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2014-04-11 at 13:07

Adjust for funding?

An aerial view of a proposed event centre. City officials say updated images will be available soon.
City of Thunder Bay handout
An aerial view of a proposed event centre. City officials say updated images will be available soon.
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By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com

A 200-space parking structure appears to be the only likely casualty as the city tries to reduce the scope of a proposed event centre to qualify for millions in federal funding.

Michael Smith, the city’s general manager of facilities, fleets and transit services, on Friday said eliminating the parking structure could drop the project below the $100-million mark, making it eligible under the recently announced $14-billion, 10-year Building Canada fund.

Anything above $100 million has to go through the federal government’s P3 funding program.

“Certainly the parkade is something that we would look at,” Smith said. “The parkade in the original Phase 2 feasibility study was $6 million, which really took it from the $100-million (cost) to the $106 million.

So the parkade is still something we’re out there looking at, saying, do we really need this?”

He added a parking and traffic study is part of the already under way Phase 3 study, expected to be completed in June.

“We’re of the belief that the parking structure is not required, which puts us into that $100-million category.”

The facility itself will remain as planned, Smith said.

Last month Mayor Keith Hobbs suggested city officials might try to lower the cost to closer to $90 million, which might have means dropping the number of seats to 5,000.

Smith on Friday said the multi-use facility, if approved by city council and built, he noted – will still have 5,700 seats, 50,000 square feet of convention space and a restaurant.

“We’re not anticipating that we’re going to have to scale it back as we go forward,” Smith said.

“Having said that, we’re certainly not going to design the facility just to meet the criteria of these potential funding sources. “

Those funding sources would require a one-third, one-third, one-third level of participation, including both the province and City of Thunder Bay and its partners. The city at present has about $22.5 million squirreled away, part of the Renew Thunder Bay fund.
Smith also addressed the ongoing question of the Thunder Bay hydro substation that would have to be moved for the event centre to be located in the downtown north core, the city’s preferred location.

He said the $2.3 million required to move the station has always been included in the proposed budget. A short-term solution would be sought to house it until Thunder Bay Hydro’s long-term plan to replace the facility is in place.

Smith said without the event centre the substation would likely remain in place for a little more than a decade.

A pedestrian walkway from the proposed event centre to Marina Park remains part of the plan.
Smith is hopeful that applications to the Building Canada fund can be made in the early fall, possibly by the end of September.

“That’s our timeline and we’ve been told that it will probably take approximately six months to hear back. That would put us into potentially Phase 4, if everything fell into place, which would be the construction, late in the spring of 2015.”

Kenora MP Greg Rickford and local MPPs Bill Mauro have voiced support for the project, but all have stopped short of promising money would be made available. Prime Minister Stephen Harper is on record saying the federal government won’t support construction of hockey arenas, though the city believes the convention centre aspect might help Thunder Bay’s cause.

Council has yet to approve construction, and on Monday rejected a call from Neebing Coun. Linda Rydholm to hold an Oct. 27 plebiscite in conjunction with the municipal election on continuing the project.

 

Tbnewswatch.com(141)

Banner/Vector Construction

Comments

We've improved our comment system.
chezhank says:
Councillor Ruberto brought up the idea Monday night(April 07) at council of not building the $6.8 million 200 car parkade to keep the proposed event centre under $100 million to be eligible for the federal Build Canada Fund.
The consultant recommended a 200 car parkade.
I will attend the open house to look over the city's draft Official Plan and will focus a bit on parking......because it apparently does not address parking.

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/11/2014 1:19:42 PM
Synical says:
I politely request that you stop signing your posts with "mayor in waiting", considering it's a blatant lie. Unless you've been voted in without anyone noticing, you're misleading people.

That presumptuous attitude is one of the many reasons I will never vote for you.
4/11/2014 1:50:27 PM
TBDR says:
And if he hasn't put his name in yet, I believe it is also a violation of the Municipal Elections rules, thus making him potentially ineligible to run.
4/11/2014 4:51:10 PM
Eastender says:
Lighten up
4/12/2014 12:02:59 AM
BetterThunderBay says:
There is some wording about parking in it Henry, personally, I thought it was plenty. If you do bring it up, I'd definitely recommend reducing parking minimums in the zoning code and making sure that any new large parking areas are discouraged. It's very poor land use and doesn't make the city much money.
4/11/2014 2:49:25 PM
chezhank says:
@ BetterThunder Bay
Well I have found out that the location of the proposed event centre is in a C5 Zone and no parking spaces are required within that zone for any building except for a building containing 4 or more dwelling units in which case 0.25 parking spaces per dwelling unit are required.Sect 5.15.5.of the Zoning by-laws.

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/12/2014 4:21:34 PM
p.o.ed taxpayer says:
Not to worry Henry, probably already negotiating for property to purchase for parking, but won't be sprung on the people until after the fact. Use whatever means they can to keep things moving ahead. Bet the Mayor can't wait to put on his hockey groupie jersey...
4/11/2014 3:32:33 PM
ibrando says:
Hank, here is something for you to chew on. Charlottetown recently opened their waterfront convention centre paid for by the federal and provincial governments. There was an agreement to physically attach it to the Delta Prince Edward Waterfront Hotel...hmmmm...Delta...why does that sound familiar? Just Sayin. If they want to get the cost below 100mil, build it were it makes the most sense and will actually increase the City's tax base, Innova Park!
4/11/2014 4:10:41 PM
S Duncan says:
Yes, its extremely interesting that Delta hotels managed to convince the PEI provincial and our conservative federal governments to pony up a heck of a lot of money to build a new convention center attached to their hotel.

As usual, it went significantly over budget and lots of behind the scene lawsuits ensued.

http://www.nb.dailybusinessbuzz.ca/section/2013-08-30/article-3370051/PEI%3A-Charlottetown-convention-centre-%247-million-over-budget/1

Is it strictly a coincidence that as soon as our city announced the location and plans for our new welfare dome, that Delta Hotels all of a sudden became our hotelier?

it would be a heck of a coincidence since they had just hoed that row in PEI.

Did our city administration in their desperation to justify our waterfront hotel development sign us up for a new welfare dome that we cannot afford?

With all the secret meetings the city had and delay after delay in announcing a hotelier, how can we not suspect some prearrangement?

many do!
4/13/2014 10:03:56 AM
unknowncronik says:
The "MA-ARENA" location is such a joke!

We have ample space to build all around this town, yet the worst location wins?

Just more Thunder Bay logic that makes you go "hmmmm"

U. Cronik
pothead in waiting
4/13/2014 5:20:09 AM
fastball says:
Would be nice to have some parking there - if just to remove one arrow from the opponents' seemingly inexhaustible quiver of complaints. But if something's gotta give to get under the 100M mark and be eligible for 30/30/30 funding, I'll give up parking next to the door. Saving the taxpayer an additional 6M and getting funding is far more preferable than parking for 200 cars.
Last time I checked, I was capable of walking a block or two....even in the cold.
4/11/2014 1:21:29 PM
TBDR says:
What would likely happen is a parking lot instead of a parkade. That would mean about 100 instead of 200 spots. Still a net gain though.
4/11/2014 1:36:45 PM
common cents says:
I agree 110%, perhaps eliminate all 200 spots just to be sure.

