Tbnewswatch Local News
Tuesday July 7 2015
4:55 AM EDT
2014-04-10 at 16:43

Serious support?

FILE -- An early conceptual drawing of the proposed north core events centre.
City of Thunder Bay handout
FILE -- An early conceptual drawing of the proposed north core events centre.
By tbnewswatch.com

Initial results of a university survey show that nearly 80 per cent of respondents are in favour of building a new events centre.

Seven Lakehead University students in professor Mike Yuan's fourth year tourism economics class are trying to evaluate the level of support and opposition of the proposed project. Using an online survey, the students have been collecting data from Thunder Bay residents regarding a proposed downtown events centre.

While results are still coming in, as of Thursday afternoon Yuan said about 79 per cent of respondents favoured building a new events centre.

Another 72 per cent said they believed the construction of a new events centre would have a positive impact on tourism.

The original structure of the survey was as scientific and non-bias as the students could make it, but the survey caught fire online and will now end up with about 2,000 responses by the time data collecting is complete.

Yuan says this has undoubtedly made the survey more bias than they would like, but they have ways to fix that.


(Michael Albanese/ TBT News)

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We've improved our comment system.
bkr9812 says:
Why don't we let all the "supporters" put their money where their mouth is. I keep hearing "it will be paid for in 20 years." So let's start a kickstarter or other crowd-funding project asking for 5% of that. And see how many "supporters" pledge $$$.
4/12/2014 9:50:38 AM
old vienna says:
Serious support? Tim Commisso thinks so.Tim Commisso says he thinks the upper threshold the city would be willing to absorb to build a new events centre would be 50 per cent of the expected $80-million to $100-million cost.


You can see the event center horror movie coming from a mile away. Too bad for the taxpayers, it will be a never ending nightmare. Remember 50% of the total cost, Scary!!!

4/11/2014 11:26:12 AM
Eastender says:
Notice how in the second last paragraph of that story it mentions the city was denied funding in the first round of funding announcements. What has changed to make any difference in the next round? Not much!
4/12/2014 4:31:44 PM
rob20 says:
This survey is a joke and TBNewswatch's reporting of the results are a perfect example of reckless journalism. The survey:


The only thing this survey is using to ensure some uniqueness of submissions is using web browser cookies in the background to see if you tried to complete it. Just clear your web browser history & cookies and you're able to resubmit the survey answers as many times as you like.... just keep clearing you're browser history.

I did that & submitted answers to the survey 5 times. This survey has ZERO validity.

And what a joke TBNewswatch is for reporting this as some kind of accurate indicator of how $106 million dollars should be spent. Was an investigation at all done by the author of this article into submission control? It does not look like it. TBNewswatch, the Chronicle Journal for its editorial this morning, & CBC radio should all issue retractions & apologies for reporting this as a reliable metric. What a joke!
4/11/2014 9:31:07 AM
S Duncan says:
the survey is of course a joke.

I have to stick up for this site though.

Leith gave us a question mark at the end of the headline and just put it out there for discussion. Im quite confident that he knows as well as most of us do that this survey means nothing.

although he doesn't need me to speak for him.

as for those other instituitions, yes, they should be ashamed of themselves, but they have been trying to steer public opinion their whole lives, its nothing new, just more obvious now.
4/11/2014 10:01:36 AM
chezhank says:

In defense of tbnewswatch.
Note the ? after serious support.

As for CBC well now I agree with funding being cut to it.

C-J, same old ,same old, even with a new publisher.

