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2013-03-22 at 14:15

Low fees, more golf?

By Leith Dunick, tbnewswatch.com
Brake Repairs! Front Ends! Mufflers! Shocks!Not just mufflers - MINUTE MUFFLER, 677 Memorial Avenue. Open Monday-Saturday. Email: tminutemuffler@shaw.caClick here for details.

Addition by subtraction is the way to save Municipal Golf Course, says longtime member Tony Stokaluk.

The well-known local golfer is convinced lowering fees at the city-owned golf course will bring more people back to the sport and generate the rounds necessary to lower the cost to taxpayers.

“That’s the only thing that’s going to make people come back, as far as I’m concerned,” said Stokaluk, a member of the city’s golf course committee, charged with making suggestions to increase revenue or cut cost to improve the courses’ bottom line.

The group, formed last year after council gave Municipal a one-year reprieve, having voted to close the 89-year-old Oliver Paipoonge facility, has taken a long, hard look at green fees and memberships, as well as overall costs.

A 2012 core business review report suggested the city could save taxpayers $100,000 a year or more by closing and selling Municipal.

According to a tentative fee scheduled released by Golf Thunder Bay, a 2013 triple adult membership valid at Municipal, Strathcona and Chapples golf courses, will cost $1,520.

The blended option, which includes an upfront payment and a set green-fee per round, is $704.

Eighteen-hole green fees at Municipal are set at $36, taxes included, for 2013, six dollars a round less expensive than the city’s other two courses. A nine-hole, 10-round punch card at Municipal is scheduled to cost $270, a savings of about $9 a round.

There's also an older adult option valid only at Municipal costs $990.

Owners of Northern Lights and Centennial golf courses are advertising an all-inclusive, $800 rate to play at the two privately owned courses this summer.

Dropping green fees at Municipal to $13 a round for nine holes and $20 for 18, as suggested by committee members, means the city would need to find an additional 4,276 green-fee rounds a year.

That’s about six full foursomes or 24 rounds a day, over a six-month season.

Over the past three seasons Municipal has averaged 7,379 green-fee rounds, the numbers rebounding slightly in 2012.

The city would also need to sell an extra 46 10-round punch cards.

Coun. Mar Bentz, a member of the committee, is concerned the lower prices would come at a significant cost to the private sector. He also doubts Municipal would be able to attract the number of golfers needed to make it work.

Mayor Keith Hobbs is reserving judgment on the fare structure proposed by committee members, who he said are committed to finding a way to keep Municipal open.

“Discussions have been lively and this is a very passionate issue for some members of the committee,” he said, reached via email Friday by Thunder Bay Television.

The matter is expected to return to the committee on April 10.

Fee changes aren’t the entire solution, Stokaluk said.

Cutting back on course maintenance is another way to bring the course closer to the break-even point.

“We’re trying to discuss whether we need as many people there as we have. It’s unfortunate, but (Municipal) is not in the greatest shape in the summertime because of a lack of water. We’re just trying to cut costs to keep Municipal viable to the public,” Stokaluk said Thursday.

City courses are staffed by union employees, and paid significantly more than workers at private operations, which Bentz said puts the city courses in an automatic hole off the blocks.

 

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Comments

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joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
3/22/2013 3:17:09 PM
Me n My Opinion says:
Close all 3 courses. Lowering rates like that at Muni will only hurt the privately owned courses. The city has no business being in a business that offers nothing that the private sector already offers.

Close/sell the three courses. Sell Muni and Strath. Muni wold cease golf operations, and Strath would likely be bought and operated as a golf course. Close Chapples and use the land for some other recreationl activity that doesn't compete head to head with the private sector.

If the city can't fully rid itself of golf, it'll never be able to make any service change. Getting rid of golf seems like such an easy decision. It addresses their core services concern, it would reduce the number of golf holes in the city, thereby making the existing private sector courses more viable, it gets a bit of cash from the sales, and it provides an opportunity for the use of some primo property to be used for a different use.

Golf seems like such an easy starting point.
3/22/2013 3:29:33 PM
CarlSpackler says:
Umm, except most of the private courses all entered the marketplace knowing the city operated three golf courses. That's their stupidity.