All I can think of is the net gain of my property valves, know that the youth will no longer be leaving our city..

Buy now people the prices of houseing can only double, maybe triple once this place is built!


$$$$$$$$$$$

Build it Already$
4/11/2014 9:18:02 PM
S Duncan says:
The truth is with poor parking people will be far less likely to attend an event.

Lets be honest here, people are lazy. We want to take the path of least resistance. Its human nature and its evident all around you.

If someone is on the fence about attending a particular event or the same boring hockey game over and over again, if the parking stinks, they simply will be less likely to go.

When you construct things you have to factor ergonomics, what is comfortable for people, and not just you, for people in general.

The poor parking will without doubt be a significant factor in attendance at any of these events in the welfare dome. Pretending that's not the case will only further hurt your cause.

If its going to be built, unless it is easily and conveniently accessible, attendance will certainly suffer, and if we can identify such an enormous fault this early in the game, they better address it now.

perhaps they can save some by not putting up bronze statues Hobbs and Commisso?
4/11/2014 1:58:18 PM
fastball says:
Honestly, give your head a shake. The vast majority of TBay resident that will see the use of this thing in its lifetime are the younger (less than 50 year old crowd)...and they seem to have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM walking a block or two. The current 20-30 year-old crowd will be able to walk from their cars for the next 3 decades. It's the current older crowd that seems absolutely incapable of even considering that concept.
Seriously, if I pay 24 to 100 dollars per ticket to see an event - I'm damned well going, and if I walk a block...oh well. Or I'll take a bus, or taxi, or shuttle, or get dropped off at the door while my kid parks the car and walks for a minute.
God knows, if it really really is such a problem, maybe the city will arrange for an couple of abandoned properties in the area to be converted to a smaller lots.
You've been cocooned in TBay too long. The rest of the world manages to see things, despite having to walk more than 100 meters.

4/11/2014 4:36:44 PM
ou812 says:
The lack of parking never kept me from going to the Gardens and I always managed to find a spot. Parking is not a big issue with the event centre.
4/11/2014 11:52:12 PM
S Duncan says:
are you the only person attending the welfare dome?

if you want it to be a success, you have to cater to as many people as possible.

We all have different limits of what we will put ourselves through to see something. We have limits on how much we will pay etc..

these limits are different for everyone and totally dependent on how important the attraction is for each person.

Parking IS a big issue with the welfare dome, that's why even this foolish city development was building a parking structure. It IS important. Pretending it isn't only makes you look uninformed.

but that's all the supporters seem to be.. uninformed.
4/12/2014 9:42:09 AM
keiths31 says:
How many blocks do you currently walk to get to the Gardens? I highly doubt you will get any parking spaces within a block or two.
4/11/2014 2:23:56 PM
rob20 says:
Not everyone is capable of walking 3 blocks. Persons with mobility issues don't count? Where are we to park?
4/11/2014 2:29:19 PM
S Duncan says:
these people only care about themselves, they don't care about you, me, or their children either.. they just want welfare hockey at any cost.
4/11/2014 6:37:24 PM
common cents says:
No ones knows, Just build it already!
4/11/2014 7:35:24 PM
fairlane says:
I'm guessing those people with mobility issues don't drive. They have someone drop them off at the door, park, then meet them up.
4/14/2014 8:16:28 AM
S Duncan says:
So the person with the mobility issue must wait unattended while the attendee goes off on a 20 minute adventure to park the car?

Then after the event, the same thing happens?

If you dont seriously think issues like this will negatively effect the success of the welfare dome you are living in denial or wallowing in ignorance.

How far into the realm of stupidity will pro welfare dome people take themselves to justify their greed for welfare entertainment?

The desperation to have taxpayers fund your recreation has an awful stink to it.
4/14/2014 10:14:25 AM
Wolfie says:
"That would put us into potentially Phase 4, if everything fell into place, which would be the construction, late in the spring of 2015.”

Best news of the week. The sooner, the better!
4/11/2014 1:24:54 PM
Joecat says:
Forget the built in parkade. There are two others in the immediate proximity and other options for parking.
Thunder Bay should get used to paying for parking downtown like EVERY OTHER city in the country.
4/11/2014 1:29:35 PM
S Duncan says:
Youre setting this welfare dome up for failure with that attitude.

How do you attract people here by being like EVERY OTHER city in the country?

The location is terrible. If you want it to succeed in that location the answer is not to turn a blind eye to an obvious problem, its to address the shortcomings now, not a decade from now when it flops even bigger that most people already know it will.

A successful business model wouldn't be one that tells everybody what to do, its one that accommodates everybody how they are.

Every private business knows that you want ease of access to get people in your door. Why doesn't the city know this?...??

...because none of these people on council or management have ever had a successful business in their whole lives. You have a bunch of public dollar hounds trying to run an already sketchy business practice that's professionally projected to lose $1.2 million every year..

and the city is doing their best to make it lose even more!
4/11/2014 2:06:30 PM
DustInTheWind says:
I like how the article states "The city at present has about $22.5 million squirreled away, part of the Renew Thunder Bay fund."

I am not going to be one of those under 50 that will be using this nor will I be one of the taxpayers paying for it neither. Have at er.

Any tickets sold for an event when this thing gets build which we all know that anyone opposed to the deal is getting railroaded into it should have a additional surcharge added on just like Hydro's debt retirement that we are still paying for.

In other news...another water main break near Neebing and Frederica. Renew Thunder Bay one water main break at a time.
4/11/2014 1:30:33 PM
Kam River says:
Hope Bill and Michael Gravelle are watching the polls,Thursday NewWatch poll 68% are not willing to absorb a tax hike for the Multiplex. People will remember if Bill and Michael force this tax increase on us.
The Mayor and Aldo will do anything to get his build.
4/11/2014 1:31:19 PM
SomeGuy says:
Cause TBnewswatch polls are accurate and are true gauge of what people think.
4/11/2014 2:01:47 PM
DougMyers says:
It's interesting how the opponents will use biased survey to support their means but say that another survey is irrelevant.

Tell me, how would Mikey and Billy push a municipal tax increase on you?
4/11/2014 2:06:27 PM
common cents says:
the polls mean nothing

My house and lots will now triple in price, as the young generation will no longer be moving away once this events center is built.

Built it now. So I can sell my house $$$$$$
4/11/2014 9:06:44 PM
fastball says:
You gotta help me here....how can a TbNewswatch poll be held up as THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE - while the LU poll is considered statistical garbage?
4/11/2014 2:14:15 PM
humnchuck says:
Can the next poll be about blocking the used-to-death term "welfare dome"?
4/11/2014 4:21:49 PM
S Duncan says:
if poll results had any affect on things, we wouldn't be reading this story.

the welfare dome would have died a long time ago.
4/11/2014 6:40:01 PM
Eastender says:
Its shaped like a dome.
It depends almost entirely on public funding for its existence.
Do you see the connection?
4/12/2014 10:25:10 AM
common cents says:
Kam give your head a shake,

What the Mayor and Aldo are is the best thing for this city!

