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2009-11-19 at 17:24

Mill getting $25M

By Scott Paradis, tbnewswatch.com
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The province will give Terrace Bay Pulp a vote of confidence in the form of $25-million, a mill official told media Thursday.

The province hasn’t made an announcement yet, but Yves Fricot, a lawyer for the Buchanan group of companies, said the province indicated it is prepared to support the mill through a $25-million term loan. The loan is expected to help the mill complete financing, make arrangements with creditors and eventually re-open operations.

"This vote of confidence from the government allows us to go with a good degree of confidence to the credit markets to say ‘look we need your help on the second half of this piece,’" Fricot said. "This is a good mill and we have some people who believe in it."

Fricot said the company hopes to open the mill sometime early in 2010. But despite the announcement of a possible loan, Fricot added that it was too early to give the facility a specific restart date.

"I really don’t want to pin down a date because I think that would be unfair to the (workers)," he said. "But we are looking at early in the new year."

The mill was idled in February and was forced to seek CCAA protection on March 11. The company has had its creditor protection extended a couple of times by the courts.

Recently, union officials representing workers at the Terrace Bay mill said it was time to reopen the mill and get workers back on the job. Both company and Steelworker Union officials argued that mill was viable because the price of pulp had risen by nearly $300 per tonne since being idled.

Fricot said the market conditions surrounding the pulp industry are different today than they were a year ago. A year ago, people who typically lent money into the forestry industry suddenly were not making the investments because of the global market conditions.

Now pulp prices have begun to pick up and some economic forecasts show pulp prices remaining strong in the short-term. In the long-term, Fricott said the company has the ability to now go back to the credit market with a pitch that pulp is a good investment.

The state of the mill in Terrace Bay will also help the company in the future, he added.

"It’s a world-class mill with a world-class labour force," he said. "It is able to produce pulp in world-class volumes. So it has all of the tools necessary to be successful in the long-run and if it was operating today it would be making money."

Dougall Media contacted Minister of Forestry Michael Gravelle, however, a spokesperson for the minister said Gravelle would not be able to comment on the deal until Friday morning.

The exact terms of the loan are not publicly known at this time. Click here to submit a letter to the editor.

Click here to report a typo or error

Tbnewswatch.com(46)

Comments

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panzerIV says:
congratulation to the members fighting to get the money for the mill. I hope that there workers work till retirement and it works for another 100 years, but if we have learned one thing from this is that a single based economy will cause much pain and hardship. This again is great news but the municipalities have to start working on diversifying.
11/19/2009 5:44:34 PM
stormy says:
I predict U.S. trade sanctions will be here before Santa!

Sure it's just a term loan, but the American's have a track record of viewing government sourced loans as a subsidy, since the money did not seem to be forthcoming from private sources.

However, this is great news for the workers of Terrace Bay Pulp and the Northern ontario economy if it does indeed mean a restart of mill operations.

11/19/2009 5:56:57 PM
Laidoffmillguy says:
This is great news! Good luck with the start up.
11/19/2009 6:02:13 PM
bigdog says:
I get it. Socialism for the Rich and Capitalism for the Poor.

This looks like a Liberal helping a Liberal with tax payer money. I wonder if the workers who are owned money by this company can GARNISHEE a Government handout ? I guess not... too bad.
11/19/2009 6:25:50 PM
The Cursed says:
This great news for the people of Terrace Bay . Now let's see how many other mills will be looking for the same hand out/loan, I'm thinking a lot.
11/19/2009 6:52:31 PM
elvis2010 says:
How does a company that one branch of just declaired baankruptcy with the gov being one of the creditors, how does it get a loan of $25 million from that very same government? I hope all the sawmill workers that now have been royally screwed by both uncle bucky and their own goverment now stand up together and demand their severance be paid out in full. Something that is owed, was earned by these people. Doesn't it seem like both bucky and the gov are laughing at these workers together while making these sweetheart deals?! Sure it is good for Terrace bay but why can't the workers that are owed this money be helped? Why does this and all other govs just help out the rich and keep screwing the workers?
11/19/2009 7:11:32 PM
patti says:
This is terrific news ~ hopefully it'll have a positive spin off (snowball) effect for the industry, which i'm sure, is what the government is hoping for!!

