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2011-01-06 at 19:00

Cyclist sent to hospital after crash with car

By tbnewswatch.com
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A man was sent to hospital this afternoon following a collision between a car and a bicycle. 

The incident took place just before 5 p.m.  Police say a cyclist was crossing at John Street near Algoma Street when there was a collision with a car. 

The cyclist was put on a stretcher and taken to hospital. 

Police at the scene say he was conscious when being transported to Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre, but there's no word on whether the injuries were serious. 

Police are releasing little information about the incident and say the investigation is ongoing. 
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Comments

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The Wolf says:
With all the laws new and old to protect people from themselves,why have they not made it illegal to operate a bike in the winter? The roads and conditions are hard enough to navigate in the winter never mind having to keep an eye out for someone on an unstable bike.
1/6/2011 7:59:14 PM
nads74 says:
I disagree, about making it a law, honestly why do we need such a silly law when it's simple common sense!..ITS WINTER people...you can't afford a car or a bus or a cab, give yourself time to walk to your destination!...some people I swear!
1/7/2011 9:10:37 AM
ken1 says:
Bikes are legal vehicles. As long as they follow the rules of the road they can share the road.
Having said that bikers are better off on side streets and the few bike lanes that exist. Biking on the arterial routes is foolhardy and should be avoided even in the summer. We need a bike path between Port Arthur and Fort William.
1/7/2011 9:49:51 AM
yer joking says:
Wolf I totally agree with your thinking, but I think we should go one step further
1. Ban Stupid Posters You people know who you are
2. Ban intellectual Posters
3. Ban Winter make it totally illegal
4. Whining There is no place foe whining
5. Liberals Sorry I couldn't resist.
I would love to call ameeting of all those who post here at a local coffee shop in the Trailer Park I do believe it would be interesting - Stupid or Intellectual You Decide
1/7/2011 12:12:52 PM
Dudebro says:
The driver of the vehicle better not be charged unless he did something very wrong...there is NO reason for people to be riding bicycles in this kind of weather/environment.
As a matter of fact, it should be against the law to ride a bicycle on city streets during the winter time. If I knew how to push this forward and make a huge issue of it and try to get a bylaw passed I surely would.
Pro environment people this time don't have a leg to stand on because insisting on riding your green bicycles is putting the riders at risk and increasing the chances of accidents where they otherwise would likely not happen.
Is winter time people, PUT THE BICYCLES AWAY!

As a matter of fact, for the first time I think I am going to inquire as to how to get the process started of getting this banned in Thunder Bay.
I am sick and tired of having to dodge these people in the winter who still think its they're god given right to ride bicycles in the dead of winter!
1/6/2011 9:07:06 PM
Swirly-Q says:
Yes, please do get started on your bylaw to ban winter cycling. Also, winter jogging. And winter walking. These people are hazards to themselves and to all those around them. Or.... people could just learn to drive.
1/6/2011 10:01:12 PM
New Democrat says:
Winter conditions make it very difficult for a vehicle to stop as quickly as it would when it's not winter.

Just this morning, I was turning left from Memorial onto Dunlop and there was a cyclist about to cross Dunlop (riding on the sidewalk). He was still a bit away from the intersection and seeing as that's a busy intersection, I expected the cyclist to stop or at the very least slow down on approach to the intersection.

Not so. He didn't even look to see if any cars were coming. Didn't stop, didn't slow down. It was as if to him, there wasn't even an intersection there. By the time he was at the intersection, I was already almost completely onto Dunlop. He had to slow down -a little- to avoid crashing into the side of my car. He was going fast and JUST left the sidewalk when I was turning.

What did I get? The middle finger.

A) He was riding on the sidewalk, which is to begin with illegal.

B) He didn't look to see if any cars were turning left. Just looked straight ahead. Good thing I noticed him far back on the sidewalk because at least I was paying attention.

C) He didn't stop at the busy intersection or even slow down.

D) I had time to turn safely and I did, despite the bicycle technically having the right of way.