Closing Muni saves about $100,000 a year. Peanuts. Want to save big bucks? Ditch the Canada Games Complex. There are plenty of gyms and plenty of pools in Thunder Bay. Move the disabled lift to Lakehead's pool.

Bam, just saved the city a quick $1 million a year. Or more.

Next, let's shut down most of the city's arenas, and all of the outdoor rinks. Why should I subsidize your kids' hockey? Or let's jack the rates up to actually cover the cost. Parents won't mind forking out triple as much as they already do to cover ice costs for hockey and figure skating, will they?

I never use Vicker's Park. Let's parcel it off to developers, sell the land, and collect taxes. There's playground equipment in every school yard. Why should municipal taxpayers fund play time for your kids?

And really, who needs a Conservatory these days?
3/22/2013 4:23:52 PM
Bigtime says:
I am shocked and bewildered that your comment was not taken down due to idiocy. Close the Canada Games Complex he says...wow. I suppose your not a regular gym user or swimteam member or someone who regularly uses it. Close Vickers park because YOU don't use it? Shutdown all the arenas in a town that breeds hockey players, NHL stars, and good family fun and exercise on a regular? I hope for your sake, that there was a great deal of sarcasm, otherwise I am really sorry to see that the educational system has failed you so very very miserably.
3/22/2013 4:39:32 PM
guy11 says:
wow they should take YOUR comment down. It's called sarcasm!
Re: M n my opinion. So if i open my own hockey rink we can just shut down the city owned rinks so I have no competition? sounds good.

The only solution to this golf course problem is to lower rates on strath and chaps and sell muni. Strath and chaps are great that they are 18hole courses and located in the city. However, rates are way too high for what your getting. I prefer to drive to Lutsen and play an exciting course for a few dollars more plus gas money. I would play chap/strath regularly if they were around 30$ for 18.
3/22/2013 8:48:46 PM
brooky says:
You obviously can't read between the lines. Move on to the next topic please. This one's over your head.
3/22/2013 11:53:30 PM
CarlSpackler says:
Really? I was being sarcastic.

I do use a gym regularly though, a privately owned one that is competing with the city-owned Complex -- that loses $1 million+ a year that taxpayers are subsidizing.

What's the difference between that much costlier subsidy, and the $100,000 a year taxpayers pay to keep Municipal open? Can swim teams not train at Lakehead and perhaps make it more efficient?

Since when did it become the city's responsibility to produce NHL stars? Fort William Gardens loses half a million a year. The other rinks are all serious money losers, hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain.

Why not shut down three or four of the biggest money losers,make the remainder more efficient, and charge rates that actually help them break even? Why, because we're a diverse community, with diverse interests and diverse needs.

I want my tax dollars to keep these courses open. I also don't mind the cost to keep the rinks open and our parks. The Games Complex I could do without.
3/23/2013 2:03:18 AM
Bigtime says:
Soooo, you say your being sarcastic, and apparently I am supposed to read between the lines (hence my comment I hope your being sarcastic) and then you continue to back up your suggestions with "raw" facts? Maybe you could do without the complex, but there are others who enjoy its use. Welcome to a democracy my friend.
3/23/2013 11:26:06 AM
random says:
In regards to your other comment....the city can't close vickers park because technically, they don't own it. It was granted to the city to use as a park with the four white corner boulders to remain in place signifying the original property border.
Why would you want to close off something as nice as Vickers Park? The only shame to that park is the city not maintaining the original "spoke/wheel" layout of the trees as seen from above.
3/23/2013 12:31:07 PM
passlake says:
I'm not quite sure if you're serious or not. If you are, let me point out a few things:

Complex runs on cost-recovery basis. At least it did in the early 2000's when I worked there. Basically self sufficient. And I'll just point out, if we "move the disabled lift" to LU, it's still at a taxpayer funded pool.

Vickers Park has to remain a park, or it is turned back over to the family (something along those lines) That's why the white rocks are on the corners of the park.

By the logic you're presenting, nothing should be publicly funded. And I hope you're joking when you say this all (even a little bit). If not, can I ask, should you include roads and healthcare too?
3/22/2013 5:51:58 PM
Wabagoon says:
Close the Course!! it a WASTE!!
3/22/2013 3:35:35 PM
tbay99 says:
"He also doubts Municipal would be able to attract the number of golfers needed to make it work."