11/19/2009 7:34:16 PM
smalltown77 says:
Fanatastic news for many families and business on the north shore. This might be a step in the right direction for everyone who is owed money by the Buchanen regim.
11/19/2009 7:56:33 PM
exterracebayer says:
Well, I am sure this comes as no surprise to anyone that has been following this. Its not that i wish ill will on Terrace Bay. Its just that it is not fair to the people of the other Buchanan communities who haven't got a dime from "Bucky". Seriously, this loan is just a temporary solution and will keep the people that are waiting for the mill to open waiting again. The "world class" employees have long since left the community and are working elsewhere. The workers that are left are desperately trying to hold on to the life that once was but unfortunately is long gone. It would be better for all of those young families if they just ended the suspense now so they could move on with their lives instead of hoping for something that isn't going to last.
11/19/2009 8:44:31 PM
dales says:
What.............. are you kidding me. For the thousands of people that Ken Buchanan owes money to, this is a huge kick in the face. Lets find out who authorized this loan and why is it in the paper so quickl, after Yves Fricot so smugly said screw all the workers who are owed monies. I betcha Mr. Fricot or Auld have never been in the unempoyment line./ What about the shame you feel when you are at the EI office and the hundreds of questions that ask if you are working or not or what happend and what about your severance that should help you till you find another job - not in the Buchanan world. Lets seriously find out who approved the loan. How about instead of loaning him more money so he can screw over another thousand people,do the socially responsible thing and take his forest licences away. Buchanan has not paid crown stumpage for years, does every company get this loan. Honestly, who would harvest wood for him anyway, he screwed everybody that is in ontario. one of the conditions of the loan should be that all profits go to pay his creditors and those families affected. remember, history has a tendendcy to repeat itself, so will bucky.
11/19/2009 9:21:20 PM
laidoffmillguy says:
It's funny that this was accomplished by a Liberal nomination over an NDP one who is currently in power.. Bruce Hyer has done nothing for jobs AT ALL in forestry. Yves has pulled funds to get jobs going again and for that I will vote for him.
11/19/2009 9:23:55 PM
finnboy says:
The Ontario Government is owed 25 million in stumpage fees from the Buchanen Companies.

Tell me how can a goverrment give this company another loan when they owe so much and some of his empire have gone into bankruptcy.

Makes no sense to me mind you we are talking common sense?!
11/19/2009 10:09:31 PM
geezplease says:
I, for one, would like to thank everyone who worked tirelessly on getting the mill this far towards starting back up. All bucky's men, Mike Gravelle, even Dalton. Thank Gawd for our sakes, and hopefully everything will turn upwards from this point. I know that there are alot of angry people that have been affected for many years by the actions of Buchanan, and they are right in feeling that way, but today he gave my family back some normalacy. As for the naysayers and the disgruntled... the best way to get the money owed is for at least one of his companies to be running.
11/19/2009 10:59:02 PM
Toodleoo Caribou says:
I'd like to get excited about this. Sadly though, I strongly suspect we'll all be back at Square One within 12-18 months with another $25m debt for good ol' Joe Taxpayer to pay off. T/Bay Fine Papers anyone?
11/19/2009 11:22:11 PM
bigdog says:
This situation reminds me of "Battered Spouse Syndrome" (The workers being the wife). "Listen dear, if you just let me come home one more time, trust me, I will never hit you again, and I will give you a paycheque."
11/20/2009 9:10:54 AM
bigdog says:
My GAWD ! The Liberal Shills pretending to be Mill Workers are thicker than fleas on this post. "Oh thank-you Yves-You Da Man"
Nice try.
11/20/2009 9:19:47 AM
TBP Employee says:
Thank you to Minister Gravelle, our government, Buchanan members, and employees for not giving up on a great mill. I know the mill is not yet running but this announcement is a big positive step. We have a way to go, keep up the good work!
11/20/2009 9:45:14 AM
observer says:
Now this is no surprise, a Liberal giving money to a Liberal.
Hey, maybe if I go to the bank and say that my husband is unemployed and I can't guarantee pay back, they will give us a loan.