E) According to the Highway Traffic Act, a bike is supposed to be treated as a vehicle, meaning he was travelling in the wrong lane.

F) According to the HTA, you must also walk your bike at a crosswalk.

Now I know bicycles are supposed to be treated as vehicles, but they're also supposed to be on the road, not the sidewalk. And when you're riding on a bicycle, you have to realize that your 40 pound hunk of metal from Zellers does not match against a motor vehicle.

This is why it's absolutely stupid to be riding your bike in the winter. It's tough to see bikes sometimes. And when it's winter, you can't stop quite as easily as in summer. Nor can a bike. And when your 40 lbs of Zellers collides with a huge SUV, guess who is going to come out looking prettier?

Either make it legal and mandatory for bikes to operate on the sidewalk in the winter and take their right of way away or ban cycling in the winter altogether.

And your slippery slope argument is dumb because people don't walk on the roads. They are on sidewalks. Now I know Thunder Bay drivers can be bad, but normally, even they don't drive on sidewalks.
1/6/2011 11:33:28 PM
mapletreemarty says:
If it's difficult stopping in the winter perhaps drivers should slow down to give themselves enough time to react to situations while on the road?

Everyone wants cyclists not to bike in the winter, and for people to take more time to walk to work instead of bike. However, drivers don't drive to the weather conditions. It's winter, yet everyone is driving around as if it's the middle of July because it will make a difference if they get to their destination 45 seconds sooner than if they followed the rules and drove to the conditions.

Let's not be hypocrites here, let's rid ourselves of the mentality that just because a car is bigger than bike it means drivers are in the right and cyclists are in the wrong.
1/7/2011 11:39:16 AM
Swirly-Q says:
New Democrat,

I don't understand how you can reach your conclusion by using your example. In your example, the cyclist did just about everything wrong... riding on the sidewalk, inattentive, riding too fast for conditions, etc. Somehow you use this example to argue that bicycles should be banned or required to ride on the sidewalk in the winter.

This makes no sense. If the cyclist in your example had not been on the sidewalk and had properly observed the rules of the road, there would not have been an incident... he would have been much more visible to you and you would simply have slowed a little and turned in behind him. The entire issue arose precisely because he was on the sidewalk where he was less visible and less predictable.

Concerning your last paragraph, if you can't see that cars and pedestrians interact frequently at intersections, driveways and any street that doesn't have a sidewalk, then you probably wouldn't understand the point that I was making in my first post.
1/7/2011 11:51:28 AM
mapletreemarty says:
If it's difficult stopping in the winter perhaps drivers should slow down to give themselves enough time to react to situations while on the road?

Everyone wants cyclists not to bike in the winter, and for people to take more time to walk to work instead of bike. However, drivers don't drive to the weather conditions. It's winter, yet everyone is driving around as if it's the middle of July because it will make a difference if they get to their destination 45 seconds sooner than if they followed the rules and drove to the conditions.

Let's not be hypocrites here, let's rid ourselves of the mentality that just because a car is bigger than bike it means drivers are in the right and cyclists are in the wrong.
1/7/2011 12:16:02 PM
Ciniful says:
There is a MASSIVE difference between cycling in the winter and walking. Bicycles do not have the proper traction for winter weather. They are going to skid and swerve, and often in front of a car. An accident like this was only a matter of time, and more will happen, because people expect everyone else to move around them.
1/7/2011 10:15:38 AM
yer joking says:
I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO WALK EITHER!
1/7/2011 9:31:58 PM
tannharr says:
Swirly-Q, I can't help but assume you're being sarcastic. It's against the law to operate a motorcycle in the winter, it should be the same for bicycles. The cyclists can opt to ride the bus, walk, jog, and if we have a huge snow storm, snowmobile in the winter time.
1/6/2011 11:04:44 PM
Swirly-Q says:
Actually, I wasn't aware that motorcycling in the winter is against the law. I know Quebec has a winter tire law that makes motorcycling less likely (because of the lack of motorcycle winter tires) but I wasn't aware that Ontario had such a law. Can you point me to it?
1/7/2011 12:00:44 PM
baor says:
No he can't cause there is no such law.
1/12/2011 9:25:35 PM
New Democrat says:
Honestly, I think it's far more unsafe for bikes to be on the road.