henry wojak
mayor in waitng
4/11/2014 1:04:36 PM
Unspoken says:
I can't wait to watch hockey, concerts, curling at the new welfare dome. Meanwhile others sit behind computers complaining about it.
4/11/2014 9:14:23 AM
YellowSnow13 says:
The problem with this survey is this. We don't get to see the results of all the questions. You can spin surveys any way you want and people will believe it. What age wants this centre? Lets look at all the other things that were going to make T. Bay Great! The complex, Auditorium, Keskus, Victoriaville, Casino and now the Marina. Where are the droves of people coming here. We built it! When will they come? It's not putting money in my pocket at the end of the day and I'm sure nobody will be looking after me in the future.
4/11/2014 8:59:23 AM
DustBunny says:
I found the survey lacking. There wasn't much of an option for non-applicable answers. For example, it asked me a lot about hockey, but I don't attend games and I'm not going to see any at the new events centre. Then it asks me how much I'd be willing to pay for Thunderwolves tickets. I just said I don't watch or attend games, and there's no option for "will not attend." I like what they tried to do, but the questions were not worded with the end user in mind.
4/11/2014 8:52:01 AM
bottleneck says:
I seriously hope that all the people who are against this event centre, are not the ones who always call Thunder Bay a "hick town" as there's nothing to do. If we could host some major events and concerts HERE, we wouldn't have to travel to Minneapolis, or Winnipeg, Toronto, etc., we could stay HERE and spend our money HERE! How hard is that for some to understand?
4/11/2014 8:34:51 AM
The Badger Mountain Hermit says:
I guess the entire municipal budget from now on will only be enough to cover wages, benefits and pensions. From here on in, everything the city does will require them to borrow the money, each year, to do what they do. heat for schools, electricity, pencils, police cars, you name it...is that the future?
4/11/2014 8:30:00 AM
Richy says:
Sorry tbaycat my mistake you only had 30 protesters against.
4/11/2014 7:14:42 AM
tbaycat says:
Lol :) Which means your side had only 30 protesters for. Seems that NEITHER camp can get droves of people to come out to show their support!
4/11/2014 4:09:28 PM
thunder-bay-guy says:
This survey gas been in the news for awhile now. I'm not an LU student and I did the survey... 1 time. I did encourage my friends, family, and co-workers to take it as well, no matter their opinion. @tbayvoter you did the survey 10 times and the no side is still losing so should show you that there is a lot of support for the events centre. @chezhank I support a plebiscite as you do, but at the right time once we have all the information. As for your mayor in waiting signature, good luck you'll be waiting for a long time. @s Duncan. Instead of always being negative against development to move thunder bay forward, why not come up with some positive ideas or get out so the rest of us can move forward.
4/10/2014 11:20:44 PM
S Duncan says:
My comments are only "negative" if you do not agree with my position. If you agree with them, they clearly are "positive".

Its my position that moving this city forward would require less taxes, less government intrusion, more freedom, more personal choices, and allowing citizens to keep more of their hard earned money in their own pockets so they can spend as they see fit.. not how others tell them to spend it.

I do not like the rapid expansion of taxes and government welfare that's happening in Thunder Bay. I see that as a huge "negative".

I see people that are always wanting the taxpayers to buy or build them something as "negative".

Why do people hate Thunder Bay so much that they need to continually demand more bright shiny objects?

Why do people hate the Gardens? You don't go there to admire the building, you go for the game. If you hate it so much, then don't go, but don't tell the rest of us we have to buy you a new welfare dome.

Stop being so negative about Thunder Bay!
4/11/2014 8:34:18 AM
trips says:
@tbayvoter...you forgot that you have an isp ...that's why in the article the students would adjust the results ...your not as smart on the computer as me or the students but nice try rookie
4/10/2014 10:28:51 PM
S Duncan says:
I like how they say they have "ways to fix that" regarding their survey.

they admit it is biased and/or has been responded to with a bias.

..but yet it doesn't stop them from flapping their gums about it? The local fish wrap is touting it like it was a new, new testament.

at least Leith gave us a nice big question mark at the end of the headline "Serious support?" (thanks again Leith, you're doing very well under such circumstances, Im seriously impressed)

Ive done the survey twice as of now. Once the other day and once last evening. I chose similar responses and varied somewhat in percentages of how I wanted my money spent.

4/11/2014 8:55:36 AM
captain says:
And 70% people who voted so far on this site's polling question are against any tax hike to support an event centre.

we seem to have conflicting information accepting that the poll here is an unscientific as this one is on first glance
4/10/2014 10:13:41 PM
Tbayvoter says:
I did the survey myself.... A total of 10 times... IF you question HOW... Very simple... Do it once... clear your browser cache and cookies... restart your browser and go at it again.... Only reason I did this is to see if it was possible.... WELL guess what....lol So this tells me the results are worthless as I am NOT the only one to have tried this since it was pointed out to me by others...
4/10/2014 8:03:52 PM
sky high says:
So what that means is that the amount of people who DON'T want the Events Centre is artificially high on the survey results. Thanks for admitting that the NO side cheated Tbayvoter lol
4/10/2014 8:59:42 PM
S Duncan says:
yes its artificially high.

the true number of survey respondents that want the new welfare dome is somewhere around 164% with a +/- .5% margin of error.