I hope this works for the workers in Terrace Bay, but being the wife of mill worker no longer employed tells me this is just a pipe dream which will become a nightmare for the workers and their families.
11/20/2009 10:13:29 AM
The Cursed says:
The government is going to have to give this deal to other mills just to prove this was not a GOOD OLD BOYS deal with the Buchanan group. If they don't there will be hell raised across Northern Ontario and a lot of questions asked about this deal. This is just the old if you do for one you'd dam well better be ready to do for all who come asking and they will come asking. Don't get me wrong I am truly happy for the people of Terrace Bay, I'm glad people will be returning to work and getting things back on track.
11/20/2009 12:03:27 PM
TootsieFarkleFanny says:
I really, really hope that along with this money comes some government "meddling" - someone impartial who watches EXACTLY what the money is being spent on as it goes out. I don't doubt that the mill will open - for for how long?
I don't want to see the rich get richer off of this, and the workers get screwed. (But look at Buchanan's track record!)
11/20/2009 12:03:42 PM
TickedTaxpayer says:
I agree with Geez,please - one company up and running is a start! Lumping Terrace Bay Pulp in with Buchanan Forest Products is like comparing apples and oranges. It doesn't matter if they come from the same fruit stand. I can also totally understand the bitterness out there, but the battered spouse reference made by Big Dog was totally uncalled for. I know a point was attempted to be made here, but certain lines don't need to be crossed. I for one, am very happy to hear some good news for a change!
11/20/2009 12:47:16 PM
millguy says:
As an ex-sawmill worker from one of Kens sawmills that have been shut down but am currently laid-off as well now from terrace bay, i find the prospect of getting back to work at the pulp mill very exciting. As far as i'm concerned ken can keep the severance that is owed to me and find it very easy to forgive in exchange for a full time job, no matter how long it lasts. Because now i've been required to leave my young family and move 33 hrs away to find another job leaving them behind so that we can make the mortgage each month. People are quick to male judgement against this company as a whole but i challenge you to show me anyone who would turn down employment at a time like this. Pride doesnt pay the bills.
11/20/2009 1:43:26 PM
elvis2010 says:
observer, maybe if you file for bankruptcy, buy yourself a prov. lib. membership and then file for e.i., just maybe then you will get full e.i. and maybe even a multimillion dollar loan too! Isn't it sickening what bucky gets away with?! An you people that work or will work at the T. Bay mill, if it ever does start up, don't get too excited, bucky will wait til you think things are great again then screw you over for more millions from the gov. You are all just game pieces in this mans sick game of life!
11/20/2009 2:02:10 PM
elvis2010 says:
Also, TickedTaxpayer, don't get too excited until he actually starts it up. And this isn't comparing apples to oranges. It is Uncle Buck, whether it is a pulp, saw or whatever kind of mill. It is the same guy. Robbing Peter to pay Paul all the while sticking it to his own employees. He has no respect for his employees, why should they have any for him? I wonder how many will actually put in a 100% effort IF they do get called back.
11/20/2009 2:05:45 PM
tbaycat says:
Laidoffmillguy ....Yes it is funny that this was accomplished by a Liberal nominee. Funny as in something smells funny. Tell me, are you really so blind? This is vote buying in its lowest and most despicable form.

Fricot, as Buchanan’s lawyer, is one of the people MOST responsible for all the heartache and misery that has been dealt out to all the poor hard working men and women in this company. It’s been his JOB to look out for the company’s best interests even if it’s been at the expense of all its workers. Bet he got a lot of BIG performance bonuses every time he figured out a way to screw the workers during contract negotiations. And you’re chomping at the bit to vote for this guy?