Think about it. If a vehicle crashes into a bike, that's guaranteed to be a lot more serious and deadly than if a bike crashes into a pedestrian. Pedestrians may not be comfortable with cyclists zipping near them, but ultimately, bikes are far safer there. The road should be for actual vehicles, not your Schwinn.

At least make it mandatory for bikes to be on the sidewalk in the winter, due to less pedestrian traffic and poor road conditions.

Oh, and according to the Highway Traffic Act, bikes are to be treated as vehicles. Well, drivers are expected to know the rules of the road and need to be licensed to be on the road. By and large, drivers do know the rules, with some notable exceptions.

Cyclists don't know the rules.

I'm sorry, but driving in my vehicle, if I tried to run a red light before the advance left turn light comes on at an intersection, I'd get pulled over. Why do cyclists think they can get away with it all the time? Bikes are supposed to be treated as vehicles, so if you have a bike and also have a driver's license, you have no excuse. Same thing if I ran a stop light/sign. Or if I rode in the oncoming vehicle lane.

Cyclists should bike like vehicles if they are to be legally classified as vehicles.

If you're a cyclist and have never had a driver's license before, you shouldn't be on the road, period. If you have ever had one, then you should know the rules of the road with regards to bikes.

Nor do I mean to be callous about bringing up this subject when this poor individual has been injured. But accidents like these could be prevented if bikes - actually - followed the same laws as vehicles, like they are legally obligated to.

I'm not implying the cyclist was at fault in this case. I don't have any other information other than what was presented here. I'm not commenting on this specific case, but in general.
1/6/2011 11:56:41 PM
realist72 says:
As opposed to your "god given right" to drive? A Canadian drivers license is a privilege, regulated by laws, one of them being "care and control" of your vehicle at all times.

I don't believe that anywhere in the licensing act does it say that it entitles you to clean, clear, snow & ice free, cyclist free roads at any/all times of the year.

Yeah it slows you down a bit to give someone a clear safe berth, but is it really that big of deal?

1/7/2011 5:36:10 AM
skycase says:
I hope the man who was hit is okay. I live by this street and I can't tell you how many times my son and I have almost been hit by cars, just walking! When people are turning, most don't look for people just the other cars.
Most people that ride a bike in the winter it's because they have to. It's not like every person in town has a car!
1/7/2011 6:47:30 AM
bobhitchman says:
Thunder Bay is renown for being one of the most biker friendly communities in Canada.

We just added a biker's lane along Court Street. Our buses just had special Bike Racks installed on all its routes. We have an abundance of bike trails scattered all about our lovely city. We have a 5km trail around Bouvelard Lake. Lake Superior routes. The list goes on. We are the envy of most Canadian cities.

Some are suggesting that the City should outlaw bikes during our long winters here. This is incongruent with our friendly biker image.

It is also a violation of our human rights and highly discriminatory. Bikes are under the same laws as road vehicles. It is illegal to ride a bike on a sidewalk in Thunder Bay. Those advocating outlawing bikes therefore must also know that road vehicles would be outlawed as well.

The majority of Thunder Bay residents do not own cars. Our bus ridership is over 3 million now according to Mayor Hobbs during his most recent Wednesday Bus ride. Most can not afford a car with the high cost of insurance, gasoline and so on. Others, like me, put there car on blocks as there contribution to not polluting Thunder Bay. The bike is a viable alternative. I have not used my car in 10 years. It also forces you to exercise. We also have very reasonable monthly bus passes in our fair City.

Most Bike accidents are caused by the drivers of vehicles. They are not paying attention to our road rules and signs or on their cell phones , mp3 devices, navigation equipment or their portable DVD players.

The majority of bikers can not afford the high cost of cabs. It is a neccessity for them to take their bike to work or a combination of bus/bike with the new bus racks. If bikes were outlawed people would not be able to pay their bills or to live their normal life.

