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Recommended 7 times. 7 Recommend
2010-07-29 at 14:37

Horizon schedules extra public meetings

By tbnewswatch.com
Thunder Bay TelevisionKeep informed with the Tb Television News hour Weekdays with Barry Third and Marjorie Dowhoshttp://www.tbtv.com

The company looking to install 18 wind turbines on the Nor'Wester mountain range has decided to host two additional public meetings next month, in order to gather input from residents in the Thunder Bay area.

Horizon Wind Inc. had originally scheduled just two meetings to be held Aug. 4 at the Blake Community Centre in Neebing and Aug. 5 at the Lakehead Labour Centre. But following concerns raised by some of the opponents of the project, the company has announced two more open houses near the end of the month.

Those meetings are scheduled to take place Aug. 23 at the Nor'Wester hotel and Aug. 24 at the Blake Community Centre.

Company officials say all comments received will be included in its consultation report that will be submitted to the Ministry of Environment for consideration with the company's final Renewable Energy Approval application.

TbNewsWatch.com

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Peng says:
thanks for the airtime sham


while we may be running out of gas,
what we need from you is more than sour gas

I have raised many real issues , and have not seen any real answers

this is only a good project for the developer and his band of behind the scenes investors-
This project is
a loser for thunder bay
a loser for thunder bay hydro
a loser for the people who will have to live beside the towers
a loser for the people of northwestern ontario
a loser for the people of Ontario
and questionable for the Mun of Neebing

Please - read the reports and let us know what you think of,
the noise studies (incomplete receptors, questionable assumptions on ground cover, wrong ground attenuation methods..)
the visual shadow licker analysis, with missing receptors, assumed houses 1 metre cubes...
decommisioning report incomplete
construction report incomplete
operations report incomplete
emergency plans saying to call RCMP, ???
no info for electrical line construction
the list goes on and on and on

The reports are cut and paste jobs, not even providing the minimum info as per MOE technical bulletins

2010-08-04 at 13:30
FernandoMartinez says:
To fedhead:

What? How are people from other wards not affected by this? The very opponents of the project pretty much claim these turbines will be clearly seen from space with unaided vision to the point that the flicker from the turbines will drive the Martians away from Earth and that therefore we'll never acquire warp speed technology through them.

So if the very opponents of the project claim these things are going to be so massive they can be clearly seen at least all over Thunder Bay, then doesn't this entire project affect the entirety of Thunder Bay and environs?
2010-08-03 at 23:27
collie says:
I say again all those OPPOSED to this should tear down their house and let nature reclaim the property they live on. Houses are an EYE sore to nature. ALL have their own opinion but shouldnt be a HYPOCRITE with your reasoning. Dont use nature as an excuse and you yourself living there is just as damaging to wildlife and plant life. ENUFF already !!!
2010-08-03 at 22:05
windphart says:
Yes Sam, perhaps it will be over for us, but just beginning for you. Have fun with your highter tax bills and hydro bills. I'm sure people like you will still be lingering here on the forums whining about the hikes.
I'm curious....do personal comments like these make you feel superior? If you notice here most of the comments from the supporters all have a personal tone to them instead of debating the topics using some well thought out ideas. Once again, you've come up a bit short. Thanks for coming out.
2010-08-03 at 13:06
fedhead says:
The project should be voted upon by people in the area alone as they are the ones affected by this project---
comments and critique from other wards in town is like asking Nipigon for its views on projects in Kakabeka
2010-08-02 at 01:19
sam says:
Hey Peng and Windphart, I will give you guys credit for not giving up, but you must know what you look like now is a gassed out fighter flailing away getting nothing but air, staggering around the ring. Soon you will be knocked out, and it will be over for you.
2010-08-01 at NOON
Peng says:
re the pawn says no one can complain about nondisclosure

This project has been a behind closed doors project from the beginning

How could the city lease up to half its property (17,000acres) for up to 45 years without an open and fair property disposal (as required by its own policies)

How could the city enter into multi million dollar deals with no one saying anything or taking credit for the deal?

how could there be no information sessions or real notice of the project by the city, hen they hold consultation for road widenings ?

how did this developer even find out about the underutilised property in the first place?

There are way too many questions about how and why this project was slid thru so quietly and undercover.

As councillor Rebecca Johnson said (and I paraphrase because the meeting videos are no longer posted on the web)



2010-07-31 at 14:16
FernandoMartinez says:
Peng, most of your questions were answered last Council meeting.
2010-07-31 at 14:13
Rick says:
One should be really questioning the initial contractual agreement that the city signed.

Why has this document not been released to the public.?