So many people want it that they are going to pay 164% more than the total costs.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Congratulations on your new welfare dome!
4/10/2014 9:23:58 PM
tbayvoter says:
I have NOT decided either way sky high... So please refrain from putting words in my mouth so to speak... My point is to show that surveys such as this can be falsified to sway public opinion.
4/11/2014 10:12:34 AM
masaya says:
I hate to tell ya, but the vast majority of people who filled out this survey are, likely, not crazy enough to go through the effort of filling it out, clearing their cache and cookies, and filling it out again. If someone is willing to do that, they are probably the type of person who spends hours posting on these comment sections, or hours campaigning to be mayor...

Just because it is possible does not mean its likely.
4/11/2014 10:19:30 AM
richy says:
Maybe the mayor in waiting can get his crew of pot and pan bangers back down to city hall. This time maybe they will show up.
4/10/2014 7:59:21 PM
Clete says:
If the nay sayers don't like the results maybe they can get all of there supports was it 60 and get there pots and pans and protest again.
4/10/2014 7:28:37 PM
tbaycat says:
Hey Clete / Richy. Since this is the SECOND time you’ve posted the same derogatory comment (in two separate articles), I feel the need to finally set you straight. Those measly 60 protesters that you keep harping on about? Well they were made up of people from BOTH sides. Seems the “Pro” side, no matter how much they begged, couldn’t get people to show up either.

Here are a few excerpts from the “Citizens for a Downtown North Core Multiplex" face book page

“I encourage all supporters to show up early at City Hall, April 7 and fill the gallery space. We ask that supporters wear the colour green (no lime green please). If you don't have green, white is acceptable. We will be handing out stickers that say I support the Waterfront Event Centre.”

“ATTENTION: members of our group who wish to demonstrate their support can do so at City Hall on Monday, April 7, starting at 5:45. Council needs our support!”
4/10/2014 11:21:27 PM
tbaycat says:
Continued ...

“Well folks we are now at 2020 members and growing. Don't forget to show your support at City Hall April 7 at 5:45 pm.”

“I encourage anyone that is for the Multiplex to show up at City Hall, Monday April 7th at 5:45 to show your support.”

“I say, lets flood the front lawn of City Hall with supporters!”

“We do still want to see your pretty faces at City Hall though. I know that Dinner time is difficult for the Mom's and Dad's but please, if you can, come down for an hour of your time. It is time for the Silent Majority to stand up and be heard!”.

“I hope that we can get a large group out to city hall on monday night to show support for council and especially those from our group who will be giving deputations. Lets leave our pot's and pans at home.”

This last post just made me laugh. Apparently the “Pro side” supporters (all 2020 of them), not only decided to leave their "Pots and Pans” at home but decided to leave themselves at home also!
4/10/2014 11:28:50 PM
tbaycat says:

So Clete, Richy (and baor), please try to get a little more informed before you feel the urge to comment on topics that you are obviously not paying FULL attention to.
4/10/2014 11:31:07 PM
pseudo says:
Never heard of this survey, the 'other' news outfit (if one can even call it that) is using this to editorialize on how we all are willing to pay more FOR more.

I'd like a pony and a stable, but my debits must equal my credits or else I'm forced to borrow and that is only sustainable for so long.
4/10/2014 7:25:36 PM
unknowncronik says:
hahahahha, that's like asking kindergarten kids what the would rather have: cake or spinach....obviously the answer would be cake!

these university students will leave the city once they get their degrees & have no real bearing on what the actual tax paying, city residence want.

