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2014-03-14 at 11:12

Province commits $14M to help solve gridlock issues

By Leith Dunick and Matt Vis, tbnewswatch.com
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The province put up $14 million in an effort to end the gridlock that has been crippling the region's hospital.

Ontario's Health Minister Deb Matthews on Friday arrived at the Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre with her pocketbook open, promising a 10th anniversary gift to end a problem that’s plagued the hospital since it first opened in 2004.

The funding, which will be spent over the current fiscal year as well as next, is only the first step in targeting over-capacity issues.

“This is the beginning. This is a short-term plan,” Matthews said to local media after the formal announcement.

“There is more that will need to be done down the road but this will significantly reduce pressures in the hospital.”

Matthews arrival and announcement follows a recent fire code violation, which the hospital received after it put patients in hallway alcoves as a short-term solution to its capacity shortfalls.

While the ministry was aware of the fire code violation, Matthews said Friday's funding announcement was not a direct response and insisted the process behind the funding had already been underway before then.

The proposed solution sees the addition of 26 new beds at the Lakehead Psychiatric Hospital to treat people with long-term illnesses and disabilities as well as funding for 17 more spaces at the former McKellar Hospital to allow seniors and people in need of care to remain independent.

In addition, there will be funding to staff 10 more acute care beds at the regional which is expected to be able to treat 600 more patients per year.

There is also more than $4 million earmarked to expand a nurse outreach program through the NorWest Community Health Centre. That program is estimated to provide home care for up to 500 seniors and people with complex needs.

According to Matthews, the roots of the over-capacity problems at the hospital originate from a system that has limited alternatives for people seeking care.

Thus, a solution involving community partners such as the Local Health Integration Network and St. Joseph’s Care Group are vital.

“We want people to access the care they need in the most appropriate place. A lot of people come to the hospital but they don’t really need the hospital, they need care,” she said.

“When we have people in hospital that are designated (alternate level of care) they don’t need to be here and they don’t want to be here. We need to build the capacity elsewhere so people that do need to be in the hospital can come.”

Tracy Buckler, president and executive director of St. Joseph’s Care Group, said the addition of beds at the Lakehead Psychiatric Hospital will be temporary until the construction of the Centre of Excellence for Integrated Senior Services is complete.

With the current options available, this is the best way to create flow through the system and keep patients out of the hospital.

“This is a great temporary solution for 26 beds to be able to move people into a location that isn’t in hospital,” she said.

“It’s a temporary solution; it’s not ideal. The ideal solution would be to have sufficient long-term care bed capacity and that’s the long-term solution we’re working on. For a temporary solution, there is absolutely no other capacity in the system.”

The announcement was welcomed by Dr. Stewart Kennedy, hospital vice-president of medical and academic affairs, but he was cautious in response to whether this could be the cure to gridlock.

He also admitted the funding might have been overdue but placed the onus on local entities for taking time to create a detailed solution to bring to the province.

“We could have used this announcement a year ago but we had to get our act in order here in Thunder Bay,” Kennedy said. “What we learned over the past years is if we bring solutions to the Ministry of Health they’re more receptive than if we’re bringing problems.”

The announcement also outlined a plan to add 10 full-time and 14 temporary emergency room doctors.

Those full-time positions will bring stability to a department that has had to rely on the use of temporary locum doctors.

Kennedy said the hospital has already been able to recruit three new full-time doctors as of July 1, with the expectation of adding five each year for the next two years.

Thunder Bay Regional saw more than 105,000 visits to its emergency room in 2013.

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Comments

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tom0066 says:
While this is fantastic news....does anyone else smell an election coming?? Just sayin
3/14/2014 11:31:23 AM
rob20 says:
The best news surrounding TBRHSC in a long time. Bravo to the province & Health Minister Deb Matthews for taking real significant action to fix a dangerous situation.
3/14/2014 11:40:00 AM
musicferret says:
1) Anyone else smell election desperation?
2) How on earth are they planning on getting 10 more FT emerge drs. up here? We are already so desperate that we have taken Chris Mazza, the Orange Air scammer, to fill in the gaps. Where do these 10 mystical drs. come from, not to mention the other 14 temporary drs? There simply aren't any left! They are all either working already in other centres or have moved to the USA.
3) Space: They have already cordoned off a post-surgical recovery area which will be used to expand some of the beds they are adding. Unfortunately, that means we no longer have enough recovery area for surgeries. So aren't we just switching the problem from one thing to another? Without post surgical care/recovery, you can't have surgeries.... although reducing surgeries is a great way to save money for a hospital! lol Maybe they'll just start cancelling everything not 100% essential?

