a year. So yes they have a nicer expensive home. This also means that they have no other income to support other stuff constantly.

Remember this, we used to be able to support five full malls with our disposable income. Now we can't. Why could we support this venue anymore?
3/12/2014 8:41:23 AM
lappeboy says:
Really? I cant believe this stuff^^^^ all of it. Has anybody ever heard of forward progress? I am tired of the old croneys running this town.
3/11/2014 11:58:51 PM
reese says:
A lot of room is required for a real event center just to accomodate the haulers for the Bull riders,Monster trucks
Not including space for the dirt you must bring in for these events
Otherwise the children will still have to travel to see Gravedigger or PBR supercross and all other events that fill the house
3/11/2014 11:43:10 PM
YQT says:
Laughable, absolutely laughable !!! The cover photo tells the WHOLE story. Really, they're taking collections, that's even more funny!! What exactly is the collection for? To cover the cost of a couple dozen Tim Hortons donuts and coffee at the Da Vinci meeting. Ya know, just to keep everyone from falling asleep.
I really wish I knew about this meeting.... better than buying tickets to Yuk Yuks.

3/11/2014 11:42:44 PM
progress now says:
I was at this meeting. It is fair to say you know nothing of what you say. Do you often comment on things of a nature you have little or no familiarity with?

I don't mind, I just want to know.
3/12/2014 12:41:31 AM
tbaycat says:
Go ahead and sneer YQT. At least the people who are against this boondoggle are willing to put up their HARD EARNED CASH to fight this. What are your people doing? Oh right. The most you guys are willing to do is put up sarcastic and derogatory comments on this board……. Thumbs up to your heroic commitment
3/13/2014 3:05:12 AM
jaxoon says:
I'm curious about the photo. Did the Signman pass his hat for a collection? Or did they have a 50/50 draw?
3/11/2014 11:21:25 PM
Mrbusinessman says:
Music ferret you are correct I own a business that will see increased sales if this project is completed. In fact we have projected that this facility will require us to add 5 to 8 new employees, that means new jobs to local people that can pay taxes. That also means that my business will have new customers spending more money in Thunder Bay, that can only be good for our city. You see if I have more customers then I'm spending more $ at my LOCAL suppliers, which means they may have to hire more staff ... It's called economic spin off and it happens with this type of project. It means more $$ for this city. It means more exposure for this city... Why can't we host the brier or a monster truck show .. Remember there are plenty of people in the small towns near here that will come here instead of Toronto or Winnipeg ... Places like Terrace Bay, Geraldton, ignace, etc... Btw I have a degree business and I'm not just using information from unscientific media polls like Mr Ray Smith!!
3/11/2014 11:20:16 PM
musicferret says:
1) We can host the events you mention. However that doesn't keep this place filled year round to the level they are suggesting would be required for it to ONLY lose $1m per year.
2) Yes economic spinoff exists. However it will be greatly limited by a FINITE LEVEL OF DISPOSABLE INCOME. People only have so much to spend on recreation. That doesn't increase just because there is a new place to spend it. The only place to get additional money from is new customers (tourists) from out of town. Good luck getting that. Our catchment population is TINY. The only larger cities anywhere near us are Duluth and Kenora, and both have far larger and more vibrant cities nearby that will take most of their $.

Final reason its a bad idea: Opportunity cost. What could we do with $106m?

I also have a business degree, work in the entertainment industry, have booked shows and have seen cities crippled financially by projects like this.

