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City administration is projecting a 1.88 per cent tax increase from the 2010 budget. Is this increase reasonable?



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2009-09-23 at 6:00 PM

Tobacco tax rewind

By tbnewswatch staff
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A local anti-smoking group is urging the McGuinty government to reject a private member’s bill that calls for a reduction in tobacco taxes.

A Progressive Conservative MPP is proposing legislation that would cut taxes by nearly a third in an effort to combat contraband tobacco. The bill is being debated at Queen's Park Thursday.

Chair of Tobacco Free Thunder Bay, Jim Morris, said the province should instead boost surveillance for illegal cigarettes, and introduce a provincial anti-contraband strategy. The bill would see the price of legal cigarettes reduced in order to compete with the contraband products.

But Morris said the illegal smokes are still going to be cheaper. He said their biggest concern is more people would pick up the habit.

"The biggest concern over reducing the prices of cigarettes is that if cigarettes are cheaper, than more people use them or that people who use them smoke more," he said. "There’s a direct relationship between the price of cigarettes and the amount people use them."

Morris added that research shows when cigarette prices are increased by about 10-percent, about three-to-four per cent of smokers end up quitting.
TbNewsWatch.com

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Comments
unionbay880 says:
Smoking is disgusting. People call it their right to polute the air and flick their butts all over the place. YOU DIRTY SMOKERS!!!
2009-09-29 at 9:00 AM

bigdog says:
Follow the Money.
This silly idea was proposed by a Conservative MPP Toby Barrett from tobacco country near Lake Erie. He is protecting his fellow farmers of which he is one. 90% of Canada's tobacco supply comes from that region of Ontario. Tobacco has been scientifically altered to be more addictive (See the movie "The Insider") Statistaicly 80% of all smokers wish they could quit.
Increased taxes and education have reduced consumption and will save thousands of lives in the years ahead as well as reducing the health costs associated with the use of this legal drug.
Speaking of POT. A recent study by BC Business Magazine estimated that the Mary Jane industry employs 250,000 people in British Columbia and contributes $ 7.5 Billion annually to the province's GDP. This makes it BC's second biggest economic engine. All of it tax free.

Big Dog
2009-09-28 at 08:29

Dude says:
What the hell, you might as well legalize POT! Imagine how much taxes they would make!

2009-09-25 at 19:29

crackerjack says:
advocate.
it's simple man if people can afford it they will simply buy there smokes at the corner store. the more difficult you make it for them to afford it the more likely they will find a more affordable source of cigarettes.
with more people buying from stores the smugglers have less clientele. nobody is going to go out of their way to buy cigarettes that are only marginally cheaper.
Again....taxes created the smugglers and counterfeiters.

2009-09-25 at 13:09

advocate says:
Crackerjack, do you think that lowering them 1/3 will really discourage smugglers? I highly doubt it. The smugglers will be there as long as the Canadian cigarettes are more expensive than the American ones. So as long as there is a tax, it is there. Remove the tax, remove the benefit.
2009-09-25 at 11:55

tbaycat says:
advocate....good point....clearly shows how smokers should no longer be seen as the scourge of the universe......the taxes we pay on our cigarettes should now finally be recognized as helping prop up our health care system as opposed to us being the sole drain on it!
2009-09-25 at 01:45

crackerjack says:
well advocate the point is that when you decrease cigarette taxes you will actually gain in revenue not loose it.
with increased tax you gain smugglers and you make it easy for people to buy unregulated untaxed cigarettes thus you get less taxes and have to spend more in law enforcement to try and catch the smugglers and cigarette counterfeiters.
Simply put if you are hoping to pay for heath care with a voluntary tax you are in for a loss because nobody wants to pay tax and so nobody will volunteer to pay this tax (if they can)
2009-09-24 at 21:12

advocate says:
So how do the Tories plan to pay for their tax decrease? By increase our income taxes? I would rather have cigarette taxes pay for our health care than income taxes.
2009-09-24 at 17:42