As to the funding announcement itself, it was Michael Gravelle’s place to make NOT his. This just shows the disrespect that the Liberal party has for its own members. If that party had any integrity at all they would have put a muzzle on Fricot. By using this opportunity to pump him up they made Gravelle, the minister, look inconsequential. But hey, didn’t they give Gravelle that position in the first place just to shut the rest of us up?
11/20/2009 2:28:58 PM
laidoffmillguy says:
Wow I can't beleive all the cry babies here whining about Buchanan. The whole point here is that the mill will start up and good paying jobs will be saved. As for your comment TBAYCAT Tell me one thing Bruce Hyer has done for the forestry industry in the area..... Sure Yves is the lawyer for Buchanan and helped his own company, I really don't care... the point is he actually acomplished something more than our current federal MPP who clearly has fought against these companies for his own personal agenda (wildwater). This is the nature of the beast when it comes to politics. Also as a former sawmill worker I am familiar with many of the contracts from several of the mills and they are all fair to me when it came to benifits and wages so TBAYCAT once again explain to me how Yves caused heartache and misery??? and screwed the workers?? The way I see it he just played a pivital role in saving about 400 GOOD paying jobs.
11/20/2009 4:20:55 PM
broke & broker says:
Great.....just wonderful. Will somebody in government just wake up and let this legislation-dodging, vote-buying mismanaged mess of a company just die and quit throwing good taxpayer money after bad. Get this company's pocket politicians off the slate and allow REAL professionally-managed forest companies operate - you know, the ones that DON't have one foot firmly planted in 1927 attitudes to labour, the law and the environment?
11/20/2009 5:50:23 PM
laidoffmillguy says:
broke and broker name one private forestry(lumber & pulp) company that is thriving in this market...So what do you think is the best plan for TBP!? Give up! Find a buyer?(not in this market) so then what, sell of some equipment for pennies on the dollar to the Chinese then sell the rest for scrap metal? only to cover the cost of tearing it out. I do recall that the former company(AMERICAN OWNED)Neenah paper were going to walk away from the plant, but Buchanan(local company) came in and DID make it viable again... only to fall cause of the worst economic disaster since the great depression. I am happy to see that this plant is going to be online soon, even though I was laid off working in Buchanan's sawmill. I am not bitter towards him, because after a little bit of reading even a stupid person can understand that the downfall of the Buchanan group was out of his control. As a proud Northern Ontario Canadian seeing good jobs revive and come back....I will always support and not put down.
11/20/2009 9:16:48 PM
ranout says:
why are his other mill not for sale too help pay the bill good luck will are money
11/20/2009 10:03:25 PM
tbay1 says:
I fully agree with Dales comment....
Buchanan owes the province of Ontario in excess of $30million dollars in stumpage dues for the use of Crown resources...but the province of Ontario still issues the authority to secure a loan for $25million. The company should be required to clear the money owed to the creditors and pay the required severance pay to his employees.

What is this going to due for the remainder of the communities and people that are impacted?
Do you have a response to this question Minister Gravelle? You are supposed to be representing the region not the Buchanan group...
11/20/2009 10:36:10 PM
Bobguy says:
Laidoffmillguy, I wish I could meet you because I think we have a lot in common and it is nice to see some reasonability on this site.

Let me spell it out for the people who are whining about theire severance. If Ken can keep his company afloat with TBPI, he will be able to affort to restart a forest harvesting operation that will directly and indirectly employ hundreds of people. Then, when lumber prices become economical, sawmills will start up. At that time, people that want full time jobs will be able to work and money will be in the kitty to pay severances.

Hopefully that happens. If not, guess what? no severances anyhow. This is the only way that any severances will be paid out. If Ken was for sure against severances, he would have bankrupted the companies and restarted them under a different name many, many, many months ago.

If you think you see unscrupulus business, you haven't seen anything. Go to Atikokan, ask Fiberteck's employees about their payouts.
11/20/2009 10:47:11 PM
dales says:
Even though I may be desperate, i am a logger and until he pays me the money owed to me, no way i am coming back. Kenny time to get ride of your wooodlands manager, everyone else has left. Who is actually left in the company, sunmmer students managing forests....... I think the government is on to you. Sign me up Kenny - i will bust my back for the next 2o years for you and then get screwed oin the end - not happening. I will cut wood for you, but advance me money, pay back what you owe and then i will work for you - until another coompany comnes along. why are all your staff leaving.. whoès left, its over move one. Most company still operating struggle with harvesting and the roads program, yet buchanan without harvesting a single tree can still access this program - riduculous - wait till audits dig into bfpl records on this...............good night
11/20/2009 11:28:50 PM
captain says:
oh my God. what is with some of you. Good news, yet you still find a way to complain. That is t.bay way. Laid off mill guy. My hats off to you. you have come around. from blasting the goverment for months for everything wrong in forestry, you now say it was the worst economic crisis in decades. Nice to see you get it. for those who say Liberals giving to Liberals. You people are scary. Do they let you vote? just what would have happened if the province didn't give the money. you would have screamed to. So, the gov't doesn't give enough. Their at fault. They give money, their at fault too. anyone else confused. no wonder this area is so hard to get going, it is full of uneducated, greedy, out of touch people who just don't get it. so, here is an idea for you folks who just don't get it. Give the money back. put any chance for the doors to be opened, down the drain. say to hell with any chance to have forestry jobs. tell those families sorry, we are not interested. yeap that's the answer. wow. it just proves no matter how dumb you think people are, they just prove they are even dumber. I'll congratulate Fricot. I'll congratulate Gravelle and Mauro, hell I'll congratulate Dalton and his cabinet. 25 million to help. If it works will all you critics say good job. naw, you will probably complain because they didn't hire you. you folks are incredible.
11/21/2009 6:37:34 PM
patti says:
I totally agree with Captain,Millguy etc. this thread is polluted with bitter people somehow affiliated with Buchanan who are owed $$$ and would rather see EVERYONE go down with the ship versus giving a helping hand ~ with the idea of positive spin off effects down the line, BUT I suppose that's human nature though ~ ME,ME,ME. This is great news folks so let's leave politics out of the story.