This is a very expensive and poorly placed bandaid on a gaping wound.
3/14/2014 11:48:49 AM
sky high says:
Liberals know they are going to win the two seats up here anyway, so there is no need for desperate measures in that sense. What we do need, however, is exactly what the Liberals are giving us with this 14 million dollar solution. You of all people in this site refuse to think outside the box, and you are paranoid. And that 14 million dollars she just gave us, that is 14 million dollars less that she'll have to give to a project in one of the bigger cities like Toronto and Ottawa. So by giving our hospital this money, the Liberals are probably going to lose votes in the bigger cities. But why am I explaining this to someone who lives within the dusty cocoon of his own limited thinking?
3/14/2014 12:38:45 PM
musicferret says:
You didn't even deal with 2 of my 3 concerns and instead implied that the liberal seats up here are so safe that they don't need to spend money. I would say that for the first time in a while they are NOT safe this time around, and they are splashing money where they know they still have a chance: Thunder Bay.

But go ahead and call me a limited thinker when it is you who completely ignored my 2 main points surround actual space issues and finding these theoretical emerg drs.

You attempted to respond to my post without actually dealing with either real point I made, and instead essentially called me names. Well, good news! I'm feeling charitable and will respond with some free education for you:

How to debate:
1) Respond with opinion and facts to back up your viewpoint.
2) Don't name call.

Maybe with this newfound knowledge I have just given you, you won't be made to look like a fool by this 'limited thinker'.
3/14/2014 3:26:24 PM
sky high says:
When your first point immediately refers to desperation, hard to take any point you make seriously.
How will they get more doctors up here? MONEY, which they are giving us. As for Mazza, he is qualified even if he is a scammer. You're a qualified, negative troll. The liberal govt has stepped in with a solution and the cash to go with it, but all you can do is foam at the mouth and throw in the towel because you see everything as impossible. (limited thinking).
Your third point, space...let the people in charge figure that out. You don't know any better than I do. Never been in emergency or been admitted to hospital so I don't know, and even if I had I still wouldn't know. I'm as qualified to figure that out as you are. They have the money now so think positive for once in your life. You whine when we don't have the money, you whine when we do. Ergo, limited thinking on your side.
3/14/2014 5:38:50 PM
musicferret says:
Whats wrong with calling them desperate and how does that negate my other points? The liberal brand is now associated with Orange, e-health, gas plants cancellations etc, and it is certainly a brand in trouble. So seeing this type of expenditure that should have been made years ago, just before heading into an election, yes, that would appear fairly desperate.

You ignore my point on Mazza and other ER drs. Mazza is the best we can do. There is already ample money to pay ER drs, but none are coming here and of the few we have, many ave recently left. Unless they are suddenly changing the entire fee for service structure, this changes nothing. We already had more job opening in ER than Dr's, and this won't change that.

Based on what you're saying, you're right, you are not qualified to comment on #3. Luckily, the story has been updated, and that question has been answered: the LPH.

If raising real actual concerns with facts associated is being a troll, I guess I'm a troll.
3/15/2014 7:18:54 AM
hadenough says:
"creating 26 new hospital beds at the Lakehead Psychiatric Hospital to treat people with long-term illnesses "

You may have missed this very interesting line in the article that directly answers your #3 statement.