The only viable solution is for vehicle drivers to be more prudent when driving in icy winter road conditions. Jumping on the
"Lets Outlaw Bikes" Band Wagon is far too radical of an approach.

1/7/2011 8:05:46 AM
ken1 says:
Bikes are motor vehicles and have the right to city streets. A biker could end up being dead right though.

Once upon a time when I was young (25 yrs ago) I rode my mountain bike over the winter while attending Con College. I was able to go straight down Ford street from Victoria and avoid the traffic with no problems. There was no chance in h#$% I would go down Edward street and mix it up with traffic in January. Currently my summer biking makes use of the new (much appreciated) bike lanes and side streets. Winter bikers should make themselves very visible (lights AND reflectors)then restrict themselves to bike lanes and side streets with more room and less traffic.
A Bike lane from downtown Port Arthur to Fort William is needed. The Netherlands bike lanes and paths are plowed before the streets to encourage bikers.
Banning bikes is ridiculous and not sustainable with gas at $1.20 a litre.
Tbnewswatch.com

1/7/2011 8:38:46 AM
Dudebro says:
Well now, there would be no good reason to try to bylaw winter jogging/walking. After all, this is why there are sidewalks.
The increased risk of an accident riding a bike in the winter is the problem here. If a driver even makes a slight deviation in judgment while there is a biker near, the chances or disaster are much higher.
You're putting people in vehicles in a position where the risk is much higher of hitting someone.
Roads are much narrower, with room for vehicles only (not bicycles). Snowbanks block safe view, there is ice and you can't react as quick in winter. Those are all more than enough reasons to figure this out.
Think of a scenario where I slow down for a biker and attempt to move over. That biker starts to slide on ice and wipes out in front/beside me. I hit the brakes, slide sideways perhaps and run the cyclist over.
Now I almost get hung for maiming this person when they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Think that's worth the risk from a driver perspective??
1/7/2011 10:36:35 AM
drummerbob says:
So this year we have 1 accident with a cyclist. Question: how many automobile accidents have there been? 30? 40? Get some perspective.

Wolf and Dude, FYI: winter cycling is not difficult at all. It takes more caution at corners and stops, but 90% of the time, it's no different than riding in the summer, except that you dress warmer. I've been riding for 12 years with only 1 incident. And all the other winter cyclists I know ride without problems.

My suggestion: Get educated before suggesting the removal of civil liberties.
1/7/2011 10:36:39 AM
The Wolf says:
Are you serious here Bob?

Bike riding in the winter and in snow is extremely difficult compared to summer riding, if you do not think this then you should change your name to dumberbob.

If I or anyone has to seriously sit down and given reasons and explain why bike riding int he winter is more dangerous then maybe the people we try to explain it to should of worn the helmets when they were younger.

Something that hasn't been pointed out by anyone and a danger for the bikes on our roads in the winter is most roads become narrower due to snow banks thus putting bikes closer to the moving vehicles.

For proof how unstable bikes are on the streets watch for their tracks. They are not straight and clean, they are wavy and all over the place.

1/7/2011 1:57:10 PM
mapletreemarty says:
"For proof how unstable bikes are on the streets watch for their tracks. They are not straight and clean, they are wavy and all over the place."

Great detective work Mr. Holmes. Maybe if you paid more attention to where you were going as opposed to looking for bicycle tracks you would be a better driver and would avoid these types of incidents.