3/11/2014 11:52:24 PM
moi says:
Good comments Musicferret...and I agree 100%.
With so many mills closing down in the last few years, the days of having extra dollars to spend on entertainment venues are long gone. So many of us had taken a hit when jobs were lost,and we've haven't recouped our losses to this day.Most families I know, can't afford anything more than one or two "fun" trips out of town anymore.And when we do spend a couple dollars traveling someplace near..trust me, it aint Thunder Bay!
3/15/2014 5:23:28 PM
tiredofbull$ says:
Why don't you, along with some of your friends that think that this is such a great idea get together and come up with the money and build it yourselves? Also if this is going to require you to add 5 to 8 new employees, what would be their hourly wage, would it be enough for these new employees to buy a house, pay their taxes and be able to afford to go to these events, or will it be more minimum wage jobs, where you cannot afford to do any of the things that I listed. And since you think the majority is for this, why don't you list the name of your business, maybe it will bring you increased business already? Again, if you have a degree in business, and this will create economic spin off as you say to you and other businesses, why don't you business people build it, and collect the money at the door and pay all of the bills. I would love to see a race track in Thunder Bay, but you don't see me crying for the city and the taxpayers to build me one.
3/12/2014 1:13:13 AM
Eastender says:
Pretty slick trick if you can pull it off. Get tax dollars to invest, gain a profit, pay no dividends. Where did you go to school, Rippoff U?
3/12/2014 9:54:45 AM
Reignmaker says:
Everyone saying people against this are more stuck in the last than the "old" people. We no longer live in a city that has people with large disposable incomes to spend on events. We can't for the most part afford the shows in the ec.
Big concerts don't come here because we are a hinterland venue. Our hockey doesn't sell out the current arena more that a handful of times a year. The ec is not needed so why are we building it?
3/11/2014 11:19:56 PM
Conker2012 says:
Hockey doesn't sell out because it is bush league hockey. LU is just undrafted OHL dropouts looking to get a teaching degree, they are also using the same gimmicks at the games that were used when the flyers were still playing in the 90s. I DON'T CARE ABOUT A $20 GIFT CARD TO RENCO FOODS, GET LESS PRIZES BUT MAKE THEM MORE VALUABLE

AHL is the second highest level of hockey in N/A. All the players are either drafted or qualified NHL players in development. There is a big difference in the quality of play.
3/12/2014 4:55:05 PM
Toot Sweet says:
What methods did the writer of this story use to determine the age of those citizens in attendance?

what significance does the age of the attendees have on whether this project should move forward at all?

Is this a thinly veiled approach by the editors here to divide the citizens into groups so one can be attacked based on age rather than merit? (like we can obviously see in the story and the comments thus far)

Why do the editors here deem a division among citizens a worthy angle to pursue in their story writing?

are you per chance biased in your position regardless of your honourable duty to report the news, not create it?
3/11/2014 10:54:46 PM
lake superior guy says:
I wasn't surprised when I saw the picture accompanying this story or read that this meeting was mostly attended by seniors. There is a small fraction of this cities population who are against this project (which I support) who would rather be stuck in some 50's or 60's time period instead of moving ahead like the forward thinking city that we could be. Onward and upward Mr Mayor. For years the line was "Why can't we have something like Duluth has in Canal Park" and when someone works to bring a similar project to fruition, all we hear is complaints. This 52 year old can't wait to attend concerts and events in this new facility.
3/11/2014 10:42:06 PM
tbaycat says:
@lake superior guy

Excuse me but where in the article did you read that “this meeting was mostly attended by seniors”? I read that the people who attended were “mostly 50-plus”. At what age do YOU consider a person a senior? 50? 60? 90? You stated that you are 52. So after reviewing your statement and then comparing it to what was written in the article, I can only deduce that you are one of those horrible “cane shakers” who should not be allowed to have a say or an opinion anymore!!!!

(At least that's what people like Rock49, Fastball , sky high, cane shaker and apparently even YOU say)

PS. Has anyone else noticed how our local photographers love to take pictures of the oldest people in the crowd but always seem to conveniently miss the young people who are standing right behind them?
3/13/2014 1:17:36 AM
ou812 says:
Well said MRbusinessman!

I am 40 and pay property taxes. I along with many others are more than willing to pay a little more in taxes if it means joining the 21st century and getting this event centre downtown. My taxes may go up what... $100.00 a year???
3/11/2014 10:21:07 PM
Shane Caker says:
I agree, but the old timers in this town would rather blow their pensions in the casino rather than see some top class entertainment in a top of the line facility.
3/11/2014 10:38:23 PM
tbaycat says:
Wow! Nice generalization. In my experience, there are more “old timers” in this city focusing on keeping food on their tables, than there are “old timers” blowing their money at the casino. Unless that is, you are classifying 45 to 55 year olds as “old timers”? Then that would peg your age at between 15 and 30 and would account for your derogatory screen name and your childish and selfish attitude.
3/12/2014 8:55:45 PM
conker2012 says:
Your taxes don't go up every year from projects like this, your taxes go up every year because new suburban type development does not pay for all the services required to support them. Did you know council is planning on spending 2.8 million dollars to rebuild a wider road for a couple of hundred homes. This expansion will double the amount of snow removal required, will double maintenance costs and will provide no financial, time saving or quality of life improvement to anyone. They are also planning a brand new road into this area that will cost tens of million to build, and thousands to the snow removal budget, millions to the infrastructure deficit and all for what? so a couple of people can get home 2 minutes faster. If you really want to know how our council it failing us may i suggest a bit of reading?