Our kids will no longer want to leave this city for thier studies. Students will flock from far and wide to attend our university and college....

do your math!

More Students =

1)more housing
2)More Professors,instructors security/ parking cops, janitorial staff
3)Expansion of Con College & LU
4)More construction jobs
5)More Clubs/Bars and restuarants
6)More bouncers, police and taxi/bus drivers
7)More attendance at LU sporting events
8)Construction of a new Comedy District bus terminal.

The list is endless..

build it already $$$$$$
4/11/2014 9:45:39 PM
Eastender says:
Common cents: if you had any, you would understand that someone looking to further their education like a "student" does not make that decision based on wether there is an event centre in the vicinity.
Students are looking first for a quality university, second for affordability. An event centre does'nt even enter the picture.
Event centres are funded by tax hikes. Significant tax hikes, like hundreds of dollars a year, per houshold.
Tax hikes increase costs to universities who pass those costs on to students. Tax hikes raise rents, creating financial hardships for every one including students.
There will not be one more single student at the university on account of the welfare dome.
4/12/2014 6:52:19 PM
keeppplintbay says:
Thunder Bay has to give a reason for its youth to stay in Thunder Bay! An Event Centre is a start. Give the youth something to look forward too. Give the University and College students from other cities a reason to say something positive about our city and possibly stick around after they get their degree. People from around our region will come to this Event Centre because there is nothing else like it around.

If you have to walk a block or 2 then so be it. Its only in Thunder Bay where people complain about parking. Imagine a time in the future when everyone can gather around a central location (Event Centre, Marina Park)! Park at one location and WALK around the entire area! This is what successful cities have! Not only will businesses will do better but it will keep some of our youth out of trouble.

Please stop thinking about useless points like parking and start thinking about the future of this city that will slowly disappear if not given a reason to stay!
4/11/2014 1:41:25 PM
S Duncan says:
So crumbling roadways, decrepit sewer systems, a city council that wont allow its citizens a simple and free plebiscite, ridiculously high taxes and going even higher is a great batch of reasons for youth to stay here?

is a city that chooses to take money from its citizens to build a flashy building in a poor location with no parking even though its primary goal is to achieve large crowds a good reason for young people to stay here?

If people cant say anything positive about Thunder Bay already, they wont say anything better once this welfare dome gets built.

If you want to be like those other "successful" citys so badly, why are you still here?
4/11/2014 3:13:09 PM
SomeGuy says:
A plebiscite is not free, it was clearly stated at last council meeting that will cost $350,000 hardly free.

You are aware that if 51% turn out to vote and they vote yes we are legally bound to build this even if no other funding comes through right?
4/11/2014 7:05:41 PM
S Duncan says:
Lies!

a stand alone plebiscite may have cost as much as $200K. One on October's ballots would have been almost free!

Stop making up lies to suit your agenda. Tell yourself those lies if you must, but don't try to present them as facts to everybody else.

c'mon, if youre going to argue this issue, at least get up on the wheel first!
4/11/2014 9:58:43 PM
mystified says:
It is going to be built so stop your whining. People are getting tired of your same old complaint. Find something new and move on, or out of the city limits into financial freedom.
4/11/2014 8:06:10 PM
Darrell B says:
If anything is going to get Thunder Bay booming its going to be the Ring of Fire & not a event center. Most young people would rather play xbox & playstation 4 then attend anything at the event center. Unlike the 70's most of our young people now skate along the boards however our young people have eye hand coordination that puts my generation to shame. A little city like Thunder Bay can easily get to this event center if they put it in Novo Park. I was in Toronto recently & getting from one part to another was like going here to Nipigon. We also have this very old invention called the bus.
4/11/2014 5:58:09 PM
rob20 says:
This is becoming an utter joke. The marina site was an atrocious selection based on parking when the 200 car parkade was included.... and now you want to remove it? Are you kidding me?

First off, the "EXPERTS" recommended it. So now we're not following the expert consultants? Or just when it aligns with city councils egos & wants to get it done their way?

Now what, we're pushing people out from a 3 block radius to 4, 5, 6 parking radius to have to walk?

Wasn't park of the parkade cost to redo the overpass?? -- which is needed if you expect the marina to be utilized as parking!

Where is someone with a mobility impairment - walker, wheelchair, amputee, severe breathing issues, etc - supposed to park? 5 blocks away? Really?

And city council wonders why the people of this city have no respect for their decision making? Wow...
4/11/2014 1:50:26 PM
The Cougar says:
Uncertainty.

This whole thing is based on a bunch of uncertainty. Just a bunch of loudmouths blowing smoke up each other's hind ends. Until funding is 100% confirmed, all the armchair city planners should just cool off.
4/11/2014 1:50:58 PM
The Beaver..... says:
Inova would have come in under that price to be begin with. Next thing that would bring down the price would be to cut the number of toilets in half
4/11/2014 2:03:15 PM
old vienna says:
Spring of 2015 is when the horror movie begins folks. This will be a never ending nightmare for the taxpayers of thunder bay. Montreal and Abbotsford move aside you are about to have company for the biggest money losing venues in Canada and all of North America.
4/11/2014 2:09:33 PM
redneckswife says:
what i dont understand is people can barely live now on their income. with the hydro hike it puts people more in the hole. why build this stupid multiplex when we REALLY dont need it, and up our taxes, so people for real cant live. what about these people on pensions? fixed incomes? a family to raise and a parent getting laid off? more older people staying at home and moving in with their kids? has anyone thought about these? or are we just trying to compete with another city? this is outragous. the FWG is fine, but no, lets build a new building that more then half our population doesnt want! just like the new court house, why!? because our council loves to spend money that isnt theirs! im a young women that, yes, has a lot to learn. but i know when my money is being spent on things i do not want!
4/11/2014 2:10:33 PM
Darrell B says:
The mayor & city council should also get their heads out of the 70's. Young people now play xbox, play station 4, & are not going to spend a dime to see any NHL farm team. They will do like everybody else & wait for the results on the news. Like it or not I guess this thing is going to be built but at least put it in that Novo Park area. Nothing there but weed trees, weeds, & tall grass. That area needs to be built up. Down Town PA is beautiful the way it is & doesn't need this thing to ruin it.
4/11/2014 5:44:30 PM
sam says:
If people think it is going to be a block or two they got rocks in their heads. Do the math, or better still take a look…either the parking is there or it is not. The question will be are people prepared to park 5 or 6 blocks away.
4/11/2014 2:11:50 PM
papercut says:
Great.....STICK IT IN INNOVA PARK....then we won't need a parkade!!!!!!