Maybe TBNewsWatch can access it and make it public, that would be the place to start, would it not.?
2010-07-31 at NOON
tdub says:
If I were Horizon I’d hold the meeting during the Labour Day Weekend. If people want to grandstand, complain, and needle the least they can do is stay in town. Being an Ecological/Community hell raiser does involve some sacrifice. Towers can be moved back but the real problem opponents seem to have is with every aspect of the turbines. Ask questions to engender fear and get a stonewalling answer – you can get that in writing.
2010-07-31 at NOON
hurricanejeck says:
WOW!!!

Pawn, you make some sense but the math needs work,75%??? not with the groups I've spoken to.

PENG, made the most sense and request!!!
PLEASE, PLEASE attend this venu and ask questions!!!
Ask questions both for and against!!!!
Then stand under one!!

This is like going into a dealership, without knowing what the salesman is selling.
Has anyone heard the manufactures name of the big spinner? Have they????

For the optimist, I heard about a bridge for sale, New York area, really cheap. Brookland I think....
2010-07-31 at 10:50
FernandoMartinez says:
Peng - most of your questions were answered during the last Council meeting, had you been watching.
2010-07-30 at 23:00
windphart says:
@thepawn, I posted this on another thread:
Let's get something clear. A majority of the citizens polled said they were in favour of a technology that provided clean energy and prosperity to the area. That was the question.
They weren't asked if they were in favour of Horizon's location, Horizon's shifty change of plans, or Horizon's financial plan to have the taxpayers foot the bill and have our hydro rates go up.

And Sam, thanks for the propaganda. You can do a better job trying to intimidate the opposers.

And Randa; why do they pander to the NIMBY's? It's called democracy. Look it up. Even NIMBY's have a right to be heard. Just curious....how much do you think it's cost taxpayers? Hmmm, council meets every week. They're paid by the meeting, not the hour. Dude, I think it's covered. You have no idea what this project is costing, do you? At least the NIMBY's have done the math. Most of (like Sam) listen to the light and fluffy flower power marketing pitches that make you believe that all our problems will be solved with turbines. That sad part is you're gullable enough to buy all that. I bet you got sucked in with the Slap Chop too.
2010-07-30 at 22:51
hurricanejeck says:
I invite everybody, EVERYBODY, to travel and talk to owners.
Stand under these swirling giants, and make a comment.
last week on Synergy, wind was posted @ 109 mW.
Thats the combined ONTARIO contribution...
BUT the PROPOSED TBay contribution wouldn't count anyway!!!
Please remember that Ontario Hydro line crews are committed to adding a third power line from Tiverton to Milton.

As always, where is the Thunder Bay wind farm power going to sold????
We have to pay to produce, what's the return???
2010-07-30 at 17:38
yer joking says:
Double congratulations Horizon! The public wanted more nd you're giving it to them. Unlike the NIMBYS who bring in "experts (with a small e) who echo what some want to be said and Charlatans who claim they were adversely affected by the wind farms but are'nt allowed to speak about it. Horizon is the type of Corporate Citizen that Thunder Bay wants as they seem to care about the citizens and the community. Now all we have to do is make sure Council recognizes the wishes of the majority of Taxpayers and VOTERS. Wake up those of you who refuse to aknowledge the wishes of the people.
2010-07-30 at 16:47
Peng says:
re tudor 'moving towers cant be done becasue wind less ( farther back)'

There is no real information to justify that wind is more or less, or better or worse, closer to the front of the norwesters.
Horizon chose to put up ONLY one test tower.

In fact, proximity to the escarpment face would suggest more mixing and turbulent flow- moving them back to the centre of the plateau does make sense from an educated point of view.

The reason they are close to the front is so that when additional towers are built, Horizon can fill up the area behind the now proposed towers without any questions.

If towers were built farther back now (at slightly more cost to horizon for roads and pole lines) then putting them in front later would be difficult- everyone would be fully aware of what they looked and sounded like. They would also want t opreserve whatever value ther may be in the existing trail system clsoe to Big Thunder Ski area. The cat would be out of the bag. People would say NO WAY.

These are 45 story strutures that emit 104 db. You cant be under them without hearing protection. The noise study (computer modeling based on simple flat area models) suggest noise at just under the limit at the closest homes (if you believe the models). They are visible clearly from 30,000 feet. They will have red strobe lights all over them. These structures are totally incompatible with existing surrounding land uses, and would not be allowed under existing zoning.

If these were in your 'backyard' you wouldnt want them.

If you had to pay to have them would you want them?
Well you will pay because the 120,000$ a year the city will get wont cover the electrical lines costs (in Thunder bay), the road upgrade costs and increased maintenance.
With property value reductions (at least in the multi year term) for local residents, who pays for that?
If local business such as the ski area, hotel, and restaurant suffer who pays for that?
Once the price of power rises in northwestern ontario and businesses cant afford the power and leave, who suffers?

This is a bad deal for local residents, business, the people of thunder bay, and northwestern ontario.