Your hundred dollar increase is going to pay for the roads, sewers and water lines for new homes
3/11/2014 10:57:27 PM
windigo says:
I find it incredible that this council closes Municipal golf course to save $100,000.00 a year, but thinks nothing of spending 1.5 million dollars on a study. A hockey rink, OK. A convention centre, who is going to come. As has been often pointed out, ther was going to be a hundred buses a day coming to that ridiculous casino
3/11/2014 10:10:36 PM
passlake says:
that's my thought too.

what's the point of the convention center side of this building?

don't we have an entire CLE grounds (including the golf dome), numerous hotels, halls and Fort William Historical Park to host conventions, meetings and events? Are we not just creating more competition for local facilities? Are these other places so busy that we need more space for events?

Personally, I wish they would just plan to build a good size arena. One that could be big enough to host significant hockey, curling, music and other sporting events. 6000 seats? 8000? 10,000? I don't know.
3/11/2014 10:30:09 PM
Mrbusinessman says:
So many misguided people... This is a project that will help this little city of ours move forward and finally become a modern city... We can start to hold major conventions, sporting events, concerts, that so many of us are forced to travel to Winnipeg, Minneapolis,Toronto, Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie to see because we don't have facilities here to support these events. These events will generate tax $$ from people using hotels, restaurants & other tourist sites here. This is a major project aimed at improving our city and help it grow. Please people get your heads out of the dark ages and start realizing this is a very positive project that will help this city grow!
3/11/2014 10:01:40 PM
musicferret says:
Mr Businessman, you might be correct that it could be a catalyst for the community;
If we weren't in the middle of nowhere.

People are closer to Winnipeg, Sudbury, Minneapolis, Toronto etc. and will spend their money there.
Why on earth would they come to Thunder Bay!? They won't! Any acts we get will already be playing larger cities nearby, and tourists will choose those centres.

I can understand why you would be confused by our location though, because as a 'businessman' you might stand to gain from the giant $106 million dollar tax dump near your store/restaurant/business. Assuming thats all it costs.... think hospital overruns.
3/11/2014 10:16:07 PM
sky high says:
Middle of nowhere? If that was true we wouldn't have an airport, university, college, shipping port, etc. Nunavut, Iqaluit and Baffin Island are in the middle of nowhere...I think you better go back to geography 101 there Mister CaneShaker
3/11/2014 10:26:53 PM
musicferret says:
We are in the middle of nowhere. Just draw a 3 hour drive circle around each large population centre and you will find that our basic catchment population is minuscule. Plus, the only two larger cities that we could possibly draw from (Duluth and Kenora) are both actually closer to a much larger centre. (Winnipeg and Minneapolis) So why on earth would those people chose to come here?

CANE SHAKER? I'm barely over 30!
When I talk geography, its in relation to the events centre and its potential for actually drawing people. From a business case standpoint it is a sure failure due to lack of potential customers to fill it on a regular basis, which would be required for it to 'only' lose the $1m per year they are estimating, not to mention the $106m waste to build it.

Sorry you took my 1 sentence out of context and failed to read the rest of it. Please read it again.
3/11/2014 11:47:34 PM
Toot Sweet says:
calling people "cane shakers" is just an immature attempt to squash vocal opposition to this, or any other matter.

its the work of children who seem to think if they tell others to shut up that they will just go away and allow them to tear up in hopes they get whatever they wanted. It might of worked on their parents but it doesn't work in the big world.

the more mature among us are quite aware that this city is not anywhere near financially in control of itself to be able to afford another unnecessary tax burden.

so let the children shout all the names they want, it only further serves to undermine their position. They seek to build themselves up by tearing others down.

it might work on the playground, but this issue is for the adults to decide, not the children.