Great news and about time. Maybe we should have elections every spring.
3/14/2014 3:16:18 PM
sky high says:
I'm starting to believe that in their excitation to get their comment published, these people read the headline and that is all.
3/15/2014 1:18:03 PM
tiredofit says:
So is this just simply a one time thing because it's election time or is this a new yearly addition to the budget? $14 million doesn't last long in this industry.
3/14/2014 11:50:01 AM
mikethunderbay says:
We complain when nothing is done, then when something is done we say it's only because of an election. I guess that's why we got angioplasty, a med school a law school and more investment in northern ontario then ever before. Gotta love Thunder Bay, the only thing we do better then play hockey is complain.
3/14/2014 12:34:45 PM
pylon says:
I'll sell you an "a"..
3/14/2014 9:38:04 PM
sickandtired says:
Finally ... Thank you!
3/14/2014 1:00:09 PM
spencer's_gurl says:
Sounds good in theory...but it is a temporary plan for a big problem that is only going to continue to get worse...."staffing 10 acute care beds"....I am not sure where they are going to find these extra beds. The only good part of the plan is utilizing the LPH. I am scared to think of where they plan on recruiting these ER dr's from.....
3/14/2014 1:05:24 PM
Eastender says:
The middle east?
China?
(Shudder) Mexico?
Korea?
3/15/2014 8:04:41 PM
jimmyboy says:
That should read..."our pocket book is open"...not hers...plus never will anyone ever be held accountable for the $151 Million Dollar overall cost over run on the initial approved budget...the huge amount in and of itself should warrant an audit...yet for some really strange reason...that will never be done.!!!
3/14/2014 2:03:28 PM
Eastender says:
If there ever was an audit, there might be some people leaving town on the first plane out of here.
3/15/2014 8:08:36 PM
livewire says:
I hope someone is watching the 14 million so some of it doesn't go elsewhere. I guess that the existing ER Doc's will now have to pay their own expenses instead of the Hospital fund all expense's
EG.> Rental Cars,Accommodations etc.
3/14/2014 2:28:14 PM
Undrgrnd says:
Are you all so desperate for good news that you'll grasp at anything? Legitimate concerns have been brought up about this supposed solution and to simply dismiss them as whiners is just ignorant.

I won't reiterate what others have said but one thing I do know personally is that small towns in this province understand one thing universally: Doctor Shortage. So I have no idea how they can promise 10 new full time Dr's...

3/14/2014 3:02:48 PM
caesarjbasquitti says:
The health system lacks objective quality control.

Throwing money we don't have, at a symptom of the problem will not improve much the real causes.

Its like buying extra strength Advil (they thin your blood by the way) or extra strength Tylenol (they increase your blood pressure) for the pain in your foot, rather than removing the thorn stuck in your toe.

Prevention, the best of cures, will never be seriously promoted, in a system that pays out every time you go see your doctor !!!

Caesar J. B. Squitti H.B. Comm
3/14/2014 3:39:24 PM
YellowSnow13 says:
There has to be an election coming Mauro is in the picture again. Isn't this the same health minister that decided knowing the number of calories in a Big Mac was a good idea? I'm going to say it again. Stop having medical people in charge of hospitals. That's your problem. They are not trained for business.
3/14/2014 3:51:32 PM
thunderbaycouncel says:
told you. LPH.... about time they announced it.
3/14/2014 3:55:35 PM
Mythago says:
It's great that they will utilize the public hospital the LPH but for how long? The ALC problem will persist long after the money is gone. Having just been at the regional hospital with a sick family member for almost a month I couldn't help but notice not 1 but 2 courtyards. Even the birdhouses (about a dozen or so) were empty. I've never notice anyone in the courtyards in the summer either. That's 2 missing units. Also put the forensics and adult mental health programs back to the psychiatric hospital where they belong.
3/14/2014 4:17:21 PM
fastball says:
Once again, only in gracious Thunder Bay can the gift of 14 million dollars to try and help alleviate a chronic problem be treated with scorn and derision.
Stay classy, TBay...stay classy.
3/14/2014 5:25:59 PM
YellowSnow13 says:
That's right fastball. Giving 14M and never really solving the problem works well. Just throw money at it and hope the problem goes away. Has that worked up to now? Lets see...they threw money towards a new hospital. Made it too small, Liberals get elected. SUCKERS!
3/14/2014 5:43:10 PM
fastball says:
You DID read the article? Did you miss the part where they acknowledge it's a initial short-term solution to a ultimate plan of creating more long-term beds in this community.
So yeah...let's take the money handed out right now and use it to get some relief - rather than the usual blah-blah-blah talk that routinely comes from the government.