DUH
4/11/2014 2:13:31 PM
cachinnate says:
If your building a hockey arena, fine, put it in the middle of nothing.
But for a convention, conference, and otherwise multi-use type centre, it is best suited to be located in close proximity to other amenities....aka entertainment, restaurants, attractions etc. I understand how may don't get the concept, but having attended many types of conferences / conventions over the years, all across Canada... the best ones were at facilities within walking distance to other entertainment.
4/11/2014 9:42:35 PM
S Duncan says:
nice to see my favourite picture accompanying this article!
4/11/2014 2:25:22 PM
BetterThunderBay says:
Parking is incredibly expensive, this is a sensible suggestion to save some money. It will also encourage multiple transportation modes. I like the idea.
4/11/2014 2:43:11 PM
S Duncan says:
Its incredibly expensive when you put it in a stupid location with no available real estate.

One dumb decision just compounds the next.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!
4/11/2014 3:24:31 PM
BetterThunderBay says:
Parking is incredibly expensive anywhere when you consider the costs associated with it, location isn't part of my argument.
4/11/2014 4:14:04 PM
S Duncan says:
wrong again.

parking is incredibly expensive when you have to build parkades and multi level parking units due to lack of available real estate.

parking is much less expensive when you don't have to construct special structures and congest them into a very limited space.

How does every other place with parking lots ever survive? Intercity manages to make out, tons of sports arenas, shopping malls, plazas etc.. all manage to provide parking.

yet, Thunder Bay cannot?

yeah folks, we got a real winner on our hands!

LOL can you say Bankrupt? that's where this is headed already, but they will just take more of the stupid people's money to cover up their mistakes... that's what they always do.

and its obvious many of you are lining up to hand over more money.

Sheep are meant to be sheared!
4/11/2014 5:33:04 PM
BetterThunderBay says:
You are reading far more into my comment than I actually said. Of course parkades are more expensive per space than surface parking. That said, surface parking is still more expensive than you give it credit for and arguably more damaging to the city. Of course intercity does ok, this town is built on the idea of using huge tracts of land, much of it public space to store private property. I think that it's not good policy and could be put to much better use, I can see that you disagree.

There are entire books written on parking policy, they're good reading. "The High Cost of Free Parking" is a popular one that starts some interesting conversations. It's not particularly constructive to have this conversation in the comments here, but for what it's worth, I think there are more variables than you are considering. Some open minded consideration of the consequences of our parking policies might change your mind if you do some research on it.
4/11/2014 10:26:44 PM
Arch Stanton says:
My, this 'Event Centre' sounds like SUCH a well worked-out plan, doesn't it?????????????!
4/11/2014 2:56:05 PM
big joe mufferaw says:
Reduce the parking? Now the place is even more useless!
4/11/2014 3:05:49 PM
Common cents says:
Sorry but I just had to laugh at your comment.

Build it Already $$$$$$$


Show support for our Comedy District
4/11/2014 11:56:23 PM
S Duncan says:
How did this go from 'we don't have enough information to make a decision' to all of a sudden starting construction next year?

A few weeks ago our careless talking mayor told us we didn't know enough. Now thanks to magic, we do?

Ifs and buts quickly became the mayor is nuts!

I guess Delta must have a deadline that the city needs to satisfy or else we get another law suit to deal with?

How can we pay so much for supposedly top notch city management and solicitors and still end up getting handed lawsuits every second week?

was this part of the Delta deal? of course it was! The city in its desperation to fulfil one expensive dream locked us into another that we cant afford.

OK private funders and big talkers... its time for you to start coughing up some cash! Put your money where your mouths are.
4/11/2014 3:21:45 PM
bttnk says:
Good! Parking should be left to private enterprise. I've talked to several downtown land owners who are prepared to open their lots up to event parking and others who are prepared to convert vacant lots to parking.

I have no problem walking 2-10 blocks to attend an event, a 5 minute walk really isn't a big deal. Others can leverage public transit, etc.

Looking forward to late spring 2015 when the shovels hit the dirt!
4/11/2014 3:40:36 PM
Joecat says:
Losing the parkade to secure funding is a worthwhile sacrifice
On site parking would still be available, albeit reduced. Spots for those with disabilities would still be available.
Existing parkades are within a 2 block radius on red river and court.
Development is required for growth, a center such as this would promote growth in the area and if parking becomes an issue, more parking will become available via market demand.
The existing FWG is dated useless as an event center, anyone who has seen a performance there can attest to the terrible acoustics and generally pour design.
4/11/2014 3:41:02 PM
ring of fire dude says:
And how is another cement and steel structure like the E.Center going to sound any better than the Gardens ?
4/11/2014 5:11:49 PM
Wolfie says:
Maybe there have been some developments in the world of acoustical engineering over the past 63 years?
4/11/2014 6:56:04 PM
Today1 says:
It will probably be steel beams and tin, like the airport treminal, an oversized culvert. Any building can have its accoustics changed.
4/12/2014 9:20:39 AM
beachgirl says:
The marina is already so congested. There is already a lack of parking. Innova park seems like a much better area. The Ottawa multi plex is about 25min from the downtown area. It works for them why not for us? Innova is still in the centre of the city. Just closer to the hwy's to get traffic moving quicker.
4/11/2014 4:17:08 PM
fastball says:
You've never been to Kanata then, have you? They built an arena in the middle of nowhere - and EVERYONE has to drive there now....on a road paid for by the provincial government because the owner couldn't ran out of money to pay for it.
4/11/2014 5:15:41 PM
WJohnston says:
Hey! I live there. It's not the middle of nowhere. It's on the edge of the western suburbs and there are new developments past it. It is way out of town though and everybody does have to drive there.

The road (actually a highway overpass and exits) was not paid for by the provincial government, even though it's on a provincial highway. The arena owner paid for the overpass. The province took it over after it was built.

There's a longish article here about why the arena is in Kanata by the guy who built it. http://www.obj.ca/Opinion/Bruce-Firestone/2009-04-27/article-278677/Why-Scotiabank-Place-is-in-Kanata/1.

In Ottawa's case this was probably the best available site, but only because complicated politics between the NCC and other levels of government prevented building in LeBreton flats. That would have been a much more central location and better in the long run.
4/11/2014 8:40:54 PM
Wolfie says:
"It works for them why not for us?"

It works terribly for them. Worst arena location in Canada.
4/11/2014 7:01:42 PM
User Name: says:
Scrap the parking structure? What's the point of even having it built in the downtown core, then?
4/11/2014 4:58:32 PM
Common cents says:
it will help revitalize our

Comedy District

why cant we just build it already????
4/12/2014 12:19:47 AM
Reignmaker says:
I see a lot of "I can walk" statements. Good for you also t of people can't. You know why that matters? Because we have a limited base of people who will attend events. Limiting it further will not help it succeed.

For the people saying that people walk a few blocks now, yes that is true. However, the gardens is not in a densely populated entertainment district that already has parking issues frequently. There is almost nothing around the gardens. Good luck with a few blocks downtown. If anything, this will make the businesses suffer from people trying to get to them but being unable.
4/11/2014 5:07:24 PM
chezhank says:
The consultant recommended building a 200 car parkade.("the City could
potentially realize an additional $91,800 to $129,600 in revenue from this parkade").
Councillor Ruberto and now Michael Smith,general manager of facilities, fleets and transit services suggest not putting in a 200 car parkade.
The consultant recommended building in the waterfront location.
Some members of the public do not agree with that location,but are told we hired a consultant and follow his expert opinion.