just another farce way of trying to get the town to vote yes in the marina location, nothing more...
4/10/2014 7:19:47 PM
Moosehead says:
Maybe this event centre and other things might lead to people wanting to stay in Thunder Bay instead of leaving when they receive their degrees. Obviously that isn't going to be the main reason but its one of the things people choose to look for when moving to a new place, jobs,schools,crime quality of life that all comes together... I moved out of town for work so I don't have a say in this FYI
4/11/2014 12:12:49 AM
tbaycat says:
Thanks for your honesty Moosehead. Too many people who used to live here but never plan to come back are trying to put their two cents into this conversation (see the Facebook page of “Citizens for a Downtown North Core Multiplex"). I have two boys. They had to move away many years ago because of the lack of employment here in Thunder Bay. I would be totally delusional if I thought they might come back home just because we were going to build a new, cool, multiplex. They live where they live because of economics. Proponents of this project who insist that this multiplex will keep youth here and bring others to Thunder Bay are the ones who are truly delusional. I prefer to live in the real world. Even though I know that means that I will never get my sons back….
4/11/2014 2:07:11 AM
farmgal says:
Who took the survey. We all know that the younger folks are in full agreement with the events centre. Did they survey randomly or did they just survey LU students?
4/10/2014 7:17:44 PM
sd says:
As some people have pointed out, but I feel it needs to be said again to get it through the heads of people like S Duncan, people from the opposition to the center are pointing their finger saying this survey means nothing or it was biased or unscientific. Well guess what folks you repeatedly used surveys conducted online by TBnewswatch and claimed they showed overwhelming numbers of people were against the center. So why is it that when one useless survey is on your side it is ok to cite as evidence but a survey that goes against your blind beliefs then it is not valid???
And while I agree these surveys are meaningless I do find it interesting that the ones conducted on this site have been close to a split while this LU shows a distinct tendency towards favoring the center.
Build this center. Build it downtown. Parking will not be an issue any more than it is anywhere else in town because people don't know how to park properly and are too lazy to walk more than a block.
4/10/2014 7:16:12 PM
humnchuck says:
So let me get this straight: 100 people at a meeting and Henry's powerpoint presentation and some dude talking about the Magna Carta was an absolutely valid expression of the prevalence of disgust for the events centre, but a survey of a couple thousand respondents cannot be so?

Got it.

4/10/2014 7:12:57 PM
tbaycat says:
Humnchuck. 100 people PHYSICALLY showing up at a rally should always trump “thousands” of virtual people who no one can prove "actually" exist. That’s why I’m TOTALLY against on-line voting in elections. Governments will never be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that on-line voting will be secure. Just look at the last few breaches of supposedly secure web sites ….. LOL … sorry, I digress ?………
4/11/2014 12:38:19 AM
EJ says:
The LU survey supposedly shows strong support and strong willingness to pay 6% higher taxes. However that conflicts with the ongoing tbnewswatch survey on this same page showing 69.3% against paying more taxes. I know we need a plan for the future but a $110 million event centre and 6% increase in my property taxes scares the hell out of me. That's almost $300 a year in my case.
4/10/2014 7:11:41 PM
loring says:
a question for all tbcc members how much of a tax hike is ok with you to pay for the events center???bet not one of them will answer
4/10/2014 6:49:46 PM
musicferret says:
Does anyone actually believe this survey is even remotely valid?
It was done online, could be done multiple times by people with IP blockers, and went moderately viral on Facebook.

If you have ever advertised on Facebook, you will know that there is a huge amount of people under the age of 35 who are also those same young people likely to support the events centre.
Nothing wrong with that, but lets be honest here: this survey has a margin of error of between 90-100%.
4/10/2014 6:48:31 PM
Enquirer says:
Uh oh. Opponents of the event centre, I ask, how are you going to spin this one?

"It wasn't a scientific poll! The results are useless!" - This means you can no longer point to that the artificially skewed TBNewswatch poll that saw over 1000 responses largely opposed to the events centre either.

I must say, this is going to be interesting to watch how these results get spun by opponents of the events centre. I completely agree this poll as well was highly unreliable as well, but you cannot point the finger at this one and dismiss it without first dismissing the poll which supported your opinions.
4/10/2014 6:26:47 PM
S Duncan says:
We don't have to spin it, your side, including the mayor already did it for us.