3/15/2014 9:16:25 AM
Watchmaker says:
It is one thing to staff up on doctors (where these mythical beasts will come from I am not sure and health care needs may be better met if they were working clinics in the community, not in the ER)and increase ALC bed spaces, but where in all this are the increases in NURSING staff? The hospital has been laying off nursing staff over the last few years. Nurses are the backbone of the healthcare system - doctors try to be the head and neck.
3/14/2014 6:46:25 PM
spazz says:
Increasing nursing staff is easier said than done when they get paid more elsewhere. I have a friend who went into nursing and has worked in a few hospitals in BC and in Alberta. She came home to live for a while and said she had never made less money. She moved back to the west coast after less than a year.
3/15/2014 11:36:46 AM
anvil of crom says:
hmm check you facts B.C. has the worst wages for health care professionals ( and teachers) out west, they all flock to Alberta. I know as i have friends in health care in B.C. and Alberta. B.C. is a "broke" province.
As to the local situation the nurses that do have positions seem to get called for shifts all the time. So much so they are pretty burnt out on some floors after that h1n1 outbreak. They do work hard!
That being said I have never seen so many nurses in management postions, managing managers , educators, clip board professionals etc etc then either the PAGH or McKellar ever had ALL getting paid top dollar, and not doing direct patient care.
The shift workers laugh , you can't get a parking spot during the weekdays , but weekends when all these light weights go home the lots 1/3 full and the place runs fine!
Weekdays all these clipboard professional come back and all hell breaks loose!
3/15/2014 6:00:30 PM
jonthunder says:
Too little, too late; an election gimmick gone BAD. How many have suffered or died while waiting for this liberal government health care management joke? I know of one in my family.
3/14/2014 7:52:09 PM
lori says:
Dear Mr. Mauro and Mr. Gravelle. I realize we were only recently complaining about this issue on this site, but please stop trying to get more money for us. The Billions you have brought so far have been forgotten. You see here in hick town, we complain about an issue and then accuse you of electioneering. It doesn't matter that you have done more than any other MP or MPP in 50 years ( please prove me wrong ) and it doesn't matter that you two saved this city as this city is doing better than any other forestry city in the country. Here in hicksville we just want to complain. As one said, we do it as well as we do hockey.

Please start being a bit more like the Tories-- give us very little.
Be like the NDP MP's--they achieve nothing.

The city can close 300 Long-term beds and no one says a word.
You are bringing 400 beds for seniors and everyone complains you do nothing.

You guys keep bringing stuff and people just want to complain.
Why even bother.
3/14/2014 9:07:11 PM
Shane Caker says:
You truly must live the most boring life on the planet. (please prove me wrong)
3/15/2014 1:01:05 AM
lori says:
I spend it with my daughter's children, go for walks with my hubby, visit friends, volunteer at a couple of spots and live quite a busy life with the ability to take a couple of small trips a year. So quite an active life.

There, I just proved you wrong.

Now, I said these are the two best MPP's or MP's that this city has seen in the last 50 years.

Again, prove me wrong.

but like everyone before you who just complains, no one, not one person has offered up one name in five decades of an elected official who has done more for our city or region than these two.

That tells me and many others all we need to know.
3/15/2014 12:35:01 PM
Vanity says:
Just a few months ago the LPH was unfit, now miraculously it is the saviour.
3/14/2014 9:17:40 PM
caesarjbasquitti says:
Harm Reduction or harm elimination ?

Do we tell children to wear a life jacket when walking on thin ice ? or do we tell them avoid the problem ?

Do we tell children to drive sober, or do we tell them to wear a crash helmet to reduce the harm caused by crashing ?

Seems these harm reduction programs, are not helping avoid the problems ? merely trying to reduce some of the problems but still supporting the key problem ?