I am quite sure that there are more worthwhile projects that the city can pursue that meet the requirements of the Build Canada Fund.

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/11/2014 5:24:17 PM
S Duncan says:
so now its going to lose even more money.

great!. The city hall experts must be deliberately trying to sink this thing, its the only way they could come up with these stupid decisions.

Isnt it strange how the experts are experts when they agree with them, but when the experts are wrong, all of a sudden Ruberto is an expert?

Financial doom awaits Thunder Bay. Our population will decrease at an increasing rate for sure which will further burden those silly enough to stay here.
4/11/2014 6:02:10 PM
Darrell B says:
I still wish this unnecessary thing would at least go to Novo Park area. Nothing there but weed trees & grass & needs to be built up. Down town PA is nice the way it is & dosn't need this crap there. If its not broken don't fix it. At least people should have a say to where it is going to go. Shoving something down peoples throats & where it's going to go just pisses people off. A mayor & council acting like Dukes & Duchesses of Thunder Bay can easily be replaced. Don't listen to the majority of people in Thunder Bay & see what happens.
4/11/2014 5:27:54 PM
humnchuck says:
Where's "Novo Park"?

And I agree with you, treasures in downtown PA like the Shoreline and the city transit terminal shoudl be preserved for their "niceness".
4/11/2014 7:07:19 PM
Sideways says:
Reign maker I love two blocks from the gardens when some moron parks in my driveway to go to the gardens. I should thank you for pointing out that the gardens area is not congested. Wow I am glad to have that figured out now. It is only a problem if it is a entertainment district.
4/11/2014 6:02:52 PM
rbosch says:
Henry Wojak and his band of negative doomsdayers. Have any of you even read the Phase 2 report? If you had, you would know that the consultants DID NOT recommend any of 3 options laid out. The 3 options were identified and quantified and they were: build an underground parkade within the Centre, build a 200 vehicle parkade along with negotiating for an additional 100 spaces within the downtown and negotiate with the downtown private citizens to make arrangements for 300 additional spaces. It is absolutely clear in the report that NONE of the 3 were "recommended". Phase 3 will address all 3, The underground is the most expensive, the parkade is next and the 300 spaces is the cheapest. There are over 1200 privately owned spaces, over and above the Municipal parking that is there. All of this is within 800 Meters of the Event Centre. A review of the FACTS is being finalized and it will be posted in the near future. Please read it and then make a decision, not listen to this bunch
4/11/2014 6:33:55 PM
Common cents says:
Rod please read this and tell me it any different....

http://www.moosejawmultiplex.com/moose-jaw-multiplex-parking.html

We await your reply
4/12/2014 4:38:02 PM
S Duncan says:
that's a very telling site.

people need to read it, theres so many similarities with our proposed welfare dome and the obvious and not so obvious tricks used to justify a new hockey rink.

the parking tab explains the desperation to justify the chosen location even though it was obvious it wouldn't work. the FAQ page has some simple, clear explanations, the debt raised, my favourite parts are how the population remained stagnant and no measurable gains were made to the tax base or increased revenue.

Our own study back in 06 clearly shows that people from within the city typically go straight to, and straight home from events, and that the average person that comes in from out of town spends a whole $100/person including accommodations(!) to come to a welfare dome event.

the writing is so clearly on the wall, but if you cant read, or purposely choose to not open your eyes, you will never get the clear and obvious message.

Just say no to the welfare dome, and those that support it.
4/12/2014 11:07:50 PM
S Duncan says:
"adjusting for funding" is just a politicians excuse for a little something known as the "'ol bait and switch".

Where have we seen this before? Where they sell us on one idea, officially claim support for it, then actually produce a completely different product?

Wasn't this what happened with the boutiques at the condos??

yes.. its all too familiar again.

and why cant we make comments on the sault ste marie mayor's comments?
4/11/2014 6:46:52 PM
Leith Dunick says:
Comments are now open. I think that was a mistake. Play nice though.
4/11/2014 9:12:50 PM
Enquirer says:
My goodness! Thank heavens!

My stomach was simply in knots because it had been approximately 12 hours since TBNewswatch published an article/opinion/letter to the editor about the events centre.

Crisis: Averted.

Say, Leith, I think we are about due for another letter from Ray Smith or Henry "Mayor in Waiting" Wojak. Can you get on that? I feel like we haven't heard enough from them in particular yet.

Speaking of which, as I write this, we are 51 comments deep in this article. Time for another events centre article I think!
4/11/2014 7:22:39 PM
Leith Dunick says:
I think the possible loss of the parking structure warrants a story. Also wanted to answer the substation question as it's been debated. We plan to cover Tuesday's pro-waterfront group meeting too. Sorry, but it's the No. 1 topic in town right now. After that it'll probably slow down a bit until June when the Phase 3 report is brought to council. And we'll likely be in provincial election mode in a few weeks too.

And trust me, we don't publish everything Ray, Henry and Jon send us.
4/11/2014 9:21:45 PM
Enquirer says:
Leith, if you wish to split hairs, then I will agree, you do not publish EVERYTHING those three send you; however, you cannot deny the fact that like clockwork on a weekly basis you publish more from these people. Should they be silenced for the frequency of writing? Of course not; but I find it hard to believe no one else writes in. You engage in mere sensationalism because you know it gets debate started.

Once again, No. 1 topic or not, is it appropriate to have nearly 2-3 new articles on the events centre published daily? Why not update one with relevant new information?

It is a news outlet duty to publish news, but frankly, you are insulting mine and everyone else's intelligence if you want to preach the idea 'letting the people have a say'; you never did address my points on advertising revenue from these people. Why not?

I am going to hold you to your word, Leith: In a few weeks, you will slow the frequency of these stories and focus on other matters. Let's see if you can!
4/11/2014 9:46:02 PM
Leith Dunick says:
There are seven, eight letters on our site right now. One from Henry.

As for event centre stories, there have been protests, meetings, council debates and other information coming forward in the last couple of weeks, so yes, we've published a number of stories.

And we will continue to do so as we see fit.If it's overkill, our readers will turn away. We've posted 50 stories locally since Monday, four are on the event centre. Three just happened to be in the last two days.

4/11/2014 10:05:51 PM
Enquirer says:
Still dodging the question in regards to page views and the correlation to revenue I see? I think that speaks louder than what you would have to say on the topic anyways, Leith.

Why are you merely citing the letters hotlinked only and not the ones that came previous to that? Surely administrators such as yourself have the ability to look back at previous letters written? I think you will find that number to increase if you do that. Of course, this is a luxury we do not have, however, given that they are still accessible via Google and my browsing history, I have a much fairer tally than the one you provide.

Quite honestly, if TBNewswatch wishes to become 'Events Centre Central', then that is their prerogative. Should we stifle discussion on this? Of course not. Should you engage in other stories moreso? Of course.