The problem is that the general public doesn't take driving as serious task that requires their full concentration. Drivers are constantly distracted, whether it's smoking, eating, have hot coffee, talking on cell phones. You should take as much care in driving as you do in doing any other task that can cause serious injury. You're not going to be operating a powersaw while you talk on your phone and drink your coffee now are you??? You'd probably lose a finger or a hand, but while operating a vehicle you could do far worse damage.
1/7/2011 4:28:41 PM
Dudebro says:
The Wolf, I'm sure nobody would touch that one with a 10ft pole because the pro environment people would absolutely freak out and cry bloody murder that they're rights were being denied.
1/7/2011 10:39:18 AM
Nitesky says:
There is much more to cycling on ice and snow than meets the eye. When on only snow the the thin tires cut through it to solid ground. When on only ice there is little to no traction for moving, steering and braking AND keeping your balance. When doing an emergency maneuver on ice there is a great chance of loosing your balance and THEN winding up under the wheels of a car.
4-wheeled vehicles don't have the balance problem that winter brings with it.
1/7/2011 10:39:22 AM
holymoly says:
Remember those old training wheels we used to have when we were kids...? How about bringing them back and making them mandatory for winter biking? We can call them "snow wheels".
1/7/2011 11:49:06 AM
Dudebro says:
realist72, but its not our god given right to drive. Its even documented in the licensing material at the DMV.
I think alot of this just comes down to common sense. Stay on the areas where the city has put time and effort into creating bike trails etc. If they happen to not suit where you need to go, then it should probably be decided to find an alternate way to go. It is winter, and you can't expect it to be very safe to ride a bike on the winter streets.
Its always been a generalization that bikes get put away in the winter. There is a good reason why this has come to be.
Obviously the problem is not going to go away, but it would be interesting to hear the injured cyclist's feelings of winter riding now once he recovers though.
1/7/2011 11:56:26 AM
baor says:
tannharr: It is not illegal to operate a motorcycle in the winter. Dumb but not illegal.
1/7/2011 12:44:22 PM
Tannoy says:
People dont use paddle boats in the winter even though they have the right to. Paddle boats are better for the environment and Thunder Bay is known world wide as a paddle boat friendly community.

Common sence has to kick in somewhere people. To the hippies: Nobody's trying to take your bikes away, but seriously when does common sence kick in and say "Hey, Granola... something bad might happen if i ride my bike in 6 inches of snow next to cars driving in the same conditions"

Take the bus, hug a tree when they have leaves on them.
1/7/2011 1:35:31 PM
Swirly-Q says:
Speaking for myslef, I am neither a hippie nor a granola. If it makes you feel better to demean all those who disagree with you, please feel free, but understand that the use of name-calling and hyperbole only makes your rantings easier to dismiss.
1/7/2011 2:39:32 PM
Tannoy says:
No, seriously, for personal safety you shouldnt ride a bike when the conditions are poor. But the second someone says that you get all these people coming out saying "Thats our right, and blah blah blah environment this and exercise that." Well dont be shocked when you get into an accident, and it wont be the fender bender type like the 40 or so car accidents this year, its going to be big like the tradgedy that this story is talking about.

The bike lanes themselves are even seasonal to my understanding. Take a hint from that.
1/7/2011 3:03:33 PM
BooToThunderNecks says:
The comments on here are just too funny and just blame the cyclist for biking in winter. Was it SNOWING and blowing yesterday? Were the conditions really that bad? NO. Cold yes, white out and dangerous conditions? Not at all.

How many people drive cars while drunk and speed in slippery winter conditions? How many insist on driving while talking or texting on their phones, changing settings on their radios/MP3 players, put on their makeup, try to eat a full course meal. Drive while their girlfriend is giving them a HJ or BJ?

How many DUMB ARSE drivers turn, without even looking at all, at the pedestrians who are attempting to cross the street on the right of way? How many run red lights, make illegal U turns and otherwise drive like stupid hicks?

How many of Thunder Bay's sidewalks which driving people suggest other people use, just END completely or switch which side of the road they are on multiple times? How many BUSY roads have no sidewalks at all?

How many stupid strip malls just assume that all us fatties will just drive from one store to the next store 5 feet away? All of these stupid planning decisions basically force those who NEED to bike or walk to get from point A to B out onto the road.

I live near SHUNIAH street. And on Margaret street I have a sidewalk for a bit from Shuniah to Balsam. But heading towards that big hill, the sidewalk changes for no reason at all from one side of the road to the other.

Then past Balsam (despite their being schools and a recreation field with a winter hockey rink there now) there is NO sidewalks at all beyond that point until the road changes names.