This is a great deal for a group of investors behind a series of incorporated and limited partnership companies.
2010-07-30 at 14:56
Peng says:
I encourage everyone - for and against to go out to the open houses.

Ask them some questions and get some answers - real details and committments - get it in writing

Try,
How big is the project ultimately?

Why is there a total application for 79.5 MW to the Ontario Power Authority?

Why cant the towers be moved back to satisfy noise, visual, and environmental concerns?

What are the permanent jobs specifically that will be in THunder Bay?

Who are the manufactureres refered to last year (that Horizon was reportedly in discussion to locate here)?

Will the public be able to access the area, or use the roads, or even cross the roads that horizon will build?

How will the existing trails ever be able to be used once access is restricted?

How wide are the roads, what slope and how will they get the long and heavy equipemnt up there?

who will pay for upgrades to Loch Lomond road?

Who will pay for the acquistion of the new road right of way (ROW) and road construction and road maintenance from Loch Lomond Road to the municipal Boundary?

who will pay for the new electrical lines along loch Lomond Raod, Hwy 61, Chippewas Road, and into Westfort?

Will new electrical lines ROW be required?

What will the new electrical lines look like?

Will Horizon provice a decommisioning BOnd?

Will Horizon provide a performance bond during construction, and operation?

What happens if the foundation installation impacts the rock stability or the groundwater?

The list could go on - just start with one question and try to get specific answers- write down the answer and ask Horizon to sign that that is what they said - once they get the approvals it is too late to go back .
2010-07-30 at 13:14
Peng says:
Finally -

But couldnt they have waited till people are here in town?
The Aug 4/5 are right after a long weekend, and the 23 /24 will see many away at camps and on vacation
Certainly after waiting till may 2010 (from Sept 2009) to release the draft REA reports Horizon could have waited another 2 weeks until after Labour Day.

It has only taken 3 years months for this company to hold an open house in the area it proposes to build
It has been 10 months since there has been significant and obvious concern about this project, with nothing but stonewalling and misinformation

Lets hope things will change and there will be some real information and straight answers

BUT - I am not holding my breath
Even the spin put on this new set of open houses is the same old same old
The real reason they are holding more open houses is because MOE is seriously concerned about what has gone on here. MOE has had conversations with them and recommended they have more real consultation

Does the statement about including the comments in the consultation report mean the comment period on the draft REA is extended also????




2010-07-30 at NOON
sam says:
One day in the future, citizens of Thunder Bay will feel blessed and fortunate to have the Norwester mountains in our backyard upon which we can have hundreds of wind turbines generating green energy for our community.
2010-07-30 at 11:44
TBDR says:
75% and falling... as people are educating themselves on the issue more and more are seeing this deal does nothing positive for us. All we get is a higher energy bill and the alienatition of an entire ward.
2010-07-30 at 10:11
tudor says:
as someone who has no problem with our landscape being "tarnished"???? by these windmills, in my view Horizon has gone over and above.

they have a signed contract. endorsed by the very people now putting up road block ( council members now worried about re-election ).

What is the risk finanically to this city by these delays.

and one more tiny request,

when will our media ask each individual council member on the record, leading up to the election, what is their position on this issue.

are you for it, or against it.

each of them should have their position recorded. this dance is why no one wants to invest here. A signed deal and now we want to back out.

as for why the windmills can't be moved back. BEcause it would cost more to run the transmission lines, the wind would be less, generating less money. that would be my uneducated but apparently logical conclusion.
2010-07-30 at 07:56
Nitesky says:
The view from even as far away as Hwy 590 (KB to Nolalu) will be spoiled by this venture. I wouldn't want my largest personal investment devalued by something like this either. Oh well, as long as it is someone else's back yard ...
2010-07-30 at 07:40
porkchop_sandwiches says:
Why don't we have a plebiscite in the next election? The question could read: "Do you want a wind farm in your neighbourhood?" and the most yeas would get it! yay! democracy wins!
2010-07-30 at MIDNIGHT
kdawg says:
If 75% of the City wants this to proceed then that doesn't mean 75% of the City are making the right decision. There can be no way to fiscally justify this project.
2010-07-29 at 21:01
lux says:
As someone who lives in the area, why can't they just move it back. Why does it have to be so close to homes and businesses?
2010-07-29 at 19:22
ranma says:
Why do we keep pandering to these NIMBY's? Seriously get this over with. by the time this is all said and done more money will have been spent on debating and listening to the NIMBY's then what the project will actually cost!
2010-07-29 at 6:00 PM
thepawn says:
Nobody can complain about non disclosure on this one. This has to be one of the most discussed initiatives in the history of TBAY. By now everyone has made up there mind and about 75% of the city wants this to go ahead.

2010-07-29 at 16:36
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