Every time an article pops up, a new poll is created, it seems the wording is tweaked just the right way to inflame opinion and get the trolls out. Why is that?
4/11/2014 10:20:14 PM
Leith Dunick says:
We don't get paid by the click. We charge a flat monthly rate for our ads. We cover a wide variety of stories, including the event centre. It just happens to be top of mind right now. Yes, we do try to bring as many people here as often as we can. But so do most businesses. As for letters, we get far fewer than you think, simply because everyone can come here and comment on their stories anonymously. I publish what I get. Ray, Henry and Jon just happen to be enthusiastic and willing to put their names behind their opinions.
4/12/2014 8:28:27 AM
ring of fire dude says:
Leith ,you may want to ask the "powers that be" where they plan on sticking the bus terminals in both end of the city .
4/11/2014 9:49:15 PM
mystified says:
The only reason some people want this gem built in Innova Park is because they have never been outside of the South Core and West Fort and would need a map, GPS, or a guide to find their way to the North Core downtown.
Go to Toronto or Vancouver and take in an event. Be prepared to walk a couple of blocks, bigger blocks that this town. Sorry lazy people but the walk would do most of you good, maybe help cut the obesity rate in this town. You can't have everything at your door step.
See ya at the Event Centre. I may carpool with some friends, take a taxi or the bus or walk there as it's only a 30 minute stroll.

I"ll save the 'know it alls' some energy....I know some people have weight control problems related to medical issues..the rest are just plain lazy.
4/11/2014 8:33:20 PM
nvjgu says:
I will never understand how they think that's a good place to build a thing like that, Where's everybody going to park. Build it somewhere where there's room for a parking lot around the building, shake head.
4/11/2014 9:04:35 PM
minstrel says:
because if it built in innova park, you would need more patlink as nobody lives conveniently near. poor bus service, long expensive cab, etc. i'm not sure i think this thing should be built, but if it is, downtown (either one really) core makes the most sense. downtown north core is small enough to walk the whole area in 20 minutes, how far could parking really be for (insert deity here)'s sake!

also, a lot of people live walking distance, buses are convenient, and there is plenty of parking within walking distance.

i seriously question whether this centre is worth the expense. if the market truly demanded it, private sector would have done it already.

thunder bay is my home, but i only live there part time now, but i really hope this can be worked out without putting taxpayers on the hook annually if it is to be a perpetual annual expense, then it should be put to plebiscite.
4/12/2014 12:33:15 AM
Watchful says:
As I have said, this is a done deal. What saddens me is the complete disrespect and downright hatred this has generated. The assumption that if you cannot walk 5 blocks who cares, or you are just too fat or lazy. I am so proud of the young professionals of Thunder Bay. You have enlightened me on how generous and understanding you are for people with disabilities and show genuine concern on how they can participate. When you have your professionals meeting, maybe you can look at how to legalize "putting disabled, fat, and old people to sleep". Then you can proudly hold your professional heads high as you enjoy Your Event Centre for able people only.
4/11/2014 9:40:19 PM
tbaycat says:
Well said “Watchful”, well said. I have often being taken aback by comments like “I can’t wait till all the old people die so that Thunder Bay can finally move forward”. I have often wondered why those kinds of posts were ever even allowed on this site…
4/12/2014 6:04:44 AM
kensington says:
anybody park downtown lately! If you don't get mugged to and from your car it will be broken into sometime as I was in the middle of the day!Its a ghetto! PERIOD!
4/11/2014 9:41:34 PM
fastball says:
I've worked for 33 years downtown. Never have I been accosted, let alone harassed.
My car is just fine, too. TBay North is no different than any other place..it's got its good and bad.
But a ghetto?? Gimme a break.
4/12/2014 12:26:31 AM
Common cents says:
So you do have a vested interested in the downtown Northcore (aka Comedy District) ?

Imagine that......
4/12/2014 4:41:41 PM
fastball says:
I WORK downtown. My employer is located downtown.
I'm just a wage-earning schmo.
Other than me being in the geographical vicinity - I've no "vested interest".
4/14/2014 7:33:58 AM
sprintfan says:
Initially the parkade was to be 500 spots, then down to 200 to lower the cost. At the $80 million price tag, Innova Park had 2000 parking spots? Just wasn't the location Council wanted! Be Careful What You Wish For Thunder Bay, It Might Come True! We're Screwed!
4/11/2014 10:39:15 PM
pylon says:
Some of the opinions and thoughts here are really out there..

Does anyone actually believe that someone would choose to stay in any city because of a hockey team?

That's really naive..

People leave Thunder Bay because there is a lack of real opportunity here, not because we don't have an AHL team...

I'm well educated, and still had to leave Thunder Bay to get any decent experience. This building will be nothing more than a replacement for the other empty building we already have.
4/11/2014 10:46:46 PM
tbay87 says:
The 5700 seats isn't new news, but it's still an insane size for a city the size of TBay. How many events a year will need > 4000 seats? Maybe a couple Thunderwolves playoffs games; maybe early AHL games due to the novelty factor if a team moves here, and the odd band that's too big to need more than 4000 attendees but not big enough that they can sell out larger arenas.

The convention space idea seems insane, Thunder Bay is simply never going to be an attractive destination for conventions, and existing facilities seem to work well enough for the few that do exist.

The restaurant (news to me) should only be built if it is 100% privately funded ahead of time.

Trim these and the Gardens gets replaced plus a few extra seats, and the city doesn't blow millions up-front and ongoing extra maintenance costs to grab a few extra concerts and conventions: win-win.
4/11/2014 10:49:21 PM
me&i says:
this city is so backwards we need better roads never mind this place,i moved here 11 years ago and this city is such a dying city no work nothing to do with the kids here really ,our family is moving back down south as we have just had enough of this city it cost way to much to live here and you cant find a place to live because no one wants to rent to big family's but yet lets build another place with no parking so back wards ...should think about parking before u make a court house not after
4/12/2014 1:23:25 AM
nvjgu says:
5000 seat building with a 200 car parking lot. Lol
4/12/2014 3:06:23 AM
maltopian says:
My other comment notwithstanding, while we do need attractions in Thunder Bay, we shouldn't be saddling this up right beside the Prince Arthur. There's a lot of valuable stuff there that will get disrupted, at cost, and the north core is already doing well financially. This could be a great opportunity to start refurbishing the south ward a little more and bring it better business than hookers, heroin, and truck stop cafes.
4/12/2014 7:19:19 AM
chezhank says:
Has anyone looked at the Build Canada Fund and come to the conclusion that the proposed event centre is not even eligible under the $14 billion Build Canada Fund even if it came in under $106 million and did not have to go through the P3 screen......?

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/prog/index-eng.html

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/12/2014 7:40:27 AM
S Duncan says:
I see the Build Canada Fund expires in 2014 which is almost 1/3 gone.

Gee, another rush, rush, rush to beg for money ploy by Thunder Bay.