crackerjack says:
Well the anti smoking groups are to blame for the creation of contraband cigarettes to begin with. Had they used their funds for education rather than sit on their butts and let the increased taxes on consumer groups do their heavy lifting for them you would not have this problem. As long as you increase voluntary taxes people will volunteer not to pay the taxes. decreasing the tax will help because less smokers will be buying contraband cigarettes and so more taxes will be collected in the end. In the end ...wouldn't you rather have smokers smoke regulated cigarettes rather than contraband cigarettes? After all who knows what is in those contraband cigarettes? It could lead to an even greater health expense down the road.
Anti Smoking go back to work by educating people of the hazards of smoking and stop pushing for increased taxes. You are doing more harm than good.
2009-09-24 at 13:49

tbaygal says:
I wish Parliament would consider cutting gas taxes by one third....
2009-09-24 at 13:27

bob_kemp says:
Hi --

I see a lot of assumptions going on in these discussions of punitive tobacco taxation.

I see the assumption that tobacco users want to quit. I see the assumption that it is OK for government to decide what's good and bad for us and punish us if we refuse to comply. It is assumed that tobacco use is invariably bad, altogether, and that there are no positive benefits. I see that it is assumed that we must purchase tobacco. It is assumed that tobacco use costs others and injures others than the user.

It is a fact that nicotine causes the brain to emit dopamine which has an anti-anxiety effect. Yes, using tobacco is indeed calming. How many anti-anxiety drugs will the government have to pay for to replace the tobacco effects?

Why would tobacco users turn to the black markets when they can grow their own tobacco at home? I grow my own tobacco and I refuse to pay the punishment taxes and you can too!

If you want to buy seeds, I have some for sale. Protest the government punishment in a positive fashion and grow your own tobacco at home!

Bob Kemp
GYOtobacco@yahoo.com
2009-09-24 at 13:11

Jaded says:
They did this back in, what was it, 1992? Cigarettes went down to $3 a pack, then slowly started rising again. Smoking is an addiction. Those addicted are going to buy cigarettes whether they're $3 a pack or $10. It's not a simple matter of saying, "Oh look, taxes went up $1 per pack. I'm cured!" Personally, I'll keep buying the $4 per pack reserve cigarettes.
2009-09-24 at NOON

crackerjack says:
Well the anti smoking groups are to blame for the creation of contraband cigarettes to begin with. Had they used their funds for education rather than sit on their butts and let the increased taxes on consumer groups do their heavy lifting for them you would not have this problem. As long as you increase voluntary taxes people will volunteer not to pay the taxes. decreasing the tax will help because less smokers will be buying contraband cigarettes and so more taxes will be collected in the end. In the end ...wouldn't you rather have smokers smoke regulated cigarettes rather than contraband cigarettes? After all who knows what is in those contraband cigarettes? It could lead to an even greater health expense down the road.
Anti Smoking go back to work by educating people of the hazards of smoking and stop pushing for increased taxes. You are doing more harm than good.
2009-09-24 at 11:37

one_question says:
I was going to brush over this story until I read the deck. I am happy to say it drew me in.
2009-09-24 at 10:50

Toodleoo Caribou says:
It's called ARBITRAGE. Whenever a Govt implements a tax or other restrictive policy to create a false market / upset the level-playing field, human nature is such that individuals will always chip away at it for a profit until such time as a normal playing field is restored. Normally arbitrageurs are celebrated as the true champions of efficient markets... but in this case it's the government who are losing tax dollars, so they are labelled 'smugglers' and their product is suddenly 'contraband'. I say "SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BOOTLEGGER! FAIR PRICES FOR ALL!" Oh, hello officer...
2009-09-24 at 9:00 AM

mk122 says:
smokes.. let's go..
2009-09-24 at 06:55

Axle says:
Here's one! legalize pot and tax the living s--t out of it. It's non addictive and doesn't cause cancer. Outlaw tobacco, so that we can take the pressure of the health care system. And save million of dollars and thousands of lives. It's a win win. You get your tax dollars and you save millions in health care costs.
2009-09-23 at 19:06

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