that's why we don't like kids vote. they're too stupid.
3/12/2014 12:30:40 AM
sky high says:
You're emotional and you're confused. You're grasping at straws, but you feel as if you're always drawing the shortest one. You and your gang of pothole enthusiasts are the same ones who said no one would want a condo on the waterfront because there weren't enough people here with enough money to pay the price....so let's keep the marina as a place where we feed the ducks and read books in a library-like atmosphere. Well....the rest is history...and after our multiplex is built you will be looking to the next big project to whine about. Gives you something to do, anyway
3/12/2014 9:35:50 AM
fastball says:
We're the biggest stop between Toronto and Winnipeg. We're a skip north of Duluth and Minneapolis. Why would you think that acts would decline to stop over here? It's a logical stop - provided there was a venue suitable to host events.
Why is it that anybody who looks at any potential benefits of such a facility is automatically branded as someone who has a personal stake or something to gain?
3/11/2014 10:40:30 PM
ring of fire dude says:
Since we are the biggest stop between Winnipeg and Toronto as you claim , why hasn't any big name acts stopped in our city ?
3/11/2014 11:36:46 PM
fastball says:
I guess you missed out on the whole "provided there was a suitable venue".
The major concert acts aren't going to stop for 1200 seats at the Auditorium...now play in a concrete bunker where the acoustics would render Mozart unhearable.
But it's not just bands - it could be also shows, exhibitions, trade shows, outdoors displays, boat/trailer shows, WWE events, monster trucks...the list goes on.
Again, "provided there was a suitable venue". Reading is nothing without comprehension.
3/12/2014 7:34:03 AM
moi says:
When I look in the newspaper,and there's 2 ads..one for yet another lame tribute band appearing at the auditorium, and another for a big name "had a hit in the last couple years" band live on stage in Winnipeg...guess where I'll spend my money? Thunder Bay's lucky if it gets any big name bands that actually have any of the original members playing in it, lolol. Tribute bands=karaoke for the masses.I agree with your comments,Dude.
3/15/2014 5:02:07 PM
musicferret says:
1) From the states, you would need P2 visas and a massive amount of additional planning, just for a show in thunder bay? lol I think not.

2) Why are they branded as having something to gain? Because the current cost and loss estimates we are being presented with wouldn't stand up to a grade 10 entrepreneurship case study. The numbers show a giant white elephant in the making at a hyper inflated cost. Therefor, anyone who actually thinks spending $106m on this thing are either:
1) willfully ignorant of the costs involved
2) Oblivious to the massive difficulties involved in making this type of thing work in a city our size which is so geographically isolated from any large sized population
3) Standing to gain financially from this deal.
3/11/2014 11:56:50 PM
conker2012 says:
The decision whether or not to build the event center should be the only thing up for debate. Personally I would be very disappointed if it does not go forward and I think not building it would slow urbanization of our city, but building more suburbs type growth is FINANCIAL SUICIDE! No to Innova PARK EVER! Based on how may Cheque cashing and short term loan stores there are in Tbay it is no wonder why there is such a large group of short sighted people here. STOP THINK ABOUT THE COST RIGHT NOW AND LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE! An event centre that looses a million dollars a year means nothing if the city can generate 5, 10, 15 or even 20 million or more tax revenue per year from dense urban commercial and residential development in the core around it. DENSE DEVELOPMENT HAS LOW TAX BURDEN WHICH MEANS MORE MONEY COMES INTO THE COFFERS AND LESS GOES OUT TO PAY FOR MAINTENANCE AND SERVICES. I want to see a report to council on the cost of a suburb VS. a Condo development of the same size.
3/12/2014 10:07:39 AM
ou812 says:
What a joke! I am disappointed that this meeting got this much media coverage. 100 people at a meeting and most over 50... This reminds me of one of the city open houses in which I attended. There were similar numbers of grey haired members of the community complaining about the same old thing, "my taxes, the parking, Innova, fort william..."


I applaud the city admin and council that have gotten this event centre this far. Keep it up Mayor. Job well done.
3/11/2014 9:55:05 PM
yqtyqt says:
Ya you're right ou812. This is a joke. Actually its a travesty. How dare these "caneshakers" have an opinion, or oppose anything unless they consult with you first.

According to your reasoning, these "grey haired members of the community" should be taken out behind the barn and given the choice to fall in line or be shot.