He claimed that online polls meant nothing and were not an accurate gauge of support.

so, if you want someone to blame for this poll being already shot down on the tarmac, blame the mayor.
4/11/2014 8:19:23 AM
Enquirer says:
Oh, but 'S Duncan', the problem is, your side uses the flawed TBNewswatch as the gospel when it comes to addressing the public opinion on the events centre.

This LakeheadU poll appears and all of a sudden opponents of the events centre suddenly become aware of the systematic flaws of online polls but put blinders on when it comes to addressing the poll which supported their opinions.

Look no further than the numerous posts on here and letters to the editor in other publications citing the massive '63 percent not in favour of the events centre' that responded to the TBNewswatch poll.

If leaders of the "Concerned Taxpayers of Thunder Bay" wished to show true leadership, they would request all members of their group to stay away from citing online polls as a gauge of public opinion, and yet, we see those very leaders citing these polls as evidence.

I want no one to blame for any poll being shot down; in fact, I wish to see them shot down due to the methodological errors in them!
4/11/2014 10:45:10 AM
enos012 says:
I'm ust curious by the time they build this and money supposedly starts rolling in are they going to lower taxes again? Maybe even lower than they are now? That's why the raise taxes no? Because they can't handle the cost of business? SO if they start making hand over fist are they going to give bak to the people in they way of tax breaks across the board....RIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTT
4/10/2014 6:22:20 PM
S Duncan says:
we paid greatly for a hospital that supposedly is a provincial responsibility.

when it was paid for and we were supposed to get tax relief for it, did we get it? nope!

tax dollars are like heroin to a politician. they just want more and more and more.

the welfare dome will never make money. It will drain money from the citizens of Thunder Bay. It will consume their not-so-discretionary income by taking it right from their wallets in the form of taxes.

those people will have less money to spend on welfare games down at the new walk-to-only welfare dome.

those restaurants will have less patrons because there will be no parking available because everyone will be at the welfare dome. they will be saddled with new, higher taxes designed to revive a dead area.

unless Commisso is Dr. Frankenstein in his personal time, I don't think anyone is actually getting revived at all.

he'll just have more abbynormal brains to chose from.
4/10/2014 9:38:30 PM
Eastender says:
Anybody can take the survey any number of times. It may be useful for students projects, but as a realistic evaluation of public sentiment it is pretty well useless.
4/10/2014 6:17:58 PM
Rob20 says:
Who exactly did they survey?

I'm sorry, if anybody seriously thinks it's going to significantly impact tourism and they are either naïve or incredibly stupid. No one is going to travel to Thunder bay just to see a concert. Not when they can see it in a bigger city that is close to them.

That statistic alone in the survey makes me think they did not really survey anyone outside of a very closed group that was already in favor of the event center.
4/10/2014 6:15:18 PM
S Duncan says:
you guessed correctly!

all other surveys clearly show a complete opposite result as this one did. We can safely throw this one in the garbage because it differs so greatly from any others thus far.

Its odd that it garnered its own news story with top billing though isn't it?

anybody can complete these surveys any number of times which makes them useless. Just as letters to the paper does and councillors that say they hear more support than not. Unless those people are tax paying voting citizens in Thunder Bay, their opinion means nothing.

Remember all those big survey companys that told us Ignatieff was in strong contention to be PM of Canada? LOL!! He got sent kicking stones back to the USA and Canada was blessed by an overwhelming strong Majority Conservative Government led by the Great Steven Harper for 4 more years.

and what happened to the liberals and the pollsters?

well, theres a saying... "Play stupid games, (and you) win stupid prizes!

The welfare dome is one of those.
4/10/2014 9:19:35 PM
ou812 says:
Last time I checked you had to be 18 to vote in an election. You don't have to own property or pay property taxes to vote.

You must sit at home and just steam about this Event Centre Duncan. It will happen and it will happen on the waterfront.
4/10/2014 10:45:49 PM
S Duncan says:
I didn't say tax payers OR voting citizens. I said tax paying voting citizens.

Unfortunately non tax payers are allowed to vote which is something I never felt was fair. If somebody isn't paying for services that our government tax dollars pay for, then you shouldn't have a say.