Prevention is the best of cures, unless you benefit from the problem in one way or another ....
3/14/2014 9:33:31 PM
anvil of crom says:
well Caesar to manage risk in your scenario, you have to consider one thing about you cant control 100% of the population 100% of the time!
So.... I would get the "children" to wear crash helmets and wear life jackets, then put the seat forward so the kids can reach the pedals, need to be able to hit that brake you know! A few cushions on the drivers seat so they can see out, as good vision is important. Also and tell them to just "have a few" alcoholic drinks versus getting wasted, responsible drinking is important and decreases liver dis-ease.
Then and ONLY THEN would I give them the car keys! They will just steal them when your not looking.
In the end you've educated them as to the risks, decreased risks TREMENDOUSLY , and brokered mutual trust and appreciation.
3/16/2014 12:29:45 PM
Watchful says:
Oh Liberal Gods we do thank you for the temp bail out, however the problem has not been given a permanent solution. We NEED more long term beds, permanent not just temporary
3/14/2014 11:10:16 PM
trevor99 says:
my favourite posting from above was the one commenting on Mr. Mauro being in the picture.

Do you really think he is the one who determines which picture is used by TBnewswatch.

Are people just that idiotic and need to complain for the sake of complaining.

Is this the best possible solution. Probably not. Does this make a big dent in the challenge that existed. Sure it does.

Unfortunately it does not meet the agenda of some folk, complain at everything no matter what it is.
3/15/2014 7:09:57 AM
pc says:
When Mike Harris was in power and making cuts, I was in the hospital in TB for surgery. Gravelle went through with his loyal band of journalists and saw me waiting in the hall on a gurney. He came over all concerned and asked what I was there for. I said I was next in line for xrays and then surgery.
He said and I guess you had to wait months to get this far. I told him I was told to get to the hospital and they would do surgery the next day, but I asked to wait a bit as I had young children waiting for us at home which is out of town.
He said I guess you have been here a long time since you are reading. I said I was there about 15 min but always carry a book with me.
So 1 week after I was told I needed surgery I was in the hospital and had successful surgery that day and was home the next day.
Now we are waiting for possibly more surgery and I am still waiting to see the neurosurgeon.
So much for big bad Harris and wonderful Liberal caring.
Fix the hospital get beds for seniors
3/15/2014 7:43:30 AM
REG says:
What are the feds doing to help this problem and did they have anything to do with it like transfer cuts.
3/15/2014 7:47:51 AM
pc says:
health care is the provincial jurisdiction.
health care was not touched by the federal budgets.
So where did the money go?
Well lots of it went to setting up a computer system to have all the medical records for all Ontarians available no matter where you go in Ont.
But if you have an MRI or Xrays done in the Soo they still have to make a hard copy of them and send them to TB.
Great way to spend millions.
Then there is the closing of gas plants to save a couple ridings.
another great use of our money.
How about the helicopter fiasco?
Now how can you possibly want to blame the feds for that loss of beds and poor care.
Place the blame where it belongs and that is on the Liberals. First Dalton with his no tax increase but you have to pay a premium on OHIP. Then take things that were paid for by OHIP off the list so seniors pay for xrays, and people needing physio to stay mobile and able to work now have to pay for that plus wait months for appointments.
3/15/2014 11:16:44 AM
Jon Powers says:
fastball:

"Once again, only in gracious Thunder Bay can the gift of 14 million dollars to try and help alleviate a chronic problem be treated with scorn and derision.
Stay classy, TBay...stay classy"

You have no right to support the funding announcement fastball!

T.B.R.H.S.C. was created after the people of Thunder Bay voted for "One New Acute Care Hospital".

November 1997 Municipal Elections.

It was Plebiscited!

You are opposed to Plebiscites, remember like for our new Event Centre?!


What a "Flip-Flopper"!


Great Story!
Plus Posts!
tbnewswatch.com
3/15/2014 9:03:22 AM
Reach for the top says:
The addition of 43 beds between LPH and McKellar WILL help immensely! My concern is that it is only temporary until the centre of excellence is built....we are talking about closing down three long term care homes and building one--with no real increase in capacity....it sounds like we are just repeating history. There needs to be a long term and creative solution. I like Caesar and yellowsnow's comments--lets start involving different people to look at the real problem.
3/15/2014 9:04:43 AM
thunderbaycouncel says:
its not temporary. As the years pass the problem will grow. By next year there will be another 50 beds opening up in LPH, in 2 years 200, 3 years 400, and so on....Hey, there is room for over 1000 there!
3/15/2014 10:59:52 AM
Escroft says:
A rough concept, bear with me, my fingers aren't exactly nimble here, but what I propose we do instead of this stupidity, is look on the opposite side of the hospital and think about building a twin hospital. The twin [on my proposal idea] would encompass Northwestern Ontario, while the Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Center remains only for Thunder Bay citizens. The all-purpose non-emergency clinic would supply any and all patients with all non-emergency concerns: Coughs, colds, flus, etc.. Since these are not made for the Emergency Room in the primary hospital, the call could easily be made to transfer TO there from the Clinic should the doctor feel the need for the hospital to take closer examination. This would drastically reduce wait times, split the two hospitals even between the City and the rest of Northwestern Ontario, and also hereby wipe out any further babble about gridlock. Thank you.
Tbnewswatch.com