The bad news iou is that you're getting closer to being a grey hair (or caneshaker) each day. let's see what you have to say when that day arrives. Somehow, I think your reasoning will change.

Look, these people are entitled to their say the same way you are. The fact that they pay taxes, entitles them to an opinion and a say in how their taxes are spent. I hate to inform you that they're "entitled" to vote in the next municipal election. If they want to attempt a co-ordinated response to the multi-purpose facility, they don't need your permission.

Hold a plebiscite already. But in so doing, I would question every number that the city puts out in support.

3/12/2014 9:01:33 AM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
April 1, Badger won't be 1,000 miles away. Come and try to kick my cane then.
3/11/2014 9:39:51 PM
sky high says:
Looks to me like a CANE SHAKING FESTIVAL!!!
3/11/2014 9:23:09 PM
jimmyboy says:
Oh well...so they choose April 1st for the second open house-meeting...most appropriate seeing that one would be a complete and utter fool to spend $106 Million dollars on this project when we are in desperate need of affordable housing...long term care housing...seniors housing...and so very many more HIGH PRIORITY items vs. this pie in the sky personal wish list of the mayor and some on city council and in administration.
3/11/2014 9:20:38 PM
Shane Caker says:
And 70 of those 100 people were only there to return library books.
3/11/2014 9:10:13 PM
Rock49 says:
100 people? Are you joking? Less than .01% of the population? That is nothing! I'm voting for the councillors that are FOR the events centre, just like the majority. Luckily this council is moving the city forward. We don't need a plebiscite. We have municipal elections which decide on which direction the city moves. The cane shakers know they're going to lose. AGAIN!!!
3/11/2014 9:00:33 PM
SomeGuy says:
100 people hardly qualifies for an mounting opposition.
3/11/2014 8:49:24 PM
Toot Sweet says:
the crowd "spilled out" of a large meeting room.

if all the people cannot get into the room, how can anyone say how many people were there? how many people drove on by when they saw the parking lot was too full and no parking was available?

how many people are required in your mind to be a valid opposition?

and how many people were at meetings and in favour of supporting this contestable undertaking?

I personally see an overwhelming number of people who are against this than for it.

We also don't know that those in attendance at any of the meetings are actually tax payers within the city and will be the ones paying for this in the future.

When our politicians speak of support for this project, without a plebiscite how can they be so sure that what they are hearing is actually coming from legitimate taxpaying voters enumerated within the city of Thunder Bay.

Until there is a plebiscite everything is heresay.

Hobbs needs to come clean and stop lying.
3/11/2014 11:02:57 PM
Shane Caker says:
Deneying the facts won't make your opinion right.
3/11/2014 11:29:02 PM
Toot Sweet says:
yet you cannot present any.

Are you a child per chance?
3/11/2014 11:39:27 PM
Shane Caker says:
You got a handfull of people in support of this at a highly advertised meeting. Those are the facts. Yet you make every excuse known to mankind to defend against those very facts? Just who is the child here?? Whaaaa.... Whaaaaa.... Whaaaa... I want my plebiscite now!! Get a life buddy...
3/12/2014 12:01:18 AM
Toot Sweet says:
if there was one hundred people there against this event centre that's 100 more people than you can prove are in favour of it.

prove that there is more people in favour of it than not.

Your turn. We're waiting.
3/12/2014 12:09:10 AM
Shane Caker says:
How about everyone that wasn't there?? There's a few right there. Your turn. We're waiting.
3/12/2014 12:26:51 AM
Toot Sweet says:
votes and matters of issue are decided by those who show and vote, not those who stay home.

I suppose you think we should decide our elections by counting voters who didn't vote?

typical child, not even the smallest bit of understanding.
3/12/2014 12:35:17 AM
Shane Caker says:
You win. I'm not gonna get in to an agreeing war with your own lame posts like you are doing. Good luck to your army of 100 out of 110,000.
3/12/2014 12:40:53 AM
Shane Caker says:
Uh, wasn't this a meeting for those who support a plebiscite? Wait a minute. Why yes it was. 100 people showed up. 100,900 stayed home. What is it about this that you dont understand?
3/12/2014 12:56:08 AM
truthseeker says:
Feb /2012-130 people attend city run event center open house at Italian cultural center

April 2012 -100 people attend city run event center open house at Davinci centre

May 2012- 150 people attend city run event center open house at Davinci center.