I know that's not the popular opinion but it is mine.

and I don't steam about the event center, I steam about the stupidity of my fellow citizen being too blind or ignorant to realize that once again Thunder Bay is being had by snake oil salesmen who promise the world, but only deliver a handful of stones.

I steam a bit about the location and its obvious shortcomings. Lets look at a successful private business here in town.. Intercity Mall. Look at how its laid out and functions. The building is surrounded by parking and has multiple entrances. Its centrally located, and serviced by 2 bus routes but yet the parking lot is always full.

and somebody thinks the welfare dome in downtown PA will thrive? no way!
4/11/2014 8:11:34 AM
AnonymousOne says:
I never heard about any survey, Ive only been away from LU from midnight - 9am everyday this week
4/10/2014 5:55:29 PM
sky high says:
This just confirms what I knew instinctively, that the majority of residents of Thunder Bay are forward thinking and want our city to survive. This proves that all those other silly surveys are being hammered on my the vocal minority---they vote a multitude of times and expect us to roll over and die. On we go, can't wait for the puck to drop and the first drum beat!!!
4/10/2014 5:54:45 PM
YellowSnow13 says:
So where is the web site on this article? I'd like to fill it in! Or is it just for LU Students to do? Is this another joke?
4/10/2014 5:51:31 PM
Scarefloor says:
4/10/2014 7:26:48 PM
ring of fire dude says:
Did the survey ask if the residents were in favor of their taxes skyrocketing , the cost to maintain the building and whether parking is a factor ? I'm sure everybody wants a shiny new arena but I believe most people are worried about paying for it and it's proposed location .
4/10/2014 5:40:54 PM
intel25 says:
The survey actually did ask all those questions plus more. you should probably check out the survey before commenting.
4/10/2014 6:15:39 PM
chezhank says:
Link to the survey.

Will this proposed event centre bring an econonic benefit to the area?

But the question still remains would you want to spend municipal monies on this project?

We need a referendum on the matter as our elected officials sadly did not give us a plebiscite,that could have been done Oct 27 during the municipal election.

henry wojak
mayor in waiting

4/10/2014 6:20:52 PM
fastball says:
Yes, I'm sure that thinking people realize that some portion of municipal funds will be used in construction - nobody thinks that this place will be built overnight by magic fairies working for free.
If everything goes according to Hoyle - TBay's share could be 30M or so dollars. We've got 24 in the bank already. We need to raise a bit more...which could be done with a combination of private/corporate monies, some minor tax levies or maybe even a local hotel surtax, as was suggested earlier. Either way, TBay is not going to pay the whole shot themselves. How many times does that need to be stated before it sinks in?
Why do you insist on asking questions to which there are no answers to at this time? Things will become clearer when we get some answers after the Stage 3 process is complete. Now quit your incessant moaning about your failed bid for a plebiscite at this time...it's over, done and dusted, and not gonna happen. So be a man, accept it and move on.
4/10/2014 7:27:04 PM
Sprague Street Superman says:
did you read that story in the cbc link mr. wojack provided?

this is much more than who is paying to build it, this is about yearly losses!!!! 1.2 million every year. why do you keep ignoring those losses?

go read that cbc story and tell us why thunder bay is so special that we will be different than all those other cities that got stuck with events centres. what makes thunder bay so much smarter that we will buck the proven trend across Canada!!!

did you already go from too early for a plebiscite to supporting none at all? that was fast!!!! your position is scary for the people in this city who are middle class or below!!!!
4/10/2014 10:52:36 PM
peas08 says:
I never did the survey nor could I attend the rally. No support here.
4/10/2014 5:38:15 PM
Ed itw says:
We would all like to have a new events center, new car, house and swimming pool.

The questions are can we afford to build it?

Can we afford to operate it?

If we build will they come?

4/10/2014 5:14:36 PM
SomeGuy says:
How much money do you think they expect to lose on the Events Centre? Do you know how much the gardens runs a deficit of?
4/10/2014 7:55:32 PM
S Duncan says:
$1.2 million per year! that's directly into the red, each and every single year!

the Gardens will continue to be a financial liability unless it is sold off. Even when the new welfare dome gets built, the gardens will still remain open and the ice surface will remain in operation claiming that we need another rink for rental ice time.

maybe the farm team for the farm team can play at the Gardens?