3/15/2014 11:06:46 AM
spazz says:
Depends on if you can get Tom Jones to sell the space to you or not I guess. My understanding is he owns the land the hospital currently sits on and is making lots of lease money. If you want to build anything in this town you have to check with the Land Barons first. ;)
3/15/2014 11:42:46 AM
hadenough says:
Um, the LRCA building is owned by the LRCA. There's already a new, non-emergency clinic up and running on the other side of the road from the LRCA property, the new Fort William Clinic.

Good luck having a dedicated hospital just for residents of Thunder Bay. Using the existing LPH site which is already built, heated and paid for makes far more sense to me.
3/16/2014 7:13:25 PM
mystified says:
The Liberals blew their chance of getting re-elected when they cost us billions because of the gas plant cancellations.
To hell with the old boys clubs and get some new parties in the game. You can't loose as they all promise us the world then do nothing they promised. They steal our money with expense fraud and don't go to jail the Joe Blow would.
Change is good.
3/15/2014 12:43:39 PM
jonthunder says:
If I am not mistaken, the Regional Hospital is built on Lakehead University muskeg.
3/15/2014 1:05:57 PM
hotchoc says:
PC, I try my best to not be political. I try to support good efforts and not parties but your postings are unbelievable. I will try and HELP.

Yes, E-health was not done well. It was started under Mike Harris and went no where. The Liberals took it over and likely got a grade of 5 or 6. There are a lot of people with e-health records. Not as many as could have been, but lots.

Gas Plants- Dalton, glad you are gone but with a minority government, exactly how did the Liberals do this by themselves.

Helicopters? Heaven help us. That was your beloved FEDS. They deal with defence. U would blame Liberals for the salem witch trials. Health care was touched by Feds. They just gutted funding to Ontario and Ontario provides far more $'s to ottawa than Ottawa sends back. It has been suggested over $10 billion more.

I do my own share of bashing Queens Park when it is needed but help us all out and get a fact or two clear. Helicopters. I fell out of my chair laughing.
3/15/2014 5:11:00 PM
pc says:
ok I said helicopters I should have said the fiasco of the air ambulances. No pilots on some shifts money being paid and not being used for what it was meant to be used for.
People getting big bonus' then even bigger severance packages and then suing because they were let go.
People possibly died due to the incompetence of the directors and yet the Liberal gov. did nothing constructive.
Maybe the Harris government decided the risks of losing tax payer money stopped them. I do not know I was not in the room or in on the discussions. All I know is that it does not work and the tax payers have paid for a lot of nothing.
They all agreed to close the plants but the Libs did it the wrong way and we end up paying billions. There was a way to close them without it costing that much.
The libs like to spend our money and that would be fine if it improved the province.
All I see is the province which was once proud is now just trying to stay afloat.
3/15/2014 9:32:51 PM
lori says:
PC, I sense a bit of hope. here is what I see.

A forestry city like forestry cities across Canada and North America was hit hard by the downturn in the forest industry. If it was just T.Bay, then I would support your anti-liberal everything. But it was around the globe. Newspapers were collapsing and the US economy, the people that bought our wood collapsed.