Hit the nail on the head there Mr.Bentz!
3/22/2013 3:48:28 PM
Molly says:
How about an improvement in customer service as a cure for the lack of golfer s.
I feel there is nothing at the club house except a person to collect my green fees
3/22/2013 4:30:51 PM
Tbay99 says:
Yup, just what the city needs, more overpaid lazy staff!
3/23/2013 12:22:41 AM
Blackheart says:
I am sorry you do not us Vicker's Park . But the city can never sell the land. Learn your city history Carl!
3/22/2013 5:06:19 PM
tsb says:
The city operated golf courses because until recently, there were no low-cost public golf courses. You had to be a member of an exclusive club to golf at a private course.

Today, there are many private golf courses that are accessible to the average citizen. It's a very different market than when the city originally went into the golfing business.

There is no longer a need for the city to offer subsidized golf when the private sector is providing the same thing. If the courses are losing money, they should be closed. That only means that if they were private, their current model would result in their closure anyway.

Or let's make a deal, perhaps... if the middle class white guys who play golf want their tax dollars to subsidize golf, then I want my tax dollars (which are commercial/mixed use rate and therefore 2.5 times higher than yours) to subsidize a decent public transit system and a multiplex. :)
3/22/2013 5:32:40 PM
tbayer1 says:
Bigtime, Carlspackler's opinion is not idiotic. He was following the thought process of me n my opinion who said that the city should not run any business that competes with the private sector. The Canada Games Complex is run by the city and competes with a number of gyms in town. By me n my opinion's logic it should be shut down. In order to have a healthy and vibrant community, the city needs to offer a variety of services for its residents at an affordable price. Not everyone golfs, or plays hockey, or visits Vickers Park. Not every resident is going to use every single service, but these services are needed to provide a variety recreation and leisure options to its residents. I am a young person starting his career in the recreation field in Thunder Bay. I have lived my whole life here and want to stay but need to have options and choices not cutbacks and closures and I know a lot of young people who feel the same. Good luck to the golf committee, you have my support
3/22/2013 7:53:49 PM
Gord says:
It is interesting how the City populated this board with people with no direct experience in running a golf course.
3/22/2013 9:29:03 PM
advocate says:
But see the city courses force competition by being twice the price.

Vote in Foulds and the NDP. Golf courses for everyone.
3/22/2013 9:42:06 PM
leafsfanatic says:
I know I would golf more at Muni if it was cheaper. It's at least $7 more per 9 hole round than the private courses, and it's not as nice. If it was on par (pardon the pun) with the private courses, I'd consider it as it's a nice relaxed atmosphere that is great for beginners.
3/23/2013 12:04:22 AM
tsb says:
If the private sector can operate it for less cost, then sell it!!
3/23/2013 10:12:29 AM
unheard says:
pretty sure the city can not sell vickers park
if they even change it it reverts back to the family that donated it to the city
3/23/2013 1:19:49 PM
hoey says:
Lets face it, Golf is a dying pastime and should be replaced with a moneymaker
3/23/2013 5:09:59 PM
REG says:
I am sick and tired of hearing this every year. The city should either grow some onions and sell the courses and other money losing operations or shut up! You want to make the courses operational lower the rates you raise them every year and it still isn't working.Try it you may be surprised and to bad for the other courses they don't care what the city does if the one was losing money why did they buy centennial.
3/23/2013 6:54:29 PM
joey joe joe jr. shabadoo says:
...cut chapples into a 9 hole course & put the new arean on & or the other 9 holes, making the parking situation go away while still having a great centrally located park with an arena, tennis courts & a 9 hole course. Call it VICKERS & or CHAPPLES AREANA & be done with figuring out a location near the marina to deal with parking issues & lack of space.
3/24/2013 3:09:35 PM
working_man says:
Why are we continually bailing out a golf course (in this case) that isn't even within the city limits?
3/25/2013 9:18:18 AM
HailStorm says:
LOL @ all the golf nerds arguing with each other
3/25/2013 4:36:16 PM
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