To the fellow who won't go back to work because of money owed to him ~ listen the 150+ applicants for your job ........ will appreciate it!!
11/22/2009 8:33:33 AM
psmith says:
Maybe the reason so many are skeptical on this thread is that they have been made a lot of promises over the years they haven't seen come to fruition, and they have been left holding the bag. $25 million for Bucky and not a penny for the workers and contractors owed millions$$$. They may never even see their money if Bucky does his usual fold-and-restart play: fold up his old company owing millions, auction off the assets and get his new company to buy them up for pennies on the dollar, and restart under the new company debt-free. Maybe there's a reason he's got such a complicated network of companies instead of just one or two.

Yes this is good news. But people are right to be suspicious of the political motives too. Liberal McGuinty gives Liberal candidate Fricot our own taxpayer money to dangle re-opening the mill over us for months, then Surprise! the mill opens on the first day of the election with Fricot cutting the ribbon. Do they think we're dumb? The mill could open within a month with all the product they have in the yard and the price of pulp as high as it is. It's playing politics with people's livelihoods.
11/22/2009 6:22:52 PM
MarathonLogger says:
I only have a couple of comments to add. Those of you mentioning "Good paying jobs" perhaps should leave out the "Good" qualifier. I recently spoke with some loggers in the shuniah area, and am surprised to hear there are birch logs soon to be sawed in the northern woods mill in tbay. The kicker was, wages to be paid on that saw line were to be barely above minimum wage. It's a job, but don't figure it's going to be good paying. Likewise, i wouldn't expect your full wage at TBP. Time will tell. BTW, i'm no fan of bucky either. While he doesn't owe me anything now, i'm not about to go road building or logging until i see a substantial deposit before i'll rally my equipment and workers. Maybe you mill workers feel you were fairly treated and paid, but it's a different story for the bush contractors. Most of us regularly had to produce 30-50% more than we were scaled and paid for. When any of us disputed it, and even tried repeatedly to get the mnr to back us up for fair scaling, we were soon after informed our fibre was no longer needed. Why didn't we just quit? Who else are you going to put $4-5 million of machinery to work for, when the little potato farmer had the monopoly on fibre procurement? Point being, having one man with a hammer lock on just about the majority of the northwest's timber rights is no good for anyone but him.
11/22/2009 9:45:12 PM
kdpsg says:
Sadly, most of the people in his discussion board are very naive... $25 mil will not put a dent into the $80+ million underfunded situation TBPI was in - in March 2009... I wonder what kind of debt has grown since that time? Very sadly, I am willing to bet a substantial amount of money that TBPI never starts a paoer machine again... Most people just need news to give them hope - look at the facts people.
11/23/2009 12:51:32 PM
laidoffmillguy says:
KDPSG You are 100% right, TBP will never run a paoer(I assume you mean paper)machine, because they only make northern bleached softwood kraft AKA pulp.
11/23/2009 4:11:32 PM
backat'er says:
@psmith "Do they think we're dumb? The mill could open within a month with all the product they have in the yard and the price of pulp as high as it is. It's playing politics with people's livelihoods."

This would be near impossible to open up within a month with the amount of work needed to be done within the mill to be start-up ready. Not to mention paying all the bills, acquiring new contracts for supplies, and getting clearance from the courts to be dismissed from the CCAA. It took several weeks last time the mill was down, with the change of hands from Neenah to Buchanan, just to get the electrical systems running.