Instead of dying, T.Bay is booming. Not perfect, but compared to those other forestry cities, booming and it is because of the money, support, jobs brought here by our MPP's. Now if you wish to speak about the deficit/debt I am fine with that. We can have that debate on whether it is a good or bad thing. All I know is that the Federal Debt went sky high also. They will be balanced sooner, yes. But out of that money in Ottawa, we got a thimbleful. From the debt from Queen's Park, we got a cargo ship full. I will continue to say, name me any politician who has done more, any time, any gov't. You can't because there isn't one.
3/16/2014 8:03:53 AM
pc says:
Yes Lori, you do see a bit of hope on my part. I hope the Libs will be gone this next election.
I have only lived in the NW for the past 30 years and so far I see very little of what the government has done for this area or Toronto.
Maybe 50 years ago there was something done but since I lived in SW Ont. and was 8 at the time politics didn't interest me much.
The feds added to the deficit because the Libs and NDP demanded they bail out companies and stimulate the economy.
In order to do that the debt went up.
That debt is much lower now so my question is when will the libs reign in their spending so the Ontario debt can be brought to a level that our grandchildren's children will not still be paying it?
The hydro debt was to be paid off 2 years ago I think until the Libs. took that for more spending.
I do not really care who has done more in the past. What I do care about is who can do the most now and in the future. And it certainly is not the liberals.
3/16/2014 1:27:45 PM
lori says:
PC you are a gem.
New courthouse, med school, law school, assisted living centre, long term care under construction to cover for the city abandoning seniors. More highway money than ever before. State of the art medical equipment you cannot find in almost all of Canada. New health services. Nurse practitioner clinics, uploading of services downloaded from Mike Harris saving T.Bay taxpayers millions and on and on it goes. Plus likely two thousand jobs including 1100 at Bombardier. That is scratching the surface. That is what was done HERE. in Thunder Bay by the Ontario government. Only a blind ideologue, like you are cannot see it, and you continue to suggest that the Fed deficit is going down. No it is not. It will be balanced by next year. It went up 160 billion in the last five years but you keep pretending. And the hydro debt was created by Mike who tried to privatize hydro and invested nothing.I don't support everything liberal, just everything liberal that took place here.
3/16/2014 5:50:41 PM
lori says:
by the way PC, the past includes only 2 or 3 months ago with another 480 million for Bombardier. tell me again who is doing for this city. Poor Stephan Harper, being forced to spend 160 Billion. And I am accused of blind loyalty. Quite laughable.
3/16/2014 5:52:35 PM
pc says:
Talk about blind loyalty.
The Regional Hospital was started under Mike Harris.
I know the libs finished it but it was started under the Mike Harris gov.
Look back on almost any news source and you will find the libs and NDP pushing the Steven Harper government to spend for stimulus.
So Bombardier gets a few jobs in TB while they are moving every other thing they do overseas.
And also TB is not a lumber city. It may have been but it always had the port to fall back on.
Marathon, Terrace Bay now they are lumber towns. Not much done to help them since they do not have the voters base to attract the government.
Ok the feds will have it balanced in 2 years.
that is a heck of a lot better than what the libs are doing. taxing us and corporations and continue to spend us deeper into debt.
In case you forgot the fed libs downloaded what they could onto the provinces so Mr.Harris had to cut spending and services.
He got many off the welfare rolls and they actually got jobs.
3/16/2014 7:14:51 PM
lori says:
Yes PC, blind. I didn't say hospital, I said med school. Those few jobs at Bombardier are 1100. That is about 2 auto plants but you consider it a drop in the bucket. You want to excuse Harper for 160 Billion. Please. And t.Bay is not a lumber city? Forestry was the term. Lumber paper mills. Newspapers closing, no homes being built. Exactly what science fiction magazines do you read? The port has not been good for 20 years and it was the Federal Liberals who helped destroy it. See, I can criticize Liberals. Try criticizing your emperor Stephan. As for downloading. Yeap some of that from the Liberals for sure, but Mike had choices and he made his, many of which hurt T.Bay including Hudak transferring jobs to Toronto. But Harper cut over 600 million to Ontario this year. Ontario provides over 10 Billion more to Ottawa than we get. Harper is balancing his budget on the backs of Ontario but don't let facts get in the way. But I am trying to convince a person who thinks a 1100 jobs is a few
3/17/2014 4:03:04 PM
pc says:
Yes Mike had choices and cutting spending when he did not have the money was a good choice.
Now here is what has happened to Ontario with Dalton and Wynne at the helm.
A new study saying we owe more than California and we all laugh at California and the money they owe.
Well guess what they owe half of what we do. Now who do we laugh at? Maybe we should look in the mirror.

3/18/2014 11:07:51 AM
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