100 and change hardly qualifies for approval of an event center. Lets settle this once and for all, Bring on the Plebiscite or are the event center supporters spineless?
3/12/2014 7:53:54 AM
nvjgu says:
Mr Hobb's, You and city admin do what the people that live and pay tax here want. You work for us. We tell you what to do.
3/11/2014 8:41:47 PM
sky high says:
Wrong...we voted them in and they act on the majority's wishes....so quit shaking yer cane and go fill potholes yourself
3/11/2014 9:25:43 PM
Eastender says:
Uh....skyhigh, arn't you missing your favorite tv show, Honey Boo Boo.
Pop that soother back in your mouth and be a good boy.
3/12/2014 9:24:33 AM
sky high says:
Aren't you missing yours????---"How To Keep Your City in the Dark Ages"
3/12/2014 11:03:35 AM
ou812 says:
Yeah so build the event centre downtown!
3/11/2014 9:57:08 PM
musicferret says:
Wish i could have been there; however a weekday time precludes most people with young families, hence the more senior turnout.

Regardless, I have made my wishes well known with emails to all councillors and the mayor, which they will of course ignore.
3/11/2014 8:35:56 PM
Baor says:
A "crowd" of about 100 is hardly a "movement" of any kind in a city of over 100 000. If I was against this and attended I would be disappointed with the turn out and take that in and of itself as a plebiscite. 100 people mostly over the age of 50 is not a voice for the whole city. Go home people, move on and get over it.
3/11/2014 8:33:13 PM
progress now says:
Actually it was better attended than any of the so called public participation fora operated by the city respecting infrastructure. The second public information forum on the Gardens had 12 people. I think this was a fair sized crowd and there will be more.

Having said that this won't amount to anything unless council is changed. Last time we changed the mayor and reelected council and hoped for change - and got none -zilch. We would have been better off to dump council and keep the mayor.

The mayor pointed to the city's probable strategy, namely to get taxpayers to shell-out for another of administration's self-serving surveys to tell us we wanted the event centre all along. Rubbish!

It is all very discouraging...

3/12/2014 12:32:45 AM
maxumpat says:
Boar is right. All the more reason to have a plebiscite and put this issue to rest one way or the other.
3/12/2014 12:42:13 AM
Common cents says:
Lynn Peterson, who took over the mayor’s chair in 2003 and served through 2010 when she lost to current mayor Keith Hobbs, was a little coyer in her response when asked earlier this week.

“I do (have a preference), but you know, I’m going to let the community decide that. I think that the bottom line is the entire community has to benefit from its location,” she said.

Lyn--- "bottom line is the entire community has to benefit from its location"

Lyn---- Votes Innova Park

I vote for Lyn, or anyone who want the entire city to to beneifit!