Welfare dome it is. Nothing more.
4/10/2014 8:57:07 PM
S Duncan says:
by the way, that's not the cost of construction or interest on the borrowed money.

(we have borrowed money for old folks homes that we were supposed to build and didnt in the renew Thunder Bay fund, that's how it got there)

so, we have to pay interest on the loan, we have to pay interest on the loans that we are borrowing for other needless things like road repair, sewer repair and stupid things like snow removal. We will have to service those debts as well as shoulder the construction costs.

We will also be eating other hidden expenses like bus terminal that nobody has yet acknowledged, the hydro substation, the enormous parking problem that everybody knows will occur and we'll get stuck building another parkade.

so, yes, its really affordable! We should hardly notice a difference in our tax bills at all.
4/10/2014 9:29:15 PM
Sprague Street Superman says:
1.2 million per year is a whole dozen municipal golf courses!!!! We closed one down for 100,000.00 per year loss, but we are gonna run a hockey rink at 12 times that amount, and we are supposed to be happy about it? what a waste!!!!
4/10/2014 10:46:53 PM
maltopian says:
Now go ahead and give the profits that this will generate. Nobody wants to come to a city full of nothing but rocks and rednecks.
4/12/2014 7:08:35 AM
fastball says:
And the FWG will run at a 800K operating cost this year. That's 1.2 Million for a brand new facility and the possible benefits that come with it....or 30% less for an aging, outdated building, whose costs will only go up every year? It's almost a wash.
What would you rather dump your money into - your old clunker, or pay just a bit more and get a new car?
4/11/2014 7:36:25 AM
S Duncan says:
unless the gardens is sold, the financial liability will remain.

you cant have your cake and eat it too.
4/11/2014 9:50:46 AM
Eastender says:
All three questions that are somehow, continually ignored by the event centre rah rah group.
I guess the good fairy of the east will magically pay for the cost overruns, bus terminal relocation, hydro substation relocation, parking infrastructure, etc etc.

People will flock to buy tickets at 100.00 bucks a pop because thats just pocket change, right ?

Of course they will come from miles around, especially in the winter time. Nothing like a challenging drive, dodging moose and trucks on the ice strewn highway of death to see a hockey game.
4/11/2014 12:46:56 AM
S Duncan says:
Yes, this lines up with all the other surveys as well!

Nothing says build, Build BUILD!! like an online survey!
4/10/2014 4:57:36 PM
Tannoy says:
If it doesn't line up with your opinion its wrong isn't it?
4/10/2014 6:12:37 PM
tiredofbull$ says:
Is this survey just for Thunder Bay taxpayers, a lot of the people completing this survey could live outside the city and it would not affect their taxes. Does it ask about the lawsuits against the city and who is going to pay for that, does it include the results of Resolute's asking MPAC about lowering their taxes and who is going to make up that difference. The only real survey that should count is from local taxpayer's in a plebiscite on Thunder Bay's Municipal Election. You can be from Vancouver B.C. and fill out these survey's and vote anyway you want because it does not affect your pocketbook.
4/10/2014 7:56:16 PM
Eastender says:
Couple of missing questions on this survey.
1. Do you feel your property taxes are 1. Low
2. About right
3. Too high
2. Are you willing to have your taxes increase to pay for the proposed event centre? 1. Yes. 2. No
3. How much higher would you be willing to have your property tax go up tp pay for the event centre per year?
1. $50
2. $100
3. $200
4. Whatever it takes

Now compare these answers to tne ones that are for the event centre. I think the results would be in conflict with one another.

4/12/2014 11:45:26 AM
joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
Stop showing the "MA-ARENA" pics!

The site is USELESS & will cause more issues in the long run...

Build the ARENA on the outskirts of the city & other businesses will follow in & around the new events center.

ANY PLACE would be better than the marina for this tax payers nightmare, but the new hotels were promised it would be built @ the marina I'm sure.

Even move the airport towards Kakebeka & put the arena in it's place along with a 1/4 mile track from the old air strips!

This way, airplanes no longer need to fly dangerously directly over the city daily anymore when there is nothing but bush ALL around us!!
4/11/2014 2:15:51 AM
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