So for me to go what is only about an 8 minute walk to Grandview mall, I am FORCED to dodge cars and walk on the shoulder of the road because this city is too retarded to think that anyone would EVER want to just walk to the store to pick up a loaf of bread?

Biking in winter if done appropriately does not have to be all that dangerous. MOST sane winter bike riders will have metal studs on their tires, which act in exactly the same way that SNOW/WINTER tires work on a motorized vehicle.

Most will also dress appropriately for the weather and should also be illuminated appropriately.

In many countries winter cycling, and espeically WALKING can and should be a safe and appropriate winter activity both on recreational trails and on the road.

Any yet we all wonder why we are a nation of fat asses when we insist (even when gas is 1.22 a litre!) on driving 2 feet and sitting in a drive-through for 25 minutes to get our McPuke meals.
1/8/2011 10:12:25 AM
New Democrat says:
So let me get this straight. Your argument is drivers are extremely dangerous on the roads, especially in the winter...ergo, bikes should be on the same roads as tens of thousands of these extremely dangerous vehicles, especially when weather conditions outside are poor?

Wow, makes perfect sense.
1/8/2011 10:41:04 PM
sadiegirl says:
Wow....now this is funny.

Just let people do what they want to do. If they want to bike in the winter, I'm pretty sure they're aware of the risks and consequences.

Also, there is no way it would become illegal to ride your bike in the winter, because winter is only a season. Just because it is winter, does not necessarily mean the conditions will be terrible (and before anyone comments, yes, I've lived in Thunder Bay my whole life, I know how crappy our winters get, but lets not rule it out).

Not only that, but you could make the same argument for when it is raining during the summer (ie. slippery and low visibility).

Drivers, don't be all high and mighty. There are a whole lot of people in our city who suck at driving. Maybe it was the drivers fault? Until we know more, I wouldn't look to far into this.
1/8/2011 8:12:07 PM
Kidknapp says:
The bike has as much right on the road as a vehicle! As a kid, I pedaled my bicycle 365 days a year! Now that I am no longer a kid (LONG GONE!) I drive most places. I am always on the lookout for cyclists and motorcycles no matter what time of year! You over anxious and impatient drivers need to take a few deep breaths and realize that the world DOES NOT revolve around YOU! Maybe the guy on the bike can't afford a car or the gas and insurance to operate one!
1/9/2011 1:45:43 PM
littleone87 says:
Some of these comments just make me want to be sick. Alot of people ride a bike 365 days a year. It is understandable why these people choose to do so as well, no job, little or no money to afford a vehicle, gas, insurance et. Bus fare has been increased and for someone to take the bus to and from work, school, home, shopping the costs add up. Also, its a form of exercise! Drivers need to be aware of cyclists and pedestrians. I believe more cycling lanes should be put around the city and cyclists in winter months should be allowed to bike on sidewalk, a pedestrian has plenty of time to get out of the way and the cyclist will havetime to either get off the bike and walk it or move over. People need to realize the more we complain about petty little things the less freedom we will have.
1/10/2011 1:29:17 PM
eddylives says:
Make studded tires for winter biking mandatory.(they are available)
Make the riders follow the rules of the road.
Lay charges against those that do not follow the rules of the road.(many riders are their own worst enemy)

Sound a little too simple??

1/10/2011 6:24:06 PM
miloh says:
It's interesting that all of you winter cyclists are so willing to put your lives in danger knowing how bad the driver's in our city can be. I know everyone on both sides of this argument like to blame each other but come on guys!

It's extremely dangerous for anyone to walk down Waterloo/Balmoral in the winter time so I choose to take the bus instead. When will the cyclists just take responsibility for their own lives! You blame the drivers who are also driving in winter conditions and yet you choose to bike down very busy streets in the wintertime.
It's hard enough as it is to drive around you when you take up more than half of the lane in the summer time. Add to that snow banks and there really is no room for you on some streets. A little common sense and planning on both sides of this issue would go a long way in this city.
1/11/2011 7:03:40 PM
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