Hobbs is done!!!!!!
3/12/2014 9:41:37 PM
Pandora says:
I'm don't know where you get your info, but Lynn Peterson has been heard on more than 1 occasion saying the ONLY place the event centre is going is downtown north core.
3/13/2014 10:50:15 AM
tiredofbull$ says:
I did not make it to this meeting and wish I would have. I am 44 years old and I am totally AGAINST this multiplex/arena. I pay taxes in this city. This should not be the cities responsibility to build this, let private enterprise/businesses build it and then run it. All levels of government need to get out of the sports and entertainment business and get back to basics like healthcare, education, roads, etc. that we all use and then lower taxes. With lower taxes and more money in our pockets, we can then decide what we want to spend it on ourselves, not some level of government telling me that I should pay for a hockey rink, golf course that I don't even use. I like racing, atving, shooting, etc., but you don't see me crying for the city or government to build me a racetrack, atv trails in the city, shooting range etc. because it is not governments responsibility to build these types of attractions and should be left to private enterprise/businesses to build them.
3/12/2014 1:35:37 AM
fastball says:
Well, we don't like in your perfect world - where we can decide where each and every penny of our taxes ultimately goes depending on each one of our interests.
Show me the last facility like this that was built purely with private money...and let's compare that number with the number of facilities that was built with SOME portion of tax-payers money. I'll bet dollars to donuts right now that that ratio is more than 100:1 - and that's being generous.
The amount of money being spent on "sports and entertainment" is probably a spit in the bucket compared to healthcare, education and infrastructure.
3/12/2014 11:08:33 AM
tiredofbull$ says:
Obviously by your username your into the stick and ball type sports, explain to me why this should not go to a plebiscite on the next municipal election? If your side wins, then I will stop the fight against it, if my side wins, you should do the same. Also explain to me why your sports should get tax dollars and not mine. In my opinion 1 dollar out of 100 is still 1 dollar to much, this type of investments should be made by private companies. If all levels of government, got out of the sports and entertainment business and lowered taxes by the amount they spend on them, we could then decide on our own where we would like to spend that extra savings, you could spend it going to hockey games, build in a arena by private enterprise and I could spend it on whatever I choose and the rest of the people in this country could do the same. As you can see be my username, that I am tired of wasteful tax spending.
3/12/2014 5:13:59 PM
fastball says:
Like I said...we don't yet live in a society where you get to pick and choose where your tax dollars go. You live in town and get town services - your tax dollars are your bill for services received. Period. It's not as if your tax dollars are some kind of gracious gift from you to the city - "Here's your allowance, City - but don't spend it on something stupid".
In the real world that most of us live in, public money is used to erect public buildings - buildings that are civic in nature, and enhance the living experience in that city.
But until your perfect black-and-white world exists, you have to live in the real world.
Unless, of course - you have the option to pack up and move someplace less oppressive.
I'm still undecided about a plebiscite - because I don't have all the facts and numbers in front of me...and I refuse to be one of the herd that blindly follow the loudest voice, just because it's easier than thinking for yourself.
3/13/2014 1:09:31 PM
tiredofbull$ says:
Believe me I can think for myself, but can you, now you type your undecided but lower down in this forum your response was,

Pandora says:

It Is obvious by the number of posting we need to have a plebiscite.
We deserve democracy.

This City and Council has proven on numerous occasions they can not manage large budgets. Imagine, the millions in overruns . This is the scariest part of the whole business.
Never mind the wrong location...We can not afford this at this time.
When fools rush in.
believe we are still hiring more City staff!

3/12/2014 12:14:20 PM

fastball says:

"We deserve democracy."
You have democracy - it's called voting for your city leaders. If you don't like the way they're going, you vote 'em out again next election. That's democracy.
What's the point of electing leaders if you undermine them by advocating a citizens' vote on every single issue that comes before them?
3/14/2014 2:26:05 AM
truthseeker says:
Feb. 29/2012- 130 people attend cities event center open house at Italian cultural centre.

April 2012- 100 people attend cities second open house on event center at Davinci centre.

May 2012- 150 people attend cities open house at Davinci Centre.

To the multiplex supporters I wouldn't be criticizing the amount of people who attended last nights meeting when you've had equally embarrassing numbers attend the city run open houses.

Baor you said it 'a crowd of 100 is hardly a movement'. 3 open houses by the city 100 and change at these 3 meetings and this incompetent city administration wants to steamroll the taxpayer and your boy hobbs says 'everyone wants it' judging by the equally pathetic numbers who attended the city run open houses.

Bring on the Plebiscite or are all the multiplex supporters walking with a yellow stripe down their back?
3/12/2014 7:45:27 AM
Eastender says:
Its just the tip of the iceberg. You know, like the one that sunk the Titanic!
3/12/2014 9:14:55 AM
yqtyqt says:
"100 people mostly over the age of 50 is not a voice for the whole city".

While I've read some of your postings over the years, this ranks up there with one of the most offensive.

Why stop at age Baor. Why not categorize people between, whites, blacks, browns or yellow skinned participants.

Why not categorize between short people, tall people, disabled or able bodies people. Why not observe that some wore glasses and some didn't. Some were Libs, Cons or dippers.

Your comment is foolish. Only in that they all are concerned about the future of Thunder Bay.

If it offends you that citizens, including grey hairs and caneshakers have met to voice their concerns, then you need to realize what your words say of you.

Whether its 100 citizens or 1000. They are "entitled" to their opinion.
3/12/2014 10:17:22 AM
baor says:
Read the article. I merely quoted it.
They are entitled to their opinions but there is such a thing as the silent majority.
3/12/2014 2:00:57 PM
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