@kdpsg it's pretty obvious that the extent of your literature material ends with the newspaper. A tiny bit of research over on the Ernst and Young site would show you how much money has been paid out already against that $80 million debt. Also the courts wouldn't have allowed the company to go further into debt while under CCAA protections. The only debt that could have accumulated would have been that owed to the handful of security staff left and very limited electrical fees. I certainly hope for your sake that you aren't betting that life savings of yours on the start-up (or lack there of in yours eyes) of this mill. TBPI will be running soon after the new year.
11/23/2009 5:25:39 PM
kdpsg says:
Laidoffmillguy – You are very correct… it is MY mistake. In my haste, I unintentionally used the term “paper and “pulp” interchangeably – as stated, my mistake…

backat'er – Any idiot can Log on to EY site and view the Motions past, etc > (). Does this make you an expert, and me unsophisticated because I get my info partly from the ”news”? Let’s start with “some small electricity charges”; how about a fixed fee of $70K per month for with a likely true up when (if) the mill becomes solvent. Next, don’t forget the industrial property tax base on, unfortunately, one of Terrace Bay’s main sources of revenue. Then, there will be the remaining admin, directors and officers salary charges (those that remain). Oh, don’t forget – winters coming and the costs to heat & maintain the place will likely be very material. Or, perhaps the security staff can stoke the fire to keep the heating costs down. And, creditor interest, how about that… I will not go on, but, after all of those charges are covered there will likely be the fees for the monitor (E&Y)- oh sorry those are first - and then the very costly start-up and commissioning. As for cash receipts, all finished product inventories have been sold (and likely not at $800 per tonne), and the rotting raw materials are now owned by the forestry operators. I’ll stop now because you can probably read the projected cash flows, etc on the above noted website… I surely hope that you are not waiting for Thunder Bay Fine Papers to start-up…

Now, I would like NOTHING more that to see Buchanan et al startup and become profitable and provide hundreds of jobs for this area, but my peeve is, as a taxpayer, we have little say in how our money is (or potentially is) spent; “$25 million in loan guarantees” Personally, I would like to have seen that money go to Abitibi Bowater in Thunder Bay in an effort to move the currently “operating” mill into the hands of a solvent company (say International Papers…). Shouldn’t the focus be on what’s already running…?
11/23/2009 8:02:05 PM
pulpgal says:
Ok so they found money to keep the wolfs from the door - where are they going to get the millions to get supplies to start it up?
How many times are you people going to bend over before you realize, it ain't LOVE!
11/23/2009 10:47:13 PM
geezplease says:
kdpsg - I read your entire post and shook my head through most of it. But alas, when I got to "Personally, I would like to have seen that money go to Abitibi Bowater in Thunder Bay in an effort to move the currently “operating” mill into the hands of a solvent company (say International Papers…)." I laughed like I haven't in such a long time.
To use an analogy, like many on this site like to so often do (eg. battered spouse - really?) : I am so sorry that the other little boy took your toy.
Really, figured that money should've went to Abi-Bo? Here's some reading:
, but i'm sure you've read it, you'd just rather beat down the little CANADIAN mill eh?
There isn't many kids left in the pulp and paoer sandbox that play nice and fair is there?
11/24/2009 8:54:13 AM
patti says:
"Personally, I would like to have seen that money go to Abitibi Bowater in Thunder Bay in an effort to move the currently “operating” mill into the hands of a solvent company (say International Papers…). Shouldn’t the focus be on what’s already running…?"
***********************************************
Congratulations.... I think i've just read the most idiotic comment ... quite possibly ever!!
11/24/2009 9:11:47 AM
backat'er says:
@kdpsg I'm truly sorry. I was not aware that idiots seem to get the picture better then you. All it takes is to look at some of the CCAA cash flows for the company to see that all these bills have been paid up to date during the proceedings. As I've said, the courts would not allow the company to go further into debt while under the protection. If that were the case then perhaps TBPI should have just continued with production in the first place and make it a really wild trip. The admin etc people are being paid for those that remained working as security during the down time. The monitor fees were placed in reserve at the start of these proceedings, they may need to be topped up a touch in the end but E&Y and the courts made sure they were secured before hand. As well as the cash receipts, the product has been sold yes. But not all the monies have been paid back to TBPI. So there is still some cash flow coming into the mill as well. the $25 mill takes care of the bulk of the remaining $80 million debt, and funding for startup will not be as big of an issue now that the government has bascially given the mill the go ahead in agreeing that it is a very viable mill to operate. You seem quick about linking these reports but at the same time none of your info jives with anything on them. And you are right. We should not help out a viable operation like TBPI who has a proven track record of being able to compete with larger operations as well as making them look bad. I'd rather see my tax dollars pay off Abi-bo's $250 million loan and refill the billions in shortfall of their retirement funds.