The management of this city is embarrassing.
4/12/2014 8:55:08 AM
chezhank says:
@S Duncan
They have extended it for another 10 years.
However the $14 billion Build Canada fund mentioned in the article,has restrictions on what it funds,and it looks like a proposed event centre is not an eligible project.
If an eligible project goes over the $100 million mark it has to go through a P3 screen where the private sector has to be involved so I do not see the need to have to scale it back from $106million as the private sector has to commit $15 million as in the Phase 2 Feasibility Report.

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/12/2014 12:15:03 PM
NearCanuck says:
I'm not well versed on the quagmire that is Government funding, but it does appear that the fund is currently for infrastructure only.

"Infrastructure Canada is now accepting completed business cases for projects within all seven eligible categories:

Highways and major roads
Public transit
Rail infrastructure
Disaster mitigation
Local and regional airports
Port infrastructure
Intelligent Transportation Systems"

Perhaps there was different eligibility criteria when the city first applied.
4/14/2014 4:08:16 PM
NearCanuck says:
Posted the wrong eligible project categories.

Eligible Categories under the PTIC–SCF:
Public transit
Drinking water
Wastewater
Solid waste management
Green energy
Innovation
Connectivity and broadband
Brownfield redevelopment
Disaster mitigation infrastructure
Local and regional airports
Short-line rail
Short-sea shipping
Highways and major roads
Northern infrastructure (applies to Yukon, Nunavut and Northwest Territories only)
4/14/2014 4:12:27 PM
chezhank says:
@NearCanuck
That's what I saw too.
Happy to see that someone took the time to look.

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/14/2014 8:48:41 PM
CHOPPER says:
I am so tired of the complainers in this town. Why is it when it benefits you people it's fine. I pay taxes for a lot of things I don't use in this city but that's how a city operates. Maybe it's time to move somewhere you can be happy, I think this town is great and the more we do the better we all will be for it.
4/12/2014 8:12:15 AM
The Beaver..... says:
mystified ..you are by far the smartest
and it is because of people like you that the people from Westford and on the South Side are shaking their heads.
By the time this Council is done with all that has not been presented to the people and the NET LOSS of Tax Revenue that is so evident will occur even you will wish it was build at Inova
4/12/2014 8:19:39 AM
mystified says:
'By the time this Council is done with all that has not been presented to the people and the NET LOSS of Tax Revenue that is so evident will occur even you will wish it was build at Inova'

Nope. North Core is the only place for this and it is where it is going regardless of all the belly aching that people do. I don't care, I pay my taxes and that's just a cost of living you have to absorb if you want to live in a house. Taxes never go down or away so if anyone feels that they won't be able to pay their taxes after the build nows the time to sell your house and move to the country or become an apartment dweller.
4/12/2014 6:49:47 PM
fluffy says:
Real nice. Crappy streets yet full steam full ahead with this hockey arena. My taxes couldn't possibly go up any more. But wait, yeah they will to pay for this. I'd rather stick a rusty fork in my eye than watch hockey but looks like I'll be helping out with the bill.
4/12/2014 10:14:56 AM
Westfortforever says:
The Hobbs Centre is going to be built, wrong or right location, Government funding or not, has it been promised to the hotel developers and city admin says build. I do not think young people will stay just because we have The Hobbs Centre or will tourists flock here. I would love a place to bring trade shows in and great concerts but can we afford to build it,keep it going and have all other options really been looked at or this one is the one we are being forced into. Too many closed door meetings in this city to ever know.
4/12/2014 3:56:45 PM
SomeGuy says:
Seriously? You honestly think that the Events Centre was promised to be built in exchange for building a Hotel at the Marina. I'm not sure how to respond to this as it's probably the silliest thing I've read on here in a while.
4/12/2014 8:07:31 PM
tbaycat says:
Seriously? You honestly think that the Events Centre was NOT promised to be built in exchange for building a Hotel at the Marina? I'm not sure how to respond to this as it's probably the most NAIVE comment that I've read on here in a while.
4/13/2014 6:46:46 PM
Ed itw says:
If we can get rid of about 10,000 people we would be eligible for the "Small Communities Fund" and we would need less parking.
4/12/2014 6:16:11 PM
S Duncan says:
City council is doing their best.

How many citys populations decrease like ours has?

Keep taxing and driving away businesses and they will get their wish.
4/12/2014 9:46:52 PM
rbosch says:
@ common cents - I read the link to the Moose Jaw article and I wonder just what sort of a response you expect from me. The Moose Jaw model is very similar model to what is being proposed by the consultants, so I would think that particular model is applied to all such downtown studies. That would be standard practice and it is accepted in cities. Peraps we are ahead of Moose Jaw in that it has been identified in Phase 2 and will be further scoped out in Phase 3. Yes, both plans are similar, in that they are looking at a radius or measured distance from the centre.
4/12/2014 10:14:27 PM
Reignmaker says:
@Sideways
I never said there wasn't congestion by the Gardens. I said that, without a large entertainment district, the area still had people walking blocks. In an already congested area, people will be walking kilometers. Or, businesses in the area will drastically fall off due to the inconvenience of getting to them. I don't understand why posters believe accessibility is not important to the area.
4/13/2014 5:43:30 AM
chezhank says:
@rbosch reply 4/11/2014 6:33:55 PM
Your honour I present you with this evidence:

http://ctbpub.thunderbay.ca/ctbapps/nonlinecorprpts.nsf/0/7c28f33ec00ccffc85257a92006e9497/attAttachment/0.84?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

Your honour you will note from the exhibit that $7.2 million was proposed for a 200 vehical parkade to get a total of $106.2 million.

What more information do the doubting thomas'es need?

I rest my case!

henry wojak
mayor in waiting

4/13/2014 6:50:29 AM
fastball says:
What's your point?
Everyone who actually paid attention and read the reports knew that the original 106M price tag included a parking facility costed out at 7M. Taking that away reduces the amount to the under-100M magic number that the gov't funding requires.
This is something new? A revelation? Proof of some dark conspiracy?
4/13/2014 2:54:26 PM
Pandora says:
If this project is such a winner the people who support it should do some Fund Raising, wouldn't that be a logical way to support this project?

In the States they hold lotteries for such projects, so those of you who support such projects can put your money where your wants are.

And those who will profit should invest in the project...private investors should be coming to the table with sizable investment and contributions.

4/13/2014 9:01:28 AM
chezhank says:
New Survey on AHL hockey:
After the survey the MTS centre comes up!
Must be market research.
They even allow for comments!Very nice and admireable.

ttps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/tbahl

henry wojak
mayor in waiting
4/13/2014 9:41:53 AM
Just Sayin' says:
Here's a crazy thought, why don't we just allow anyone with a ticket to ride public transit for FREE like they do in Hamilton to reduce parking. It gets people that don't normally take the bus to get on there and save money. In addition, why don't we turn zone 6 on Algoma Street into a parking lot and just run a shuttle service with City buses? PROBLEM SOLVED!
4/13/2014 10:22:17 AM
S Duncan says:
Its a crazy thought alright. Your type of problem solving is somewhat unique. Its the type of thinking that often comes from city halls everywhere. If you dont already have a job there, you should apply for one.