That being said, getting TBPI started is a step in the right direction. It's not the ultimate solution and never have I said that. I wish the government could bail out every mill in NWO for the sake of everyone up here. Abi-bo has received their share of funding from the government in the past. Unfortunately it has done little to help out. Just as any other business deal, the government is trying to help those that have a chance of surviving. I ask you, would you invest in a boat that is in need of a patch job, or the Titanic after hitting the ice? Given enough time and money both can be repaired but business wise, you have to draw the line somewhere decide if the repairs outweight building over from scratch.
11/24/2009 2:44:31 PM
backat'er says:
@kdpsg I'm truly sorry. I was not aware that idiots seem to get the picture better then you. All it takes is to look at some of the CCAA cash flows for the company to see that all these bills have been paid up to date during the proceedings. As I've said, the courts would not allow the company to go further into debt while under the protection. If that were the case then perhaps TBPI should have just continued with production in the first place and make it a really wild trip. The admin etc people are being paid for those that remained working as security during the down time. The monitor fees were placed in reserve at the start of these proceedings, they may need to be topped up a touch in the end but E&Y and the courts made sure they were secured before hand. As well as the cash receipts, the product has been sold yes. But not all the monies have been paid back to TBPI. So there is still some cash flow coming into the mill as well. the $25 mill takes care of the bulk of the remaining $80 million debt, and funding for startup will not be as big of an issue now that the government has bascially given the mill the go ahead in agreeing that it is a very viable mill to operate. You seem quick about linking these reports but at the same time none of your info jives with anything on them. And you are right. We should not help out a viable operation like TBPI who has a proven track record of being able to compete with larger operations as well as making them look bad. I'd rather see my tax dollars pay off Abi-bo's $250 million loan and refill the billions in shortfall of their retirement funds.

That being said, getting TBPI started is a step in the right direction. It's not the ultimate solution and never have I said that. I wish the government could bail out every mill in NWO for the sake of everyone up here. Abi-bo has received their share of funding from the government in the past. Unfortunately it has done little to help out. Just as any other business deal, the government is trying to help those that have a chance of surviving. I ask you, would you invest in a boat that is in need of a patch job, or the Titanic after hitting the ice? Given enough time and money both can be repaired but business wise, you have to draw the line somewhere decide if the repairs outweight building over from scratch.
11/24/2009 5:50:24 PM
quietman says:
Who's TBPI ever going to get to cut the wood? Let's look at the track record. New Brunswick contractors hired to come here and cut...bankrupt. Alberta contractors shown the promise land and then...bankrupt. How many contractors over the years have gone bankrupt. So many that BFPL thought they would show us how it was done with Hemlo timber! When they couldn't do it they sold off the equipment to the workers they had hired with big promises of "nice wood" and what happenned? Bankrupt! They kept people under their thumb. Let me bring you through the thought process. If you pay someone well to work for you they will have money to take holidays and maybe go home for a weekend here and there. And at some point they may get large enough that you need them to work or the mills run out of wood. But! If you pay them little and cut the scale to a point where they are starving then they will have to work their asses off on weekends and without holidays, just trying to scrape by but will produce more. Hence the term "More for Less"! they kept peoples spirits low and fed them the lines to just be happy they are working. If a well paid employee left the mindset was that they could hire a new employee for $32,000 a year and they could save money! Promise that employee that in 6 months they would get a raise but in 6 months? Boy times are tough. Just ride it out and when things pick up we'll take care of you. Mill workers were taken better care of (other than no severance and termination pay and the threat to go bankrupt if they persue it like they did with the Wawang employees) than the bush contractors and I think this is the differences of opinion you see here in these posts. Good luck TBPI. I really hope some people go back to work and when they do lets see if BFPL can follow through with all the promises of taking care of the people that are owed money. If we get it I'll eat my hat!
11/25/2009 6:08:00 PM
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