The thing is it's not "problem solved" at all! Its problem created. Its the same as sweeping dirt under the rug.

What you are saying is that we already know the parking is a failure, so what we will do is not only provide welfare hockey, the taxpayers will provide welfare transportation to the game?

Youre not happy enough with welfare entertainment and now you want taxpayers to drive you there for free.

So the taxpayers will be forced to hand over money to subsidize city transit to a greater degree than it already is?

All you are doing is creating a bigger problem by not properly dealing with the one we already have. The fact is the welfare district is forcing us to design the facilty to it.

If it was innova, these problems wouldnt exist.

its still welfare.
4/13/2014 2:39:09 PM
hoboBOB says:
"Smith on Friday said the multi-use facility, if approved by city council and built, he noted – will still have 5,700 seats, 50,000 square feet of convention space and a restaurant."

My question that I have asked a lot of people I know is this, "What events are we going to use this 50,000 square feet of convention center for?"

Are we going to bring new events in? If so, do we already know what some of these event could be? Or are we just moving old events into a new venue? I know we already have FireCon, wedding shows, the home and garden show, and the college puts on the trade/job fair every year at the hanger they own.

Do we really need this "convention center", or are we just using it to pad some income numbers for the new arena? We have lot of big building in this town already that hose amazing conventions and trade shows. I just want to know, are we just going to end up relocating our current conventions to a new venue, or are we really bringing in new shows?
4/13/2014 10:38:54 AM
trips says:
@rbosh...you seem to have all the answers...here is the scenario...event centre is built and its a tremendous success ...every event is sold out...half the people drive and park nearby...what is your answer to the restaurant owners and shop owners who have to go out of business because their clientel have no where to park during an event assuming that these events run between 6pm and 10pm their prime time of business?
4/13/2014 10:41:54 AM
fastball says:
Seriously? This is the newest thread that people are desperately trying to hang onto? That restaurants and bars will go out of business because of limited parking in the area during event nights? Man oh man - can you get ANY more desperate in your arguments?
Try an informal survey - you go ask ANY restauranteur in the area if they had the choice between a deserted area with plenty of open parking - or a bustling area full of pedestrians walking around during the evening, (even if they're spending 5 minutes looking for parking) - I can probably give you their unanimous answer right now.
I'd also venture to suggest that probably 80 percent of the businesses down there are closed after 6pm, anyways - except for the handful of restaurants and pubs currently scattered through the area. Take away the daily 9-to-5 work traffic, and that area will be just fine for after-hours parking.
Some people don't have a problem walking a block or two. Other cities manage. No mass bankruptcies.
4/13/2014 3:05:54 PM
James Gang says:
Seriously? Your comment says that putting the hockey rink in the downtown south core wont revitalize the area at all.

if 80% of the businesses down there are closed after 6PM like you say, then how is this going to revitalize the area?

so the whole point of this is to support a few dive bars and poor restaurants which will suffer more because people will have less disposable income to spend on a night out. instead of people sitting in them longer, drinking and eating more, they will be rushed off to the arena instead?

will the arena sell booze and food? wont that directly compete with the PA restaurants and bars? we cant serve more than 2 drinks these days without someone getting charged.

so the place is a dead zone, now with less parking.

that's what your comment says.
4/14/2014 8:52:36 AM
fastball says:
Currently in the downtown, there are a significant number of businesses like banks, office buildings and other places that don't stay open after 5-6pm. I was referring to those places in the comment you cite. There are also a fair number of empty storefronts scattered through the area that might re-open in some fashion should the place start to get a pulse.
If you bring the people back - business usually follows. Even it's just little coffee or ice-cream shops to start with. A couple of entrepreneurs with low overhead, like food trucks or chip wagons...it'll start with those. Count on it.
4/14/2014 11:04:16 AM
orig junkyarddog says:
I for one and many others will petition for permit parking in our neighborhood. Why should all of our street front parking be taken up by events? Like it is for the Blues Fest Canada Day and you see the fun it is moving traffic on just those occasions. But hey this Mayor and council have more magic tricks up their sleeves, so in their opinion it should not be an issue. Doug Powell
4/13/2014 3:17:54 PM
trips says:
with the advent of google maps this consultants report that says the north core has over 2000 parking spaces should be published... I call bull crap...prove to me I am wrong fastball
4/13/2014 8:13:29 PM
fastball says:
As much as I'd love the opportunity to do just that - I've only got an hour for lunch, and I don't want to spend it counting parking spots.
I'm optimist that there will be enough on-street parking for the drive-up crowd - and hope that with a combination of the existing parkade, numerous smaller lots, FUTURE small lots - along with existing public transit will accommodate people's needs. What about shuttle service from Intercity Mall or from the Auditorium? Park your car there in the giant lot that might be just sitting there empty - and take a quick 5 minute shuttle to the downtown and back again. No fuss, no muss.
The biggest obstacle here is the unwillingness to consider doing things differently. Unless you're a mule or a 5-year old - we ought to be able to make it work.
4/14/2014 9:51:30 AM
tudor says:
The same people who brought us the Wind Farm problems and the incredible amount of wasted money at Marina Park are telling us this is a great idea.

I do not see this facility having two conventions a month and it will need to to be economically viable. I do not profess to be an expert in tourism or business or construction. I do claim to have a bit of common sense and common sense tells me that spending 100 million to operate at a 1.5 million yearly loss is a scary and likely foolish idea. And that loss estimate is based on all of the positive assumptions being correct. So what if they are out by 10% on the projected revenues which is not an unreasonable concern. What does our operating loss increase to then? This is not a hospital. This is entertainment yet we as a city are going to spend millions more than what we committed to a hospital. Please do not tell me that the majority of citizens in this city are on board. I do not believe it given those I speak to.
4/13/2014 8:53:28 PM
Eastender says:
Any fool can see just by the comments over the past six months or so on this site that the majority of people in this city are against this welfare dome. But the people living in bizzaro world would have you believe that it isnt so, by using the weakest of rationalization to justify their insatiable craving for their childish wants. They ignore the cost versus benefit factor. They ignore the parking factor. They ignore the reality that this city does not have the population nor the accesibility to a substantial rural population to sustain adequate attendance at events. They ignore the fact that there hasn't been a single new source of jobs created in this city in years . They ignore the fact that thousands of able bodied, educated young people have left this city to find work other places and an equal number of people who require social assistance to survive have replaced the gap in that exodus, .leaving a negative impact on the tax base.
4/14/2014 1:43:15 AM
bttnk says:
@Tudor - Should we do away with every municipal investment that doesn't turn a DIRECT profit?
4/14/2014 9:57:55 AM
Blackheart says:
I to believe that the city should have to show where all these parking spots are. The park aid is always full with spots leased by people that work at the call centre. They are at work when events would be going on. And really what good is parking for 200 when a sold out event seats 5600?? It's not walking "a few blocks" show me these parking spots!
4/14/2014 7:10:37 AM
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